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tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/22/2009 11:31:45 AM
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neetchym
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In Isaiah 18:7 "...from this tall, smooth skinned people, who are feared far and wide for their conquest and destruction..." who is he referring too? Who are these people?
Also in Isaiah 24:21 "In that day the Lord will punish the gods in heaven..." Isn't their only one God in heaven!? What gods will he punish?
Thanks a bunch!
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RE: tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/22/2009 11:39:48 AM
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Eutychus
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Isaiah 24:21 (New American Standard Bible)
So it will happen in that day,
That the LORD will punish the host of heaven on high,
And the kings of the earth on earth.
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RE: tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/22/2009 12:11:35 PM
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neetchym
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OK, so who are the hosts of heaven?
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RE: tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/22/2009 12:57:57 PM
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benelchi
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quote:
ORIGINAL: neetchym
In Isaiah 18:7 "...from this tall, smooth skinned people, who are feared far and wide for their conquest and destruction..." who is he referring too? Who are these people?
Also in Isaiah 24:21 "In that day the Lord will punish the gods in heaven..." Isn't their only one God in heaven!? What gods will he punish?
Thanks a bunch!
I am not sure where that translation came from, but it is incorrect.
A literal translations reads:
"In that day the Lord will punish army [or host] of the heights in the heights and the kings of the ground in the ground."
Here are various translation of this verse:
KJV Isaiah 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
NAS Isaiah 24:21 So it will happen in that day, That the LORD will punish the host of heaven, on high, And the kings of the earth, on earth.
NAU Isaiah 24:21 So it will happen in that day, That the LORD will punish the host of heaven on high, And the kings of the earth on earth.
NET Isaiah 24:21 At that time the LORD will punish the heavenly forces in the heavens and the earthly kings on the earth.
NIV Isaiah 24:21 In that day the LORD will punish the powers in the heavens above and the kings on the earth below.
NKJ Isaiah 24:21 It shall come to pass in that day That the LORD will punish on high the host of exalted ones, And on the earth the kings of the earth.
NLT Isaiah 24:21 In that day the LORD will punish the gods in the heavens and the proud rulers of the nations on earth.
RSV Isaiah 24:21 On that day the LORD will punish the host of heaven, in heaven, and the kings of the earth, on the earth.
YLT Isaiah 24:21 And it hath come to pass, in that day, Jehovah layeth a charge on the host of the high place in the high place, And on the kings of the land on the land.
P.S. While this verse doesn't even use a Hebrew word that can be translated as God. The word God in Hebrew can be used to refer to things other than God i.e. men, Angels, etc... Most Hebrew words have a much broader semantic range when compared to their English counter parts.
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RE: tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/22/2009 2:06:43 PM
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justpassinby
Posts: 785
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quote:
In Isaiah 18:7 "...from this tall, smooth skinned people, who are feared far and wide for their conquest and destruction..." who is he referring too? Who are these people?
Being of BI persuasion myself, I could not resist answering your confusion since things like these are not commonly taught, and indeed the answers to your inquiry are oftentimes despised. Anyways, here's an excerpt:
America Is The Main Country In Isaiah 18
The fourth nation is a nation scattered and peeled, a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meting out and trodding down, whose land the rivers divide. The Bible speaks of a nation scattered and peeled. These are the traits of that country:
1. A scattered people. This word is mashak (maw-shak') (Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance Hebrew Lexicon word 4900) is a primitive root; to draw, used in a great variety of applications (including to sow, to sound, to prolong, to develop, to march, to remove, to delay, to be tall, etc.):--draw (along, out), continue, defer, extend, forbear, X give, handle, make (pro-, sound)long, X sow, scatter, stretch out. All of these apply to the USA today.
2. Peeled comes from mowrat (mo-rawt') (Strong’s word 4178) which is from 'yarat' (3399); meaning obstinate, i.e. independent:--peeled. It can also mean smooth as in a clean-shaven people.
3. "…a people terrible from their beginning hitherto…" refers to a powerful and unconquered nation since its beginning. Psalm 47:2 says, "For the LORD most high is terrible; he is a great King over all the earth". Terrible does not mean bad or evil. Terrible here refers to power and strength to be respected......
Read the rest here>>>http://www.isaiah18.com/America.html
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RE: tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/22/2009 2:11:09 PM
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ChristianAttorney35
Posts: 22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: neetchym
In Isaiah 18:7 "...from this tall, smooth skinned people, who are feared far and wide for their conquest and destruction..." who is he referring too? Who are these people?
I believe it is referring to the people of the ancient kingdom of Cush, which most biblical scholars believes refers to Ethiopia.
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RE: tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/22/2009 2:26:30 PM
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drmark
Posts: 4637
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quote:
I believe it is referring to the people of the ancient kingdom of Cush, which most biblical scholars believes refers to Ethiopia. Correct, CA35! That appears to be the majority opinion of legitimate Bible scholars, with Egypt and Assyria also mentioned in the minority report.
quote:
America Is The Main Country In Isaiah 18 Total nonsense, jpb! You apparently need a good study Bible... 
Regarding Isaiah 24, is that referring to the celestial bodies or demons of the dark world or both? Surely God has no punishment in store for His loyal angels!
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RE: tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/22/2009 2:28:48 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 4566
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From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: justpassinby
quote:
In Isaiah 18:7 "...from this tall, smooth skinned people, who are feared far and wide for their conquest and destruction..." who is he referring too? Who are these people?
Being of BI persuasion myself, I could not resist answering your confusion since things like these are not commonly taught, and indeed the answers to your inquiry are oftentimes despised. Anyways, here's an excerpt:
America Is The Main Country In Isaiah 18
The fourth nation is a nation scattered and peeled, a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meting out and trodding down, whose land the rivers divide. The Bible speaks of a nation scattered and peeled. These are the traits of that country:
1. A scattered people. This word is mashak (maw-shak') (Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance Hebrew Lexicon word 4900) is a primitive root; to draw, used in a great variety of applications (including to sow, to sound, to prolong, to develop, to march, to remove, to delay, to be tall, etc.):--draw (along, out), continue, defer, extend, forbear, X give, handle, make (pro-, sound)long, X sow, scatter, stretch out. All of these apply to the USA today.
2. Peeled comes from mowrat (mo-rawt') (Strong’s word 4178) which is from 'yarat' (3399); meaning obstinate, i.e. independent:--peeled. It can also mean smooth as in a clean-shaven people.
3. "…a people terrible from their beginning hitherto…" refers to a powerful and unconquered nation since its beginning. Psalm 47:2 says, "For the LORD most high is terrible; he is a great King over all the earth". Terrible does not mean bad or evil. Terrible here refers to power and strength to be respected......
Read the rest here>>>http://www.isaiah18.com/America.html
'Morat' and 'yarat' are independent and unrelated roots and the meaning of 'yarat' is not fully understood as it is a rare root used only twice in the bible.
Overall, this is a imaginative interpretation.
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אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/22/2009 7:10:42 PM
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justpassinby
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quote:
Total nonsense, jpb! You apparently need a good study Bible...
Actually, I have 6 thick notebooks of bible study notes over the years (approx 1500 pages) and an elaborate web site dealing with such topics. Obviously not based on a passage or two. The bible speaks more about Israel than anything else considering that it is a book about Israel. So, the lost tribes must be somewhere if they are to return again in the end times, unless you are a preterist person that does not believe in end times.
And one other point.... that was not my writing, but from another site. Did you read it? I thought not.
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RE: tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/23/2009 8:08:21 AM
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DaveW
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I agree with Benelchi - an imaginitive intrepretation. The Good Ole' USA is NEVER mentioned in scripture at all, not even once. You can include it in "all the nations..." passages but never individually.
BTW - point 7 could make it any nation:
Zec 14:16 It will happen that everyone who is left of all the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to keep the feast of booths.
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RE: tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/23/2009 11:57:31 AM
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justpassinby
Posts: 785
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quote:
I agree with Benelchi - an imaginitive intrepretation. The Good Ole' USA is NEVER mentioned in scripture at all, not even once. You can include it in "all the nations..." passages but never individually.
However, a point to consider. If the USA is Israel (like I believe), then it is mentioned, but as the name of the people of Israel, eg. Manasseh or by its descriptions (in other words, the prophecies to Israel is to the USA). But this gets on a lost tribes of Israel tangent and diverting from the subject at hand, although I do believe its indirectly related due to the subject matter of this thread.
Again, the tribes of Israel must be somewhere, and they better be a large mass of people otherwise God is a liar since they were meant to be a light to the world. And again, the promises of Christ are included with the Abrahamic Covenant. Therefore, we cannot merely dismiss prophecies about a multitude of people, a multitude of nations, powerful and blessed people and yet accept the prophecies of Christ. It can't be done. They come in one, nice package.
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RE: tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/23/2009 12:34:27 PM
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drmark
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quote:
If the USA is Israel (like I believe), then it is mentioned, but as the name of the people of Israel, eg. Manasseh or by its descriptions (in other words, the prophecies to Israel is to the USA). "Imaginative interpretation" is way too diplomatic! How about incompetent, irresponsible, and incorrect!
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RE: tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/23/2009 1:49:40 PM
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Eutychus
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JPB, I asked this in another thread that you may have missed:
Where did you come upon this British/American/Israel connection and the 10 "lost" tribes? It sounds familiar, something like Herbert W. & Garner Ted Armstrong came up with.
Thanks.
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RE: tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/23/2009 2:09:48 PM
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drmark
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quote:
Where did you come upon this British/American/Israel connection and the 10 "lost" tribes? It sounds familiar, something like Herbert W. & Garner Ted Armstrong came up with. Too late, Euty, the debate's been lost...
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RE: tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/23/2009 2:55:31 PM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: justpassinby
Again, the tribes of Israel must be somewhere, and they better be a large mass of people otherwise God is a liar since they were meant to be a light to the world. Oh they are around all right. The archeological evidence is that they traveled up thru what is now Russia, over and down thru western China and some ended up in Burma and eastern India. In fact the eastern most province of India tried to split off and become a Jewish state some years back.
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RE: tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/23/2009 3:01:44 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Amazing. I have heard of this concept, and even ran into a group at the Minnesota State Fair in the very early '80s, but I had no idea that this stuff was still around.
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RE: tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/23/2009 3:04:25 PM
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drmark
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quote:
Do you know how to back up your accusations other than name-calling Actually, jpb, I've backed up my position with the same level of evidence that you've backed up yours! And my position is already supported 4-to-1 on just the first page of this thread.
Oops, now 5-to-1!
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RE: tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/23/2009 3:57:19 PM
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justpassinby
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quote:
Oh they are around all right. The archeological evidence is that they traveled up thru what is now Russia, over and down thru western China and some ended up in Burma and eastern India. In fact the eastern most province of India tried to split off and become a Jewish state some years back.
Except that Isaiah 49 says that they went Northwest. When one traces the lost tribes of Israel, one has to fulfill all the biblical descriptions. In addition, archeological evidence shows that they fit the biblical descriptions being the peoples of the British isles, NW Europe and eventually the United States.
I adamantly confirm that both Britain and the United States is northwest of Israel. And since Israel is in the opposite direction in the northeast the same direction as Britain from the United States, it shows they are on the same line as Isaiah prophesied.
quote:
JPB, I asked this in another thread that you may have missed:
Where did you come upon this British/American/Israel connection and the 10 "lost" tribes? It sounds familiar, something like Herbert W. & Garner Ted Armstrong came up with.
Thanks.
You can get a book from E. Raymond Capt at www.artisanpublishers.com tracing the tribes of Israel, since he was an archeologist 40 years in the field.
from a Jewish perspective, I came across an interesting Jewish scholar who states the same thing:
www.britam.org
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RE: tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/23/2009 4:49:38 PM
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drmark
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quote:
This is critical to prophecy, and Christianity stands or falls by that answer. Oh good heavens, now I remember why I swore off the Prophecy and End Times thread! Sorry, jpb, but my Christianity stands on the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit, not some ridiculous interpretation of eschatology!
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RE: tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/23/2009 4:52:16 PM
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Eutychus
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Modern genetics and DNA makes the whole BI gig invalid, though it certainly makes for some interesting fiction.
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RE: tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/23/2009 4:53:26 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6377
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
This is critical to prophecy, and Christianity stands or falls by that answer. Oh good heavens, now I remember why I swore off the Prophecy and End Times thread! Sorry, jpb, but my Christianity stands on the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit, not some ridiculous interpretation of eschatology!
Well said, DrMark!
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Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: tall, smooth skinned people???? Gods in Heaven?? - 9/23/2009 4:55:56 PM
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justpassinby
Posts: 785
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
This is critical to prophecy, and Christianity stands or falls by that answer. Oh good heavens, now I remember why I swore off the Prophecy and End Times thread! Sorry, jpb, but my Christianity stands on the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit, not some ridiculous interpretation of eschatology!
Do you know why it stands or falls? I sense you do not. Let me explain it to you. The Abrahamic promises included amongst other things many descendants, many nations, a great nation, powerful people, kings, a specific land and lands for them, blessings to all nations by these people, and of course the "child of promise" which ultimately included the promise of Christ. The seed of Abraham were to be as the sands of the seashore and stars of heaven, i.e. physical and spiritual as well. These promises are all grouped together. So, we can't throw one out the window or they all go by default. Since Christ is included, that includes him going out the window as well. So, where are the nations? If the Jews only are God's people (by physical birth in Abraham) then He failed miserably. I'm dead serious.
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