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RE: I just don't understand... - 10/7/2009 6:53:48 PM
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E_Lin
Posts: 1099
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From: Cincinnati, OH
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quote:
If you feel a book is wrong for you to read-don't read it. Noone here is judging the op's wish to rerfrain from such reading.
Exactly.
quote:
I think people just feel personally slighted by the implication that if they do read it they must be on the wrong spiritual path.
May or may not be true..just sayin
A little bit true for some, to be sure, but for others of us, we would like to encourage people just to try and think things through completely.
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RE: I just don't understand... - 10/8/2009 10:29:39 AM
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stateofgrace
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quote:
What a polar opposite to Christianity are the 'Harry Potter' movies/books, 'The Golden Compass' and 'Twilight'.
Three completely different series with completely different world views.
One by an agnostic author with a major chip on his shoulder regarding the institutional church (and it shows), where Heaven is "overthrown" so people can do as they wish.
One by a professed Anglican Christian who used Christian references and themes in her fantasy series, and held up sacrificing one's life for others as the greatest example of heroism and love.
One by a Mormon who also pointed to sacrificing one's life for others as heroic and loving; where people care whether or not they are going to spend eternity in Heaven; and where waiting till marriage for intimacy is held up as the best choice.
Thematically, only the first is a "direct opposite" to Christianity.
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RE: I just don't understand... - 10/8/2009 11:46:55 AM
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CoeurdeLeon
Posts: 4194
Joined: 12/30/2007
From: Inside my head
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quote:
ORIGINAL: neuronstatic
It is interesting to note that in nearly all Scriptural reference to magic, sorcery, astrology, divination, fortune telling, the occult, and soothsaying, there is generally wisdom from God revealed to His people that these things are false and we are not to be fooled by them, or some similar exhortation/pronouncement. God says such that practice these things are deceivers.
The Scriptures put absolutely no credibility in magic.
What the Scriptures have listed as real danger and concern is the matter of people consulting spirits, the dead, and demons. These things are presented as really happening and really bad. But the whole magic thing is just not happening. This leads me to a simple conclusion.
There is no such thing as magic.
So for me, as I read the Scriptures, I am commanded not to practice detestable things. And let me tell you, I have no desire to go summoning demons or the dead... that is simply not on my to-do list. And since their is no such thing as magic, that did not make the list of things to do today either.
Each person must decide for themselves where they draw the line on any issue and count it as sin for themselves. This includes all things such as reading fiction, drinking alcohol, eating meat, practicing "soothsaying" of the end-times, or any other course of human endeavor that some will engage in and others find detestable.
This expresses my thinking on this exactly.
For the record...I grew up in an environment riddled with the occult. A big part of my walk with Christ has been the revelation that things that aren't real have no power over me and that to have any fear of them or of being drawn into them is to give them power which they don't have of themselves and don't deserve. For me, shying away from something which, as Neuron said, Scripture gives no credibility to, is far too much like superstition and is in opposition to my faith. This is where I see the danger for myself in relation to my occult experience. The thinking that tells me I must strictly avoid something not real...that's like avoiding walking under a ladder in my opinion. Putting faith and credence in my actions rather than in the only One who is worthy of it.
Again, let me stress that this is how it is for me and is in no way a commentary on what others do.
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RE: I just don't understand... - 10/15/2009 3:48:29 PM
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heremainsfaithful
Posts: 190
Joined: 10/14/2009
From: Alabama
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In high school I was forced to read about a woman who was forced to work in a house helping raise an angry man's kids. He treated his kids poorly and later made the fearful woman the object of his affection. She came to love him too. Then one night the unthinkable happened. The protagonist found the secret attic room where this man had his crazy wife locked up. So we have hate, violence, adultery.....Did I mention that this book is Jane Erye, written by Emily Bronte?
For those who are so convinced we Harry Potter fans are harboring a secret love of evil, let me mention a few books and movies:
Scooby Doo
Cinderella
Snow White
Sleeping Beauty
The Lord of the Rings
Pretty much everything Disney (let's not even go there)
King Arthur (remember Merlin)
This is the type of debate that will not be resolved. It's been going on for centuries.
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RE: I just don't understand... - 10/15/2009 4:16:27 PM
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neuronstatic
Posts: 1250
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This whole "debate" reminds me of what we often see in the Computer and Technology forum. Many people ask "what is best internet filter program" or "how do I keep my kids from ... {insert name of web site/internet thing here}?"
I guess as I think about the title of this thread I tend to agree with its wording.
When it comes to attempting to sequester and hide kids from everything and anything that is "not approved of by the parents", I just don't understand...
Why not have a genuine relationship with your kids and be involved with them every day. I know that in my family, we discuss anything and everything, with practical implications and Scriptural understanding.
Have that kind of relationship with your kids and you will never have to worry about what they choose to read when you are not looking.
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RE: I just don't understand... - 10/15/2009 6:16:02 PM
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heremainsfaithful
Posts: 190
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I am quoting a friend here, not myself
Legalism is easier
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RE: I just don't understand... - 11/14/2009 1:43:43 AM
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captaindiabetes
Posts: 37
Joined: 5/30/2009
From: Saint Louis, MO
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there is no word big enough or great enough or perfect enough to describe the power of God. All we can really truly know is his word, what he has done, what he is doing now in our hearts, and what he has said he will do.
that being said, the human mind cannot and will not ever be able to behold of of God. C. S. Lewis's Chronicles of Narnia is a work of fiction that is a metaphor to the great love, power, and sacrifice we can't even begin to understand. no, Jesus Christ's resurrection was no a work of "magic" or anything else but the power of God.
Books are books. You must take them at face value. It is just a story, and when the book is over and the last word is read it ends. You can't live in a world of fantasy and you can't function in a world of pretend. If you honestly believe that a book, which is largely left to the interpretation of your own imagination, is going to lead you away from God and force your hands into occult practices then chances are you have much larger problems to deal with.
Books end, movies come and go, pop culture changes daily, our favorite songs, books, films all change but God endures forever and ever and as long as your life and love and focus is directed towards God, I don't see the harm in reading stories.
God knows your true heart, harry potter fan or not.
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For what is seen is temporary, but what is not seen is eternal.
2 Corinthians 4:18
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RE: I just don't understand... - 11/14/2009 1:04:22 PM
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cries-within
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It seems these threads come and go... debating whether reading books like Harry potter, or The Golden Compas or other such books are wrong because of its content. Personally I agree with some of the people on here that say that if you feel that reading such things are wrong for me its "Harry Potter and books like The Golden Compass" (which I read by the way only later did I decide not to continue with the series.) Same with stories such as Eragon. The ending and the some of the second book sort of made me stop reading them. I had a feeling in the pit of my stomach that something about me reading this was wrong.
I'm not sure where its found but in God's word he tells us to guard our heart and mind. That we should be paying attention to what we read or watch or listen too.
Now don't get me wrong... I love fantasy. I really enjoy C.S. Lewis's Chronicles of Narnia. I love the idea in Magician's Nephew that the world of Narnia was created by singing and music. Just as God spoke things into existence. The Lord of the Rings (noone's mentioned this either) is an amazing story about how easily tempted we can be at times by evil and power.
By the way did you know it was J.R.R Tolkien who led C.S. Lewis to Christ? (just a thought)
For me there's a fine line... lets put it this way I enjoy fiction to a point. I have no problem with fantasy beings (elves, drawves, even a dragon or two) But there is a line I draw. which can be found in books such as Harry potter, Eragon and some others where they begin to teach the character's how to "use" magic. Something in me cringes and jumps back at this because I just don't feel that I should be reading this. Gold Compas it was the "Golden Compas" which the way it was described made me think of a weedgie board which are well bad and not something I even want to read about.
There's plenty of good fiction/fantasy out there that doesn't deal with that stuff.
Stephen R. Lawhead's books King Raven Triology
Even classics like "The Time Machine" or "Journey to the Center of the Earth"
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (books are way better)
Left behind (kids or adults both fantastic)
Tahn Triology by L.A. Kelly (awesome) I just haven't read the third one yet.
All I know is that I just pay attention to what is in books and if I get that feeling that I shouldn't read this because of its content I won't. If I question how good it is due to magic or other content then I won't read it. I move on to something else.
< Message edited by cries-within -- 11/14/2009 1:11:00 PM >
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RE: I just don't understand... - 11/23/2009 5:11:11 PM
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Narcil
Posts: 63
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: San Diego, CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tsnody2001
I am sorry, I know this may sound crude. But isn't that about the same as saying I want to use a bunch of naked women and/or men having gay and/or strait sex in my movie, because the plot is about good vs. evil? I mean, after all, the plot is what is important, right?
There is a difference in portraying sex on screen and portraying something like violence and the Narnia/LotR style magic on the screen. The difference is that in portraying violence or magic, no violence or magic is actually done. However, to portray sex, especially the way you put in the above quote, sinful behavior must actually take place during filming. Not only that, but while violence and magic portrayed on screen generally don't prompt sinful behavior in the viewers (I've never been tempted to attempt real magic or commit real violence after seeing it on-screen), sexual material can and does awaken lust, at the very least, in many of those watching.
Secondly, even real violence is not in-and-of-itself wrong. Context is everything. There is such a thing as good violence.
Finally, to portray an evil person committing "bad" violence is, in my opinion, acceptable; as long as the story makes it clear that such violence is reprehensible and the perpetrator of such violence receives justice in the end.
< Message edited by Narcil -- 11/23/2009 5:24:51 PM >
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RE: I just don't understand... - 11/24/2009 2:26:56 PM
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rawr.ben
Posts: 2745
Joined: 5/16/2005
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Okay, since I see Narnia and C.S. Lewis popping up here, let me set the record straight about him.
C.S. Lewis DID NOT write the Narnia series intending to have a theological Christian parallel!
C.S. Lewis said this in Of Other Worlds:
quote:
Some people seem to think that I began by asking myself how I could say something about Christianity to children; then fixed on the fairy tale as an instrument, then collected information about child psychology and decided what age group I’d write for; then drew up a list of basic Christian truths and hammered out 'allegories' to embody them. This is all pure moonshine. I couldn’t write in that way. It all began with images; a faun carrying an umbrella, a queen on a sledge, a magnificent lion. At first there wasn't anything Christian about them; that element pushed itself in of its own accord.
Also, understand this (quoting from Wiki):
quote:
Narnia is caught in endless winter that has lasted a century when the children first enter. Norse mythology also has a "great winter", known as the Fimbulwinter that is said to precede Ragnarok. The trapping of Edmund by the White Witch is reminiscent of the seduction and imprisonment of Kay by The Snow Queen in Hans Christian Andersen's novella of that name.
The dwarves and giants are from Norse mythology. Fauns, centaurs, minotaurs, dryads, etc. are all from Greek mythology. Father Christmas, of course, was part of popular English folk lore.
Yes, there is allegory. Yes, it does work. But to chalk C.S. Lewis up as some Christian-superhero author is silly.
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RE: I just don't understand... - 11/24/2009 4:26:24 PM
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neuronstatic
Posts: 1250
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From: North Carolina!
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Excellent point rawr.ben.
I think it is worth noting here the C.S. Lewis was a Christian that wrote some books that had immense fantasy elements that covered mythical creatures, imaginary creatures, alternate worlds, magic, and a host of other things. His stories constitute an epic narrative about the well understood concepts of coming of age, good vs. evil, the consequences of good and bad choices, and other aspects of humanity. It was told from an author who held a Christian world view and yet clearly, his tales are rather out of this world.
The stories just are that: stories. Allegories can be deduced, but that is a function of the reader, not the author. And that is the important part to me.
So it stands to reason, to me at least, that I as a reader contribute something to the story through my reading and understanding. As I interpret elements of the story, I give them their internal meaning to me.
What I mean is simply that two people could read identical texts and yet have two entirely different responses based on cultural, theological, and intellectual preferences.
To put it even more simply, a reader finds what they seek. If you look for evil promoted as good, you will find it. But if you look for evil vs good and choice and consequence to be demonstrated, you will find that.
< Message edited by neuronstatic -- 11/24/2009 4:33:35 PM >
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