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RE: Anyone investing in Silver? - 9/8/2009 8:42:52 PM
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prophet
Posts: 689
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quote:
ORIGINAL: allisonbrett
Dave Ramsey suggests NEVER investing in precious metals. He explains his position very clearly and after evaluating it, I say I agree.
So, to answer your question, no I have no interest.
2002 gold was $250 silver was $2.50
2009 gold is $1,000 and silver is $16.60
never 'invest' in gold. its only a crsis hedge vs dollar demise.....
< Message edited by prophet -- 9/8/2009 8:50:44 PM >
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Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Anyone investing in Silver? - 9/13/2009 11:37:01 AM
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IamLibertarian
Posts: 380
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
quote:
ORIGINAL: allisonbrett
Dave Ramsey suggests NEVER investing in precious metals. He explains his position very clearly and after evaluating it, I say I agree.
So, to answer your question, no I have no interest.
2002 gold was $250 silver was $2.50
2009 gold is $1,000 and silver is $16.60
never 'invest' in gold. its only a crsis hedge vs dollar demise.....
I was about to post the same thing. Thank you.
Dave Ramsey is a fool - Peter Schiff is the truth (when it comes to investing/economics). Just youtube Peter SChiff and you will understand.
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RE: Anyone investing in Silver? - 9/13/2009 1:58:09 PM
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mrtigger
Posts: 272
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
quote:
ORIGINAL: allisonbrett
Dave Ramsey suggests NEVER investing in precious metals. He explains his position very clearly and after evaluating it, I say I agree.
So, to answer your question, no I have no interest.
2002 gold was $250 silver was $2.50
2009 gold is $1,000 and silver is $16.60
never 'invest' in gold. its only a crsis hedge vs dollar demise.....
Precious metals may look good over a specific, shorter time frame but over the long term, I think they perform poorly compared to other investments. Unlike stocks there is no dividends from them, there is no possibility of a increased profits/value due to improved technology and/or good business management,etc.. I learned that lesson in the 80's :(
I think they can be a good investment in a time of financial crisis (such as we are now). I have been considering buying some myself. But I'm not going to buy much and not as a long term investment. It's more as insurance against a doomsday scenario.
Up until recently, physical metal has been hard to find and dealer markups have been high.
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mr tigger
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RE: Anyone investing in Silver? - 9/13/2009 8:34:08 PM
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prophet
Posts: 689
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mrtigger
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
quote:
ORIGINAL: allisonbrett
Dave Ramsey suggests NEVER investing in precious metals. He explains his position very clearly and after evaluating it, I say I agree.
So, to answer your question, no I have no interest.
2002 gold was $250 silver was $2.50
2009 gold is $1,000 and silver is $16.60
never 'invest' in gold. its only a crsis hedge vs dollar demise.....
Precious metals may look good over a specific, shorter time frame but over the long term, I think they perform poorly compared to other investments. Unlike stocks there is no dividends from them, there is no possibility of a increased profits/value due to improved technology and/or good business management,etc.. I learned that lesson in the 80's :(
I think they can be a good investment in a time of financial crisis (such as we are now). I have been considering buying some myself. But I'm not going to buy much and not as a long term investment. It's more as insurance against a doomsday scenario.
Up until recently, physical metal has been hard to find and dealer markups have been high.
Stocks? What happened to stocks in the last few years? Gold is a manipulated asset by those who wants you to believe in a man made form of exchange called fiat, which is supposedly backed by gomen's promises! 
See how they printed and printed and got many of us in here deeper and deeper into debt?
No one can print gold and silver. They try to...in futures trading of the Pms. They failed lately when the prices of futures was lower than spot prices! Its all manipulation by the gomen and their financial cahoots.
In the end, there will be a winner created by the Lord- gold and silver as the biblical form of exchange.
You dont have to wonder why in every crsis, they become the accepted forms of exchange.
It wasnt doomsday when i bought in 2002 when gold was $250.
2003 $350
2004 $400
2005 $420
2006 $550
2007 $650
2008 $920
Its the demise of the dollar. You are right, no returns in gold. An ounce is an ounce....... 
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Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Anyone investing in Silver? - 9/14/2009 7:18:40 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2903
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tuckonline
Dave Ramsey is a fool - Peter Schiff is the truth (when it comes to investing/economics). Just youtube Peter SChiff and you will understand.
Peter Schiff always has the same message. IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD FOR THE US
That said, he doesn't make a lot of economic sense. He advocates both shorting the dollar and shorting US manufacturing. One would think that if the dollar decreases in value, manufacturers would do better because they get more money for their exports and can compete better.
If half of Peter Schiff's predictions are right, we should be buying US Hotels. If the other half are right, we should be buying dollars.
quote:
never 'invest' in gold. its only a crsis hedge vs dollar demise.....
I agree. Gold is an OK asset in moderation, but the only reason to really buy it is so that you can sleep at night. Try to make sure that less than 5% of your net worth is in gold.
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RE: Anyone investing in Silver? - 9/14/2009 8:39:12 PM
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prophet
Posts: 689
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
never 'invest' in gold. its only a crsis hedge vs dollar demise.....
I agree. Gold is an OK asset in moderation, but the only reason to really buy it is so that you can sleep at night. Try to make sure that less than 5% of your net worth is in gold.
5%? What do you do with the other 95%? put in worthless fiat?
In Crisis, IMO you should have at least 30 to 50% in precioous metals or commodities, especially when the crsis is the USD.
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Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Anyone investing in Silver? - 9/15/2009 2:25:17 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2903
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
5%? What do you do with the other 95%? put in worthless fiat?
How about pipelines? Utilities? TIPS? Inflation-indexed corporates? Swiss Francs? Canadian Dollars? Australian Dollars? There are plenty of places that will give you a return on your money. Gold does no increase in mass by 1%/year, but the swiss franc pays interest and is relatively stable.
There's plenty of defensive strategies out there that offer both inflation protection and crash protection AND an actual return.
quote:
In Crisis, IMO you should have at least 30 to 50% in precioous metals or commodities, especially when the crsis is the USD.
If you had 50% of your money in gold back in March at the peak of the crisis, you lost out on 50% in gains in the stock market over the past six months. Heck, I had most of my money in boring stuff like pipelines, utilities, energy, and miners and I made 50%.
Need gold to sleep at night? A little won't hurt. But gold barely keeps up with inflation. TIPS on the other hand, are currently guaranteed by the federal government to beat it by 2%. 5% of your net worth in gold is an OK way to diversify a conservative portfolio, but if you put much more in than that, you're cheating yourself of returns.
In any case, if the feds default on TIPS, I'm afraid that lead may be a better investment than gold. And the holders of TIPS will probably be happy that they don't have anything for people to kill them for.
And finally, gold is overvalued in a historical context. It typically keeps up with inflation, but it's done a lot more than that over the past decade. That doesn't mean it won't go higher until the secular bear bottoms out- it just means that in the very long run, it's better to buy gold when nobody's worried about the market rather than when everyone's worried about inflation, bankruptcy, and sovereign risk (as they are now.)
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 9/15/2009 2:39:36 AM >
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RE: Anyone investing in Silver? - 9/15/2009 11:25:43 PM
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prophet
Posts: 689
Joined: 4/19/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
How about pipelines? Utilities? TIPS? Inflation-indexed corporates? Swiss Francs? Canadian Dollars? Australian Dollars? There are plenty of places that will give you a return on your money. Gold does no increase in mass by 1%/year, but the swiss franc pays interest and is relatively stable.
There's plenty of defensive strategies out there that offer both inflation protection and crash protection AND an actual return.
Fiat is a sinful manmade manipulated form of exchange, designed primarily for manipulation by the central bankers. Why do you think USD is bankrupt?
1% a year. Did you see what i posted up there?
2003 $350
2004 $400
2005 $420
2006 $550
2007 $650
2008 $920
Thats an average of 27% per year from 03 to 08! Does your named instruments give you this much?
quote:
If you had 50% of your money in gold back in March at the peak of the crisis, you lost out on 50% in gains in the stock market over the past six months. Heck, I had most of my money in boring stuff like pipelines, utilities, energy, and miners and I made 50%.
Need gold to sleep at night? A little won't hurt. But gold barely keeps up with inflation. TIPS on the other hand, are currently guaranteed by the federal government to beat it by 2%. 5% of your net worth in gold is an OK way to diversify a conservative portfolio, but if you put much more in than that, you're cheating yourself of returns.
In any case, if the feds default on TIPS, I'm afraid that lead may be a better investment than gold. And the holders of TIPS will probably be happy that they don't have anything for people to kill them for.
And finally, gold is overvalued in a historical context. It typically keeps up with inflation, but it's done a lot more than that over the past decade. That doesn't mean it won't go higher until the secular bear bottoms out- it just means that in the very long run, it's better to buy gold when nobody's worried about the market rather than when everyone's worried about inflation, bankruptcy, and sovereign risk (as they are now.)
If you had gold since 03, AND sleep welll, you would have done 27% a year. If 2002 when it was $250, you would have av 37.5% to date!i can sleep welll with that! 
Gold overvalued? Think again! Inflation adjusted would have its value over $2000! If adjusted for the US debt, it would be over $10,000!. Many may ask why isnt it then?
Gold is an enemy of fiat, and therefore of central bankers. They have been suppressing gold price by paper gold in Comex, to no vail. If you study daily price movements the last few years, you will see manipulated suppression by again, use of fiat gold(paper gold), so much so that to buy physical gold, you have to pay very high premiums over spot gold prices!
However, suppression is failing.
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Anyone investing in Silver? - 9/16/2009 1:22:36 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2903
Joined: 10/12/2007
From: NYC by way of Chicago
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
Fiat is a sinful manmade manipulated form of exchange, designed primarily for manipulation by the central bankers. Why do you think USD is bankrupt?
1% a year. Did you see what i posted up there?
2003 $350
2004 $400
2005 $420
2006 $550
2007 $650
2008 $920
Thats an average of 27% per year from 03 to 08! Does your named instruments give you this much?
Now let's take a look at the past 30 years:
1980: $1000.
2009: $1050
Average annual rate of growth? ~0.2%
1980 DJIA: 1000
2009 DJIA: 9700
Average annual rate of growth? 8% plus dividends. (perhaps another 2%)
quote:
If you had gold since 03, AND sleep welll, you would have done 27% a year. If 2002 when it was $250, you would have av 37.5% to date!i can sleep welll with that!
Yes, but if you had held gold since 1980 or even 1995, you'd be singing a different tune.
quote:
Gold is an enemy of fiat, and therefore of central bankers. They have been suppressing gold price by paper gold in Comex, to no vail.
That assertion makes absolutely no sense. Gold is what central bankers buy when people don't have faith in the currency. It's actually a vicious cycle for the central bank; buying high and selling low.
quote:
If you study daily price movements the last few years, you will see manipulated suppression by again, use of fiat gold(paper gold), so much so that to buy physical gold, you have to pay very high premiums over spot gold prices!
However, suppression is failing.
Uhoh, now that you've told the secret of the evil central bankers, they are going to have to send the black security vans after you.
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RE: Anyone investing in Silver? - 9/16/2009 7:50:35 PM
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prophet
Posts: 689
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
Fiat is a sinful manmade manipulated form of exchange, designed primarily for manipulation by the central bankers. Why do you think USD is bankrupt?
1% a year. Did you see what i posted up there?
2003 $350
2004 $400
2005 $420
2006 $550
2007 $650
2008 $920
Thats an average of 27% per year from 03 to 08! Does your named instruments give you this much?
Now let's take a look at the past 30 years:
1980: $1000.
2009: $1050
Average annual rate of growth? ~0.2%
1980 DJIA: 1000
2009 DJIA: 9700
Average annual rate of growth? 8% plus dividends. (perhaps another 2%)
Why not take it from 1968 when they tied gold at the ankles.....
!968 $35
2009 $1050
Av annual rate of growth, no dividends 73%
Dow Jones 1968 $980
2009 $9800
Av annual rate of growth 24%
quote:
If you had gold since 03, AND sleep welll, you would have done 27% a year. If 2002 when it was $250, you would have av 37.5% to date!i can sleep welll with that!
quote:
Yes, but if you had held gold since 1980 or even 1995, you'd be singing a different tune.
lotsa of Ifsss....
quote:
Gold is an enemy of fiat, and therefore of central bankers. They have been suppressing gold price by paper gold in Comex, to no vail.
quote:
That assertion makes absolutely no sense. Gold is what central bankers buy when people don't have faith in the currency. It's actually a vicious cycle for the central bank; buying high and selling low.
makes a lot of manipulative sense.....paper fiat can be created to manipulate the populations, Gold cant. Central Bankers (CB) can print fiat, cant print gold. Why did you think they took the gold standard off.
Who created gold? God, not man.
Nest, whys gold in fort knox never audited? Did you know they leased out gold to bankers at verylow rates?
These were used in turn to short gold and control the prices.
Go and ask your rep to audit the gold in F Knox.
quote:
If you study daily price movements the last few years, you will see manipulated suppression by again, use of fiat gold(paper gold), so much so that to buy physical gold, you have to pay very high premiums over spot gold prices!
However, suppression is failing.
quote:
Uhoh, now that you've told the secret of the evil central bankers, they are going to have to send the black security vans after you.
i am in some where in the world and i am not depending on fiat. Ever wondered why in crisis, mankind turn back to GOLD?
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Anyone investing in Silver? - 9/16/2009 7:54:36 PM
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prophet
Posts: 689
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http://www.silverbearcafe.com/privat.../goldback.html
World to America: We Want Our Gold Back
Robert Morley
It is not just China that is attacking the Anglo-Saxon financial system.
The world is preparing to abandon the U.S. dollar and the UK pound. Pronouncements from Hong Kong, the United Arab Emirates, Switzerland and Germany have made clear that the Anglo-Saxon financial system's doom is only a matter of time.
A huge announcement out of Hong Kong rattled the financial world on September 3. Although big media relegated the story to the back pages, it should have been front and center! What's the news? China is demanding its gold back.
"Hong Kong is pulling all its physical gold holdings from depositories in London," reported MarketWatch (emphasis mine throughout).
The announcement, coming in the midst of the global economic crisis, is sending a clear signal: Britain is in far worse economic shape than generally realized, and China thinks it needs to get its gold out while it can - before something happens to it. Gold closed at a new record high of $1,006 per ounce on Friday.
Governments have a notorious history of confiscating precious metal reserves during times of crisis - even in America. In 1933, in order to stabilize the monetary system, President Franklin D. Roosevelt issued an executive order confiscating all privately owned gold in the United States. Later, in 1968, President Johnson issued a proclamation that all Federal Reserve Silver Certificates were merely fiat legal tender and could not be redeemed in silver. Then in 1971, the U.S. government closed the gold window completely and declared that foreign nations would no longer be allowed to exchange U.S. dollars for the gold that was supposedly backing them.
But China's decision to demand its gold back is more than just a vote of no-confidence against the pound. It is a direct challenge to the whole global Anglo-Saxon-dominated financial system.
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Anyone investing in Silver? - 9/17/2009 5:24:12 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2903
Joined: 10/12/2007
From: NYC by way of Chicago
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quote:
!968 $35
2009 $1050
Av annual rate of growth, no dividends 73%
Actually, that would be an average annual growth rate of (1050/35)^(1/41)=about 9%.
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
Dow Jones 1968 $980
2009 $9800
Av annual rate of growth 24%
You're not using compound interest. Actually, the average rate of growth was about (9800/980)^(1/41) or 6%- plus maybe an average another 3% from dividends. (Dividends were higher in the '60s and '70s than the '80s through today.) In other words, if you took the stock dividends and reinvested them, you'd have as much money as if you'd put your money into gold. The only difference, however, is that in 1960, gold was still at $35 but the DJIA was at 500. The market tends to go in 35 year cycles with about half in inflationary/bear markets and half in years with bull markets. You''re counting 15 years of inflationary/bear markets (1968-1983), 17 years of bull markets (1983-2000), and nine years of bear markets (2000-2009). In other words, you've got 50% more years where gold is supposed to outperform than stocks do, yet you can only break even. If we were to go back to 1960, that would be a fairer comparison- and in that case, equities clearly trump gold.
Also, over the past 70 years, equities have never lost more than 60% of their value from the peak. Gold, on the other hand, has lost nearly 80% of its value from its peaks.
Gold is a risky, poorly performing, but also counter-cyclical investment. That's why it doesn't deserve to make up more than 5% of your portfolio.
quote:
lotsa of Ifsss....
But they're less iffy than your ifs. Over any 35 year cycle, stocks offer greater returns with less risk and if we have an equal number of bear and bull market years, unless you're comparing an anomaly like 1929-1933, stock almost always outperforms gold.
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RE: Anyone investing in Silver? - 9/22/2009 10:21:21 PM
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prophet
Posts: 689
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
!968 $35
2009 $1050
Av annual rate of growth, no dividends 73%
Actually, that would be an average annual growth rate of (1050/35)^(1/41)=about 9%.
That, we call annualised rate or compounded rate. The avearge is just total returns divivded by the number of years.
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
Dow Jones 1968 $980
2009 $9800
Av annual rate of growth 24%
quote:
You're not using compound interest. Actually, the average rate of growth was about (9800/980)^(1/41) or 6%- plus maybe an average another 3% from dividends. (Dividends were higher in the '60s and '70s than the '80s through today.) In other words, if you took the stock dividends and reinvested them, you'd have as much money as if you'd put your money into gold. The only difference, however, is that in 1960, gold was still at $35 but the DJIA was at 500. The market tends to go in 35 year cycles with about half in inflationary/bear markets and half in years with bull markets. You''re counting 15 years of inflationary/bear markets (1968-1983), 17 years of bull markets (1983-2000), and nine years of bear markets (2000-2009). In other words, you've got 50% more years where gold is supposed to outperform than stocks do, yet you can only break even. If we were to go back to 1960, that would be a fairer comparison- and in that case, equities clearly trump gold.
You can only compare where theres data and not pick and chose. Gold from $35 would be a good point to start. On the 35 year thingy, IMO we have not seen the end of winter for the markets yet.....it will get colder.
quote:
Gold is a risky, poorly performing, but also counter-cyclical investment. That's why it doesn't deserve to make up more than 5% of your portfolio.
Risky only for those short term traders.
quote:
lotsa of Ifsss....
But they're less iffy than your ifs. Over any 35 year cycle, stocks offer greater returns with less risk and if we have an equal number of bear and bull market years, unless you're comparing an anomaly like 1929-1933, stock almost always outperforms gold.
Anomalies are only that because history is short. We have another one knockin on the door. Plus, do you really believe the spin of your media/politicians/CBs/FedChair?
Ask a person who have invested in lehman about risks.....in the stock market 
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Anyone investing in Silver? - 9/23/2009 12:24:28 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2903
Joined: 10/12/2007
From: NYC by way of Chicago
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
You can only compare where theres data and not pick and chose. Gold from $35 would be a good point to start. On the 35 year thingy, IMO we have not seen the end of winter for the markets yet.....it will get colder.
Well, the markets could get a little worse, but if you own TIPS, you don't care. You're getting your coupons and an inflation adjustment so your purchasing power stays the same.
If the federal government goes bankrupt, it's better to own worthless TIPS than gold, because people won't kill you for your worthless paper.
quote:
quote:
Gold is a risky, poorly performing, but also counter-cyclical investment. That's why it doesn't deserve to make up more than 5% of your portfolio.
Risky only for those short term traders.
If you consider a 20-year 75% decline in price and 85% decline in purchasing power "risky only for short-term traders", you have a rather glacial time horizon.
My definition of short-term trading is anything under one month; most people see it as under one year; very few people see it as lasting 20 years.
quote:
Anomalies are only that because history is short. We have another one knockin on the door. Plus, do you really believe the spin of your media/politicians/CBs/FedChair?
Ask a person who have invested in lehman about risks.....in the stock market
Lehman was never considered a safe investment- nor was any other investment bank. They all had leverage ratios of 25:1 or more. Compare that with an oil company, though, and you're looking at a leverage ratio of 2:1 or maybe 2.5:1 for a European oil major. A more conservative REIT will have a leverage ratio of 3:1 when most homeowners are more leveraged.
If you absolutely distrust the currency and the markets, farmland or a private island in the Great Lakes is going to be a better and more practical investment than gold.
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 9/23/2009 12:37:22 PM >
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RE: Anyone investing in Silver? - 9/23/2009 10:37:49 PM
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prophet
Posts: 689
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
You can only compare where theres data and not pick and chose. Gold from $35 would be a good point to start. On the 35 year thingy, IMO we have not seen the end of winter for the markets yet.....it will get colder.
Well, the markets could get a little worse, but if you own TIPS, you don't care. You're getting your coupons and an inflation adjustment so your purchasing power stays the same.
If the federal government goes bankrupt, it's better to own worthless TIPS than gold, because people won't kill you for your worthless paper. .
Whoa! Good one! Can you enlighten me on TIPS? With gold i could go anywhere in the world and exchange ....AND if anywhere in the world, i still get killed then the end is probably very near....Trust in the Lord!
quote:
quote:
Gold is a risky, poorly performing, but also counter-cyclical investment. That's why it doesn't deserve to make up more than 5% of your portfolio.
Risky only for those short term traders.
If you consider a 20-year 75% decline in price and 85% decline in purchasing power "risky only for short-term traders", you have a rather glacial time horizon.
quote:
My definition of short-term trading is anything under one month; most people see it as under one year; very few people see it as lasting 20 years.
Very few cos they dont understand gold. IMO gold will probably not see anything below $600 again after ....similar to when it went to $800, it finally settled at $250...
quote:
Anomalies are only that because history is short. We have another one knockin on the door. Plus, do you really believe the spin of your media/politicians/CBs/FedChair?
Ask a person who have invested in lehman about risks.....in the stock market
quote:
Lehman was never considered a safe investment- nor was any other investment bank. They all had leverage ratios of 25:1 or more. Compare that with an oil company, though, and you're looking at a leverage ratio of 2:1 or maybe 2.5:1 for a European oil major. A more conservative REIT will have a leverage ratio of 3:1 when most homeowners are more leveraged.
Nor is Goldman S, JPM but they all get help when they fail. Thats where it hurts joe public.
quote:
If you absolutely distrust the currency and the markets, farmland or a private island in the Great Lakes is going to be a better and more practical investment than gold.
Yes....but you need some liquidity....gold provides that....also that you cant take yer land with you when
pooh happens!
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Anyone investing in Silver? - 9/24/2009 9:34:59 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2903
Joined: 10/12/2007
From: NYC by way of Chicago
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
Whoa! Good one! Can you enlighten me on TIPS? With gold i could go anywhere in the world and exchange ....AND if anywhere in the world, i still get killed then the end is probably very near....Trust in the Lord!
If the federal government goes under, there will most likely be a domino effect. There might be a few countries whose governments survive, but how do you plan on getting there when someone has stolen all of the commercial jets? How do you plan on getting there before someone notices that you have a huge gold bar in your backpack?
Most likely, the federal government won't default. If it does, money will be the very least of your problems. And in that case, TIPS are a much safer investment than gold- and they're a lot more liquid than physical gold.
quote:
Yes....but you need some liquidity....gold provides that....also that you cant take yer land with you when
pooh happens!
Yes, but land is also a lot harder to steal or manufacture. And if the federal government defaults, something tells me that Beaver Island will protect your property rights better than your backpack.
Oh well, all of this is getting paranoid. If you're a conservative investor, buy TIPS. If you're a paranoid investor, buy a farm on Beaver Island. At least you'll get some rent. But gold pays no dividends and is extremely volatile- best not to put more than a small chunk of your portfolio into it.
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RE: Anyone investing in Silver? - 9/24/2009 7:35:15 PM
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prophet
Posts: 689
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
But gold pays no dividends and is extremely volatile
Everyone says that even when i bought it in 2002.
Look where i am now.......without dividend payments
2002................. USD250
2009................ USD1,000
Look ma.....no dividends!
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Anyone investing in Silver? - 9/24/2009 7:55:17 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2903
Joined: 10/12/2007
From: NYC by way of Chicago
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
Everyone says that even when i bought it in 2002.
Look where i am now.......without dividend payments
2002................. USD250
2009................ USD1,000
Look ma.....no dividends!
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
I did the same- actually better- with oil trusts over the same period. And that's before we talk about the 5-10% dividends. Commodities boomed, and gold was one of many commodities to gain value. But the oil trusts did better- and they suffered less during previous crashes. In fact, during the '08 crash, my biggest trust holding lost only 15% of its value.
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 9/24/2009 8:02:21 PM >
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RE: Anyone investing in Silver? - 9/25/2009 3:47:03 AM
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prophet
Posts: 689
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
Everyone says that even when i bought it in 2002.
Look where i am now.......without dividend payments
2002................. USD250
2009................ USD1,000
Look ma.....no dividends!
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
I did the same- actually better- with oil trusts over the same period. And that's before we talk about the 5-10% dividends. Commodities boomed, and gold was one of many commodities to gain value. But the oil trusts did better- and they suffered less during previous crashes. In fact, during the '08 crash, my biggest trust holding lost only 15% of its value.
Oil did very well from 1999 to 2009.
S & P -23%
DJ +5.7%
3 month T bill 38%
Real Estate 61%
Commodities 69%
Longterm Treasuries 115%
Gold 246%
Silver 230%
Oil 433.95%
Copper 320.4%
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Anyone investing in Silver? - 9/25/2009 1:43:30 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2903
Joined: 10/12/2007
From: NYC by way of Chicago
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
Oil did very well from 1999 to 2009.
S & P -23%
DJ +5.7%
3 month T bill 38%
Real Estate 61%
Commodities 69%
Longterm Treasuries 115%
Gold 246%
Silver 230%
Oil 433.95%
Copper 320.4%
See- I'm totally cool with making a diversified commodities portfolio as much as 40% of your portfolio- especially if there are inflation concerns. In fact, my portfolio is 35% commodities (in fact, 20% energy), and another 35% infrastructure. Commodities and infrastructure tend to perform better during the secular bear trends that we tend to get every 17 years. Gold, as one commodity, tends to do OK too, but the longer-term safety tends to be more in the commodities equities rather than actual commodities (which have to be stored and don't produce dividends.)
Infrastructure is another relatively safer bet that, IMHO, also offers inflation protection while also giving some diversification. It can include anything from utilities to pipelines to industrial materials to even apartment buildings. The best part is that people who hang onto an infrastructure/commodities equities portfolio for a 35 year cycle make out very well. Gold can outperform during a bear market and technology/finance/growth stocks outperform in a bull market, but the infrastructure/commodities equities tend to have a bit smoother returns relative to inflation than other investments.
And if for some odd reason, 1983 comes a few years sooner than we expect, that doesn't spell the same disaster for energy and infrastructure like it does for investments in gold.
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RE: Anyone investing in Silver? - 9/26/2009 10:18:39 PM
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IamLibertarian
Posts: 380
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: tuckonline
Dave Ramsey is a fool - Peter Schiff is the truth (when it comes to investing/economics). Just youtube Peter SChiff and you will understand.
Peter Schiff always has the same message. IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD FOR THE US
That said, he doesn't make a lot of economic sense. He advocates both shorting the dollar and shorting US manufacturing. One would think that if the dollar decreases in value, manufacturers would do better because they get more money for their exports and can compete better.
If half of Peter Schiff's predictions are right, we should be buying US Hotels. If the other half are right, we should be buying dollars.
That is not what Peter Schiff advocates....Please do your research before deafening the truth. If you would like to know what he advocates please let me know and I will explain it, but I wont bother if you do not want to hear it.
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