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Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/8/2009 12:49:40 PM
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mcompton1973
Posts: 3
Joined: 9/8/2009
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well, that title should get people to read this at least.
Here is what I mean, and please forgive me for some of what I am going to say...I am being brutally honest here.
For some reason I have always felt pulled to church...but not really gone. For example when I was a freshman in HS I checked out a lot of world religion books, and books of different denominations etc because I felt like I should grow up to be a preacher...but I did not actually go to church. I dont understand that, but its true.
Later in life I joined the Marine Corps, and in basic training I accepted Jesus in my life. This would have been in early 1993. Then I moved to my duty station and lived a very NOT Christian life. A few years later I got involved in a small Baptist church, and really for the first time felt a part of a church...and again I felt called to preach. My problem here is that as I look back on it, I KNEW what I should know...but I dont know that I really BELIEVED it. no...I Believed it...on an intellectual level...but I dont know that i really FELT it maybe?
Well, long story short, Marine Corp life, a divorce, remairage, and my fathers death led me to an entirely different place where I felt there was no such thing as God. I spent 5 years saying that I did not believe in God...now here is an interesting thing. I would have to remind myself on occasion to NOT pray when I needed guidence or help. Does that make any since? In otherwords I would be going through something and I would start to pray, and then I would catch myself and think "Wait...I dont belive in God, so I should not be praying now...and if there was a God, now is not when he would want to hear from me"
About 6 months or less ago, I had a debate with my youngest son who is 13. He goes to church each week, and thinks that someday he wants to be a preacher. The thing is that I know he beleives in what he is saying. His mother (my ex) has consistantly taken them to church even if she was a poor example. ie her and her live in boyfriend used to tell him to tell people in Church they were married already. So she told a 7yr old to lie in church to the church people about his mom and her live in boyfriend. And still he has come out to be a strong believer. Anyways, we were debating, and while we were debating, I went to show him a website that I had gone too once and instead ended up at a different site. The site I ended up to had a quote...something about how many Athiest dont "not belive" they say they dont believe because they dont want to act the way that a beleiver is supposed to act. or something like that. That got to me...and so I thought that was a little bit of me.
Since then I have been reading the bible, and I have been going to church...although not as regular as I should. Now I am thinking, ok...I belive now. Except now, I dont know if I belive or not. Let me explain. I KNOW the bible is true. I KNOW what I should be doing etc...I Belive it in the same way I believe that I should stop at a red light. For the last week I have been reading over tons and tons of doctrine type stuff. like. Am I more Calvinist? Armenist? 4 point Calvinist? Do I believe in predestination? free will? Can I loose my salvation? Have I ever been REALLY saved yet? am I NOT saved because I am thinking too much about it? What if there is predestination, and I wasnt chosen which is why I can KNOW all about it but cant seem to have that deep relationship with God kind of belief?
It is important to me to know WHAT it is that I beleive. I would struggle going to a church that had a statement of faith that was Once Saved Always Saved if I did not think that it was a biblical principal...so now I understand some of the arguments on an intellectual and historical level..but I still dont know which is right.
So this puts me where I am today. I UNDERSTAND Christianity, and I belive in Jesus, and the things of the Bible etc. But I dont know which Church I should go to...and I dont know that I really even still feel a deep and personal relationship with Christ...but I want to...I really want to...but I think I am overthinking it...but I have to. that is who I am.
Help? Encouragement? Advice? Anything? Thank you.
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/8/2009 1:13:49 PM
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JimSutton
Posts: 41
Joined: 8/13/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mcompton1973
So this puts me where I am today. I UNDERSTAND Christianity, and I belive in Jesus, and the things of the Bible etc. But I dont know which Church I should go to...and I dont know that I really even still feel a deep and personal relationship with Christ...but I want to...I really want to...but I think I am overthinking it...but I have to. that is who I am.
Help? Encouragement? Advice? Anything? Thank you.
Great post. Thank you for sharing with us your journey of faith. I think many here can identify and I'm sure many will share their own answers and insights with you.
Here's the thing: the primary relationship a believer has is with Jesus Christ Himself. You are answering His call, so keep following.
It does not matter so much about the exact church you go to, or how many points a tulip has, or if you lean more to a "holiness" approach, doctrinally speaking. What matters is that you make the commitment to believe Jesus Christ (not just to believe that He is who He says He is). The Lord Himself, as you continue to surrender to Him, will guide you to the specific Christian fellowship that you need.
Since your son is a Christian believer, you might want to begin attending where he goes, and allow the Lord to lead you from there. Ask the Lord to also open your eyes more and more to the Bible, and spend lots of time letting God teach you in and through the pages of Holy Scripture. Continue your journey as a follower of Jesus Christ, and not merely as a follower of Christian ideas or teachings. Genuine believers have much more than interesting traditions. They have Jesus.
The God who has bright you this far is well able to take you all the way into the riches of a strong relationship and pathway of faith. Keep following Him. And please keep us posted as the Lord directs you along the way.
_____________________________
Jim Sutton
www.GospelGifs.com
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/8/2009 1:28:05 PM
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Psalms274
Posts: 2867
Status: offline
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quote:
Since then I have been reading the bible, and I have been going to church...although not as regular as I should. Now I am thinking, ok...I belive now. Except now, I dont know if I belive or not. Let me explain. I KNOW the bible is true. I KNOW what I should be doing etc...I Belive it in the same way I believe that I should stop at a red light. For the last week I have been reading over tons and tons of doctrine type stuff. like. Am I more Calvinist? Armenist? 4 point Calvinist? Do I believe in predestination? free will? Can I loose my salvation? Have I ever been REALLY saved yet? am I NOT saved because I am thinking too much about it? What if there is predestination, and I wasnt chosen which is why I can KNOW all about it but cant seem to have that deep relationship with God kind of belief?
You have lots of questions here ... and to be honest, the answers to those questions will not bring you closer to God.
The most important questions are:
1.) Who is this Jesus and is He who He claims to be?
2.) If He is, what do I do?
3.) Is the bible accurate?
4.) If it is, what do I do with that?
When I was seeking God to find out if He was truly who He claimed to be in the bible, these were the questions I needed answers to. There are a lot of doctrines out there in an attempt to explain things about God He has not necessarily revealed to us ... and the reason He chose not to is because they cloud the issue. I searched and found that the reason that tomb was empty was because Christ has risen from the dead. I found that the bible was indeed the word of God. So ... I did the only thing I could do: I confess with my mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in my heart that God raised him from the dead, and that was all it took to be saved. From there I just began to get to know this God of the universe Who gave His life for me so that I could come to Him.
The main thing is to go where they teach the word of God ... find a place were they take His word and teach it. It is that simple. I have found that in many denominations ... there is not a perfect church, nor is there a perfect doctrine. As you grow and learn more, remember not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It is very rare to find a church that is 100% in their theology. That is why we are told to test everything and to hold onto what is good (from 1 Thessalonians 5:21). When you here a message, open your bible and test that message against God's word. If there are parts of that message that do not line up ... dis-guard them. But hang on to those things that are true to God's word.
I will be praying for you! 
_____________________________
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/8/2009 1:44:08 PM
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LCannon
Posts: 1121
Joined: 2/22/2007
From: Lebanon, OR
Status: online
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quote:
I KNOW the bible is true. I KNOW what I should be doing...
Too intellectual? Spare us. Near the end of his life Karl Bartz the great Swiss author, theologian, thinker and apologist was asked what was the single most significant personal reflection he had learned in his journey in his life experience. Thinking the questioner would receive some personal revelation/illumination Bartz relied simply, 'Jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so.' He added this faith in the teaching and obedience in Christ Jesus is extremely simple, even a child are the simple can grasp it, one believes it through obedience/service/worship or remain in the quagmire of unbelief/arrogance but the mechanics can be messy.
Find a church assembly that you can be consoled(and be a consoler), confess(and be a confessor)and confide(and be a confidant). Obey what you know to be right from study/reading, serve/worship in enjoyment of that body and grow in the nurture and admonition of Christ. Only a fool repeats or rehearses the same tired notions.
_____________________________
'I will never leave you nor forsake you.' (Joshua 1:5)
''Let the very worst thing come to pass[and]even there,
especially there; His hand will hold.' -Elisabeth Elliot-
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/8/2009 3:13:18 PM
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mersch
Posts: 27
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mcompton1973
well, that title should get people to read this at least.
Here is what I mean, and please forgive me for some of what I am going to say...I am being brutally honest here.
For some reason I have always felt pulled to church...but not really gone. For example when I was a freshman in HS I checked out a lot of world religion books, and books of different denominations etc because I felt like I should grow up to be a preacher...but I did not actually go to church. I dont understand that, but its true.
Later in life I joined the Marine Corps, and in basic training I accepted Jesus in my life. This would have been in early 1993. Then I moved to my duty station and lived a very NOT Christian life. A few years later I got involved in a small Baptist church, and really for the first time felt a part of a church...and again I felt called to preach. My problem here is that as I look back on it, I KNEW what I should know...but I dont know that I really BELIEVED it. no...I Believed it...on an intellectual level...but I dont know that i really FELT it maybe?
Well, long story short, Marine Corp life, a divorce, remairage, and my fathers death led me to an entirely different place where I felt there was no such thing as God. I spent 5 years saying that I did not believe in God...now here is an interesting thing. I would have to remind myself on occasion to NOT pray when I needed guidence or help. Does that make any since? In otherwords I would be going through something and I would start to pray, and then I would catch myself and think "Wait...I dont belive in God, so I should not be praying now...and if there was a God, now is not when he would want to hear from me"
About 6 months or less ago, I had a debate with my youngest son who is 13. He goes to church each week, and thinks that someday he wants to be a preacher. The thing is that I know he beleives in what he is saying. His mother (my ex) has consistantly taken them to church even if she was a poor example. ie her and her live in boyfriend used to tell him to tell people in Church they were married already. So she told a 7yr old to lie in church to the church people about his mom and her live in boyfriend. And still he has come out to be a strong believer. Anyways, we were debating, and while we were debating, I went to show him a website that I had gone too once and instead ended up at a different site. The site I ended up to had a quote...something about how many Athiest dont "not belive" they say they dont believe because they dont want to act the way that a beleiver is supposed to act. or something like that. That got to me...and so I thought that was a little bit of me.
Since then I have been reading the bible, and I have been going to church...although not as regular as I should. Now I am thinking, ok...I belive now. Except now, I dont know if I belive or not. Let me explain. I KNOW the bible is true. I KNOW what I should be doing etc...I Belive it in the same way I believe that I should stop at a red light. For the last week I have been reading over tons and tons of doctrine type stuff. like. Am I more Calvinist? Armenist? 4 point Calvinist? Do I believe in predestination? free will? Can I loose my salvation? Have I ever been REALLY saved yet? am I NOT saved because I am thinking too much about it? What if there is predestination, and I wasnt chosen which is why I can KNOW all about it but cant seem to have that deep relationship with God kind of belief?
It is important to me to know WHAT it is that I beleive. I would struggle going to a church that had a statement of faith that was Once Saved Always Saved if I did not think that it was a biblical principal...so now I understand some of the arguments on an intellectual and historical level..but I still dont know which is right.
So this puts me where I am today. I UNDERSTAND Christianity, and I belive in Jesus, and the things of the Bible etc. But I dont know which Church I should go to...and I dont know that I really even still feel a deep and personal relationship with Christ...but I want to...I really want to...but I think I am overthinking it...but I have to. that is who I am.
Help? Encouragement? Advice? Anything? Thank you.
I would suggest you start with the 1st church, Orthodoxy-Christianity since 33 ad, then go from there to the schisms, till you end up with how all the denoms and non-denoms got here. Its kind of what I did but I went backwards first-starting with the 2000's then went back. I think it would of been easier for me to start at the beginning, but didn't know where the beginning was to start. Yes, you can intellectaslize your faith too much, I feel. Keep the faith of a little child, but gather wisdom as you go.
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/8/2009 4:56:11 PM
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John_O
Posts: 7803
Joined: 9/5/2006
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Are you too intellectual? Not at all.
You know the bible is true. You know God exists. and since the bible is true you know God loves you and that Jesus died for your sins.
At thispoint you can pretty much skip the Calvinist/Arminian thing and most other doctrinal disputes. They are trivialities. Read the bible and learn what it says.
You have said that you feel drawn to church and drawn to preach. That's more than Mother Theresa ever felt. Yet she was a Godly woman.
I've found that some people are very touchy feely with their faith, and others aren't. I've found the bible to make perfect logical sense. It is totally internally and eternally consistent. Is that being too intellectual or is that using the mind God gave me to find Him. I think it's finding Him in the best way for me.
Keep seeking to know Him and you will find Him. Keep asking Him to reveal Himself to you and He will answer you.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/8/2009 5:29:46 PM
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HaveMercyonUS
Posts: 203
Joined: 8/16/2009
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I'm with John_O on this one. I use to look all the stuff about Calvinist, Arminism etc. and found it only to be confusing. I decided to base my beliefs only on what I learned from what I read in the bible.
quote:
It is important to me to know WHAT it is that I beleive.
At one time I use to think I had little faith or it wasn't great enough, until I went through a medical crisis. I should have been frightened and scared, but I was totally calm, because I knew everything was in God's hands no matter how things turned out. My friends were the ones who were worried and couldn't understand why I wasn't and even told me I wasn't facing the situation. My point is you may feel you don't know what you believe, but deep down you really do. If you didn't know what you believe, you probably wouldn't have even bothered to make a post or even be concerned about what you believe.
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/8/2009 6:15:11 PM
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RustyCarr
Posts: 972
Joined: 3/11/2009
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Be humble like a child. Believe the word of God. It teaches about love as Adam and Eve knew it before the fall in the Garden of Eden.
You have repented and confessed Jesus. The next instruction He gives you is to "Seek first His kingdom and His righteousess."
The kingdom of God is near. It can be found. He wouldn't tell you to seek it if it couldn't be found. They are called "The Gospels of the Kingdom of God."
If you are open to it, I would like to help you find it. I wonder if it can be done long distance, though. It might be fun to try!
What do you say?
Blessings,
Rusty
_____________________________
It is better to obey God rather than men. The Truth, God's word, within is the lamp that guides our feet. -For the Lord gives wisdom, and from His mouth come knowledge and understanding. Prov. 2:6-
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/8/2009 7:14:55 PM
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Cornhusker00
Posts: 42
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline
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You're not being "too intellectual." You're trying to wrap your head around some pretty big concepts and an infinite God. It's nerve-wracking and not an easy road.
To be honest with you, I think a great many christians are not intellectual enough. Should we have "faith like a child?" Yes.. Absolutely. HOWEVER, we're not supposed to stay at that level. We are supposed to grow in our knowledge and understanding of God. That is what you are looking to do.
I know EXACTLY what you're going through, because I went through the same thing. I am only 26, and I know as well that I am called to ministry. However, for eight years of my walk I was just accumulating head knowledge. It's like I KNEW the bible was true and I knew God could save, but I wasn't really able to believe that he came to save ME. Believing that Calvinism is correct (for a list of reasons I won't go into now), I used to struggle with the wonder of "Did God really choose me?" I saw everything i struggled with and did wrong, and I would often think things like "If I was really chosen, I wouldn't do this." For years, I spent my time trying to refrain from certain actions and making sure I was doing the right things, never even realizing that I was stuck in religion and not a true life changing pursuit of Christ.
What broke it for me was one day, overcome with guilt and worry, I finally just broke down and was completely honest with God and told him "I know what the word says, and I know it is right, but i don't believe. If you have chosen me, then I need you to confirm it and help me believe. I WANT to, but I don't." That was basically the gist of it. It was completely honest and what I truly felt.
Not even a day later, God answered that prayer and granted me an assurance of my salvation. I know this sounds cliche, but all the answers and assurances you are looking for can only come from God. I can explain to you all day long answers to your questions, but it would only add to your knowledge. My suggestion to you is to get before God and be brutally honest with him as to where you are up to. One thing I actually said to God was "Convince me now that I am yours, or lose me forever, because I can't live this way." He convinced me, and it is more real to me now than I ever thought it would be. God desires that brutal honesty from you. His word says that a "broken and contrite heart he will not despise." He doesn't hate it when you have trouble believing. Christ encountered countless people in the Bible who had faith that he could heal, yet had trouble believing he would do it for them. Yet, he would still move in them.
Just relax, and be real with God. He already knows everything you're feeling and thinking anyway. He's just waiting for you to decide you've run in circles long enough. It's clear from your post that God IS drawing you, because you have a desire for the truth. He wouldn't allow that desire to rise in you if he had no intention of fulfilling it.
I know this isn't anything profound, but I truly hope this response helps you and encourages you. To be blatantly, overly simplistic in all I've said, hear this one thing... GET BEFORE GOD AND JUST BE HONEST... no matter how ugly it feels or looks. I promise, you won't be disappointed. I wasn't.
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/8/2009 8:49:08 PM
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bondserv65
Posts: 317
Joined: 5/1/2009
From: Chicago
Status: offline
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You've had alotta great advice so far and some that i would not accept when choosing which shirt to wear. For the most part i cannot add anything to the great advice already posted, but i wanted to at least drop a line of encouragement. You appear to be on a journey that goes MUCH deeper than any denomination or doctrine or church or ministry and you appear to be on the right track! Keep searching! Keep questioning! Trust your instincts about a church and if it turns out to be the wrong path, no worries God WILL honor your search and your honesty and the fact that you are willing to be transparent before others. Keep fighting the good fight, MCompton! You are doing great and God has all of eternity to finish the good work He began in you and will be faithful to complete. i hope there is some encouragement in this post because your honesty and openness are encouraging to me and i truly appreciate it! Thank you!
_____________________________
The more complex the sugar is the more my body likes it. My taste buds like the things my body likes. My body hates meaningless fat in the things i eat but my body loves fiber! Exercise is my favorite passtime!
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/15/2009 1:16:22 AM
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WanderingLamb
Posts: 275
Joined: 11/10/2005
From: Western WA, USA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mcompton1973
So this puts me where I am today. I UNDERSTAND Christianity, and I belive in Jesus, and the things of the Bible etc. But I dont know which Church I should go to...and I dont know that I really even still feel a deep and personal relationship with Christ...but I want to...I really want to...but I think I am overthinking it...but I have to. that is who I am.
Hi there, I know where you're coming from cuz I'm a lot like you!
_____________________________
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
I'm being brainwashed.
Romans 12:2
Ephesians 5:26
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/15/2009 1:21:49 AM
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WanderingLamb
Posts: 275
Joined: 11/10/2005
From: Western WA, USA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HaveMercyonUS
I'm with John_O on this one. I use to look all the stuff about Calvinist, Arminism etc. and found it only to be confusing. I decided to base my beliefs only on what I learned from what I read in the bible.
Me too, I have been studying and studying cuz I feel this great need to feed my mind about "God stuff" (as my husband calls it), but I don't know what teachings to accept sometimes. I decided to hang on to what I feel most deeply about, pass that on in the cloak of my own experiences, and keep an open mind about the rest, because God doesn't fit in any of our boxes! It's all about your relationship with Jesus anyway, so you can't get any wiser than you need to be at a particular moment for the particular role you are fulfilling at the time. Some things we just don't need to know or understand, although we may want to...and I can understand the feeling that you ought to have it all figured out if you feel called to be a preacher. Those who teach others are, after all, called to a higher standard (James 3:1).
_____________________________
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
I'm being brainwashed.
Romans 12:2
Ephesians 5:26
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/15/2009 1:50:27 AM
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HaveMercyonUS
Posts: 203
Joined: 8/16/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WanderingLamb
quote:
ORIGINAL: HaveMercyonUS
I'm with John_O on this one. I use to look all the stuff about Calvinist, Arminism etc. and found it only to be confusing. I decided to base my beliefs only on what I learned from what I read in the bible.
Me too, I have been studying and studying cuz I feel this great need to feed my mind about "God stuff" (as my husband calls it), but I don't know what teachings to accept sometimes. I decided to hang on to what I feel most deeply about, pass that on in the cloak of my own experiences, and keep an open mind about the rest, because God doesn't fit in any of our boxes! It's all about your relationship with Jesus anyway, so you can't get any wiser than you need to be at a particular moment for the particular role you are fulfilling at the time. Some things we just don't need to know or understand, although we may want to...and I can understand the feeling that you ought to have it all figured out if you feel called to be a preacher. Those who teach others are, after all, called to a higher standard (James 3:1).
Amen.  If I went by everything I studied and were to name what I was, I would be a Cal/Armini/Protest/Bap/NonDenom/etc.. Our personal relationship with Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God's word is all any of us really need to guide us.
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/15/2009 9:00:32 AM
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mcompton1973
Posts: 3
Joined: 9/8/2009
Status: offline
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Thanks for all the encouragement.
I keep praying to God to fill me. Fill me with the Holy Spirit, fill me with direction, fill me with believe and love.
I am trying so hard...possibly too hard.
I am also trying to figure out this whole feeling called to preach thing. I cant be a preacher...so what is God trying to tell me? I guess I keep praying till I get an answer. Thanks again for all your help.
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/15/2009 1:30:28 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6747
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
Am I being to intellectual to believe?
Probable not since you used 'To" instead of "Too".
Scripture is very plain as to why folks fo not Believe;
(Joh 3:18, 39) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/15/2009 4:39:19 PM
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Phulish
Posts: 93
Joined: 4/4/2008
Status: offline
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Intellectualism can certainly block spirituality. That's not to say it's wrong. It's just that we need to put the mind in it's place. It's a tool, to help us function in the world, not our spiritual center. To try to know spiritual truths with only our mind is like trying to prepare for a test with our foot. Our ever increasing materialism in society has unfortunately conditioned us this way unlike any other generation.
I also love studying the different beliefs and factions of Christianity but I think we should put them in perspective. When studying them let go of any need for having to identify with one or the other. Study them from a higher vantage point and maybe see them in a better light. They may become less important than you think they are. I think the most important thing is knowing yourself in relation to God. Assigning yourself to a particular denomination or church isn't the answer.
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/15/2009 4:53:00 PM
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WanderingLamb
Posts: 275
Joined: 11/10/2005
From: Western WA, USA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Phulish
Intellectualism can certainly block spirituality. That's not to say it's wrong. It's just that we need to put the mind in it's place. It's a tool, to help us function in the world, not our spiritual center. To try to know spiritual truths with only our mind is like trying to prepare for a test with our foot. Our ever increasing materialism in society has unfortunately conditioned us this way unlike any other generation.
I also love studying the different beliefs and factions of Christianity but I think we should put them in perspective. When studying them let go of any need for having to identify with one or the other. Study them from a higher vantage point and maybe see them in a better light. They may become less important than you think they are. I think the most important thing is knowing yourself in relation to God. Assigning yourself to a particular denomination or church isn't the answer.
This is so true. Our minds are only one part of us. Jesus said, Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. (Mark 12:30 - emphasis mine) So, while the mind certainly ought not be bypassed, it is not the filter by which to filter everything. Rather, "The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace" Romans 8:6, emphasis mine.
A couple of other Scripture verses come to mind:
2 Timothy 1:7 For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline (in some versions this is translated "sound mind").
John 8:31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
I hope that is helpful
< Message edited by WanderingLamb -- 9/15/2009 5:00:54 PM >
_____________________________
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
I'm being brainwashed.
Romans 12:2
Ephesians 5:26
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/15/2009 9:01:53 PM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 928
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
Status: offline
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Many of us no doubt have had the same thoughts you do. But given a choice, living the Christian life is so rewarding, that we know it is where we want to be. I think our faith grows, sometimes in spurts, as we experience life with Christ and read our Bibles. We realize how much strength God has given us in trials, we see how God has taught us and chastened us, and we see the effect of the gospel on our relationships with others. We become more caring parents and spouses and neighbors. And we do look forward to heaven.
2 Corinthians 10 (KJV)
5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2 Corinthians 10 (NIV)
5We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
Isaiah 26
3Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.
I suggest that you start memorizing scripture.
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/15/2009 9:37:57 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
Posts: 342
Joined: 6/2/2005
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline
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hello! I'm going to tell you the truth.
13 And they were bringing children to Him so that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked them. 14 But when Jesus saw this, He was indignant and said to them, “Permit the children to come to Me; do not hinder them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 “Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.” 16 And He took them in His arms and began blessing them, laying His hands on them.--Mark 10:13-16
The Bible says we must come to Him as a child. Most often children believe ANYTHING you tell them. They have complete faith. This is necessary to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. And if you read this in context, you will see that what follows this example is the story of the rich young ruler (see Mark 10-28). In this particular scenario, Jesus Christ tells the Rich young ruler to give up all that he has and follow Him. Yet the ruler went away sad. This is an ironic story, because in most cases Jesus Christ did not ask people to give up ALL that they had. But Jesus asked this of the Rich young ruler, because Jesus knew what was in his heart.
God knows what you want to hold on to; and what you are unwilling to give up. Often that is what is required of you to enter His kingdom as a child. Notice the contrast between the rich young ruler and the children. The children were clamoring to get to Jesus so that He could bless Him yet on the other hand,--the rich young ruler was trying to "negotiate." "Okay Jesus, what do I need to do to go to heaven?"
The rich young ruler walked away sad. Why? Because He knew Jesus Christ was the truth, but was unwilling to give up his riches for Him. God calls all of us and He gives each of us a chance to CHOOSE HIM. But it is our choice; regardless of predestination. Over thinking is just our way of trying to hold on to some of our "riches." But only when you are prepared to lose it all are you ready to gain it all (Mark 8:35).
It is possible to KNOW the right thing to do and NOT do it. We do it all of the time (eg. second helping of cake, cutting someone off in traffic). We KNOW what's right, but whether we do it or not makes all of the difference. Knowing God's word and doing it are two different things. Satan knows God's word too--He tempted Christ, using God's word in the wilderness (Matt 4:6).
It's not enough to know. It's not enough to believe it is true. It's not enough to know that Jesus Christ is calling you. One must make a decision to follow Christ and submit one's life to Christ. Jesus Christ Himself put it this way: "If ye love me, keep my commandments(John 14:14)."
Again, John puts it this way:
For this is the Love of God, that we keep his commandments; and his commandments are not grevious. (John 5:3).
It is only when we are prepared to come as children and say, "not my will, but Your will be done" that we find eternal life.
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/16/2009 12:53:16 AM
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WanderingLamb
Posts: 275
Joined: 11/10/2005
From: Western WA, USA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
hello! I'm going to tell you the truth.
13 And they were bringing children to Him so that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked them. 14 But when Jesus saw this, He was indignant and said to them, “Permit the children to come to Me; do not hinder them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 “Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.” 16 And He took them in His arms and began blessing them, laying His hands on them.--Mark 10:13-16
The Bible says we must come to Him as a child. Most often children believe ANYTHING you tell them. They have complete faith. This is necessary to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. And if you read this in context, you will see that what follows this example is the story of the rich young ruler (see Mark 10-28). In this particular scenario, Jesus Christ tells the Rich young ruler to give up all that he has and follow Him. Yet the ruler went away sad. This is an ironic story, because in most cases Jesus Christ did not ask people to give up ALL that they had. But Jesus asked this of the Rich young ruler, because Jesus knew what was in his heart.
God knows what you want to hold on to; and what you are unwilling to give up. Often that is what is required of you to enter His kingdom as a child. Notice the contrast between the rich young ruler and the children. The children were clamoring to get to Jesus so that He could bless Him yet on the other hand,--the rich young ruler was trying to "negotiate." "Okay Jesus, what do I need to do to go to heaven?"
The rich young ruler walked away sad. Why? Because He knew Jesus Christ was the truth, but was unwilling to give up his riches for Him. God calls all of us and He gives each of us a chance to CHOOSE HIM. But it is our choice; regardless of predestination. Over thinking is just our way of trying to hold on to some of our "riches." But only when you are prepared to lose it all are you ready to gain it all (Mark 8:35).
It is possible to KNOW the right thing to do and NOT do it. We do it all of the time (eg. second helping of cake, cutting someone off in traffic). We KNOW what's right, but whether we do it or not makes all of the difference. Knowing God's word and doing it are two different things. Satan knows God's word too--He tempted Christ, using God's word in the wilderness (Matt 4:6).
It's not enough to know. It's not enough to believe it is true. It's not enough to know that Jesus Christ is calling you. One must make a decision to follow Christ and submit one's life to Christ. Jesus Christ Himself put it this way: "If ye love me, keep my commandments(John 14:14)."
Again, John puts it this way:
For this is the Love of God, that we keep his commandments; and his commandments are not grevious. (John 5:3).
It is only when we are prepared to come as children and say, "not my will, but Your will be done" that we find eternal life.
Very good post...and one I needed to read too!
_____________________________
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
I'm being brainwashed.
Romans 12:2
Ephesians 5:26
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/16/2009 12:19:09 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 1263
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mcompton1973
Thanks for all the encouragement.
I keep praying to God to fill me. Fill me with the Holy Spirit, fill me with direction, fill me with believe and love.
I am trying so hard...possibly too hard.
I am also trying to figure out this whole feeling called to preach thing. I cant be a preacher...so what is God trying to tell me? I guess I keep praying till I get an answer. Thanks again for all your help.
I would have to agree that you may need to take a step back. Stop reading about all this other stuff, and get back to basics. As others have pointed out....we need to have the faith of a child....a simple, trusting, loving faith.
I too have gotten confused on many occasions as I tried to delve deeper into what this or that means. That is the whole point of.....milk and meat....in scripture. Some things you may not be ready to understand. That is where a simple faith comes in.
It is by grace alone that we are saved. God created, man sinned, sin requires death, so God died for us. It is quite easy to intellectualize this and turn it into some intricately hard concept to understand. That is why I love Paul and his epistles.....
Romans 5:8 (New King James Version)
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (New King James Version)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Romans 10:8-10 (New International Version)
8But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
Add all of that to John 3:16-18
John 3:16-18 (New International Version)
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
I think it is quite clear that you believe. You are unsure in totality which denomination, or doctrines you want to follow. So I say don't follow any. Pick a non-denom church that preaches the word and nothing but the word.
You have the desire to know God, you have the basic beliefs, and a longing to go deeper....so leave all of this other stuff out for now. Take a simple step of faith forward....and keep walking. He will show you the way.....because He is the WAY.
John 14:6 (New King James Version)
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
May God bless you and keep you.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
http://followtheleader-mat1624.blogspot.com/
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/16/2009 12:40:04 PM
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Psalm30
Posts: 29
Joined: 2/8/2006
From: northern california
Status: offline
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i believe your questions and desires are healthy for a true believer of God. my suggestions is to get down on ur knees, pray and talk to God. I wana suggest you read the book of Proverbs slowly everyday.
proverbs 1:7 'The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge.'
_____________________________
UCDavis 05
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/16/2009 3:36:00 PM
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HaveMercyonUS
Posts: 203
Joined: 8/16/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
Dakotasunbeam,
But it is our choice; regardless of predestination.
I never thought about the fact that even though we were predestined, it's still our choice. I've heard many christians talk about their lives predestination, as though there's no way they could not have followed Christ. What you have said here has made think maybe predestination only means we will hear the call, what we do from there is up to us.
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RE: Am I being to intellectual to believe? long post - 9/24/2009 12:39:50 AM
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Dakotasunbeam
Posts: 342
Joined: 6/2/2005
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline
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Thank you! I"m glad it blessed you!
quote:
ORIGINAL: WanderingLamb
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
hello! I'm going to tell you the truth.
13 And they were bringing children to Him so that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked them. 14 But when Jesus saw this, He was indignant and said to them, “Permit the children to come to Me; do not hinder them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 “Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.” 16 And He took them in His arms and began blessing them, laying His hands on them.--Mark 10:13-16
The Bible says we must come to Him as a child. Most often children believe ANYTHING you tell them. They have complete faith. This is necessary to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. And if you read this in context, you will see that what follows this example is the story of the rich young ruler (see Mark 10-28). In this particular scenario, Jesus Christ tells the Rich young ruler to give up all that he has and follow Him. Yet the ruler went away sad. This is an ironic story, because in most cases Jesus Christ did not ask people to give up ALL that they had. But Jesus asked this of the Rich young ruler, because Jesus knew what was in his heart.
God knows what you want to hold on to; and what you are unwilling to give up. Often that is what is required of you to enter His kingdom as a child. Notice the contrast between the rich young ruler and the children. The children were clamoring to get to Jesus so that He could bless Him yet on the other hand,--the rich young ruler was trying to "negotiate." "Okay Jesus, what do I need to do to go to heaven?"
The rich young ruler walked away sad. Why? Because He knew Jesus Christ was the truth, but was unwilling to give up his riches for Him. God calls all of us and He gives each of us a chance to CHOOSE HIM. But it is our choice; regardless of predestination. Over thinking is just our way of trying to hold on to some of our "riches." But only when you are prepared to lose it all are you ready to gain it all (Mark 8:35).
It is possible to KNOW the right thing to do and NOT do it. We do it all of the time (eg. second helping of cake, cutting someone off in traffic). We KNOW what's right, but whether we do it or not makes all of the difference. Knowing God's word and doing it are two different things. Satan knows God's word too--He tempted Christ, using God's word in the wilderness (Matt 4:6).
It's not enough to know. It's not enough to believe it is true. It's not enough to know that Jesus Christ is calling you. One must make a decision to follow Christ and submit one's life to Christ. Jesus Christ Himself put it this way: "If ye love me, keep my commandments(John 14:14)."
Again, John puts it this way:
For this is the Love of God, that we keep his commandments; and his commandments are not grevious. (John 5:3).
It is only when we are prepared to come as children and say, "not my will, but Your will be done" that we find eternal life.
Very good post...and one I needed to read too!
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