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A Pastors Job and Duty? - 8/7/2009 5:26:40 PM
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7over6
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I am just wondering what the New Testament church example is of a correct Pastor. What are his duties, obligations, how does he fulfill them and what are his boundaries where he should stop and hand that thing off to another minister / office of the church.
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 8/7/2009 11:03:55 PM
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bolt.
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A "pastor" is not seen in the New Testament at all, except (I think) for in that list of gift-roles "...some to be evangelists... some to be shepherds-and-teachers" (which can be translated 'pastors'). That passage just mentions those two things (shepherd-ing others and teaching them) as the "duties" without any of the kind of specifics that you seem to be seeking.
In reality, the "pastor" role in our Churches is a workable and Biblically sound model for Church structure and leadership, but it is not one that is actually found directly described in any NT passage at all. (Some people consider Timothy to be a kind of proto-pastor... the beginning of that role -- but there's not really enough information, and he's never actually called a pastor... that I recall.)
The "pastor" role is an agreement between the people of a Church and an individual that they consider to be helpful to their Christian growth and respectable as a leader. When a group finds such a person, they then gather together some of their material wealth and relieve that individuals burden to earn the money they would ordinarily have to spend at least some of their time earning. Thus relieved of the need to be a wage earner, the pastor then would work to be of service and value to those who have shown their regard in this way.
As such, as an agreement between a group and an individual, there is not really a Biblical or ethical guide as to what things a pastor should or should not be undertaking. It's a negotiation. However, obviously, a pastor should not do so much that the gifts and calling of other people would be stifled... that would be an ethical guideline, since the Bible does give us the clear picture that a sound Church works by the significant contribution of many members.
There's also lots of information about both the significance of the teaching role, and the responsibilities of character and conduct for all leaders. This would be applicable to our current day pastors, but also to elders and other responsibility holders within the Church.
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 8/17/2009 2:08:19 AM
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Chrio
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Greetings in Jesus
quote:
Original: 7over6
I am just wondering what the New Testament church example is of a correct Pastor. What are his duties, obligations, how does he fulfill them and what are his boundaries where he should stop and hand that thing off to another minister / office of the church.
Whatever portion of the duties that may be delegated to other ministers or leaders of the church, the pastor is still responsible and will give an accounting for his shepherding.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bolt.
A "pastor" is not seen in the New Testament at all, except (I think) for in that list of gift-roles "...some to be evangelists... some to be shepherds-and-teachers" (which can be translated 'pastors').
To the contrary, the epistles to Timothy & Titus are instructions/encouragement to young pastors. Also, Peter's admonishment to the Elders in 1 Peter 5 is for pastors (who are also elders of the church).
Live Freely, Love Deeply, Laugh Loudly
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 8/17/2009 11:15:36 AM
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bolt.
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I am aware that many people consider Timothy (and Titus) to be the beginning of the role of "pastoring", and much of the advice to them and to other leaders (such as elders) is very useful to our current-day pastors.
However, much as there are commonalities between T&T and our idea of a pastor, there are also significant differences between the NT Church model and ours when it comes to leadership and pastoring... and there is certainly no reason to believe that Paul meant pastors when he wrote to elders. The role of elders is distinct from that of a pastor, and quite essential, with or without a pastor in the picture.
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 8/17/2009 7:21:02 PM
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7over6
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thanks jbearnolimits. So in our time this would equate to teaching the gospel to a congregation, counseling, check up on staff (accountability), having a vision for the church to be acted out by the ministries of that church, correction, discipline, and kicking out people?
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 8/17/2009 10:54:26 PM
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Gloryandgrace
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7 over 6
ahhhh the "correct pastor". Well, that means you will get about 1000 different job descriptions and every one of them will be right. Correct is subjective to the sheep. You will find about 500 contradictions within the 1000 job descriptions as well.
A biblical pastor, which is an elder, which is an overseer, which is a shepherd, which is a watchmen, which is a teacher, which is a sheep himself.
Dont let Bolt get you all garbled up, it takes more than signing up for an agreement to make a pastor. It takes a God-calling, an anointing from God to persevere with the flock of God, to love them when they fail and correct them when they need it and to tenderly guide them always. Its not a task for someone who "agrees" to work with a congregation. I can assure you no congregation will completely agree with the pastor on much of anything. Such agreement is purely abstract thinking and has nothing to do with the reality of sheep raising. If youre going to preach a biblical gospel, you will have enemies from the very first sermon. No agreement will withstand such carnal despising of God and his word. It takes a man who is called of God and knows it in his bones to re-enter the pulpit after they have emailed their gripes and defined your role for you, and then quoted numerous other books and sources for why you are deficient.
Pastors must love God supremely and love God's word supremely, otherwise they will never survive the trials of loving the flock of God sacrificially.
John
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 8/18/2009 4:49:13 AM
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Chrio
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Greetings in Jesus
quote:
... and there is certainly no reason to believe that Paul meant pastors when he wrote to elders. The role of elders is distinct from that of a pastor, and quite essential, with or without a pastor in the picture.
Absolutely false. You have not examined these positions in the original language. A pastor first of all is the lead elder (team captain if you will) as Paul instructed to appoint elders in all cities. The pastor is to make these appointments. The elders come along side the pastor to oversee the well-being of the flock. God would not leave His shepherds w/o direction for providing for His sheep.
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 8/18/2009 9:33:21 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbearnolimits
A pastors job is to lead the flock... feeding them and being a guide. A pastors job is NOT to "lord over them."
How about expanding on your definition of "Lord over them"?
Thanks
RC
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 8/18/2009 12:35:59 PM
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godzgyrl05
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: jbearnolimits
A pastors job is to lead the flock... feeding them and being a guide. A pastors job is NOT to "lord over them."
How about expanding on your definition of "Lord over them"?
Thanks
RC
The post actually reads "A pastors job is NOT to "lord over them." not "Lord over them." Jesus is the only Lord
IMO, I think the post is saying that some "pastors" have the tendency to take on the "ownership" of the flock. I personally
feel that they need to have the attitude of Moses, Numbers 11:12 Have I conceived all this people? have I begotten them, that thou shouldest say unto me, Carry them in thy bosom, as a nursing father beareth the sucking child, unto the land which thou swarest unto their fathers?
A Pastor's duty is to lead and teach others how to develop their own personal relationship with God. The difference today as oppose to the children
of Israel, God only spoke through Moses, and Moses had enough sense to know that they were NOT his people.
Every believer today has the wonderful priviledge to be filled with the Spirit of God, so that we can hear and know his voice. John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:"
God has always appointed leaders to give direction,... NOT to lord, or Lord over His children.
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 8/18/2009 3:40:46 PM
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jbearnolimits
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I guess I should explain a little bit more. The pastor is a Shepard who tends to the flock. It is his job to confront the wolf. It is his job to lead the sheep to water. But it isn’t his job to make sure the sheep drink!
Matthew 20:25-28
25But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: 28Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
2 Corinthians 10:8
8For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:
Titus 2:15
15These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
Do you mind if I tell you what things these are?
1But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
2That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
3The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
6Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.
7In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
8Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.
9Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;
10Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.
11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
A pastor is given authority to preach and teach the word of God. This is his whole task, he leads by pointing to Christ. People follow Christ when they follow a pastor with a heart after God.
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 8/18/2009 4:17:09 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: godzgyrl05
A Pastor's duty is to lead and teach others how to develop their own personal relationship with God.
(Tit 1:13) This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
(2Ti 4:2) Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
jbearnolimits makes some good points; do you think that a Pastor should rebuke and correct those under his care?
Scripture tell the folks to do what the leadership tells them to do;
(Heb 13:17) Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
That verse also shows the gravity of the duties of the Leaders; that they must give account for those under thier care.
What is a Pastor's job and duty, other than teach and lead in doctrine, study what a shepherd does and you will see.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 8/18/2009 8:09:33 PM
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jbearnolimits
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
do you think that a Pastor should rebuke and correct those under his care?
I love what David said about God who is our Great Shepherd.
"Your rod and your staff they comfort me."
A shepherd used the rod to beat the wolf and the staff has a hook to pull the sheep to safe ground. Some do get it backwards I think and use the rod on the sheep. Although the bible does say at times you SHOULD use that rod.
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 8/19/2009 7:55:27 AM
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buckifn
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A Pastor is called to preach the Word, in season and out of season. He is called to have a committed relationship with the Lord Jesus and allow the Holy Spirit to lead, guide, and teach him so he will then be able to lead, guide, and teach others.
I don't think a Pastor's job is "kicking someone out". There are Biblical steps if one is unruly in the church and those steps are to be carried out by a team of leader's in ministry, not one individual.
Our church functions the same when the pastor is there as well as when he isn't.
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 9/16/2009 8:03:59 PM
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davelinde
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Chrio
quote:
The role of elders is distinct from that of a pastor, and quite essential
Absolutely false. You have not examined these positions in the original language. A pastor first of all is the lead elder (team captain if you will)
never found that one... throw me a few scriptures or Strong's numbers that do ANYTHING like defining a pastor as the leader of the elders, no need to expound, just point me the Biblical source you examined to draw this conclusion.
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 9/16/2009 8:53:22 PM
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AndyBern
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"Pastor" is just another word for shepherd. So, according to 1 Peter 5:1ff, elders are also pastors, because they are told to "shepherd the flock of God".
For a good job description of a pastor, study Ezekiel 34. Preaching is only a part of a pastor's job. A pastor's overall job is to seek the welfare of God's flock, which includes feeding them, seeking the lost, healing the sick, protecting them from predators, etc.
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 9/17/2009 10:47:15 AM
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mysteryofgospel
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How does one rebuke, with all longsuffering? It would seem these two words, rebuke and longsuffering, are contradictory. If you rebuke you can't be longsuffering. So which is it?
True story. Man comes to church this past Sunday and during the service his phone rings, which he proceeds to answer where he sits, to tell the caller he is in church and can't talk.
Do you rebuke or do you longsuffer? I chose to say nothing. How would you handle this as a Pastor's job and duty?
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 9/17/2009 12:03:26 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mysteryofgospel
How does one rebuke, with all longsuffering? It would seem these two words, rebuke and longsuffering, are contradictory. If you rebuke you can't be longsuffering. So which is it?
True story. Man comes to church this past Sunday and during the service his phone rings, which he proceeds to answer where he sits, to tell the caller he is in church and can't talk.
Do you rebuke or do you longsuffer? I chose to say nothing. How would you handle this as a Pastor's job and duty?
Well I had a congregant's phone ring a couple of Sundays past. The ringtone was a very loud hip hop beat of some type. The phone was in her purse and took a bit before she could turn it off. Did I rebuke her?
I just broke into an old man's version of break dancing. Everyone laughed, the lady was extreemely embarrassed and apologetic. I just said "Be blessed Marla", and continued my sermon.
I seriously doubt that she will ever leave her phone in ring mode during the service again.
Thanks
RC
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Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 9/17/2009 12:04:15 PM
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ChristopherJ007
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A pastor is one of the five-fold ministry mentioned in Ephesians 4:11 - gifts from Jesus to the church. A very simple and basic definition of the five different church leadership ministries:
Apostle - 'sent-one' - to establish new works, etc.
Prophet - one who speaks & declares God's Word to the people to build them up
Evangelist - one who shares the Gospel with the lost in such a way that they come to Christ
Pastor - one who shepherds, feeds, leads, guides and cares for the church
Teacher - one who disciples, teaches and help the church to grow through the ministry of the Word.
Many churches believe that the apostles and prophets were only first century ministries, but that is debated today...
However, most churches all agree that the pastor, teacher and evangelist are all needed:
"for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head--Christ-- from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love." (Eph. 4:11-16).
Some would also argue that the pastor and teacher are actually only one gift, and regardless of whether you see it as one or two different ministry callings, those called to pastor the church are definitely called to be 'apt to teach' as Paul encouraged the young pastor Timothy.
I love the ministry of the pastor, and although I am surely biased (being in pastoral ministry), I have been so blessed in my 20 years of following Jesus by this ministry gift in the church. Of the four churches I attended during that time (one of which I am currently pastoring myself), I only had one negative experience with a pastor who didn't have a pastoral gifting (if anything, he was an evangelist), but I didn't allow that to taint my love and appreciation and honour for this gifting in the church. It's true that there are those who are in the ministry for the wrong reasons, but there are also so many wonderful men and women called to shepherd the flock of God who are pastors after God's own heart, who love and care for their congregations. As you can see - this is one of my passions!
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 9/17/2009 12:06:08 PM
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ChristopherJ007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Well I had a congregant's phone ring a couple of Sundays past. The ringtone was a very loud hip hop beat of some type. Did I rebuke her?
I just broke into an old man's version of break dancing. Everyone laughed, the lady was extreemely embarrassed and apologetic. I just said be blessed Marla, and continued my sermon.
I seriously doubt that she will ever leave her phone in ring mode during the service again.
Thanks
RC
Right on RC, thanks for that post... I have had a cell phone ring during the Sunday morning message as well, and I will usually respond with humour, "You better answer that, it might be important", rather than with a strong rebuke. I think you are right that after someone accidentally leaves their phone on in the service, it won't happen again... :)
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 10/5/2009 2:17:48 AM
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Chrio
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From: INLAND EMPIRE, CA.
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Greetings in Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: davelinde
never found that one... throw me a few scriptures or Strong's numbers that do ANYTHING like defining a pastor as the leader of the elders, no need to expound, just point me the Biblical source you examined to draw this conclusion.
Sure: Book of Acts 14-28; Ephesians 4; 1 & 2 Timothy; Titus; 1 Peter 5.
Faith sees what ain't so, to be so, til it's so!
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 10/5/2009 10:01:20 AM
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jn1010lf
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Hello 7over6
You've raised question that could fill volumes. But consider the 34th chapter of Ezekiel. It's quite thought provoking.
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 10/7/2009 1:16:37 AM
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Chrio
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Greetings in Jesus
quote:
You've raised question that could fill volumes. But consider the 34th chapter of Ezekiel. It's quite thought provoking.
Jn1010lf, you are quite right, if it is accepted that Ez. 34 applies to pastors today.
Faith sees what ain't so, to be so, til it's so
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RE: A Pastors Job and Duty? - 10/7/2009 1:26:32 AM
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Lea_3
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A pastor's job is to faithfully and diligently preach the Truth of the Bible. Not act lukewarm and buttery because someone might get offended, but to respectfully reproach wrongdoing and un-Christian behaviors and lifestyle and point to the Bible and show why. You don't see that happen alot nowadays.
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