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Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 10:19:14 AM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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quote:
Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge?
Chuck Colson - BreakPoint
It will probably go down in history as the first presidential speech remembered not for what the President said, but for how a member of his audience responded.
Even if you didn't watch Barack Obama's health care address last week, I'm sure you've heard what happened. Obama had just finished saying that his health care plan would not cover illegal aliens. In response, Rep. Joe Wilson shouted out, "You lie!" shocking television audiences from coast to coast, not to mention the President.
Talking heads have spent the rest of the week talking about the need for civility in public discourse—and that's a good thing. Two people who are likely paying close attention to this debate are men who are about as far apart politically as it's possible to get. Mark DeMoss is the conservative president of the DeMoss Group. Lanny Davis is a former advisor to Bill and Hillary Clinton.
DeMoss and Davis—both concerned about the sharp decline in civility—have created an online forum called The Civility Project. Its goal: getting Americans to re-learn how to disagree without being so nasty to one another. They are inviting Americans of every political stripe to take a civility pledge, in which they commit to three things: "I will be civil in my public discourse and behavior. I will be respectful of others whether or not I agree with them. I will stand against incivility when I see it."
Three cheers for them! Too many Americans think that it's OK to simply shout down their opponents, malign their motives, or, when all else fails, make vicious personal attacks. I lived through this in Watergate, being spit upon by angry mobs.
What do you think of this downward spiral of uncivil discourse? Would you be willing to take the pledge? If so, join our group here:
The Civility Project
< Message edited by Fritzpw_Admin -- 9/23/2009 11:25:55 AM >
_____________________________
Fred "Fritz" Alberti
Director of Social Media
fritz@salemwebnetwork.com
Read today's Bible verse from my favorite online Bible
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 10:38:53 AM
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morningmike
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Civility in political discourse has been in short supply for some time. I personally believe internet forums can sometimes encourage uncivil debate...due to the cloak of anonymity they offer. But, as we have seen in those "town hall meetings", screaming and hollering often rules the day.
I think it's wonderful to call for civility. You and I may disagree, but we can do it without name-calling, or degrading each other's character. And civility should know no political persuasion.
I'm for it.
Mike
_____________________________
"They aren't afraid of you...they're afraid of what you represent."
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 10:54:06 AM
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GregandJenny
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From: Near Seattle Washington
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I think you bring up a good point Mike. Part of the problem I have noticed with this issue is that there are so many rumors and gossip. Not to many people (including legislators) have read the source documents. Most information we get is filtered second hand, which really does grab at emotions. When people are emotional they also don't listen to the other side, and they don't communicate clearly.
I think what people need to do is make sure that they read the bills and I know that sounds unrealistic but to me it's the citizens being engaged in the process. They can watch the debates on C-Span, and try to ask questions. I think also that people need to ask questions rather than accuse. that tends to shut people off.
As for me to pledge civility, I already have because i believe the answer lies in the middle not on either side.
G
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It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 11:03:34 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6716
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
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I know that I have had my moments of uncivil discourse. I am willing to take the pledge and attempt to mend my ways.
I think a better link in order to joining is to view all groups and click the Join button. I got an error page but noticed later that the request had gone through. The link in the OP did not have a Join option for me.
LINK
[Admin's Note: I fixed the link]
< Message edited by Fritzpw_Admin -- 9/23/2009 11:26:30 AM >
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 11:22:36 AM
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tsnody2001
Posts: 1006
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From: Terre Haute, IN
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The pledge is pointless. We all know it only applies to the other person, right? What I mean by this is that everyone is about tolerance, diversity, inclusiveness, etc., unless you disagree with them. Then you are being intolerable. "Let me speak my piece, but you can't disagree or you're a racist, or a conspiracy nut!" It's ridiculous. Where has my America gone!?!
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 11:34:07 AM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tsnody2001
The pledge is pointless. We all know it only applies to the other person, right? What I mean by this is that everyone is about tolerance, diversity, inclusiveness, etc., unless you disagree with them. Then you are being intolerable. "Let me speak my piece, but you can't disagree or you're a racist, or a conspiracy nut!" It's ridiculous. Where has my America gone!?!
But like the Golden Rule, our willingness to be civil shouldn't be conditional on other's responses. I have tended to get a little snarky when frustrated with some people but there are 2 or 3 posters on this forum that have really influenced my thinking because they were always kind and patient with me.
It's also like a conversation IRL. If one person keeps their voice quiet and their words peaceful, it tends to calm the other one.
In any event, we cannot control the other person but we actually choose how we will respond.
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 11:51:03 AM
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tsnody2001
Posts: 1006
Joined: 4/29/2008
From: Terre Haute, IN
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quote:
Original: Eutychus
But like the Golden Rule, our willingness to be civil shouldn't be conditional on other's responses. I have tended to get a little snarky when frustrated with some people but there are 2 or 3 posters on this forum that have really influenced my thinking because they were always kind and patient with me.
It's also like a conversation IRL. If one person keeps their voice quiet and their words peaceful, it tends to calm the other one.
In any event, we cannot control the other person but we actually choose how we will respond.
Very true. So many times I forget this. Although, there are times when we may have to step on some toes when speaking the truth. John the Baptist did, Jesus did, Isaiah did, Jeremiah did, etc.. The key is when doing so, do it in love, not in pride or condemnation. But in general, you are very correct.
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 11:55:15 AM
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tsnody2001
Posts: 1006
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From: Terre Haute, IN
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I guess instead of me asking "Where has my America gone!?!", I should ask, "Where has my Kingdom-mindedness gone?"
"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust" (Matthew 5:43-45).
Have mercy on us LORD!
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 12:00:09 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6716
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From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
Just like "bi-partisanship", "civility" is defined as agreeing with the Left.
So, no I will not be taking the pledge
But Joe, none of the ones in that article, especially the author Chuck Colson, could seriously be accused of agreeing with the Left.
There is a big difference in being in civil and giving in.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 12:14:41 PM
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Concerto
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I for one would not take the pledge. The whole premise is extremely silly. On and on it goes, looking at the symptoms and not the cause. Ego, corruption, arguing, etc., and the radio show hosts continue to perpetuate the problem w/o offering viable solutions.
The U.S. does not have a civility problem, it has a sin problem. Civility issues, a corrupt Congress, a media who has abandoned the integrity of what used to be the noble profession of journalism, incompetent and self-serving "leaders", and a society full of people who are more concerned with American Idol and the latest fad, then the direction the country is moving, are all symptoms of greater problem. I hear no one on the radio or in the media addressing the real problems...but only feeble attempts to put band-aids on the symptoms of these problems. What does the Bible say?
"Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members?" James 4
"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies." Matthew 15
C
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 12:33:15 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6716
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From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Concerto
The U.S. does not have a civility problem, it has a sin problem...
When I grew up in the late 50s and 60s, politicians from both sides of the aisle would go out for dinner and invited each other to parties. Friends of my family were both Democrat and Republican and I can never remember political arguments even though they discussed politics.
Today, people will get angry, loud, and rude over anything related to politics. While I have voted Republican on the national level since 1980, people respond with the meanest things when I say that Barak Obama is my President and that I have been willing to at least listen to him.
Some time between 1980 and now, many people have decided to demonize everything the other party does or says. It didn't used to be that way. It doesn't have to remain that way.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 12:37:33 PM
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lightbeamrider
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
Just like "bi-partisanship", "civility" is defined as agreeing with the Left.
So, no I will not be taking the pledge
''You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?'' John the Baptist.
2 Peter 2:12... ''But these like unreasoning animals...'' Also Jude 10.
Where is all the civility? All the love? They lie to us to get their hands deeper in our pockets and expect civility in return. As they make power grabs for our freedom. No thanks.
To accept a favor is to sell one's liberty.
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 1:06:41 PM
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morningmike
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I don't understand you people. Since when is agreeing to debate civilly like grownups (something which I see lacking more and more on this board) akin to "giving in" and "get their hands deeper into our pockets?"
"Bi-partisanship and civility defined as agreeing with the left?"
Let's see, I'm a Democrat...so if I agree to be civil in my debate with a republican, I'm agreeing with him, or giving in? Nope.
But you know what? From civil debate sometimes comes the opportunity to re-think something you've held (wrongly) as truth, or at least considering another point of view. Of course, if you're not interested in that sort of thing, I guess it doesn't matter.
God help us!
Mike
_____________________________
"They aren't afraid of you...they're afraid of what you represent."
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 1:12:16 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5534
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
Just like "bi-partisanship", "civility" is defined as agreeing with the Left.
So, no I will not be taking the pledge
That's the problem with all this.
I take the pledge and am seen as sticking my head
in the sand, then the opposing ideology runs over
my body..........LOL
In order to make a pledge like that, both sides would
have to agree to the definition of the words being used.
I agree with Soxfan, and besides that, making an oath
is a violation of Torah............LOL In case we have forgotten.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 1:14:34 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5534
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: morningmike
I don't understand you people. Since when is agreeing to debate civilly like grownups (something which I see lacking more and more on this board) akin to "giving in" and "get their hands deeper into our pockets?"
"Bi-partisanship and civility defined as agreeing with the left?"
Let's see, I'm a Democrat...so if I agree to be civil in my debate with a republican, I'm agreeing with him, or giving in? Nope.
But you know what? From civil debate sometimes comes the opportunity to re-think something you've held (wrongly) as truth, or at least considering another point of view. Of course, if you're not interested in that sort of thing, I guess it doesn't matter.
God help us!
Mike
I can pledge to be civil with Mike as he can take the same pledge.
There has to be civility on both parties part for there to be civility.
You can turn your cheek all you want. You will be slapped, and
the slapper thinks he's won.
But, I agree with Mike.
quote:
"Bi-partisanship and civility defined as agreeing with the left?"
This is the official view of the Pelosies and Barney Fwanks of the world.
Much talk, and no backing the talk. All members of Congress should be
at the table and their views considered as it takes all members to represent
all Americans.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 1:49:42 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3665
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: Concerto
The U.S. does not have a civility problem, it has a sin problem...
When I grew up in the late 50s and 60s, politicians from both sides of the aisle would go out for dinner and invited each other to parties. Friends of my family were both Democrat and Republican and I can never remember political arguments even though they discussed politics.
Today, people will get angry, loud, and rude over anything related to politics. While I have voted Republican on the national level since 1980, people respond with the meanest things when I say that Barak Obama is my President and that I have been willing to at least listen to him.
Some time between 1980 and now, many people have decided to demonize everything the other party does or says. It didn't used to be that way. It doesn't have to remain that way.
Ditto
_____________________________
I know when there is a trouble, and when there is not a trouble, and you may rest assured that there is a trouble.---- Inspector Jacques Clouseau
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 2:13:22 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6716
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
There has to be civility on both parties part for there to be civility.
You can turn your cheek all you want. You will be slapped, and
the slapper thinks he's won.
Carl, do other people have to treat you the way you want to be treated before you can treat them they way you want to be treated (also known as the Golden Rule)? I don't recall Christ setting such a condition to our behavior.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 2:34:08 PM
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rlj
Posts: 3930
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I joined. I've decided that I want to be salt and light when it comes to this and not use the actions of others to determine how I will live and conduct myself.
_____________________________
Thbbbt!!!!
A video of our cat and kitten:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ycCndVNctA
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 2:53:40 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1140
Joined: 4/14/2005
From: ...the beautiful Sonoran Desert
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I tried joining the group...but ran into technical difficulties.
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 3:02:59 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6716
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
I tried joining the group...but ran into technical difficulties.
Click the link again and see if it now shows "Pending" instead of "Join"
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 3:57:32 PM
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Johnny_
Posts: 755
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
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Mr. Eutychus, your an honorable man. I have joined the Civility Project because I think its important for us to talk the talk and walk the walk. The issue of civility is not about being democrat or republican, conservative or liberal, black or white. The issue of civility is about living up to the standards set forth in scripture and setting an example for others to follow.
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 4:01:47 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6716
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
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Thank you for the kind words, Johnny, but it is Fritz who should be applauded for introducing this idea to us!
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Restoring Civility: Will You Take the Pledge? - 9/23/2009 4:05:02 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5534
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
There has to be civility on both parties part for there to be civility.
You can turn your cheek all you want. You will be slapped, and
the slapper thinks he's won.
Carl, do other people have to treat you the way you want to be treated before you can treat them they way you want to be treated (also known as the Golden Rule)? I don't recall Christ setting such a condition to our behavior.
No, that isn't what I'm saying.
Our desire is civility..................
(A) is civil.............(B) is outrageous.
1/2 of a twosome does not make civility.
We can be civil, but the situation isn't.
Hope that clarifies.
I treat everyone the same.
Those who have tried to destroy me can walk
through the door and I still treat them the same
way I did before.
In forums, it seems that when someone does not
agree, instead of discussing it, we start making personal
attacks..............the only time I am grieved over this is
when I succumb to it myself. In other words, I make myself
sick...........LOL. really.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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