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A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 9/21/2009 11:35:18 PM
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pressin_on
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Last Sunday at church, talking with a group of friends (all between 13-21 age rage), one of them asked our oppinion on if it was a sin to smoke. She said that she knew it was bad for you and that you shouldn't, but she wanted to know if we thought it was a sin.
It started a long debut about whether smoking, drinking, getting tattos and other issuse were sins.
Some one first brought up 2 Corinthians 6:19 & 20-Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body. Which ment to most that we need to stive to take care of our body but it didn't really clarify that it was a sin not to. And also brought up by that verse was the question "What about eating junk food and not excerising, drinking soda, a sin too?"
Someone's oppinion was it's ok to drink a little (not to get drunk) and have a smoke some times if you weren't addicted to it.
Then someone brought up the big subject of not causing your brother to sin. Like if you know you can have a drink with out haveing to have another or getting drunk but what if some one weaker sees you and says "well this good Christian can so why cant I?". So then the debut came to where was the line of not causeing your brother to sin but not being controled by everyone around us and their struggles.
Yeah, anyway, the conversation got pritty interesting and became something that we were just going around in circles with. But we mostly came up with this to finish it off- It's a heart issure, between you and God.
And of course-Ephesians 5:18 (New International Version)
18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.
We all agreed that it's a sin to be addicted to things, to make them your god or idol.
But I wanted more oppinions and you alls thoughts on these topics. Kind of heavy stuff, I was really impressed by the kids/young adults that were debuting this, they all had a huge knowledge of God's word (they kept throwing out verses), it was very cool.
What are your thoughts/wisdom on all this?
This was sort of talked about in the thread "Sin to drink wine?" But I didn't feal like it was completely covered there.
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RE: A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 9/22/2009 12:00:01 AM
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navyblueret
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I am addicted to Jesus. Does that make me a sinner? I am not kidding! 7/24X365. I may miss a bit, while asleep, or when I concentrate hard on other things, but I always end up critiquing my 'while absent' thoughts, words, and deeds, once finished. Does that make me a sinner? The Holy Spirit knows.
Jesus drank. His first miracle was making booze (wine, really good wine).
Your group is wise to say: Anything that addicts the body, may well be sinful. God knows. Almost 50 years a smoker, I also know, as does my O2 machine, that helps keep me alive.
In Messiah. Arley
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RE: A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 9/22/2009 12:04:19 AM
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Elena1030
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pressin_on
Then someone brought up the big subject of not causing your brother to sin. Like if you know you can have a drink with out haveing to have another or getting drunk but what if some one weaker sees you and says "well this good Christian can so why cant I?". So then the debate came to where was the line of not causeing your brother to sin but not being controled by everyone around us and their struggles.
True... to not worry so much what others think of us... being so in awe of humans that we aren't so much in awe of God anymore.
But...
If I am more concerned about "what am I allowed to do? what are my rights here?" than I am of "in this situation, I am privileged with the opportunity to love and serve my brothers and sisters in Christ: what would be the loving thing to do?" then I need to ask God for forgiveness of my focus on self (aka pride) and ask Him to help me surrender to Him so that I am an unclogged conduit of His love.
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RE: A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 9/22/2009 12:38:45 AM
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saraimay75
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Here we go again...
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RE: A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 9/22/2009 11:26:47 AM
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MrFribbles
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My opinion -
Drink: It's a sin to be a drunkard. It is not a sin to drink alcohol period, though some people have a personal conviction from the Holy Spirit to not drink alcohol. If someone feels convicted to not drink alcohol, they should abstain. However, they wouldn't have the biblical backing to say that every Christian needs to abstain.
Smoking: Pretty much the same thing. I smoke, sort of. I have a pipe. I started smoking the fall of '07. Since then, I've smoked maybe ten times.
Tattoos: This depends on whether one believes Christians need to follow the Old Testament law. I do not. So, as long as the tattoo isn't sinful in itself (nude folks, demonic imagery, the Washington Redskins, etc.), I have no problem with them.
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-G. K. Chesterton
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RE: A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 9/22/2009 11:53:41 AM
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Tinkerbell_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
Tattoos: This depends on whether one believes Christians need to follow the Old Testament law. I do not. So, as long as the tattoo isn't sinful in itself (nude folks, demonic imagery, the Washington Redskins, etc.), I have no problem with them.
Isn't this an oxymoron? 
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RE: A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 9/22/2009 11:53:51 AM
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agapist
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Elena, loved what you had to say. It is going to the spirit, not fussing over the letter. and your other point about not being concerned about our rights (I feel as Christians, we do not have any) but the privilege and opportunity to serve; whatever makes us of perfect usefulness to God. This cuts through all the rhetoric and digressions.
A word, if you would, Dr, Seuss. "It is not up to man even to direct his own step." It is delusional to think otherwise.
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RE: A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 9/22/2009 1:01:04 PM
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cposey
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To me what all this comes down to is how you define sin. I define it as anything that seperates us from God. Smoking, drinking not drunkeness, tatto, and etc. have to be looked at the heart of the matter. Whether or not those actions seperate you from God. You could also throw in there cheeseburgers, TV, movies, hobbies.
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RE: A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 9/22/2009 1:54:43 PM
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drmark
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quote:
But we mostly came up with this to finish it off- It's a heart issure, between you and God. Amen, all sin is a "heart issue with God" in the final analysis. BTW, pressin_on, you may want to review the difference between "debut" and "debate" - no, that's not a sin to confuse the two words!
quote:
I define it as anything that seperates us from God. Excellent, cposey, but Susanna Wesley beat you to it almost 300 years ago:
quote:
"Take this rule: whatever weakens your reason, impairs the tenderness of your conscience, obscures your sense of God, or takes off your relish of spiritual things; in short, whatever increases the strength and authority of your body over your mind, that thing is sin to you, however innocent it may be in itself."
-- Susanna Wesley (Letter, June 8, 1725)
Personally, given the mind-altering chemicals associated with alcohol and tobacco use, I find them to be "sin to me"!
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RE: A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 9/23/2009 6:17:20 AM
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cposey
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quote:
Excellent, cposey, but Susanna Wesley beat you to it almost 300 years ago:
I wasn't trying to say that I came up with the definition. Just saying that different people define it different ways. This is just how if define it for myself.
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RE: A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 9/24/2009 12:02:12 AM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: agapist
Elena, loved what you had to say. It is going to the spirit, not fussing over the letter. and your other point about not being concerned about our rights (I feel as Christians, we do not have any) but the privilege and opportunity to serve; whatever makes us of perfect usefulness to God. This cuts through all the rhetoric and digressions.
A word, if you would, Dr, Seuss. "It is not up to man even to direct his own step." It is delusional to think otherwise.
Interesting, Dr. Seuss as an authority on spiritual matters. What is the loving thing to do with regard to drink, smoke and tattoos? How does each of these things make us more prefectly useful to Adonai? Don't get me wrong, I drink myself. I just wonder how one's steps are to be directed. The OP seemed to indicate that each person in the group of friends was going off in any one of many compass directions on these issues.
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RE: A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 9/24/2009 3:45:43 PM
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pressin_on
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Sorry for the spelling I ment debate, instead of debut.
Thanks for the thougts all...
< Message edited by pressin_on -- 9/24/2009 3:54:32 PM >
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RE: A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 9/24/2009 5:43:44 PM
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drmark
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quote:
I was told today that it's a sin to buy red nailpolish and to shop at Walmart. Indeed, Ms Harvie, if your purpose for buying red nail polish is to flirt with other men and your purpose in shopping at WalMart is to purchase cigarettes for minors, then those are sinful actions in my mind.
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 9/24/2009 8:01:27 PM
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tuct
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Tell me your ideas......I have always been against tatoos overall. The majority of tatoos that I see, usually dipict either some form of symbol of something a christian should never have seen or done, let alone put on your body, or just plain vanity, that someone feels they need to look better or tougher or prettier. Whatever the case may be, I feel that If you are going to mark your body, it should stand for who you are and have a deep meaning of what you believe. Wouldn't it be a great witnessing tool, if a stranger saw you and said, Hey that guy must be a Christian, look at that tatoo. I have softened my approach on the whole tatoo thing, and wondered if I should get a cross on my shoulder, with wording underneath stating, HE LIVES.
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RE: A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 9/25/2009 1:09:14 AM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tuct
Tell me your ideas......I have always been against tatoos overall. The majority of tatoos that I see, usually dipict either some form of symbol of something a christian should never have seen or done, let alone put on your body, or just plain vanity, that someone feels they need to look better or tougher or prettier. Whatever the case may be, I feel that If you are going to mark your body, it should stand for who you are and have a deep meaning of what you believe. Wouldn't it be a great witnessing tool, if a stranger saw you and said, Hey that guy must be a Christian, look at that tatoo. I have softened my approach on the whole tatoo thing, and wondered if I should get a cross on my shoulder, with wording underneath stating, HE LIVES.
That is a justification many use for getting tattoos. However, there is nothing in the Scriptures that encourage that. If one wishes to make a fashion statement for Adonai and the Scriptures, we are given specific things that we can do in the Scriptures already. It is too bad that most of the same people who justify tattoos see doing those things specifically mentioned in the Scriptures as a burden.
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 9/25/2009 7:09:55 AM
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car2ner
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Sin = God tols me not to do it but I did it anyway
Somethings aren't sin, they are just dumb ideas. How does one repent of a tattoo?
We are not always the best stewards of the bodies God has given us, for instance putting unflattering permanant marks on our bodies, putting toxic smoke in our bodies, over indulging in booze or potato chips, etc. I guess using this train of thought, sitting in a chair at the computer too much instead of exercising is a sin.
But to be real, sometimes we sin.... sometimes we just have dumb ideas.
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RE: A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 9/25/2009 12:15:51 PM
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cposey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: tuct
Tell me your ideas......I have always been against tatoos overall. The majority of tatoos that I see, usually dipict either some form of symbol of something a christian should never have seen or done, let alone put on your body, or just plain vanity, that someone feels they need to look better or tougher or prettier. Whatever the case may be, I feel that If you are going to mark your body, it should stand for who you are and have a deep meaning of what you believe. Wouldn't it be a great witnessing tool, if a stranger saw you and said, Hey that guy must be a Christian, look at that tatoo. I have softened my approach on the whole tatoo thing, and wondered if I should get a cross on my shoulder, with wording underneath stating, HE LIVES.
That is a justification many use for getting tattoos. However, there is nothing in the Scriptures that encourage that. If one wishes to make a fashion statement for Adonai and the Scriptures, we are given specific things that we can do in the Scriptures already. It is too bad that most of the same people who justify tattoos see doing those things specifically mentioned in the Scriptures as a burden.
I have a tatoo of my family crest with my wife's, children adn my intials above the crest. This reminds me of what is truly important to me. My tatoo will die when i die, it is not visible to others, it is simply for myself. What is the sin in that.
Also what scriptures are you referring to the specifically tell us what to do?
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RE: A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 9/25/2009 4:30:42 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cposey
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
That is a justification many use for getting tattoos. However, there is nothing in the Scriptures that encourage that. If one wishes to make a fashion statement for Adonai and the Scriptures, we are given specific things that we can do in the Scriptures already. It is too bad that most of the same people who justify tattoos see doing those things specifically mentioned in the Scriptures as a burden.
I have a tatoo of my family crest with my wife's, children adn my intials above the crest. This reminds me of what is truly important to me. My tatoo will die when i die, it is not visible to others, it is simply for myself. What is the sin in that.
Also what scriptures are you referring to the specifically tell us what to do?
If one accepts that the verse regarding marking ones self refers to tattoos, that would make it a sin. There are many things we do with good intentions that are not acceptable to Adonai. The thief can make the argument that he is stealing to support his family. There are alternatives. In the case you have prosented we are told, Num. (15:37-40) "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue: And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring: That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God." Isn't the clothing we wear sufficient to remind us of what is important? What about hand cookies or key fobs that children often make. Why must one mutilate one's body to remember what is important.
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 9/25/2009 10:29:19 PM
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agapist
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I wonder if it's a sin to go around correcting people unnecessarily; what is at the root of that? Vanity, it would seem. Insecurity is always a possibility.
cposey and pressin_on: there are some people here that want to appear all-knowing. As a member of this forum, I aploogize for that member's unwarranted finger-wagging. But do not expect him to change.
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RE: A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 9/26/2009 12:26:47 AM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: agapist
I wonder if it's a sin to go around correcting people unnecessarily; what is at the root of that? Vanity, it would seem. Insecurity is always a possibility.
cposey and pressin_on: there are some people here that want to appear all-knowing. As a member of this forum, I aploogize for that member's unwarranted finger-wagging. But do not expect him to change.
No need for Ad Hominem. I hope you notice that I said, "If one accepts that the verse regarding marking ones self refers to tattoos . . . " This recognizes that some do not see it that way. The primary justifications that were being presented are appearing different as an opportunity to witness and as a tool for rememberence. I then presented a way in which one could appear different and be reminded of things, that is explicitly presented in the Scriptures. I then asked why this is not sufficient. What is finger-wagging about that? Also, why is it vane and a sign of insecurity to inquire in this regard?
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 9/30/2009 12:31:09 PM
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cposey
Posts: 309
Joined: 8/20/2009
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quote:
If one accepts that the verse regarding marking ones self refers to tattoos, that would make it a sin. There are many things we do with good intentions that are not acceptable to Adonai. The thief can make the argument that he is stealing to support his family. There are alternatives
What verse are you referring to marking? The only one I know about refers to not marking yourself to say you belong to another god.
quote:
Isn't the clothing we wear sufficient to remind us of what is important? What about hand cookies or key fobs that children often make. Why must one mutilate one's body to remember what is important.
So you are telling me that you own nothing that would tell someone else who or what you are. You have nothing that you keep for remembrance sake. What is the difference? I think you need to learn that God doesn't care about our mistakes, but rather that our life encompases a heart after Him. As far as mutilating one's body, i highly doubt that you have never done anything intentional to harm your body and still continue to do that. Ever ate McDonald's, ever fallen down and have a scar, ever known anyone that had severe burns adn have scars from it. With Jesus it is not about the law, but the heart that is behind the law.
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RE: A sin to drink, smoke, have a tatto, etc...? - 10/1/2009 4:02:59 AM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2927
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cposey
quote:
If one accepts that the verse regarding marking ones self refers to tattoos, that would make it a sin. There are many things we do with good intentions that are not acceptable to Adonai. The thief can make the argument that he is stealing to support his family. There are alternatives
What verse are you referring to marking? The only one I know about refers to not marking yourself to say you belong to another god.
That is why I said, "If one accepts . . . ". One can argue proper interpretation, but you asked. "Also what scriptures are you referring to the specifically tell us what to do?" By the way you seemed to have ignored the tsitsit(fringe) alternative. Isn't this sufficient?
quote:
quote:
Isn't the clothing we wear sufficient to remind us of what is important? What about hand cookies or key fobs that children often make. Why must one mutilate one's body to remember what is important.
So you are telling me that you own nothing that would tell someone else who or what you are. You have nothing that you keep for remembrance sake. What is the difference? I think you need to learn that God doesn't care about our mistakes, but rather that our life encompases a heart after Him.
I was not critcizing hand cookies or key fobs. I was presenting them as alternatives.
quote:
As far as mutilating one's body, i highly doubt that you have never done anything intentional to harm your body and still continue to do that. Ever ate McDonald's, ever fallen down and have a scar, ever known anyone that had severe burns adn have scars from it. With Jesus it is not about the law, but the heart that is behind the law.
McDonald's once or twice a year does not leave a perminant mark. Also, I do not fall down on purpose and when I do I have no intention of marking myself. I don't know people who burn themselves on purpose, unless you are talking about tanning. By the way, I think purposely tanning or whitening otherwise healthy skin is not pleasing to Adonai. I have no biblical justification for that, but I am consistant on this matter.
< Message edited by Bluethread -- 10/1/2009 4:12:09 AM >
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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