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RE: Marrying a woman or man with a child (or two) - 7/5/2009 2:05:41 AM
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rebakahblam
Posts: 1587
Joined: 12/6/2008
From: Indianapolis
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*childless single wanting to pop in and ask a question*
quote:
We've been training the Girl that she will not have a "step"-mom. She will have a mom. "step" is dirty word meaning "different" or "not real".
While I understand this philosophy I am curious to hear more about this.
As someone who has as a step-parent (and what a truly beautiful, godly, and wonderful woman she is!), it'd be odd for me to call her mum though I feel her my mum just as much as my real mum.
For the father to have asked me to call her mum at the beginning or ever really would have been, I feel, quite out of his place and honestly quite confusing if not traumatic. (I guess a lot of it would depend on the maturity of your child and the introduction process. In my situation, I met my stepmum once and then I remember her packing up things from my dad's apartment and I don't know if it registered immediately or if it was later when we lived in her house that I realized they had gotten married - I think I was 4/5ish at the time?).
Have you discussed with your children what they will call a future spouse?
Have you told them as John_O has told The Girl what they will call a future spouse? Have they objected to this or have they agreed? Do you think children even have a right to voice their opinion when it comes to this, especially if their biological parent is still living/around (I understand John_O's position as a widower)?
Have you discussed or decided when the children would start calling the spouse whatever you have decided? Would it be upon initial meeting (this would seem odd if you decided they'd call a new mum, mum) or would it be after you were engaged and married (it'd seem odd to me at least if they called the person by the first name and then once you were married had to switch to mum)? <<<I guess that's an instance where it'd depend when you personally and prayerfully decide it appropriate to introduce a child to a potential mate...but that is another topic altogether.
Not trying to make a judgment nor suggest you haven't thought about this but am curious what you think?
-reba.
_____________________________
<<<<can't nobody pull off aviators like i can.
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RE: Marrying a woman or man with a child (or two) - 7/5/2009 2:17:04 AM
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Prairiehiker
Posts: 4022
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quote:
ORIGINAL: skreyola
quote:
Children are a precious gift from God, but they shouldn't be the center of someone else's existence. That is God's place. And they shouldn't be the center of a marriage (a child is only in the household for 18-20 years, in today's culture, but probably not nearly as long as the marriage should last). That is the place of the couple.
For a single parent, the focus should be similar to the married parent: Focus on God first, on your health and your support relationships (this is where the married person would focus on the spouse), then on the well-being of the children, then on the needs of other family, then on others, and finally on the wants and whims of him/herself and the children.
Yes, having a child will necessitate many scheduling concerns, budgeting concerns, and other decision-making considerations, but that doesn't mean the child is the center or focus. For instance, look at budgeting your finances. First, you give to God what God tells you is right. Second, you pay for the things that support your well-being and health (you can't do anything for the child if you don't keep up your own strength; like the oxygen mask model on an airplane), as well as setting aside money needed to spend time with your support network and maintain those relationships. Third, you budget for the things needed to keep the children healthy and secure. Then on things needed for the other duties and relationships in your life. Finally, if there is enough left, you start fulfilling the wants that are not needs. Not only is it good stewardship, it helps pass on the values of stewardship to the children.
That's the view from where I sit.
quote:
Yes. And saying the children "are the center of my life" or "are the most important thing" is an indication that there's probably some child-worship happening, or at least that the children are probably more in control than the parent. So, what I'm really saying, apart from the importance of proper priorities, is that it's okay to say your children are precious and important to you, but if you say they're the center or the most important thing in your life, you're sending a message that you don't have room for God, let alone a man.
That's how I see it, for what little it's worth.
The term may just be a common phrase use to define priorities. It doesn't necessarily mean that God isn't a priority, but it could very well be that one is recognizing his calling as a parent, and for the majority of people who have parent a child, they do see it as the most important thing in their lives. I honestly don't even know that God has to even list as number one in your life, because He doesn't need a number. Once you make him the authority in your life, you place everything under Him, and He gives you wisdom to know which way to order your priorities.
While your example given above looks good, one can tell you're not speaking from your experience. It looks good on paper. In practice? You'll eventually find out (I hope). While I do agree that one's well being has to be important, adding children to the dynamic completely changes what would add to a person's well being. For example, before I had a child, it added to my well being to have a $200 hair cut, to go out with my friends (support system) on Friday nights, to go for a long run every day, etc, etc. The moment I had a child, I had to do without the haircuts, and the Friday night drinks, and the long runs because what gave me a sense of well being changed was knowing that the kid had her diaphers, and we're spending adequate amount of time bonding and making sure she feels secure. Doing what is the best interest of our children gives us a sense of well being far above more than what a $200 haircut, a regular social life, and a slim body ever would. Being a parent requires us to do a lot of sacrifice, and it's not called child worship, It's called responsibility. It's not forgetting God or having no place for God....it's about recognizing the task that God placed in front of us.
And you know what happens to children of parents who seeks their own well being in ways that they did prior to having children? The children almost always end up in foster homes. So, you won't find me catering to a man who believes he should be my priority because he fulfills my well being, while my child is placed at the bottom of the list.
You will find out that marriage and kids alter life dramatically. I don't expect you to believe this because trust me, before I had a child, I thought I knew how things should be done, too. I annoyed people with my idea of how to parent their kids! Boy, what little did I know.
And for what it's worth, a woman who understand the importance of godly childrearing, instead of thinking she's into idol worship (of a child), perhaps, she might be worth getting to know. She'd make a great mother to your future children.
_____________________________
Search me, Oh God, and know my heart
Try me, and know my anxieties;
And see if there is any wicked way in me, and
Lead me in the way everlasting Psalm 139:22-24
-------------------------------------
Go Steelers!!!
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RE: Marrying a woman or man with a child (or two) - 7/5/2009 8:30:13 AM
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ShallbeRebuilt
Posts: 1599
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
Have you discussed with your children what they will call a future spouse?
Have you told them as John_O has told The Girl what they will call a future spouse? Have they objected to this or have they agreed? Do you think children even have a right to voice their opinion when it comes to this, especially if their biological parent is still living/around (I understand John_O's position as a widower)?
Nah. We haven't discussed it because there has never been a reason to...i.e. no dating for me. But as my children are much older than The Girl, I imagine that they will choose their own ways of relating. Names and titles are very important. They mean things, and I think each of my children will relate to my second husband in a different way and may find their own name for that.
The cool thing is, we have kind of a family example that will help. My ddh's mother's mother lost her husband when ddh's mother was about 9. After ddh's mother and dad married, her mother remarried a former love who came back into her life. He was a wonderful man and the only "grandpa" the kids ever knew. So we have a sort of precedent of what to call someone and how to relate to them.
I have wondered if God will bring a "step"-father (and yes, he will be that, and not father--all but one of my children remember their father and I would not push him out of his place of prominence in their lives at all) before all the children are grown. I would love especially for my two younger girls (12 today! and 16) to have a father-figure in their lives to help them understand life--but perhaps God, in his wisdom, knows that that would not be a good thing. Time will tell.
And btw, I understand what John is saying, and it may very well be the right thing in his situation: my kids are older, though, and loved and honored their dad so having another "dad" just won't work for us. It won't likely be an authority/discipline issue since my kids are older, either. So I just won't have the same concerns that John will.
I also stand with John in that if I remarry, I will marry someone whom I can trust to make decisions TOGETHER about discipline of the children. That's absolutely fundamental and non-negotiable. That doesn't mean things will always go the way I think they ought, and I am aware of that possibility. I know that God loves my children more than I ever could, and that I can trust HIM with them, regardless of the decisions any future mate and I would make concerning their discipline.
In other words, I'm going to deal with that issue up front by marrying someone who totally understands parenting and the action of husband and wife presenting a united front to the children under God's authority. Otherwise I won't marry.
shallbe
_____________________________
has decided that the command against forsaking the assembling of ourselves together shall henceforth be considered satisfied when she wakes up each morning and finds that all her body parts are still assembled...
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RE: Marrying a woman or man with a child (or two) - 7/5/2009 3:35:00 PM
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John_O
Posts: 7802
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rebakahblam
*childless single wanting to pop in and ask a question*
quote:
We've been training the Girl that she will not have a "step"-mom. She will have a mom. "step" is dirty word meaning "different" or "not real".
While I understand this philosophy I am curious to hear more about this.
Have you discussed with your children what they will call a future spouse?
Have you told them as John_O has told The Girl what they will call a future spouse? Have they objected to this or have they agreed? Do you think children even have a right to voice their opinion when it comes to this, especially if their biological parent is still living/around (I understand John_O's position as a widower)?
If I were divorced rather than widowered I could not do it, Her mom would still be alive. But in our circumstances she doesn't have a mom.
The children always have a right to voice their opinion. The parents always have the right to ignore it. However the Girl agrees with us. She sees "step" as being too cinderella-ish and scary, as well as being not quite family.
Have you discussed or decided when the children would start calling the spouse whatever you have decided? Would it be upon initial meeting (this would seem odd if you decided they'd call a new mum, mum) or would it be after you were engaged and married (it'd seem odd to me at least if they called the person by the first name and then once you were married had to switch to mum)? <<<I guess that's an instance where it'd depend when you personally and prayerfully decide it appropriate to introduce a child to a potential mate...but that is another topic altogether.
After the engagement, but before the wedding, as we all (all three of us plus grandparents) became comfortable with it. I expect that the Girl will be comfortable first. She wants a new mommy badly.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Marrying a woman or man with a child (or two) - 7/5/2009 5:55:34 PM
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skreyola
Posts: 827
Joined: 1/28/2008
From: 31/M/325[0-9][0-9]
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
The term may just be a common phrase use to define priorities. It
They may be idle words, but that makes my case in point. Common phrase or not, it sends a signal.
This is a strong message. Before dismissing it, think about its ramifications.
Where I've seen it, the meaning is pretty clear: "You'll never be more important to me than my child is." Maybe she'd put God ahead of her child, but maybe not. Certainly, she's putting her child ahead of any possible future mate. I'm not going to marry date a woman who says right up front that she values a child more than a husband. Will her child grow old with her and cleave to her in her waning years? Shall the child and the mother become one flesh?
Yes, it does define priorities... but is it a definition of good priorities?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
While your example given above looks good, one can tell you're not speaking from your experience. It looks good on paper. In practice? You'll eventually find out (I hope). While I do agree that one's well being has to be important, adding children to the dynamic completely changes what would add to a person's well being. For example, before I had a child, it added to my well being to have a $200 hair cut, to go out with my friends (support system) on Friday nights, to go for a long run every day,
If you think that because I don't have children, I don't understand responsibility or the difference between needs and wants, you are mistaken.
Well-being does not mean "makes me feel good".
I don't say this because you've annoyed me. You haven't. I say this because you seem to have read something into my post that I did not write, and I want your understanding of what I said to be correct.
Yeah, I see your point is that priorities change when you have kids, but that doesn't really have anything to do with this discussion. This thread starts from the idea of already having a child in the mix, so we're not talking about how you (generic you) put your wants and whims lower on the list than when you were solo and selfish. Yes, children are a very large and important part of a parent's life, but there's a HUGE difference between important and center. The center of your life is who or what you worship. There's only one person who belongs there.
I can see why you'd say what you did if you started from the idea that I didn't mean what I said, but I did mean it. Let me attempt to clarify it:
God comes first. Your health requirements come second, so that you'll be able to carry out the care of your children (this includes the things needed to maintain ties with your support system, that is, family and intimate friends, not acquaintances). The children's health and safety requirements come third (yes, a lot of them are covered by things you need for yourself, like paying for housing, food, lights, water, fuel, etc.; this third one is for things you buy only because your child needs them). Fourth come other duties. Fifth come luxury items, like new toys, expensive haircuts/perms/pedicures, a night out with friends, trips to the amusement park, and other things you don't have to have but that make you feel good.
I would love to get to know a woman who understands the importance of raising Godly children and doesn't put them in the place of worship where God belongs. I would spend a great deal of time getting to know her.
_____________________________
-- Skreyola, who has left the building.
To learn from your experiences is good, but to learn from the experiences of others is better.
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RE: Marrying a woman or man with a child (or two) - 7/5/2009 6:04:00 PM
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skreyola
Posts: 827
Joined: 1/28/2008
From: 31/M/325[0-9][0-9]
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
Have you discussed or decided when the children would start calling the spouse whatever you have decided? Would it be upon initial meeting (this would seem odd if you decided they'd call a new mum, mum) or would it be after you were engaged and married (it'd seem odd to me at least if they called the person by the first name and then once you were married had to switch to mum)? <<<I guess that's an instance where it'd depend when you personally and prayerfully decide it appropriate to introduce a child to a potential mate...but that is another topic altogether.
After the engagement, but before the wedding, as we all (all three of us plus grandparents) became comfortable with it. I expect that the Girl will be comfortable first. She wants a new mommy badly.
Because of the way it was quoted, I at first thought the inner quote was something you said.
Still, it made me curious (and surprised, while I thought you said it): Does the Girl call adults by their first names?
I hope she gets a mommy soon. *hug*
_____________________________
-- Skreyola, who has left the building.
To learn from your experiences is good, but to learn from the experiences of others is better.
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RE: Marrying a woman or man with a child (or two) - 7/5/2009 9:36:00 PM
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Geeky1
Posts: 146
Status: offline
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Great thread PH. We seem to be on the same wavelength so often it is eerie....
This thread made me really think about something I've been struggling with (and avoiding to some extent, I think). I have two kids, and I struggle with the idea of dating sometimes. The way I see it, God entrusted these two wonderful kids to me, and it is my job to teach them and to guide them. But the best way to teach someone is by example, therefore the best way to teach my children how to love the Lord is to let them see me do it, and the best way for them to learn how to have a healthy relationship is for them to see me model how to do it. I have to admit, leading by example is something I have allowed discouragement to displace lately.
I agree that it should be God first, family second. To me, that is a unit- husband, wife, children. I think it is all interconnected, regardless of whether or not the children are products of both parents or not. It is important that the husband and wife nurture their marriage both for their own sake and for the well-being of the children. I don't think there should be a situation of "the spouse or the children". I am not naive, I know it happens, but I don't think it should. I also recognize that there are many shades of gray involved. I would not want to be with a man who would make me choose, nor would I tolerate disrespect from my children toward my husband. If I were ever to remarry, my children would have to respect my husband as the head of the family- if I ever hear from either of them "I don't have to listen to you, you're not my dad!!" or anything like it there will be much gnashing of teeth ;). On the flip side, I would not marry a man who could not accept and love my children.
And now to answer the original question: of course I would marry someone with children :)
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RE: Marrying a woman or man with a child (or two) - 7/5/2009 11:54:38 PM
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John_O
Posts: 7802
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: skreyola
Still, it made me curious (and surprised, while I thought you said it): Does the Girl call adults by their first names?
Unfortunately yes. I've always tried to instill the "mr so and so" or "Mrs so and so" but everyone else in the whole world goes by first names.
quote:
I hope she gets a mommy soon. *hug*
Thank you.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Marrying a woman or man with a child (or two) - 7/6/2009 12:40:08 AM
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skreyola
Posts: 827
Joined: 1/28/2008
From: 31/M/325[0-9][0-9]
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: skreyola
Still, it made me curious (and surprised, while I thought you said it): Does the Girl call adults by their first names?
Unfortunately yes. I've always tried to instill the "mr so and so" or "Mrs so and so" but everyone else in the whole world goes by first names.
Yes. Our society doesn't support the idea of showing people proper respect. Good that you are trying to instill in her a sense of courtesy. :)
_____________________________
-- Skreyola, who has left the building.
To learn from your experiences is good, but to learn from the experiences of others is better.
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