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Revelations - 9/6/2009 11:28:34 AM
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cornergas
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The second beast in Revelation and the woman riding the beast, what does this signify..usually a woman signifies a church..what church would this be?
God bless us all
Know the truth and it will set you free
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy.
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RE: Revelations - 9/6/2009 12:30:54 PM
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ta_mosquito
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Moved from The Bible to P&ET.
Thanks!
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RE: Revelations - 9/6/2009 1:03:31 PM
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bob97
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Wow...excellent question but with a very simple answer...maybe.
It is the church of compromise; the growing emergent Christian movement which is corrosive in nature to the true Church and can only be called an experimental approach to Christianity. Where we throw away the teaching of Gods word, suddenly saying that this teaching is obsolete and we need to move on. That it is alright to live a homosexual life style because it is Gods desire that we embrace all kinds of people from all walks of life. It is a church that says; because God tell us to love all humans that we should suddenly embrace the Muslim faith and reinvent a new church called Chrislam, which embraces both the Christian and Muslim faith into one teaching. It is a church of compromise that is willing to say that Christ was not the Son of God but a brilliant prophet that taught us to love all humanity.
It's a church that I want no part of.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Revelations - 9/6/2009 1:10:53 PM
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yohannan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cornergas
The second beast in Revelation and the woman riding the beast, what does this signify..usually a woman signifies a church..what church would this be?
God bless us all
Know the truth and it will set you free
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy.
This is culminated in the time period of the appearance of the false prophet false apostle called the beast from the earth or the son of perdition who implements the mark of the number of his name as a form of worship commerce upon the whole world and who has a covenant along with ten worldwide leaders who hate the prostitute and tear her apart partaking in unholy communion with her in the eating of her flesh as written.
This will last for 1335 days or 44 1/2 months and then the raptura event will come of the gathering of the Harvest fruits through the submission of the tabernacle to The Will of God even to Martyrdom, for many brave warriors there are among the home of the brave, from the ends of heaven and the four corners of the earth; and of those who remain on earth as written. Patient endurance to the faith is the calling of these times to come. For one knows that the patience of The Lord leads to salvation and diligence and patience is fruit that yields a crop in its season.
This trial is being called The Great Falling Away as people betray each other to gain advantage in the short term, for the troubles of the restricted commerce worship mark will include people having their families to be handed over to the authorities in denial and betrayal of the faith. Those who are among the followers of the false prophet in betrayal will endure the trumpets desolation decisions decrees in fulfillment of the feast of the trumpets Prophecy.
< Message edited by yohannan -- 9/6/2009 1:22:00 PM >
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RE: Revelations - 9/6/2009 1:22:18 PM
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cornergas
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Re-reading Chapter 17 v 9 refers to seven hills on which the woman sits? and v5 "Babylon the great, the mother os harlots and of the abominations of the earth..sounds like an existing institution?
God bless us all
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy
Know the truth and it will set you free.
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RE: Revelations - 9/6/2009 1:26:58 PM
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yohannan
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The kingdom of the lesser light of darkness ruled by the enemy is what The Lord showed us was to be struggled with concerning our salvation for did not The Lord cast out all kinds of dark evil powers and spirits when He came? And, does not He continue to advance His Kingdom in the cleaning of peoples who have faith in Him? For The Work of God is to believe in The One HE Sent.
For these principalities are like unto kings in the dark and fallen heavenly realm who have a time period assigned during the gentile nations rulerships for five had already come and fallen is written by the time of the Fulfillment of The Prophecy for Redemption.
At this time, as was coming, the completion time period of the principality of the seventh empire hill is at work in the spiritual realm.
Not by works of the flesh is written.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cornergas
Re-reading Chapter 17 v 9 refers to seven hills on which the woman sits? and v5 "Babylon the great, the mother os harlots and of the abominations of the earth..sounds like an existing institution?
God bless us all
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy
Know the truth and it will set you free.
< Message edited by yohannan -- 9/6/2009 1:33:24 PM >
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RE: Revelations - 9/6/2009 1:35:29 PM
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bob97
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quote:
Re-reading Chapter 17 v 9 refers to seven hills on which the woman sits?
Did you know that Jerusalem is built on seven hills and in the time of Chirst was known as the city on seven hills?
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Revelations - 9/6/2009 2:06:02 PM
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tsnody2001
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Yohannan, I would like to ask you for forgiveness for saying that your talk is nonsense. I was wrong for saying that. Please forgive me.
Back to the thread... Cornergas, it sounds like you are asking specific questions in a way that leads others in answering in a way that agrees with your preconceived idea. Is that the case? It sounds like you are trying to get others to say this sounds like the Catholic Church. That is just my observation from you questions. I could be wrong. But to answer your questions... from what i gather from the Scriptures, and from my study of history, I think it is pointing to the Catholic Church. But I also agree with Bob, that it also involves and includes all those who try to enter in through another gate other than Christ and following His teaching. So, in a way, I agree with everyone who has posted in this thread so far.
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Revelations - 9/6/2009 2:07:30 PM
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tsnody2001
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quote:
Did you know that Jerusalem is built on seven hills and in the time of Christ was known as the city on seven hills?
No, I did not know this. Where can I learn more about this?
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Revelations - 9/6/2009 2:40:35 PM
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bob97
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Here is one article tsnody...there are more.
The Seven Hills of Jerusalem
By Ernest L. Martin, Ph.D., 2000
Reformatted by David Sielaff
But strange as it may seem, the City of Jerusalem as it existed in the time of Christ Jesus was also reckoned to be the "City of Seven Hills." This fact was well recognized in Jewish circles. In the Pirke de-Rabbi Eliezer, an 8th century midrashic narrative (section 10), the writer mentioned without commentary (showing that the understanding was well known and required no defense) that "Jerusalem is situated on seven hills" (recorded in The Book of Legends, edited by Bialik and Ravnitzky, p. 371, paragraph 111). And, so it was. Those "seven hills" are easy to identify.
If one starts with the Mount of Olives just to the east of the main City of Jerusalem (but still reckoned to be located within the environs of Jerusalem), there are three summits to that Mount of Olives:
http://www.askelm.com/prophecy/p000201.htm
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Revelations - 9/6/2009 6:55:44 PM
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tsnody2001
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Thank you Bob. I'll do a little digging on my own.
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Revelations - 9/6/2009 8:05:10 PM
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cornergas
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TS Nody ...well it seems like it seems the Roman church, from the description, but I see some additional information from posts, which tend to lead in another direction..thank you for your information
God bless us all
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy
Know the truth and it will set you free.
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RE: Revelations - 9/6/2009 8:22:38 PM
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tsnody2001
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I have also read a lot and listened to bible teachers who indicate that America could be the second beast. Basically, according to their teachings, the Roman Church's power ended sometime in the late 1700's and America rose up on the scene around the same time. Now, to tie in Bob's post, America has in a way, caused the nations not only to follow the first beast (RCC), but every other diversion and "other" gate that is not Jesus.
Note: my date references are general. Also, I am not claiming to believe what I posted here, but am just throwing out the claims of others. Personally, I think very few people have a clue (or handle) on Revelation or bible prophecy as a whole.
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Revelations - 9/6/2009 9:15:52 PM
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bob97
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Personally I’m quite convinced that the false religion will be just a repackaged general religion believing in one god, as I said earlier a religion of compromise where all basic religions are encouraged to come together…over coming religious intolerance for the good of mankind.
You already have the beginning of an emphasis for this in the Alliances of Civilizations, which is an arm of the EU. It will be their job to discourage fundamental concepts of belief and to drive though varies means the merging of all religions into one. They have stated in their doctrine of operation that fundamentalist can and will be declared as terrors and dealt with by means of the law. The AoC arm includes a military police force for that very purpose. If you have difficulty in believing this, check out the mandate of the Alliances of Civilizations.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Revelations - 9/6/2009 9:20:45 PM
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bob97
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Here is a sample of what I'm talking about...
The Globalization of Tolerance
The Washington Post - Tony Blair (June 9, 2009)
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2009/06/faith_to_faith_face_to_face.html?hpid=talkbox1
Faith matters. Even if you are not of religious faith yourself. Over 4 billion people world-wide recognize themselves as religious. They may not attend an organized place of worship. But Faith plays a part in their lives. A recent poll found that religion is important for around 30-35% of people in Europe, 65% of Americans and for about 90% of people in most Muslim-majority countries.
In this world, if religious faith becomes a counter force to this process, one which pulls people apart, then it becomes reactionary and divisive. So if I define myself as a Christian in opposition to you as a Muslim, then just as we are forced to live together by globalization, so we are forced apart by a view of religious faith that is exclusionary and hostile to those of a different faith to our own.
Now we are adding a new dimension: an education program linking up schools across the globe and across the faith divide. Launching officially today is Face to Faith, the new global schools project from my Foundation, designed to encourage young people of different faiths to learn directly with, from and about each other. Through structured video-conferencing, an online community and a course syllabus, Face to Faith gets secondary school students from across the world working together, investigating big global issues; sharing their own opinions, values and beliefs; and exploring the reasons for similar and different views. In this way, Face to Faith encourages young people to recognize the similarities between faiths but also, importantly, to respect and deal with the differences between diverse and often conflicting worldviews, helping to equip them to live in a global society made up of different faiths and beliefs.
Christina says, 'For centuries, the aggression of our global societies have been threatened by religious conflicts. In no other way can we as educators guide our students towards peace than through dialogue, understanding and respect of all faiths on earth. My experience of the Face to Faith program has already given me invaluable knowledge of the challenges and triumphs of educators from various countries.'
The Tony Blair Faith Foundation is dedicated to achieving understanding, action and reconciliation between the different faiths for the common good. It is not about the faith that looks inward; but the faith that resolutely turns us towards each other. The new program I am launching today, Face to Faith, has started a global conversation about and between different religions; a true conversation between people despite differences. An increase in religious literacy must surely follow and, with it, a new generation committed to interfaith understanding and respect.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Revelations - 9/6/2009 10:11:29 PM
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tsnody2001
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quote:
If you have difficulty in believing this...
I don't disagree with you one bit. I think it was back in 2004 (well, even before that, back 2001 after 9/11) I read about several conferences where "Leaders" from just about every major religion you can think of met together to discuss coming to a common ground. We don't read about this in the media or see it on TV... and if you do, it is in some kind of feel-good story that makes you feel as if it is a good thing for humanity. Tolerance and diversity... unless you are a real Christian who believes Jesus is THE only way for peace... the only way to legitimately tear down the walls that divide us... the only way to bring true healing to the nations... That is absolutely intolerable.
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Revelations - 9/8/2009 10:04:41 AM
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cornergas
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In 2008 the Pope said Roman Catholic, is the only true Christian religion. On the basis of this, and it's large world wide membership, it seems to fit Revelation 17 as the church referred to..
Know the truth and it will set you free
God bless us all
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy.
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RE: Revelations - 9/8/2009 10:26:20 AM
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bob97
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cornergas...don't all religions say this? Some are even willing to kill to prove it.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Revelations - 9/8/2009 1:03:12 PM
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Retrobyter
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Shalom, Bob.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
cornergas...don't all religions say this? Some are even willing to kill to prove it.
Bob
Question (And, yes, this is a leading question): What do the heads and the horns of this beast upon which the woman sits represent?
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
_____________________________
Stick to the Scriptures! The minute you start to draw an analogy or explain what a Scripture means or give a particular view of theology, you've left the safety of Absolute Truth, and you're on your own!
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RE: Revelations - 9/8/2009 2:33:44 PM
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bob97
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Hi Roy...
If we go back to Dan 7 I think we would find that the beasts being discussed are kings and their kingdoms; therefore, both heads and horns refer to kingdoms arising from the seas of the peoples of the world.
Revelation 17:7 (KJV)
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
Revelation 17:10 (KJV)
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Revelation 17:12 (KJV)
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
So one of the seven heads is yet future and the ten horns, which are kings, are also future.
After much consideration, wrestling back and fourth between the EU and the Muslim Kingdoms, I think it is the EU who will bring forth the ten horns ruled led by the one head yet to come. I think Islam plays a key role but they are not the ones led by the man of sin.
Just my opinion...
In Messiah...
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Revelations - 9/8/2009 5:36:20 PM
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SonicStudent
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Yet again Bobby boy, I agree with your analysis here. It's clear to me that the work is already being done by the west to weaken Islamic nations. The governing powers justify their entering Muslim nations to their own civilians, by way of lies, through subtle manipulation, plying their lies to the media, putting their spin on events and the reasons behind being their. But it's no coincidence that the western allies took care of Iraq, then quickly moved in on Afghanistan and now we here of their pressure on Iran, threatening sanctions etc.
Officials claim that much of what Islamic terrorists are supposed to have done, was and is actually incited by political hit men and Trojan horse troops stirring frustrations for the purposes of the western agendas. Whether there's any true in that or not, the fact still remains that the Islamic world is clearly being targeted and if my opinion is worth anything at all, I believe it's with a purpose that when the time comes to reveal their strength, in which ever form that might take, the west will be better positioned if Islamic nation, who historically have been allies with Russia, are substantially weakened, and the west control their situation and their oil. When that 'move' does finally come in to play, I'm sure we'll quickly see who these ten kings are, and I'm guessing there is even a possibility that one or two of these kings will be from Islamic nations, as deals are always done behind closed door, before the events even take place. I think they call it selling your brother up the river!
Blessings to all,
Mark
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies. Rom 8:33
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RE: Revelations - 9/11/2009 1:59:21 PM
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cornergas
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Revelation 17..a church riding a beast..sits on seven hills..referred to by Johns vision as mother of harlots..sounds like Roman church, and all the protestant breakaway churches? The church is drunk with the blood of the saints..and is a reminder of past inquisition, and of events to come when this church will declare war on the true Christians? Remember the present Pope has said a year ago that this church is the only true Christian church!
Know the truth and it will set you free
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy
God bless us all.
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RE: Revelations - 9/13/2009 12:40:01 AM
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Wayfaring Stranger
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
Shalom, Bob.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
cornergas...don't all religions say this? Some are even willing to kill to prove it.
Bob
Question (And, yes, this is a leading question): What do the heads and the horns of this beast upon which the woman sits represent?
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
Symbolically the head could refer to thoughts. The 10 Laws the OT could be viewed as 'heads' Murder is a blasphemy against God, thefts, lusts, ect are all started in the head as thoughts. Horns are spoken words, more as in speeches than 1-on-1 conversations. So in this case it would be the 10 abominations that the woman controls people with. Lust can be as 'innocent' as a sexy tv commercial. Greed could be as simple as doing anything for money and position and power. With words, in a case wher a very large powerful voice might include 10 languages. When referencing Satan's forces at the time of Christ's return it is mentioned as 2/3 of men (that are alive).
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RE: Revelations - 9/13/2009 4:56:28 AM
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yohannan
Posts: 265
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Wayfaring Stranger
quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
Shalom, Bob.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
cornergas...don't all religions say this? Some are even willing to kill to prove it.
Bob
Question (And, yes, this is a leading question): What do the heads and the horns of this beast upon which the woman sits represent?
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
Symbolically the head could refer to thoughts. The 10 Laws the OT could be viewed as 'heads' Murder is a blasphemy against God, thefts, lusts, ect are all started in the head as thoughts. Horns are spoken words, more as in speeches than 1-on-1 conversations. So in this case it would be the 10 abominations that the woman controls people with. Lust can be as 'innocent' as a sexy tv commercial. Greed could be as simple as doing anything for money and position and power. With words, in a case wher a very large powerful voice might include 10 languages. When referencing Satan's forces at the time of Christ's return it is mentioned as 2/3 of men (that are alive).
The law of The Prophecy of this book will be horns for you is written as Blessings and Curses; both were Prophesied over the land and thus We see that there is a time for these things to come to pass as well. For there was a time for the trial in Babylon with Daniel, Persia with Esther, a time for the trial with Antiochus Epiphinanes with The Maccabeans, a time for the trial with Nero with The Christians and Judeans, a time for the trial with Hitler and Judeans, and a time for the culmination of the appearance of the false prophet who implements the number of his name as commerce worship for The Law is that The Lord is testing You to see if you Love Him. These things were to be bound on ones head and hand for The New Covenant was that The Lord would personally write these things upon the hearts and minds of the peoples with The Kingdom of God among them in service to Him. 2/3 of the children of Eve The Woman will be taken and killed and put to death as written worldwide; 1/3 will remain as Remnant awaiting the raptura catching up to meet Him in the air as He gathers His Hosts and the others left with the mark of the number of the name of the false prophet and the Great Tribulation Desolation Decrees of the Feast of the Trumpets announcing The Angelic Judgment Decisions of God in fulfillment of the walls falling down which were the protection in the allowance of the Great City Babylon as fulfillment of the agreement given by God to let these rule.
For there were 2/3 of the Angels who remained with God and retained their places in service commitment to Him. For wisdom is proved right by all of her children in the diaspora among the gentiles scattered among all of the nation states and provinces since the beginning of the nations with Cain and after the flood at The Tower of Babel (Baby lon; where unto us a Son has been given for The Woman gave birth to The Scepter Judah Heir as written. A 'baby' and lon means Lion; the Lion of the Tribe of Judah).
Some had tested Him during these ten times which will be coming as fulfilled from before when Israel was wandering in the Desert among the place prepared for Her by God in the time period of the Balaamic false prophet and Korah's rebellions.
< Message edited by yohannan -- 9/13/2009 6:57:26 PM >
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RE: Revelations - 9/13/2009 6:34:34 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 809
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
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Shalom, Bob.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Hi Roy...
If we go back to Dan 7 I think we would find that the beasts being discussed are kings and their kingdoms; therefore, both heads and horns refer to kingdoms arising from the seas of the peoples of the world.
Revelation 17:7 (KJV)
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
Revelation 17:10 (KJV)
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Revelation 17:12 (KJV)
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
So one of the seven heads is yet future and the ten horns, which are kings, are also future.
After much consideration, wrestling back and fourth between the EU and the Muslim Kingdoms, I think it is the EU who will bring forth the ten horns ruled led by the one head yet to come. I think Islam plays a key role but they are not the ones led by the man of sin.
Just my opinion...
In Messiah...
Bob
Right you are. "Mountains" can also refer to "kingdoms" in Jewish thought. Therefore, we do NOT have to be talking about "a city that resides on seven hills." We are talking about six KINGDOMS and a seventh KINGDOM ruled by ten kings. These all have a short reign and give their rulership to the beast, an eighth KINGDOM.
What I find interesting is that Revelation also talks about the heads (the hills or kingdoms) as major kings of the past and that they are sequential, because "five are fallen, one is, and the other is not yet come." (Revelation 17:10) However, remember: this was true at the writing of Revelation and may not be still future today.
(I was almost confused, too, by the way. I've constantly heard sermons in the past that likened this beast to the fourth beast of Dani'el 7. Actually, we have nothing concrete by which to make this connection.)
What do you make of that?
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
_____________________________
Stick to the Scriptures! The minute you start to draw an analogy or explain what a Scripture means or give a particular view of theology, you've left the safety of Absolute Truth, and you're on your own!
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