Search The Bible   
Featured Sponsors
Crosswalk Forums on Faith Community Network
  Forum Tools
Forums  | Register | Login

Photo Gallery |  Member List |  Search |  Calendars |  FAQ |  TOS |  Disclaimer |  Ticket List | 

a new reformation

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Life] >> Home Education Support >> a new reformation
Jump to post #:
Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
a new reformation - 7/13/2009 6:01:30 PM   
RJR_fan

 

Posts: 1168
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
Status: offline
Once upon a time, I used to pray for revival. No longer. Revivals are usually emotional circuses. As one gent I usually have little time for observed with unexpected wisdom, churches are almost always far worse off two years after experiencing revival than they were before.

If you really want to see history transformed for the glory of God, pray and work for reformation -- for an intensified and innovation application of God's Word to a new area.

The "holy roller" circles I orbit in make a lot of noise about "the latest move of God." When that term is couched in experiential/emotional terms, though, it is an addictive poison. Today's thrills burn out, and leave the thrill-chaser panting after The Next Big Thing. Today, speaking in tongues may satisfy. Tomorrow, though, the "really" spiritual folks will be "vibrating in the spirit." Or maybe laughing uncontrollably. Making animal noises?

Meanwhile, millions of Christian families are quietly and discretely seeking to obey God more fully, in the area of the education of their children.

One movement is bringing increasing ridicule and reproach upon the name of Christ. The other is the future of this country.

_____________________________

Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
Post #: 1
RE: a new reformation - 7/13/2009 8:16:29 PM   
cynthia


Posts: 7008
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
Status: offline
Tom,
How does this pertain to homeschooling?
We don't pray for revival. We pray for repentance and that the Lord will raise up godly leaders. I sit in the living room and pray this with my children, then when I open my eyes and see them I realize I am praying for them. They will be the godly leaders of their generation and it is coming up fast. Already I see in my 15yo dd that she is a leader. We are to be raising our children up to lead. That is part of a godly, moral education in these perilous times.

_____________________________

My husband and I have a motto:
We are the leader. We are one.
Post #: 2
RE: a new reformation - 7/13/2009 8:54:13 PM   
Johnny_

 

Posts: 765
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cynthia

How does this pertain to homeschooling?


I've got a better question. What in the world is New Reformation?
Post #: 3
RE: a new reformation - 7/13/2009 9:16:57 PM   
Johnny_

 

Posts: 765
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
Status: offline
Were you referring to New Apostolic Reformation? I don't believe in it but here is what I've found on Wikipedia. Sounds like a New-Age movement.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wikipedia

The New Apostolic Reformation is a movement in Protestant Christianity that grew out of the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements, that asserts that God is restoring the lost offices of church governance, namely the offices of Prophet and Apostle. The New Apostolic Reformation started from Pentecostal and Charismatic origins, and thus includes belief in the ongoing ministry of the Holy Spirit within a believer; the performance of miracles (such as healing), prophecy and the revelation of Christ within a believer. However, although the movement sees the Church as the true body of saved believers as many Evangelical Protestants do, it maintains the need for Church offices and submission to Church leaders, who are seen as ordained by God, and given power and authority by God to lead by serving, as described in the biblical letter of the apostle Paul to the Ephesians. As such, they believe in the 5-fold offices of the Church first popularized in Charismatic groups; of which the prophet and apostle has been absent from the Church for the last 2000 years, and are now being restored. See Five-Fold Ministry. Many apostolic churches are at their heart missionary churches. This reformation seeks to reform the church on a global scale beginning first with the local church which is then networked to other apostolic churches relating to one another as one body and submitted to Christ who is believed to be the head of the church. The apostolic ministry is not concerned with membership numbers but rather with a process they refer to as the formation of Christ within its members. As such, apostolic churches tend to be small, consisting of dedicated believers who all function and carry weight in the church, working together toward the commission and vision of the local church.
Post #: 4
RE: a new reformation - 7/13/2009 9:22:32 PM   
RJR_fan

 

Posts: 1168
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
Status: offline
quote:

I've got a better question. What in the world is New Reformation?


FWIW, I believe that the contemporary home schooling movement in America is a reformation. God's Word applied to an area of life that had been permitted to go adrift for way too long. Luther and Calvin reformed church life, bringing it into closer alignment with God's Word. Home schooling families in their millions are reforming family life -- and the future is as bright as the promises of God.

God is at work. And I want to be in on what He is up to!

_____________________________

Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
Post #: 5
RE: a new reformation - 7/13/2009 9:22:34 PM   
Johnny_

 

Posts: 765
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
Status: offline
Tom, maybe you were referring to a Christian revival.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wikipedia

Christian revival is a term that generally refers to a specific period of increased spiritual interest or renewal in the life of a church congregation or many churches, either regionally or globally. This should be distinguished from the use of the term "revival" to refer to a highly emotional evangelistic meeting or series of meetings either in a church building or a large tent or even in the open air; see Revival meeting. While elements such as mass conversions of non-believers and perceived beneficial effects on the moral climate of a given culture may be involved, revivals are seen by many Christians as being the restoration of the church itself to a vital and fervent relationship with God after a period of decline. The word "church" here referring to the body of believers in Christ as a whole and not to any particular group or denomination among them.
Post #: 6
RE: a new reformation - 7/14/2009 6:57:34 AM   
Johnny_

 

Posts: 765
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
Status: offline
Tom, I fail to see a connection between homeschooling and a revival. Trying to make a connection between the two is bit of a stretch.
Post #: 7
RE: a new reformation - 7/14/2009 7:14:21 AM   
judii1


Posts: 858
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: The Frozen Thumb of MI!
Status: offline
quote:

This reformation seeks to reform the church on a global scale beginning first with the local church which is then networked to other apostolic churches relating to one another as one body and submitted to Christ who is believed to be the head of the church.

Isn't this true of a lot of churches? The Baptist churches send out missionaries, too.

I wouldn't say that homeschooling is a reformation. I think that it's more of taking back what once was school in the U.S. . When I went to school, we said the Pledge and prayed the Our Father in class every day. Then, one day, we couldn't pray anymore and the teacher couldn't tell me why when I asked. We learned how to read and write, and multiply and divide. There were no sex ed classes and we didn't learn how to live in a global village. We were the United States of America, the best country on the planet and we knew it.

_____________________________

What does 1 boy + 1 set of new clothes + 1 brother with a paintball gun = ?
Post #: 8
RE: a new reformation - 7/14/2009 7:41:48 AM   
Johnny_

 

Posts: 765
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
Status: offline
But school is a educational institution and not a religious institution. The government created a separation of church and state for this very reason.
Post #: 9
RE: a new reformation - 7/14/2009 7:50:07 AM   
Johnny_

 

Posts: 765
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
Status: offline
If you want to learn about the textbook, then go to school. If you want to learn about the bible, then go to church. This is the meaning of separation of church and state.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wikipedia

Separation of church and state is a political and legal doctrine that government and religious institutions are to be kept separate and independent from each other. The term most often refers to the combination of two principles: secularity of government and freedom of religious exercise. The modern concept often credited to the writings of English philosopher John Locke, the phrase separation of church and state is generally traced to the letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists, in which he referred to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as creating a "wall of separation" between church and state. The phrase was then quoted by the United States Supreme Court first in 1878, and then in a series of cases starting in 1948. This led to increased popular and political discussion of the concept.
Post #: 10
RE: a new reformation - 7/14/2009 7:51:27 AM   
sen10tious


Posts: 233
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RJR_fan

FWIW, I believe that the contemporary home schooling movement in America is a reformation. God's Word applied to an area of life that had been permitted to go adrift for way too long.

FWIW, I believe that was true in the 1980s.
It is not true of the virtual online charter schools that state governments are setting up right and left. These public schools come right into the home now.

Muslims are entering homeschooling at increasing rates.

New Agers are embracing the freedoms of home education by modifying the old Charlotte Mason principles and converting them to the Waldorf method.

I believe that the NEW contemporary home schooling movement in America is becoming materialistic and promotes the self-interest of keeping kids from being held back by the old teach-to-the-middle public schools.

_____________________________

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Post #: 11
RE: a new reformation - 7/14/2009 8:54:19 AM   
RJR_fan

 

Posts: 1168
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
Status: offline
quote:

Tom, I fail to see a connection between homeschooling and a revival. Trying to make a connection between the two is bit of a stretch.


I've been inside "revival" -- and it was an exhilarating "Narnia moment," a chunk of life set apart from the usual flow of time. Then, it was over, and the world seemed to move along unchanged. Except for the new paradigm embraced by churches for their worship services. (see this post)

OTOH, Christians who home school testify to God's lavish grace that empowers and ennobles their families in beautiful ways. The children emerging from the output end of the process want to raise their own kids the same way -- and more than 2/3 of them also go into business for themselves. God is at work, transforming lives, characters, and destinies in an amazing way. A new generation is rising up, with fewer internal conflicts and a more consistent worldview, than their parents experienced. God is at work, and this world will never be the same.

We are inside a miracle. God is at work. Rejoice!

_____________________________

Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
Post #: 12
RE: a new reformation - 7/14/2009 9:18:45 AM   
Consecrated2God


Posts: 4932
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
Status: offline
It's not really "new" anymore, since it started a generation ago, but as a second generation homeschooler I do think it was a reformation of sorts. Now it's just another educational option.

I believe that many, if not most homeschoolers still point to Deuteronomy 11:19. Teach them to your children, talking about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Religious instruction and academic instruction go hand in hand, not separated from each other, but integrated into every part of our lives. But I'm not sure if it's the primary reason most people homsechool anymore. Even my husband's mother's primary reason for homeschooling him was the quality of education received. She felt she could do a better job.a

As a second generation homeschooler, sometimes I have to think about my own reasons for homeschooling. To me, it's not really a reformation, it was the way I was raised. I homeschool my kids for the same reasons a lot of people public school their children--it's the default option. It's the way I was raised. It's what I'm familiar with and what I know, and it worked for me.

_____________________________

"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
Post #: 13
RE: a new reformation - 7/14/2009 10:23:22 AM   
Johnny_

 

Posts: 765
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
Status: offline
I don't get it. What does homeschooling have to do with a revival? I fail to see the connection. Is Deuteronomy 11:19 referring to a Christian revival?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wikipedia

Homeschooling or homeschool (also called home education or home learning) is the education of children at home, typically by parents but sometimes by tutors, rather than in a formal setting of public or private school. Although prior to the introduction of compulsory school attendance laws, most childhood education occurred within the family or community, homeschooling in the modern sense is an alternative in developed countries to formal education. Homeschooling is a legal option in many places for parents to provide their children with a learning environment as an alternative to publicly-provided schools. Parents cite numerous reasons as motivations to home school, including better academic test results, poor public school environment, improved character/morality development, and objections to what is taught locally in public school. It is also an alternative for families living in isolated rural locations or living temporarily abroad. Homeschooling may also refer to instruction in the home under the supervision of correspondence schools or umbrella schools. In some places, an approved curriculum is legally required if children are to be home-schooled. A curriculum-free philosophy of homeschooling may be called unschooling, a term coined in 1977 by American educator John Holt in his magazine Growing Without Schooling.
Post #: 14
RE: a new reformation - 7/14/2009 10:38:41 AM   
shadowspring


Posts: 619
Joined: 5/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Deuteronomy 6:4-9
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. [a] 5 Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 9 Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.


These scriptures are the foundation of my parenting and family life. Home schooling makes the application to our lives easier, but it is not the only way to obey these scriptures.

Even if my children went to public or private school, I would still get up with them, lie down with (at the same time) as them, travel down the road with them, and sit at home with them. I would still impress the commands of God on my children. I would still use scripture in art around the house as a reminder to practice the commands of God.

But I still would probably not tie them on my heads or bind them on my forehead, which I don't do now even though I home school.

Home schooling does not make a family holier or more loving or more righteous. We are made righteous by the blood of Christ. We are presented holy and blameless in the Father's sight by the sacrifice of Christ. All of our works of righteousness are as filthy rags. All.

_____________________________

"Blessed is the man...whose delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law meditates day and night. He will be like a tree planted by rivers of water..." from Psalm 1
Post #: 15
RE: a new reformation - 7/14/2009 10:39:52 AM   
Johnny_

 

Posts: 765
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
Status: offline
Just an FYI. I'm not against homeschooling. I respect everyone's choices and everyone's educational background. However, I don't think homeschooling is a revival.
Post #: 16
RE: a new reformation - 7/14/2009 11:41:56 AM   
RJR_fan

 

Posts: 1168
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
Status: offline
quote:

What does homeschooling have to do with a revival?


If an amazing, creative, and supernatural challenge to a nation's state church doesn't count as a reformation, then what does?

Note, please, the word "reformation." Revivals come and go, and typically last a few months at most. Reformations make permanent changes in the cultural landscape. It takes a century or so for a reformation to work out and implement its new insights. And the world is never the same.

_____________________________

Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
Post #: 17
RE: a new reformation - 7/14/2009 11:47:24 AM   
cynthia


Posts: 7008
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Johnny_

If you want to learn about the textbook, then go to school. If you want to learn about the bible, then go to church. This is the meaning of separation of church and state.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wikipedia

Separation of church and state is a political and legal doctrine that government and religious institutions are to be kept separate and independent from each other. The term most often refers to the combination of two principles: secularity of government and freedom of religious exercise. The modern concept often credited to the writings of English philosopher John Locke, the phrase separation of church and state is generally traced to the letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists, in which he referred to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as creating a "wall of separation" between church and state. The phrase was then quoted by the United States Supreme Court first in 1878, and then in a series of cases starting in 1948. This led to increased popular and political discussion of the concept.



This is the homeschool folder. We don’t send out children to school. We educate them at home, so what you wrote doesn’t make any sense here.

According to the Bible, educating their children is the responsibility of the parent. Homeschooling has nothing to do with separating church and government. The whole post quoted above makes no sense to me as I don’t send my children to school to learn academics or Bible, so there is need to separate the two. The Bible is the foundation of their academic education. We do not separate our relationship with the Lord as a compartment in our lives. We integrate biblical teaching into pretty much everything we do and certainly into our school subjects.

I am not interested in giving my children a secular education and separating God from His creation in the minds of my children. My children are getting a thoroughly Christian education. I know people who send their children to public school, then spend time trying to reintegrate academics they learn at school with biblical truth. It is really time consuming. They are doing a great job of it, but it’s a lot harder than simply not separating them to begin with.

This is the homeschool folder, so any separation between church and government does not apply here.

When education is not at school, but at home and part of mentoring and discipleship, it is about building children and helping them to grow in knowledge, understanding and wisdom based on their personal relationships with the Lord. Not all homeschoolers are like that, but we do have that opportunity when we homeschool. We can raise up our children in the Lord while preparing them to be healthy, productive adults. This can certainly be a part of a great movement within the church, but it’s not corporate. It is one family at a time. True reform takes place one person at a time and as each person impacts the lives of another it grows. When parents come together and then disciple their children and reach out to others, it can become a movement. Not a homeschooling movement per se, but a movement towards Christian education and building foundations in children to prepare them to walk in Truth and impact the world around them.

Despite the fact that homeschooling has grown to include many more groups, I think there are still many homeschoolers who keep their children at home to give them a true Christian education mentored and inspired by their parents. The Lord often uses a remnant.

_____________________________

My husband and I have a motto:
We are the leader. We are one.
Post #: 18
RE: a new reformation - 7/14/2009 12:01:22 PM   
cynthia


Posts: 7008
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Johnny_

Just an FYI. I'm not against homeschooling. I respect everyone's choices and everyone's educational background. However, I don't think homeschooling is a revival.

Right. RJR_fan specifically stated reformation, not revival.

Homeschool can be a reformation. If Christian homeschoolers influence others and encourage change within the Church as a whole, a reformation can grow one family at a time until it permeates the Church and makes fundamental changes.

_____________________________

My husband and I have a motto:
We are the leader. We are one.
Post #: 19
RE: a new reformation - 7/14/2009 12:10:47 PM   
Johnny_

 

Posts: 765
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cynthia

This is the homeschool folder, so any separation between church and government does not apply here.


Totally agree. But I was responding to Judi and not the folder. Anyways, you are absolutely right, this topic doesn't belong here.


quote:

ORIGINAL: cynthia

Right. RJR_fan specifically stated reformation, not revival.


Oh I see. Thanks for the clarification.
Post #: 20
RE: a new reformation - 7/14/2009 12:15:23 PM   
RJR_fan

 

Posts: 1168
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
Status: offline
quote:

Homeschool can be a reformation. If Christian homeschoolers influence others and encourage change within the Church as a whole, a reformation can grow one family at a time until it permeates the Church and makes fundamental changes.


By George, I think she's got it!

How many people remember "Key 73?" This was a top-down project to evangelize America overnight -- or at least, in one year. Like so many such schemes, it made more of a quiet plop than a big splash. The landmark event of 1973 wasn't Key 73, but Roe v. Wade. Home schooling, OTOH, is a broad-based grass-roots generation-spanning event that evidences God's sovereign and wonderful work in touching families one by one. It's a God thing, not a centralized "crusade" driven by human charisma.

_____________________________

Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
Post #: 21
RE: a new reformation - 7/14/2009 12:21:25 PM   
Johnny_

 

Posts: 765
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
Status: offline
Tom, it's been fun chatting with you. Your a nice guy and very patient. We will talk again in another folder. Goodbye.
Post #: 22
RE: a new reformation - 7/14/2009 12:34:02 PM   
cynthia


Posts: 7008
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RJR_fan
Home schooling, OTOH, is a broad-based grass-roots generation-spanning event that evidences God's sovereign and wonderful work in touching families one by one. It's a God thing, not a centralized "crusade" driven by human charisma.

Right. It’s like 2 Chronicles 7:12-14
Then the Lord appeared to Solomon by night, and said to him: “I have heard your prayer, and have chosen this place for Myself as a house of sacrifice. When I shut up heaven and there is no rain, or command the locusts to devour the land, or send pestilence among My people, if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.”

Each person has to humble himself, pray and seek God’s face. These are individuals who each make this change. When a group of individuals are all doing this, God will move in a powerful way. When I read this scripture years ago, I purposed in my heart to humble myself before God, to pray and to seek His face. Since this time, I have shared this scripture and this process with other people who have also done this.

This is how we can build a reformation; begin with myself, spread to my family, influence my group, our community will be impacted, we can reach our nation. If we would each do this, there would be great changes in the Church which would lead to great changes within our land. Christians have separated Christian faith from academic education and this has had a profoundly negative impact on our nation and upon the Church. Many Christians are changing this one home at a time by reintegrating what ought not be separated in the first place, faith and academics.

_____________________________

My husband and I have a motto:
We are the leader. We are one.
Post #: 23
RE: a new reformation - 7/14/2009 8:42:07 PM   
sen10tious


Posts: 233
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RJR_fan

Home schooling, OTOH, is a broad-based grass-roots generation-spanning event that evidences God's sovereign and wonderful work in touching families ...


And THAT is key, even though generation-spanning and work in touching families is generally overlooked in media coverage. (Unless the family has a kid for every day of the week, in which case the emphasis becomes distorted with the logistics angle not the continuity.)

Western society does not put much value on the threading of the generations. Yet look what a major part of the Bible is concerned with genealogies! It pounds us with continuity of generations to the point of boredom, such that we often skip those portions of the Bible.

American expansion, first severing families with month-long voyages across the Atlantic and later pioneering to westward homesteads put stress on maintaining family continuity.
So we are seeing the beginnings of reformation of the family's proper position in the Kingdom in addition to the spiritual reformation you all have been talking about.

_____________________________

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Post #: 24
RE: a new reformation - 7/14/2009 9:52:52 PM   
RJR_fan

 

Posts: 1168
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
Status: offline
quote:

Yet look what a major part of the Bible is concerned with genealogies! It pounds us with continuity of generations to the point of boredom, such that we often skip those portions of the Bible.


Tell me about it. My One Year Bible just dragged me through I Chronicles!

_____________________________

Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
Post #: 25
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Life] >> Home Education Support >> a new reformation
Jump to post #:
Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Crosswalk Forums on Faith Community Network
  Forum Tools
Forums  | Register | Login

Photo Gallery |  Member List |  Search |  Calendars |  FAQ |  TOS |  Disclaimer |  Ticket List | 

Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5 ANSI