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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 8/1/2009 8:09:28 PM
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truthrevealed
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God is more than capable of providing for the poor in addition to giving His childen things that they want/desire. I agree that sometimes decisions are made by humans who place a God stamp on their actions when in fact God may have nothing to do with it at all. Likewise, God moves mightily thru people and humans fail to see that it's God because what's being done goes against their grain of thinking or they just personally have a problem with what God has done----not even realizing that it is indeed Him!
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 8/1/2009 8:14:58 PM
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truthrevealed
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quote:
I know everything is given by God, however there is the part that is played out by human hands, called choice. God doesn't interfere in our choices.
Just reading this! Because every good thing is given by God our part as humans is to choose to be obedient when God tells us to give........to the poor as the bible outlines and to my boss if God convicts my heart to treat them to a dinner and movie....or whatever 
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I'll tell the world....where--ever I go. That I, have found, a Savior....and He's sweet I know!!!
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 8/1/2009 8:26:02 PM
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DeliveredDarling
Posts: 1781
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The problem I have with this kind of thinking is that we only associate "good" things with God.
Consequences come from the devil! Not that God allows us to suffer for the choices we make, so it only seems to me that God wouldn't interfere with gifting either!
If it were a RollsRoyce would you feel any different?
I wouldn't and I'd be willing to bet--there would be absolute outrage against it!
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 8/1/2009 8:46:52 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 3045
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
If it were a RollsRoyce would you feel any different?
I wouldn't and I'd be willing to bet--there would be absolute outrage against it!
Well... a Rolls costs about 18-25 times more than that boat.
If anybody's curious as to what kind of boat $15K will get you, click here.
-Dan.
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Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 8/1/2009 8:52:35 PM
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DeliveredDarling
Posts: 1781
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The 17' 2009 Fish Finder is the closest thing I saw resembling the boat. It is much bigger than the ones listed and it is NOT a fishing Boat (you can fish from it, but it's nothing like a fancy john boat) nor is it a ski boat. You probably can ski behind it...I'm not a boat expert. It looks like a smaller luxury, relaxing boat... Don't know what you call those....
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 8/1/2009 10:34:38 PM
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zoebob
Posts: 7961
Joined: 4/13/2005
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I think maybe part of DD's concern is that the same people who shelled up $15K for this boat could not come up with money for missionaries, charity drives, etc.
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 8/1/2009 10:39:59 PM
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DeliveredDarling
Posts: 1781
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quote:
I think maybe part of DD's concern is that the same people who shelled up $15K for this boat could not come up with money for missionaries, charity drives, etc.
I hadn't thought it about consciously in those terms.....but now that you say that, I guess that is a problem for me.
Maybe it is more about priorities??????
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 8/2/2009 10:33:09 AM
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sharonjef2007
Posts: 2302
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quote:
Maybe it is more about priorities??????
Priorities and Stewardship!!!!! You hit it right there! My husband and I were having a conversation about this thread the other day, I wanted his opinion on it. And really, came to the conclusion that I would NOT be a member of a church who chose giving a $15K boat to the MM over fulfilling the needs of the community. That is what happened here. The leadership showed where it's priorites lay by NOT fulfilling it's goals for ministry and yet funding a very much luxery gift to the MM.
In my opinion, it was a very poor choice. And, If it were me, I'd be finding another church who had it's priorities in order.
How many wells could $15K dig in Africa? I think they are like $5K a pop. That is a lot of people who could have been helped and ministered to. I wonder if the boat has that kind of far reaching effects?
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my blog......Picture This.......
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 8/2/2009 11:36:31 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 3045
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sharonjef2007
How many wells could $15K dig in Africa? I think they are like $5K a pop. That is a lot of people who could have been helped and ministered to. I wonder if the boat has that kind of far reaching effects?
I wonder if the MM's 30 years of service has.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 8/2/2009 1:26:24 PM
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DeliveredDarling
Posts: 1781
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quote:
Priorities and Stewardship!!!!! You hit it right there! My husband and I were having a conversation about this thread the other day, I wanted his opinion on it. And really, came to the conclusion that I would NOT be a member of a church who chose giving a $15K boat to the MM over fulfilling the needs of the community. That is what happened here. The leadership showed where it's priorites lay by NOT fulfilling it's goals for ministry and yet funding a very much luxery gift to the MM.
In my opinion, it was a very poor choice. And, If it were me, I'd be finding another church who had it's priorities in order.
How many wells could $15K dig in Africa? I think they are like $5K a pop. That is a lot of people who could have been helped and ministered to. I wonder if the boat has that kind of far reaching effects?
I absolutely lvoe my church and won't (at this point) consider leaving it.
What I don't understand is... we are a mission minded church. We have outreaches for our community, however the goals to fund these projects are not being met. Very disturbing to me.
This morning the preacher did announce that we are $4000 short in paying for the boat, which he said , they got a deal only God could make on it,
Donations are still being accepted if any of ya'll would like to contribute
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 8/3/2009 1:26:57 AM
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ironsharpensiron
Posts: 1395
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From: Los Angeles
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quote:
This morning the preacher did announce that we are $4000 short in paying for the boat, which he said , they got a deal only God could make on it,
A deal only God could make..? In this economy boat manufacturers are bending backwards to make deals! So, let's see, maybe God caused our economic situation so that the MM could have the boat..?
It concerns me when from the pulpit God is 'brought into a deal' when that may not be true.
Matthew
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"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 8/3/2009 1:29:38 AM
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ironsharpensiron
Posts: 1395
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From: Los Angeles
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quote:
What I don't understand is... we are a mission minded church. We have outreaches for our community, however the goals to fund these projects are not being met. Very disturbing to me.
Again it boils down to what was mentioned earlier; priorities! Was this gift 'man-centered' or 'God-centered?' If ministries are now lacking more than what they were than I would vote for 'man-centered.'
Matthew
_____________________________
"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 8/3/2009 7:02:09 AM
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Aleric
Posts: 75
Joined: 10/31/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
It has been my experience in churches that offerings are designated in the budget as to purpose. I do not know of any heading on any budget that I have seen that would include a boat as a gift. Extra expenditures have always been voted on by the members. Sorry, I do not have scriptures. I just figured that most churches operated that way except for some of the larger, wealthier ones.
Since you are evidently not familiar with the Chruch leadership in question; then again I ask you for Scripture support for keeping a string attatched to "Free will" offerings.
Also how about some Scriptue about what or what not funds be spent on.
No Scriptures; not point to make.
Thanks
RC
“Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver"
2 Corinthians 9:7 (NIV)
How are we to know if we want to give it or not, if what it's going for is kept from us?
It's not very likely that someone will want to give freely and cheerfully to something they're against.
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 8/3/2009 7:24:29 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 2558
Joined: 10/25/2005
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No big deal. The leadership asked the congregation to donate a good-will gift to a stalwart member of the body. Why is the amount of the gift a problem? If the members of that local body donate enough to cover the gift, then bully for them! I hope the guy and his family get years of enjoyment out of the boat! Shoot, he might even use it for ministry purposes *gasp*.
Also, I have a problem with the whole "look how much that money could have done in Africa" plea , as if Africa were the only place of need in the world. Really? What about the $20 you spent at Borders on that new book this week? That $20 could pay for the medicine an Indian girl needs every month. What about the $5 you paid for that Iced Caramel Machiatto three times this week? That $15 is enough to feed that Chinese orphan for 3 weeks. Do you really need to pay $400/month for that Mini Van? You could get a used sedan for $150 and use the other $250 to pay the fuel bill of an air-mission. Why are you paying $1,200/month toward a mortgage when you could be renting for less than $500/month? Don't you know that extra $700 could be used at your local homeless shelter?
It is easy to level criticism at how others spend their money, but that criticism loses a little more of its potency with every "frivolous" dime you spend on yourself. How about: give what God lays on your heart to give to whomever He says to give it to, and let others do the same?
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"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 8/3/2009 7:59:33 AM
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DeliveredDarling
Posts: 1781
Joined: 8/30/2007
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quote:
No big deal. The leadership asked the congregation to donate a good-will gift to a stalwart member of the body. Why is the amount of the gift a problem? If the members of that local body donate enough to cover the gift, then bully for them! I hope the guy and his family get years of enjoyment out of the boat! Shoot, he might even use it for ministry purposes *gasp*.
Also, I have a problem with the whole "look how much that money could have done in Africa" plea , as if Africa were the only place of need in the world. Really? What about the $20 you spent at Borders on that new book this week? That $20 could pay for the medicine an Indian girl needs every month. What about the $5 you paid for that Iced Caramel Machiatto three times this week? That $15 is enough to feed that Chinese orphan for 3 weeks. Do you really need to pay $400/month for that Mini Van? You could get a used sedan for $150 and use the other $250 to pay the fuel bill of an air-mission. Why are you paying $1,200/month toward a mortgage when you could be renting for less than $500/month? Don't you know that extra $700 could be used at your local homeless shelter?
It is easy to level criticism at how others spend their money, but that criticism loses a little more of its potency with every "frivolous" dime you spend on yourself. How about: give what God lays on your heart to give to whomever He says to give it to, and let others do the same?
Very valid point, Manimal.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 8/3/2009 10:43:26 PM
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sharonjef2007
Posts: 2302
Joined: 4/10/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
No big deal. The leadership asked the congregation to donate a good-will gift to a stalwart member of the body. Why is the amount of the gift a problem? If the members of that local body donate enough to cover the gift, then bully for them! I hope the guy and his family get years of enjoyment out of the boat! Shoot, he might even use it for ministry purposes *gasp*.
Also, I have a problem with the whole "look how much that money could have done in Africa" plea , as if Africa were the only place of need in the world. Really? What about the $20 you spent at Borders on that new book this week? That $20 could pay for the medicine an Indian girl needs every month. What about the $5 you paid for that Iced Caramel Machiatto three times this week? That $15 is enough to feed that Chinese orphan for 3 weeks. Do you really need to pay $400/month for that Mini Van? You could get a used sedan for $150 and use the other $250 to pay the fuel bill of an air-mission. Why are you paying $1,200/month toward a mortgage when you could be renting for less than $500/month? Don't you know that extra $700 could be used at your local homeless shelter?
It is easy to level criticism at how others spend their money, but that criticism loses a little more of its potency with every "frivolous" dime you spend on yourself. How about: give what God lays on your heart to give to whomever He says to give it to, and let others do the same?
Well, Africa is on my mind because we just sent a lady from our church there on a mission trip. She said they need to dig a new well, and it will cost $5K. So, that was why I made that particular comparison.
BTW...my morgage is $550ish per month ;-)
I still think the boat is poor stewardship. Especially since the church is not meeting it's missions goals and still has $4K to raise on the boat they already gave to the MM.
We can agree to disagree ;-) I have left a church before due to it's evident lack of proper priorities shown through how they spent money. I'd do it again if I felt lead to.
_____________________________
my blog......Picture This.......
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