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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; attack congregation
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 12:39:00 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2971
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From: NYC by way of Chicago
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
No, of course not.
Next time I am conducting an arrest I will allow 30 people to bum rush and try to interfere. I should just forget about going home to my wife and kids.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
They hardly bum rushed in. They didn't even leave church property, and heck, they were pentecostal worshippers who have been trained to respect the authorities that be. Perhaps a community affairs course would be good for all police officers, as well.
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 12:40:12 PM
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GraceyGirl
Posts: 317
Joined: 6/4/2006
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Are you serious? LOL Or just ignorant?
A taser is not considered deadly force.
How does an advanced taser work?
Upon firing, compressed nitrogen projects two taser probes 15 feet at a speed of 135 feet per second. An electrical signal transmits throughout the region where the probes make contact with the body or clothing. The result is an instant loss of the attacker’s neuromuscular control and any ability to perform coordinated action. Taser uses an automatic timing mechanism to apply the electric charge. The taser releases an electric current in a pre-set time sequence (an initial seven seconds followed by several 1.8 second breaks for a total time of about 30 seconds in each cycle). This cycle ensures that the nervous system of the target does not recover instantly to allow him to remove the probes. The follow-on bursts disrupt the process of re-equilibration of the nervous system. While the target is disabled, the user can place the device on the ground and escape.
_____________________________
God called. He'd like His church back.
~John Wimber~
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 12:45:24 PM
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GraceyGirl
Posts: 317
Joined: 6/4/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
No, of course not.
Next time I am conducting an arrest I will allow 30 people to bum rush and try to interfere. I should just forget about going home to my wife and kids.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
They hardly bum rushed in. They didn't even leave church property, and heck, they were pentecostal worshippers who have been trained to respect the authorities that be. Perhaps a community affairs course would be good for all police officers, as well.
Perhaps a course in "common sense" would be good for this little church.
_____________________________
God called. He'd like His church back.
~John Wimber~
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 12:47:48 PM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1863
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
A taser is considered to be deadly
By who?
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
(although less-lethal) force.
That's an oxymoron and a contradiction. Either it is or it isn't.
Guess what? It is considered non-lethal.
Thank you. Less lethal is a term coined by department lawyers because moronic civilians don't understand that any method of restraint can lead to death if the stars align. People with heart conditions (the most likely to die from taser) have died from being restrained just due to the stress of the situation. That doesn't make restraints a less-lethal device. It is sue happy moronic Americans who have caused the need for the term.
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 12:47:54 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4179
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
No, of course not.
Next time I am conducting an arrest I will allow 30 people to bum rush and try to interfere. I should just forget about going home to my wife and kids.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
They hardly bum rushed in. They didn't even leave church property, and heck, they were pentecostal worshippers who have been trained to respect the authorities that be. Perhaps a community affairs course would be good for all police officers, as well.
I'm sorry you have a problem with the police, but the traffic stop was none of their business and no one, including that pastor, had any reason to approach the officer doing his job. If the pastor and his congregants had done what they were supposed to do--not interfere with official police business--then no one would have been tased.
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 12:49:56 PM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1863
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
They hardly bum rushed in. They didn't even leave church property, and heck, they were pentecostal worshippers who have been trained to respect the authorities that be. Perhaps a community affairs course would be good for all police officers, as well.
Their training failed. If a MOB of people approach an officer who is in the middle of arresting one of their members he has every reason to be suspicious of their intentions. I understand that the officer's safety is second in your mind but that doesn't make that view correct.
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 12:52:08 PM
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GraceyGirl
Posts: 317
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
They hardly bum rushed in. They didn't even leave church property, and heck, they were pentecostal worshippers who have been trained to respect the authorities that be. Perhaps a community affairs course would be good for all police officers, as well.
Their training failed. If a MOB of people approach an officer who is in the middle of arresting one of their members he has every reason to be suspicious of their intentions. I understand that the officer's safety is second in your mind but that doesn't make that view correct.
Two snaps for your ijp!
_____________________________
God called. He'd like His church back.
~John Wimber~
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 12:52:33 PM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1863
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I'm sorry you have a problem with the police, but the traffic stop was none of their business and no one, including that pastor, had any reason to approach the officer doing his job. If the pastor and his congregants had done what they were supposed to do--not interfere with official police business--then no one would have been tased.
If they had, from a safe distance, chosen to monitor the situation for impropriety on the policemans part that would have been well and fine but when they approach with in the distance where a policeman is not likely to be able to respond in defense of himself quickly enough then it is his duty to the person he has pulled over and his duty to his family to protect himself and come home safe that leads him to respond.
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 12:54:37 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2971
Joined: 10/12/2007
From: NYC by way of Chicago
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GraceyGirl
Are you serious? LOL Or just ignorant?
A taser is not considered deadly force.
How does an advanced taser work?
Upon firing, compressed nitrogen projects two taser probes 15 feet at a speed of 135 feet per second. An electrical signal transmits throughout the region where the probes make contact with the body or clothing. The result is an instant loss of the attacker’s neuromuscular control and any ability to perform coordinated action. Taser uses an automatic timing mechanism to apply the electric charge. The taser releases an electric current in a pre-set time sequence (an initial seven seconds followed by several 1.8 second breaks for a total time of about 30 seconds in each cycle). This cycle ensures that the nervous system of the target does not recover instantly to allow him to remove the probes. The follow-on bursts disrupt the process of re-equilibration of the nervous system. While the target is disabled, the user can place the device on the ground and escape.
How do explain how the victim wound up in the hospital, then?
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 12:56:34 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6196
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
How do explain how the victim wound up in the hospital, then?
Ummm, didn't the article say he had a heart condition?
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 12:56:42 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2971
Joined: 10/12/2007
From: NYC by way of Chicago
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
Their training failed. If a MOB of people approach an officer who is in the middle of arresting one of their members he has every reason to be suspicious of their intentions. I understand that the officer's safety is second in your mind but that doesn't make that view correct.
Hardly. Authority shouldn't be resisted, but as demonstrated in Acts, it must be watched and questioned all the time.
quote:
Ummm, didn't the article say he had a heart condition?
Hence, deadly weapon.
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 12:57:06 PM
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GraceyGirl
Posts: 317
Joined: 6/4/2006
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quote:
How do explain how the victim wound up in the hospital, then?
The OFFENDER is in the hospital, b/c as his wife stated, he had a preexisting heart condition that was likely "aggravated" by the electrical stimulation he received. I read the article and saw the pictures - he was not a healthy man anyway. He was morbidly overweight to begin with. Also, offenders turned victim will claim injury to try to prevent an arrest. I was happy to read that the police dept is considering filing charges anyway.
_____________________________
God called. He'd like His church back.
~John Wimber~
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 1:00:02 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2971
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From: NYC by way of Chicago
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GraceyGirl
The OFFENDER is in the hospital, b/c as his wife stated, he had a preexisting heart condition that was likely "aggravated" by the electrical stimulation he received. I read the article and saw the pictures - he was not a healthy man anyway. He was morbidly overweight to begin with. Also, offenders turned victim will claim injury to try to prevent an arrest. I was happy to read that the police dept is considering filing charges anyway.
Well, the media seems to be taking the side of the community pastor in this case. This should be a very interesting trial, to say the least.
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 1:00:08 PM
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ironsharpensiron
Posts: 1373
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From: Los Angeles
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quote:
How do explain how the victim wound up in the hospital, then?
Maybe he was 'lacking in faith' to be healed... 
Or maybe he is playing this out to the fullest extent for the sympathy. Probably realizing he was in the wrong, but doesn't want to admit it (pride), and is now playing the victim...
Matthew
_____________________________
"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 1:00:40 PM
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GraceyGirl
Posts: 317
Joined: 6/4/2006
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You know what else is interesting? The OP seems to conveniently leave out the fact that the pastor ASSAULTED a law enforcement officer. The article stated he pushed the police officer, fled to the church, and returned with the congregation.
I'm curious as to what the OP's response would have been if someone had pushed him, and then brought 30 homeys to the party.
_____________________________
God called. He'd like His church back.
~John Wimber~
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 1:02:30 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2971
Joined: 10/12/2007
From: NYC by way of Chicago
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GraceyGirl
You know what else is interesting? The OP seems to conveniently leave out the fact that the pastor ASSAULTED a law enforcement officer. The article stated he pushed the police officer, fled to the church, and returned with the congregation.
I'm curious as to what the OP's response would have been if someone had pushed him, and then brought 30 homeys to the party.
Allegedly assaulted, contrary to the reports of 30 born-again Christian witnesses.
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 1:04:34 PM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1863
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
Their training failed. If a MOB of people approach an officer who is in the middle of arresting one of their members he has every reason to be suspicious of their intentions. I understand that the officer's safety is second in your mind but that doesn't make that view correct.
Hardly. Authority shouldn't be resisted, but as demonstrated in Acts, it must be watched and questioned all the time.
Had they watched and not interfered they wouldn't have been tased/sprayed.
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 1:04:48 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6479
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
For what? The pastor:
1.) Was on church property.
Yes, the parking lot, and we are talking about the police having pulled someone over, not whomever doing whatever on church property...
quote:
2.) Was being non-violent
Maybe, but one can be non-violent and interfere with the police simply doing their job... And many times when the person who will not let the cop do his job does finally get confronted they tend to not wish to comply, which is probably the case here...
quote:
3.) Was merely asking what was going on.
To which to some degree is none of his business and one should use a a lot care when confronting the police, especially in numbers...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 1:05:06 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2971
Joined: 10/12/2007
From: NYC by way of Chicago
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ironsharpensiron
Or maybe he is playing this out to the fullest extent for the sympathy. Probably realizing he was in the wrong, but doesn't want to admit it (pride), and is now playing the victim...
Matthew
Wrong? Hardly. If a police officer assaults you with a deadly weapon for asking questions, you'd feel pretty ornary, too.
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 1:06:20 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2971
Joined: 10/12/2007
From: NYC by way of Chicago
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
Had they watched and not interfered they wouldn't have been tased/sprayed.
So you trust the police over 30 born-again conservative evangelical Christians? Hmmm... trust the crowd of bystanders or one police officer who has more motive to lie than they do... And what happened to the dash cam?
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 1:06:29 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6479
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From: Truth Project
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Hence, deadly weapon.
No more than his next meal....
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 1:08:07 PM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1863
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Allegedly assaulted, contrary to the reports of 30 born-again Christian witnesses.
So you assume that the policeman is not a born again Christian? You do have a low view of those who maintain your safety.
These born again Christians (assuming that is what they are) are no less capable of sin than is the atheist down the road. More importantly they are every bit as capable of a mob mentality. Combine that with the FACT that the congregation was in the church during the initial altercation and you have a less than reliable case.
Now let's talk about the media portrayal of this. The media is no longer about reporting facts, they are in it for money and to sensationalize an incident is in their best interest and therfore i look upon their reporting of accounts with skepticism.
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 1:08:09 PM
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GraceyGirl
Posts: 317
Joined: 6/4/2006
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Exactly, just as this pastor was "allegedly" following God's law and respecting the police officer.
How exactly do his actions measure up to the standard Jesus gave to us about submitting ourselves to those in authority?
_____________________________
God called. He'd like His church back.
~John Wimber~
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RE: Texas Police shoot Pentecostal pastor with taser; a... - 7/2/2009 1:09:28 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6479
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Nobody was interfering with anyone's duties. People have a right to watch what's going on and even ask questions- they don't have the right to have them answered, but there is nothing illegal about asking what's going on if someone is pulled over on your property.
And when the police tell you to back off and let them do their job you are obligated to obey... Even more so if you claim to be of God, since obeying lawful authority is paramount and should be almost second nature...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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