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Corrie was simply being a Christian following the law, love is the fulfillment of the law. Were the American Revolutionaries being loving towards the British?

Corrie was acting, as we need all do, as a citizen of heaven, where love is the governing authority. Our worldly rights, psychological needs, prosperity, and desires are not and should never be an issue.

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This has been my point all along. Love is the law we follow. Haven't you seen where I was going?
Corrie is a support for what I have been trying to drive home. If the authorities came for her, what do you think she would do? Shot them? No, she would go peacefully, she would submit to their authority. This is the "foolishness of God" I have been trying to emphasize. Utterly foolish for her to act that way but completely godly.

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How godly is it to gut a fellow Christian with a bayonet because he is wearing red?

What she did was selfless, she was other-centered in her actions. Were the American rebels being selfless?

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That you can equate this woman's actions with armed rebellion is a marvelous feat of mental engineering.

If you are actually saying that it was right and proper for Corrie to do what she did as a matter of conscience, then refusing military service as a matter of conscience is also right and proper.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

The purpose of the OP isn't to focus on Ten Boom herself, but on the conditions under which a Christian might resist government authorities.

Romans 13:1-4 says:

Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.

For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority ? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.

Corrie Ten Boom, long considered a Christian hero, obviously didn't submit to the authority of the de facto Nazi government that ruled the Netherlands after the invasion. She obviously resisted the laws which directed citizens to submit to the apprehension and confinement of Jews in the Netherlands; not only that, but she and her family developed elaborate plans and systems to evade enforcement of the law, as well as acting dishonestly by surreptitiously hiding her activities.

So, was she and others like her disobedient to Scripture, and if so, should she be seen not as a hero of the faith, but another rebel against it?

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ORIGINAL: PinkCarnations

Corrie tenBoom was a wonderful woman of God. If what she did was wrong, then what Daniel did was wrong as well.

The law of the land and the law of God often but heads. That is why we, as Christians, fight so hard to protect the unborn, sanctity of marriage, etc. God's law is more important than man's.

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Jhud, please listen to another voice, that of manhattan42, telling you how specious your arguments are. They do not make sense. you draw on anything and everything to make a point and we are trying to stay focused on Scripture.

The nonsensical question you asked me and keep asking thinking I am avoiding it: when did Britain get established by God? What?
Then later saying they broke from rome and so were not a governing authority. What?
Shadows cast from a hundred light sources; you come from no sure direction.

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Corrie Ten Boom, long considered a Christian hero, obviously didn't submit to the authority of the de facto Nazi government that ruled the Netherlands after the invasion

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ORIGINAL: SamsonUSA

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Corrie Ten Boom, long considered a Christian hero, obviously didn't submit to the authority of the de facto Nazi government that ruled the Netherlands after the invasion

How obedient were Moses and the children of Israel in their submission to the authority of Pharaoh during the Exodus?

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ORIGINAL: SamsonUSA

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Corrie Ten Boom, long considered a Christian hero, obviously didn't submit to the authority of the de facto Nazi government that ruled the Netherlands after the invasion

How obedient were Moses and the children of Israel in their submission to the authority of Pharaoh during the Exodus?

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This example does not make sense because it is non-parallel. Why would the Israelites submit to an authority which had granted them freedom from its authority? The Egyptians rescinded all authority and control over the Jews, granted them their freedom to leave Egypt, and to leave the governmental jurisdiction and control of the pharoahs and Egyptian regime. It makes little sense to think the Jews who left Egypt should have remained in submission in this context. You are comparing apples to oranges.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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This example does not make sense because it is non-parallel. Why would the Israelites submit to an authority which had granted them freedom from its authority? The Egyptians rescinded all authority and control over the Jews, granted them their freedom to leave Egypt, and to leave the governmental jurisdiction and control of the pharoahs and Egyptian regime. It makes little sense to think the Jews who left Egypt should have remained in submission in this context. You are comparing apples to oranges.

So that little incident when Pharoah was chasing down the Israelites and trapping them by the sea was them relinquishing their rights as authorities?

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Actually it was a foreign power trying to conquer an independent people. Prior to this Pharoah DID give the Israelites their freedom. Once the authority is relinquished it cannot be reimposed without the consent of the governed.

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Now it happened after many days that the word of the LORD came to Elijah in the third year, saying, "Go, show yourself to Ahab, and will send rain on the face of the earth."

So Elijah went to show himself to Ahab. Now the famine was severe in Samaria. Ahab called Obadiah who was over the household (Now Obadiah feared the LORD greatly; for when Jezebel destroyed the prophets of the LORD, Obadiah took a hundred prophets and hid them by fifties in a cave, and provided them with bread and water.)

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Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. "We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name," he said. "Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood."

Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men! The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel. We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

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So it seems that when looking at the whole counsel of the word of God, when we read in Romans that we must submit to our governing authority, there are times when looking at what that authority is telling us to do, we may come in direct conflict with what God's word tells us to do. (A modern day example here in the US is the case of protecting the unborn.) In those cases when the government is doing something that is in direct violation to God's word, we are to stand firm on what God tells us first. BUT when doing so knowing full well we may be put in jail or in the case of Corrie ten Boom, or at times be put to death under the authority of the government.

The word of God is very clear, we are to obey our governing authorities. But there are times when those directives are in direct violation to God's word, and in those times we have a choice to stand firm and follow God's word on the matter knowing full well that we ourselves may be punished for that action; or to remain silent. I am grateful that we have examples like Corrie and her family who were willing to pay the price to do the right thing.

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When they bang on your door and shout, "The British are coming, the British are coming," and you respond, "I'll make a fresh pot of tea," they are not amused, but God is.
For such action they will despise you, as they did Christ. Count it joy.
I pray we all live truly foolish lives.

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ORIGINAL: NotreDame

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ORIGINAL: SamsonUSA

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Corrie Ten Boom, long considered a Christian hero, obviously didn't submit to the authority of the de facto Nazi government that ruled the Netherlands after the invasion

How obedient were Moses and the children of Israel in their submission to the authority of Pharaoh during the Exodus?

This example does not make sense because it is non-parallel. Why would the Israelites submit to an authority which had granted them freedom from its authority? The Egyptians rescinded all authority and control over the Jews, granted them their freedom to leave Egypt, and to leave the governmental jurisdiction and control of the pharoahs and Egyptian regime. It makes little sense to think the Jews who left Egypt should have remained in submission in this context. You are comparing apples to oranges.

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ORIGINAL: agapist

For me, there is no way to equate selfless nonviolent behavior for the love of God and neighbor (in spirit) with violent self-interest for the sake of freedom and country (worldly). Oil and water: the will of God and the will of the people.

The wisdom and values that have been expressed by Jhud and manimal are fine and shared by most decent people--but they are not applicable to a discussion focused on spirit.

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As Christians, we are not of this world--and that is the ground for what I am saying.
We are citizens of heaven (actually and for real). Primary to Christ's whole message is that we are to live on earth as if in heaven

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Worldly values and conventional wisdom simply have no place in a discussion of spirit.

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Reason and logic will never get us to a place of understanding.
Love alone has the eys to see reality in its full dimensions, with the depth perception of the eternal. And there's the rub.

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Another problem I see is how some view the nature of love. This what I see:
Love is of God: that is the source of love. As God is love and love is of God it can never fail.
Love is the most severe discipline that can be followed, for love begins with this: "Take no thought for your life."
Love is other-centered, the self no longer resides in our own flesh.
Love does not care one wit about making our life on earth any easier, better, or safer. Life is not precious to love, only heaven is precious.
Love has no country or other earthly loyalties; obligations, yes, within the law, but no loyalties.
There are three types of love: 1) unconditional; 2) unconditional; 3) unconditional--and this finds various forms of expression, such as agape.
Love has no hierarchy of endearment, and this underscores the point about no earthly loyalties.
Love, as mentioned, is ruthless, caring only for the ultimate well being of our soul--its eternal, not its worldly, life; anything else is a carnal distraction.

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When they bang on your door and shout, "The British are coming, the British are coming," and you respond, "I'll make a fresh pot of tea," they are not amused, but God is.
For such action they will despise you, as they did Christ. Count it joy.
I pray we all live truly foolish lives.