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RE: War in Afghanistan - 11/14/2009 1:48:46 PM
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wing2000
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The latest internal government estimates place the cost of adding 40,000 American troops and sharply expanding the Afghan security forces, as favored by Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal, the top American and allied commander in Afghanistan, at $40 billion to $54 billion a year, the officials said.
Link
....and that's just for the additional troops.
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 11/16/2009 9:13:53 AM
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tafkam
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quote:
at $40 billion to $54 billion a year, the officials said.
But since when is Obama concerned about spending money?
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Tafkam
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 11/16/2009 4:08:20 PM
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rlj
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
at $40 billion to $54 billion a year, the officials said.
But since when is Obama concerned about spending money?
Do you think it is worth it?
If we can win it I am going to give a reluctant yes. If not, it's another big waste of money.
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 11/16/2009 4:37:49 PM
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tafkam
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Of course we can win it.....but you can't fight a war halfway, without full commitment. We learned that in Vietnam.
We need to commit to win or say uncle and pull out....
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Tafkam
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 11/16/2009 7:13:48 PM
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rlj
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Of course we can win it.....but you can't fight a war halfway, without full commitment. We learned that in Vietnam.
We need to commit to win or say uncle and pull out....
I agree with you but after 8 years we still have no clue how. :\
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 11/18/2009 11:16:22 AM
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wing2000
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...while we fight for their country, their officials allegedly take bribes from the Chinese...
KABUL -- The Afghan minister of mines accepted a roughly $30 million bribe to award the country's largest development project to a Chinese mining firm, according to a U.S. official who is familiar with military intelligence reports.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/17/AR2009111704198.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2009111800831
...btw, the link also shows Afghanistan as number two (behind Nigeria) on the list of the worlds most corrupt countries....according to a study by Transparency International.
< Message edited by wing2000 -- 11/18/2009 11:26:24 AM >
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 11/18/2009 11:34:53 AM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
...while we fight for their country, their officials allegedly take bribes from the Chinese...
KABUL -- The Afghan minister of mines accepted a roughly $30 million bribe to award the country's largest development project to a Chinese mining firm, according to a U.S. official who is familiar with military intelligence reports.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/17/AR2009111704198.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2009111800831
...btw, the link also shows Afghanistan as number two (behind Nigeria) on the list of the worlds most corrupt countries....according to a study by Transparency International.
This definitely has shades of Vietnam where we propped up a corrupt government all because they were "anti-communist". Too bad they also weren't pro-democracy enough.
Our worse mistakes on foreign policy have come from associating ourselves with corrupt regimes not because of what they stand for, but what they are against.
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 11/18/2009 1:28:53 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
...while we fight for their country, their officials allegedly take bribes from the Chinese...
KABUL -- The Afghan minister of mines accepted a roughly $30 million bribe to award the country's largest development project to a Chinese mining firm, according to a U.S. official who is familiar with military intelligence reports.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/17/AR2009111704198.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2009111800831
...btw, the link also shows Afghanistan as number two (behind Nigeria) on the list of the worlds most corrupt countries....according to a study by Transparency International.
This definitely has shades of Vietnam where we propped up a corrupt government all because they were "anti-communist". Too bad they also weren't pro-democracy enough.
Our worse mistakes on foreign policy have come from associating ourselves with corrupt regimes not because of what they stand for, but what they are against.
Of course any talk of exit strategy becomes "cut and run".
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 11/18/2009 1:39:34 PM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
...while we fight for their country, their officials allegedly take bribes from the Chinese...
KABUL -- The Afghan minister of mines accepted a roughly $30 million bribe to award the country's largest development project to a Chinese mining firm, according to a U.S. official who is familiar with military intelligence reports.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/17/AR2009111704198.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2009111800831
...btw, the link also shows Afghanistan as number two (behind Nigeria) on the list of the worlds most corrupt countries....according to a study by Transparency International.
This definitely has shades of Vietnam where we propped up a corrupt government all because they were "anti-communist". Too bad they also weren't pro-democracy enough.
Our worse mistakes on foreign policy have come from associating ourselves with corrupt regimes not because of what they stand for, but what they are against.
Of course any talk of exit strategy becomes "cut and run".
If people in a country want to fight each other it doesn't matter how long we train their armies, police or security forces, they will fight and will be able to pay for the arms they require to keep a long running guerilla war going for years.
Both sides need to see violence as counter-productive to their true goals.
We could use Ireland's IRA as an example of this. It wasn't until they realized that through their use of violence was actually counterproductive to their goals and their rejection of violence and the British government's willingness to enter into a dialogue with the IRA ("the terrorists") that peace finally decended upon Ireland. But both sides need to embrace this mindset, and as Shakespeare said, "there's the rub".
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"Freedom comes with an educated mind." - Jacqueline Rushing
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 11/18/2009 4:03:00 PM
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rcjames
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Seems to this ole country boy that we can fight the Taliban, Al Quida, and other terroris over there; or fight them on main street Usa.
I will opt for over there.
Thanks
RC
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 11/18/2009 7:36:24 PM
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rlj
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Seems to this ole country boy that we can fight the Taliban, Al Quida, and other terroris over there; or fight them on main street Usa.
I will opt for over there.
Thanks
RC
I disagree because I'm not some kind of yellow belly who has to shield himself behind innocent Iraqis or Afghanis.
< Message edited by rlj -- 11/18/2009 7:49:34 PM >
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Thbbbt!!!!
A video of our cat and kitten:
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 11/20/2009 3:11:22 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2613
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Seems to this ole country boy that we can fight the Taliban, Al Quida, and other terroris over there; or fight them on main street Usa.
I will opt for over there.
Thanks
RC
I disagree because I'm not some kind of yellow belly who has to shield himself behind innocent Iraqis or Afghanis.
But that's our American arrogance, that our innocent civilians are worth more than another country's innocent civilians!
We concentrated on Iraq even though the 9/11 perpetrators were not even remotely connected to that country. Now we are dealing with a resurgent Taliban because we didn't pay the right amount of attention to them to begin with. And also because we like to throw large ordnance around and shrug and say "Oops" when we wipe out civilians.
If you look at terrorist attacks they have a clear objective. To remove a foreign country's influence or troops from the country. I bet if we weren't throwing our weight around the world militarily, we wouldn't be the object of other people's anger.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"Freedom comes with an educated mind." - Jacqueline Rushing
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 11/20/2009 3:26:21 PM
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rlj
Posts: 3865
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Seems to this ole country boy that we can fight the Taliban, Al Quida, and other terroris over there; or fight them on main street Usa.
I will opt for over there.
Thanks
RC
I disagree because I'm not some kind of yellow belly who has to shield himself behind innocent Iraqis or Afghanis.
But that's our American arrogance, that our innocent civilians are worth more than another country's innocent civilians!
We concentrated on Iraq even though the 9/11 perpetrators were not even remotely connected to that country. Now we are dealing with a resurgent Taliban because we didn't pay the right amount of attention to them to begin with. And also because we like to throw large ordnance around and shrug and say "Oops" when we wipe out civilians.
If you look at terrorist attacks they have a clear objective. To remove a foreign country's influence or troops from the country. I bet if we weren't throwing our weight around the world militarily, we wouldn't be the object of other people's anger.
Plus if we actually win in Afghanistan we'll just have to start another war or the big, bad terrorists will come over here.
_____________________________
Thbbbt!!!!
A video of our cat and kitten:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ycCndVNctA
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 11/20/2009 4:44:54 PM
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mapachito13
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Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
Plus if we actually win in Afghanistan we'll just have to start another war or the big, bad terrorists will come over here.
Or if we actually defeat them, we will have to find a new enemy. Too bad education isn't held as in high esteem as defense contractors, we could declare a Great War on Ignorance! Everyone gets a top notch education and no one has to die for it.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"Freedom comes with an educated mind." - Jacqueline Rushing
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) I don't remember Iraq being on the "Axis of Evil" list either. 
