Living Holy Lives

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brody0313 -> Living Holy Lives (7/2/2009 7:40:07 AM)
1 Peter 15-16 (NIV) But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do: for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy." (ref: Lev 11:44,45; 19:2) I'm interested in hearing from others in the community as to how they would define "being holy". In particular, what are your thoughts on the following: -what does it mean to be holy (examples would be great). Thanks and God Bless!! Brody

LoveSavesLives -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/2/2009 7:47:52 AM)
I don't think holy is a word I would use to describe people. However, we are representatives for Christ and we are supposed to be conformed to His image. That means different things to different people though because everyone is at a different spot in their walk with God. I try my best to listen to my convictions. For instance, I don't feel I should be watching, listening to, or reading things with suggestive language or references to drugs, alcohol, or sex. I don't think I am holy because I don't watch, listen to, or read that stuff though. I am far from it in fact. To me, to be holy, is to be sinless and I will never be that way until I get to Heaven. I also try to be involved in things like the sanctity of marriage by signing petitions and calling people in office to voice my opinions. I don't believe in abortion so I volunteer at a pregnancy resource center which offers hope, help, services, and alternatives to girls and women who are pregnant. Does that mean I am holy? No way. It just means I am trying to live by my convictions.

rcjames -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/2/2009 8:57:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brody0313 1 Peter 15-16 (NIV) But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do: for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy." (ref: Lev 11:44,45; 19:2) I'm interested in hearing from others in the community as to how they would define "being holy". In particular, what are your thoughts on the following: -what does it mean to be holy (examples would be great). Thanks and God Bless!! Brody Paul gives a really good description of the lives that Christians are supposed to be living; (Rom 12:1) I beseech you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing to God, which is your reasonable service. (Rom 12:2) And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, in order to prove by you what is that good and pleasing and perfect will of God. Please note that Scripture says this type of lifestye is or "Reasonable service". Non-Scripture definition; serving God and not the flesh, we have been delivered from the bondage of sin and made slaves of righteousnous. Example; Don't sin, and do not let anything outwardly come from you that is not the fruits of the Spirit; (Gal 5:22) But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, (Gal 5:23) meekness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Inwardly; (2Co 10:5) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ. That would be living a holy life. Thanks RC edited for spelling

URForgiven -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/2/2009 9:53:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brody0313 1 Peter 15-16 (NIV) But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do: for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy." (ref: Lev 11:44,45; 19:2) I'm interested in hearing from others in the community as to how they would define "being holy". In particular, what are your thoughts on the following: -what does it mean to be holy (examples would be great). Thanks and God Bless!! Brody If that verse doesn't bury you, then nothing will. It is the summation of what is necessary to make oneself acceptable to a holy God. Not an unreasonable demand from a holy God at all. The problem is that people have the erroneous belief that God would never give us a demand that we couldn't do. But, that is exactly the point, to show us our complete inability to make ourselves what the righteousness and holiness of God demands. "So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith."(Gal. 3:24) Gods righteous demands, and our failure to live up to them, are designed to lead us to He Who alone is able, to the One Who alone is Holy. So that through our dependence upon Him, He can then live the life that a holy God requires. Or it drives us, in our pride, to try in our own effort to be what only God is. God set us apart, in His mind, before there even was a creation. To be holy means to be indwelt by the Holy One, Jesus Christ. Who by His one sacrifice, has made us holy and acceptable in His sight. "For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight" (Eph. 1:4). And we are. Not because of anything we have or can do, but because of what Christ has and continues to do in and through us, as we abide in Him.

TMeeks -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/2/2009 11:49:42 AM)
How many ways can one say that the words of the Bible are carefully chosen and mean something. While your post seems very spiritual and has elements of truth, it completely fails to consider the plain words of the entire context of 1 Peter 1. Peter, while referring back to the Old Testament, was not talking about an Old Testament 'law'. He was calling actual people to make choices in an actual way. He wasn't trying to trick them into failing so that they would recognize their failures. He clearly was calling them to CHOSE to lead holy lives. And, to spiritualize that is to twist the plain meaning of Scripture. 1 Peter 1-2 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: In the introduction Peter lays out that the Spirit DOES do the work of sanctification. But, the word 'FOR' states the purpose of the Spirit's work which is to pave the way for us to have the power to make the CHOICE of obedience and daily cleansing by applying the blood of Christ. This CLEARLY shows an interaction of Spirit and free will. And, the word "Therefore" could not be clearer in this regard. It is not the Holy Spirit, ALONE, that is to prepare out minds. Peter flatly commands US as individuals to prepare our minds. This clearly implies, not an impossible task, as you have suggested... but, a POSSIBLE task taken on by an all children of God. Prepare... Be... Set... Do Not... In all you do... live... While I thoroughly agree that abiding in Christ is THE necessary component of successfully being able to live a Holy life, there are subtle differences in application of that principle that I would see in your overarching interpretation. All of these are action words and all directed at us. Yes, they are given to us in the context of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and our sealing as Children of God. But, every one is presented as attainable NOW. And, every one involves our choice to attain it now. 1 Peter 13-17 13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy." 17 Since you call on a Father who judges each man's work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear. You are confusing the purpose of law PRE-HOLY SPIRIT with the purpose of exhortation POST-HOLY SPIRIT. They are NOT the same. quote: ORIGINAL: URForgiven quote: ORIGINAL: brody0313 1 Peter 15-16 (NIV) But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do: for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy." (ref: Lev 11:44,45; 19:2) I'm interested in hearing from others in the community as to how they would define "being holy". In particular, what are your thoughts on the following: -what does it mean to be holy (examples would be great). Thanks and God Bless!! Brody If that verse doesn't bury you, then nothing will. It is the summation of what is necessary to make oneself acceptable to a holy God. Not an unreasonable demand from a holy God at all. The problem is that people have the erroneous belief that God would never give us a demand that we couldn't do. But, that is exactly the point, to show us our complete inability to make ourselves what the righteousness and holiness of God demands. "So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith."(Gal. 3:24) Gods righteous demands, and our failure to live up to them, are designed to lead us to He Who alone is able, to the One Who alone is Holy. So that through our dependence upon Him, He can then live the life that a holy God requires. Or it drives us, in our pride, to try in our own effort to be what only God is. God set us apart, in His mind, before there even was a creation. To be holy means to be indwelt by the Holy One, Jesus Christ. Who by His one sacrifice, has made us holy and acceptable in His sight. "For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight" (Eph. 1:4). And we are. Not because of anything we have or can do, but because of what Christ has and continues to do in and through us, as we abide in Him.

deermousie -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/2/2009 12:51:06 PM)
I've enjoyed the responses here, but TMeeks rocks! [sm=dance.gif] "Holy" means "separated to God." There's a lot of separateness in Scripture, and God calls some people to be His (separated from those who are not His - the unequally yoked concept is an example where God tells us to separate ourselves from those who don't belong to Him and are going a different direction than God's) and separate ourselves from sin (keep confessing and get back on God's path. Keeping short accounts, you know). [:)] Campus Crusade for Christ describes this as "spiritual breathing": breathing out (confessing sin and stopping it) and breathing in (receiving God's forgiveness). Some days, it's "spiritual panting." [:D] Good thing God never gets tired of forgiving us when we fall, or we'd be toast. His mercy is forever!

DaveW -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/2/2009 1:04:42 PM)
One cannot discuss how to live a holy life unless we look at the meaning of the biblical word. Peter was raised in the synagogue. He recited the Amidah with the kedusha every week. On the weekdays, the 3rd paragraph reads like this: You are holy, your name is holy and holy ones praise you daily. Blessed are you, Holy God. On Saturday, it is much longer and starts with this: Holy, Holy, Holy, the Lord of Hosts, the whole world is filled with His Glory. The Hebrew word Kadosh (holy) literally means to be set apart. (for that reason the word for prostitute is very similar) If we are living a life that is set apart to the Lord's service, that is holy. It does not mean we never stumble into sin, as some may put it. It does mean that if we do we immediatly repent and ask the Lord to cleanse us and get back to His business.

rcjames -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/2/2009 1:07:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TMeeks How many ways can one say that the words of the Bible are carefully chosen and mean something. While your post seems very spiritual and has elements of truth, it completely fails to consider the plain words of the entire context of 1 Peter 1. Peter, while referring back to the Old Testament, was not talking about an Old Testament 'law'. He was calling actual people to make choices in an actual way. He wasn't trying to trick them into failing so that they would recognize their failures. He clearly was calling them to CHOSE to lead holy lives. And, to spiritualize that is to twist the plain meaning of Scripture. 1 Peter 1-2 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: In the introduction Peter lays out that the Spirit DOES do the work of sanctification. But, the word 'FOR' states the purpose of the Spirit's work which is to pave the way for us to have the power to make the CHOICE of obedience and daily cleansing by applying the blood of Christ. This CLEARLY shows an interaction of Spirit and free will. And, the word "Therefore" could not be clearer in this regard. It is not the Holy Spirit, ALONE, that is to prepare out minds. Peter flatly commands US as individuals to prepare our minds. This clearly implies, not an impossible task, as you have suggested... but, a POSSIBLE task taken on by an all children of God. Prepare... Be... Set... Do Not... In all you do... live... While I thoroughly agree that abiding in Christ is THE necessary component of successfully being able to live a Holy life, there are subtle differences in application of that principle that I would see in your overarching interpretation. All of these are action words and all directed at us. Yes, they are given to us in the context of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and our sealing as Children of God. But, every one is presented as attainable NOW. And, every one involves our choice to attain it now. 1 Peter 13-17 13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy." 17 Since you call on a Father who judges each man's work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear. You are confusing the purpose of law PRE-HOLY SPIRIT with the purpose of exhortation POST-HOLY SPIRIT. They are NOT the same. Excellent post TMeeks. Thanks RC

URForgiven -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/2/2009 1:15:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TMeeks How many ways can one say that the words of the Bible are carefully chosen and mean something. While your post seems very spiritual and has elements of truth, it completely fails to consider the plain words of the entire context of 1 Peter 1. Peter, while referring back to the Old Testament, was not talking about an Old Testament 'law'. He was calling actual people to make choices in an actual way. He wasn't trying to trick them into failing so that they would recognize their failures. He clearly was calling them to CHOSE to lead holy lives. And, to spiritualize that is to twist the plain meaning of Scripture. 1 Peter 1-2 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: In the introduction Peter lays out that the Spirit DOES do the work of sanctification. But, the word 'FOR' states the purpose of the Spirit's work which is to pave the way for us to have the power to make the CHOICE of obedience and daily cleansing by applying the blood of Christ. This CLEARLY shows an interaction of Spirit and free will. And, the word "Therefore" could not be clearer in this regard. It is not the Holy Spirit, ALONE, that is to prepare out minds. Peter flatly commands US as individuals to prepare our minds. This clearly implies, not an impossible task, as you have suggested... but, a POSSIBLE task taken on by an all children of God. Prepare... Be... Set... Do Not... In all you do... live... While I thoroughly agree that abiding in Christ is THE necessary component of successfully being able to live a Holy life, there are subtle differences in application of that principle that I would see in your overarching interpretation. All of these are action words and all directed at us. Yes, they are given to us in the context of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and our sealing as Children of God. But, every one is presented as attainable NOW. And, every one involves our choice to attain it now. 1 Peter 13-17 13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy." 17 Since you call on a Father who judges each man's work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear. You are confusing the purpose of law PRE-HOLY SPIRIT with the purpose of exhortation POST-HOLY SPIRIT. They are NOT the same. Is it Christ who makes you holy, or do you make yourself holy? And if it is Christ who makes you holy, how does that happen? As you have said it is as you abide in Him. It is not as you abide in Him plus something else. Yes we are exhorted to be who we are all through the NT. And who we are, is dependent creatures, living in dependence upon the indwelling life of Christ. He is our holiness and our justification and our sanctification and our salvation. That abiding, that dependence upon Him is our faith in action. Resting in Him and His sufficiency to complete the work He has begun in us. The very point at which you insert yourself into the equation, is the very point at which you need to remove yourself. As you so elegantly agreed to in another thread...It's ALL about JESUS.

Pamsy -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/2/2009 1:37:54 PM)
In the Old Testament, the laws given were the guide for holiness.

TMeeks -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/2/2009 2:30:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: URForgiven Is it Christ who makes you holy, or do you make yourself holy? And if it is Christ who makes you holy, how does that happen? As you have said it is as you abide in Him. It is not as you abide in Him plus something else. Again, the nuances of your claims are very subtle. But, when followed to their logical extremes end up having to deny the PLAIN words of Scripture. Like a pendulum, some swing to it's all our responsibility to live a Godly life and you swing to virtually NO responsibility on our part to live a Godly life.. not even choice. In the middle, just a hair's breadth from your position, is the union between God & Man that is the indwelling Holy Spirit being ALLOWED to work BY OUR CHOICE. It's a cooperative agreement whereby we do not prohibit, by our choices, His being able to accomplish things in and through us. It IS 'something else' and that 'something else' IS abiding in Him. It's a choice, not a capitulation. quote: Yes we are exhorted to be who we are all through the NT. And who we are, is dependent creatures, living in dependence upon the indwelling life of Christ. He is our holiness and our justification and our sanctification and our salvation. The Old Nature is essentially the way our brain thinks based on the sin nature with which we were born and the layers upon layers of molecules built up over time that were built the way they were built by interpreting every new experience in the light of selfishness. Our minds had no way of being renewed without a radically new way of interpretating experiences and thoughts. What the Holy Spirit does is to provide a radically new framework for thinking. It places in us a NEW MAN that is able to evaluate the Old Man's thoughts in light of the Holy Spirit's truth. It provides us, for the first time in our lives, an INTERNAL presence of pure TRUTH... the Spirit of Christ. It is our interaction of re-evaluating every one of our old thoughts (capturing) and comparing it to the TRUE thoughts of the Holy Spirit and Word of God that is the process of sanctification. We are TOLD that it is OUR RESPONSIBILITY to CAPTURE these old thoughts... ACTIVELY take them CAPTIVE! And bring them INTO OBEDIENCE to Christ. This is all OUR choice. OUR doing. We take a thought captive. Hold it up before the Holy Spirit to give us the truth and then surround that errant thought with NEW RENEWED thoughts in line with the TRUTH. He is our Justification and our Holiness (Cleansing Salvation) without any action on our part accept accepting His sacrifice. BUT, the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit is to shine a light on our old way of thinking... and for me this means the molecular structure of my brain formed from childhood... so that we can take that thought captive just like a thief and imprison it within the solid walls of Scripture... and, again for me, that means enclosing and trapping those old molecular structures inside new molecular structures so that they are unable to ever bring harm to me or others again. Yes, it IS the Holy Spirit that provides the truth and even the desire to capture the thoughts of the Old Man. But, it is WE that must decide that WE will obey the Scriptures and DECIDE to take each thought captive... allowing the Holy Spirit to SHINE His light on the anti-Christ nature of that old way of thinking. Again, it's a cooperative act. quote: That abiding, that dependence upon Him is our faith in action. Resting in Him and His sufficiency to complete the work He has begun in us. The very point at which you insert yourself into the equation, is the very point at which you need to remove yourself. As you so elegantly agreed to in another thread...It's ALL about JESUS. Resting, yes. Lethargy, no. My hearts cries out for more people that would recognize the value of resting in Jesus Christ's love and PHYSICALLY taking the time to meditate on the sum total of the magnitude of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and the Word. My heart cries our for more people that would recognize that the primary purpose of prayer isn't trying to manipulate God to do our will. He doesn't exist to heal us of every disease. He wants us to come to the place where we recognize that He wants to be glorified in ALL our circumstances... even desparate ones. Even though God was glorified in my mother's life, He was even MORE glorified in her death. Even though my father suffered from prostate and lung cancer, God was glorified by his love for Jesus Christ in spite of the toll these diseases took on his physical body. This is what 'resting in Christ' really means. It is coming to the realization that God is God and that what He wants, more than anything else, is to be glorified in every up and down in our life. And, both my mother and my father inserted themselves into the equation by making the choice to rest in the ultimate goodness of God, no matter what. Again, it was a choice. And, that choice was to MAKE it all about Jesus... not their circumstances or wants. You will see in many of my posts this simple prayer that I believe says "I am making the decision to give you permission to move in my life." It is nothing more than this... and, in my experience, it is the most power prayer I've ever experienced... both for me and those I love. Lord, I ask you to begin this very minute to move me closer and closer to the very center of Your Will each and every day from this day forward. Glorify yourself in all the days of my life.

URForgiven -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/2/2009 3:32:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TMeeks quote: ORIGINAL: URForgiven Is it Christ who makes you holy, or do you make yourself holy? And if it is Christ who makes you holy, how does that happen? As you have said it is as you abide in Him. It is not as you abide in Him plus something else. Again, the nuances of your claims are very subtle. But, when followed to their logical extremes end up having to deny the PLAIN words of Scripture. Like a pendulum, some swing to it's all our responsibility to live a Godly life and you swing to virtually NO responsibility on our part to live a Godly life.. not even choice. In the middle, just a hair's breadth from your position, is the union between God & Man that is the indwelling Holy Spirit being ALLOWED to work BY OUR CHOICE. It's a cooperative agreement whereby we do not prohibit, by our choices, His being able to accomplish things in and through us. It IS 'something else' and that 'something else' IS abiding in Him. It's a choice, not a capitulation. quote: Yes we are exhorted to be who we are all through the NT. And who we are, is dependent creatures, living in dependence upon the indwelling life of Christ. He is our holiness and our justification and our sanctification and our salvation. The Old Nature is essentially the way our brain thinks based on the sin nature with which we were born and the layers upon layers of molecules built up over time that were built the way they were built by interpreting every new experience in the light of selfishness. Our minds had no way of being renewed without a radically new way of interpretating experiences and thoughts. What the Holy Spirit does is to provide a radically new framework for thinking. It places in us a NEW MAN that is able to evaluate the Old Man's thoughts in light of the Holy Spirit's truth. It provides us, for the first time in our lives, an INTERNAL presence of pure TRUTH... the Spirit of Christ. It is our interaction of re-evaluating every one of our old thoughts (capturing) and comparing it to the TRUE thoughts of the Holy Spirit and Word of God that is the process of sanctification. We are TOLD that it is OUR RESPONSIBILITY to CAPTURE these old thoughts... ACTIVELY take them CAPTIVE! And bring them INTO OBEDIENCE to Christ. This is all OUR choice. OUR doing. We take a thought captive. Hold it up before the Holy Spirit to give us the truth and then surround that errant thought with NEW RENEWED thoughts in line with the TRUTH. He is our Justification and our Holiness (Cleansing Salvation) without any action on our part accept accepting His sacrifice. BUT, the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit is to shine a light on our old way of thinking... and for me this means the molecular structure of my brain formed from childhood... so that we can take that thought captive just like a thief and imprison it within the solid walls of Scripture... and, again for me, that means enclosing and trapping those old molecular structures inside new molecular structures so that they are unable to ever bring harm to me or others again. Yes, it IS the Holy Spirit that provides the truth and even the desire to capture the thoughts of the Old Man. But, it is WE that must decide that WE will obey the Scriptures and DECIDE to take each thought captive... allowing the Holy Spirit to SHINE His light on the anti-Christ nature of that old way of thinking. Again, it's a cooperative act. quote: That abiding, that dependence upon Him is our faith in action. Resting in Him and His sufficiency to complete the work He has begun in us. The very point at which you insert yourself into the equation, is the very point at which you need to remove yourself. As you so elegantly agreed to in another thread...It's ALL about JESUS. Resting, yes. Lethargy, no. My hearts cries out for more people that would recognize the value of resting in Jesus Christ's love and PHYSICALLY taking the time to meditate on the sum total of the magnitude of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and the Word. My heart cries our for more people that would recognize that the primary purpose of prayer isn't trying to manipulate God to do our will. He doesn't exist to heal us of every disease. He wants us to come to the place where we recognize that He wants to be glorified in ALL our circumstances... even desparate ones. Even though God was glorified in my mother's life, He was even MORE glorified in her death. Even though my father suffered from prostate and lung cancer, God was glorified by his love for Jesus Christ in spite of the toll these diseases took on his physical body. This is what 'resting in Christ' really means. It is coming to the realization that God is God and that what He wants, more than anything else, is to be glorified in every up and down in our life. And, both my mother and my father inserted themselves into the equation by making the choice to rest in the ultimate goodness of God, no matter what. Again, it was a choice. And, that choice was to MAKE it all about Jesus... not their circumstances or wants. You will see in many of my posts this simple prayer that I believe says "I am making the decision to give you permission to move in my life." It is nothing more than this... and, in my experience, it is the most power prayer I've ever experienced... both for me and those I love. Lord, I ask you to begin this very minute to move me closer and closer to the very center of Your Will each and every day from this day forward. Glorify yourself in all the days of my life. My friend, you have gone beyond what I have written and formed conclusions based on your own assumptions and fears, and then argue from that base. You are arguing with yourself. It is all about our choice. It is our never ending choice that we live and that we die by. You cannot live the Christian life. Christ is the Christian life, and only He can live it. Our choice is always and only to let Him...or to go our own way. This is what I believe. If you do not, then we will have to agree to disagree.

Liveloved -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/2/2009 4:43:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brody0313 1 Peter 15-16 (NIV) But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do: for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy." (ref: Lev 11:44,45; 19:2) I'm interested in hearing from others in the community as to how they would define "being holy". In particular, what are your thoughts on the following: -what does it mean to be holy (examples would be great). Thanks and God Bless!! Brody What does it mean to be holy? I will use my brother, Paul's, words since he says it best: I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and delivered Himself up for me. Galatians 2:20 I can't be (holy). So Christ died for love of me.[:)] By believing, trusting, and fully relying on Who He is and what He has done for me, He lives a holy life in me and for me. So I live by faith in Jesus. Now that's wonderful! It's not about me. . . and that's freedom. It's ALL about JESUS. Great question. Simple answer. JESUS

rcjames -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/2/2009 5:34:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: URForgiven Is it Christ who makes you holy, or do you make yourself holy? Faith is Christ is what justifies us before God. The Grace of God, the Sacrifice of Christ, and the ministry of the Holy Spirit is what givse us the ability to choose to live a Holy life after we are justified. Thanks RC

drmark -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/2/2009 6:15:38 PM)
quote: In the Old Testament, the laws given were the guide for holiness. And in the NT, Jesus condensed all the OT laws into two simple commands - love God and others. That is what holy living is all about! quote: -what does it mean to be holy (examples would be great). Three very extensive passages come quickly to my mind, brody. They are Romans 12:9-21, Ephesians 4:22-32, and Colossians 3:12-25. I'm sure there are many others but we could all live a lifetime of holiness just from these three passages.

URForgiven -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/2/2009 6:37:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rcjames quote: ORIGINAL: URForgiven Is it Christ who makes you holy, or do you make yourself holy? Faith is Christ is what justifies us before God. The Grace of God, the Sacrifice of Christ, and the ministry of the Holy Spirit is what givse us the ability to choose to live a Holy life after we are justified. Thanks RC *" It is because of Him* that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God�that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. "** (1 Corinthians 1:30) God does not need your ability, but only your availability. For myself, I will boast in the Lord, and in the Lord alone.

rosiej1942 -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/2/2009 6:54:17 PM)
MY BIBLE TELLS ME IN COLOSSIANS 3:5-17 RULES FOR HOLY LIVING. ROSIEJ1942

TMeeks -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/2/2009 7:18:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: URForgiven My friend, you have gone beyond what I have written and formed conclusions based on your own assumptions and fears, and then argue from that base. You are arguing with yourself. It is all about our choice. It is our never ending choice that we live and that we die by. You cannot live the Christian life. Christ is the Christian life, and only He can live it. Our choice is always and only to let Him...or to go our own way. This is what I believe. If you do not, then we will have to agree to disagree. Nice try. It's not about fears. It's about Biblical integrity and truth. If what you claim is true then there is no sanctification process because we are just puppets. There is no actual CHANGE IN US as the Holy Spirit is simply USING our bodies and minds. Again, your arguments are subtle but ultimately in error. For, you replace a unity (Holy Spirit/Us) with a possession (Holy Spirit/Empty us). Why are WE called to RENEW our mind if we are simply supposed to empty it?

rcjames -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/3/2009 12:20:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TMeeks quote: ORIGINAL: URForgiven My friend, you have gone beyond what I have written and formed conclusions based on your own assumptions and fears, and then argue from that base. You are arguing with yourself. It is all about our choice. It is our never ending choice that we live and that we die by. You cannot live the Christian life. Christ is the Christian life, and only He can live it. Our choice is always and only to let Him...or to go our own way. This is what I believe. If you do not, then we will have to agree to disagree. Nice try. It's not about fears. It's about Biblical integrity and truth. If what you claim is true then there is no sanctification process because we are just puppets. There is no actual CHANGE IN US as the Holy Spirit is simply USING our bodies and minds. Again, your arguments are subtle but ultimately in error. For, you replace a unity (Holy Spirit/Us) with a possession (Holy Spirit/Empty us). Why are WE called to RENEW our mind if we are simply supposed to empty it? I think that many who cling to the "Puppet" idea is so that when they choose to sin, they can place the blame somewhere besides squarely on themselves. Thanks RC

LCannon -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/3/2009 1:31:21 PM)
Holiness is something that is misunderstood. To the average person holiness means to assume a very pious attitude, to become almost abnormal in everyday life. He(God through the HS)wants you to enjoy life and have fun�I don't mean the sinful kind of fun but real delight and enjoyment in the life He has given to you. Holiness is to the spiritual life what health is to the physical life. One like's to see a person who is physically fine, robust, and healthy; holiness is to be healthy and robust spiritually. Then what does it mean to be holy as God is holy? Our God is a complete, wonderful personality and although we're mere human beings we can be full grown; we can reach maturation. Paul(1Corithians 15:50-55)says as redeemed souls we're saved in position when we appropriate His sacrifice/obedience/Victory, are being saved by our obedience and victories and will finally be saved until holiness in fact when we come into Eternity.

URForgiven -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/3/2009 1:33:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rcjames quote: ORIGINAL: TMeeks quote: ORIGINAL: URForgiven My friend, you have gone beyond what I have written and formed conclusions based on your own assumptions and fears, and then argue from that base. You are arguing with yourself. It is all about our choice. It is our never ending choice that we live and that we die by. You cannot live the Christian life. Christ is the Christian life, and only He can live it. Our choice is always and only to let Him...or to go our own way. This is what I believe. If you do not, then we will have to agree to disagree. Nice try. It's not about fears. It's about Biblical integrity and truth. If what you claim is true then there is no sanctification process because we are just puppets. There is no actual CHANGE IN US as the Holy Spirit is simply USING our bodies and minds. Again, your arguments are subtle but ultimately in error. For, you replace a unity (Holy Spirit/Us) with a possession (Holy Spirit/Empty us). Why are WE called to RENEW our mind if we are simply supposed to empty it? I think that many who cling to the "Puppet" idea is so that when they choose to sin, they can place the blame somewhere besides squarely on themselves. Thanks RC Are you saying that Jesus Christ was a puppet?

rcjames -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/3/2009 1:40:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: URForgiven Are you saying that Jesus Christ was a puppet? Oh please URF, you are the one that says Christians are puppets of God, that if they don't sin, it is because of God, and that would mean if they do sin then it is God's fault. Sin for Christians is a choicel and that coice the Christian makes. Are you some kind of far out there Calvanist? Thanks RC

drmark -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/3/2009 1:51:22 PM)
quote: Are you saying that Jesus Christ was a puppet? Are you saying that Jesus Christ chose to sin? See URF, I can play the misrepresentation game pretty well too! The point we're trying to make is that you post "we cannot live the Christian life" as if God mysteriously removes all trace of our humanity when we become His and thus God controls us like mindless robots. It is both Scripturally and psychologically dangerous to even consider such a concept and as long as you keep espousing this nonsense, there will be several of us to call you on it.

URForgiven -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/3/2009 2:14:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rcjames quote: ORIGINAL: URForgiven Are you saying that Jesus Christ was a puppet? Oh please URF, you are the one that says Christians are puppets of God, that if they don't sin, it is because of God, and that would mean if they do sin then it is God's fault. Sin for Christians is a choicel and that coice the Christian makes. Are you some kind of far out there Calvanist? Thanks RC "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." John 14:10 �"Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know" Acts 2:22 In the same way that Jesus fulfilled His role by living in total dependence upon His indwelling Father, so He now says to us... "Apart from me you can do nothing". John 15:5 To say that a life lived in dependence upon Christ and His sufficiency is being a puppet, is blasphemy. So much for your ability to be holy.

Liveloved -> RE: Living Holy Lives (7/3/2009 2:23:14 PM)
Jesus' answer to those who asked 'what shall we do, that we may work the works of God?'. This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent. John 6:29 This seems straightforward to me.[:)]

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