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When does a debate become "foolish arguments"? - 9/25/2009 12:01:46 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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quote:
The Heart of the Debate vs. the Heart of the Gospel
Katherine Britton - Crosswalk.com News & Culture Editor
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.
Titus 3:9
"Well, I'm not sure Barack Obama isn't the antichrist. The Bible says to be on guard against the evil one. And given his policies of late - and this video I saw on YouTube - you ought to consider the implications" ...
"How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" ...
"WHAT?! This church doesn't believe in infant baptism?! The Presbyterian tradition goes all the way back to the early church, how can you not see that?" ...
"So, could God make a rock so big he couldn't lift it?"
It's true, pursuing a full understanding of Scripture necessitates some conversation and debate with fellow believers. How else will iron sharpen iron if we aren't willing to engage in lively - and loving - exchange? We can never assume that our own wisdom is the final word on spiritual matters.
But there's a problem. If we're not careful, our iron-sharpening-iron debates degenerate. Almost before we recognize it, our hunger for knowledge becomes its own end.
During my freshman year of college at a small Christian school, I was often drawn into theological "debates." The conversation often included predestination, but was just as likely to include some esoteric unknowable like whether God could make a rock so big that even he couldn't lift it. Initially, the polemic in me enjoyed these intellectual tête-à-têtes. Like many others, I was driven by a desire to see the Bible in the right way, and I learned to appreciate some differing viewpoints on some topics. But the thrill of scoring a point on a verbal sparring partner was a little addicting.
Read the rest of The Heart of the Debate vs. the Heart of the Gospel
Thought this was an interesting article and it kinda piggy backs on The Civility Project. (More about that here...)
When does a debate become "foolish arguments"?
_____________________________
Fred "Fritz" Alberti
Director of Social Media
fritz@salemwebnetwork.com
Read today's Bible verse from my favorite online Bible
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 9/25/2009 2:07:50 PM
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doinkdom
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Debates are foolish when opinion/emotions trump scripture.
Debates are foolish when one or more parties stop listening.
Debates are foolish when it becomes more about being right than righteous.
I know there are other reasons as well, these just came to mind.
_____________________________
Thanksgiving dinners take eighteen hours to prepare.
They are consumed in twelve minutes.
Half-times take twelve minutes.
This is not coincidence.
~Erma Bombeck
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 9/25/2009 2:34:18 PM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
Debates are foolish when opinion/emotions trump scripture.
Or, for that matter, when opinion/emotions trump/vested interests observable and verifiable realities. Bring up a topic that touches on pocketbook issues, and a lot of common sense flies out the window.
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 9/25/2009 3:04:30 PM
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terryjohn
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The funniest part is when one of the combatants is trying to understand the other and the other simply doesn't want the answer their combatants questions. They argue when there is no one to argue with.
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 9/27/2009 5:58:20 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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As I have mentioned before here, debate helped me to move on from a damaged church to belief in the One True G-d. My husband and I would challenge one another's beliefs on a subject and debate it out, using Scripture, until we got to the bottom of it. Debate is a great tool, used properly.
I do admit, however, that my personal definitions of debate and argue are two very different ideas. I see debate as a tool used to reach a conclusion, whether a singular one or differing ones. Arguing has no such noble purpose.
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 9/27/2009 6:28:13 AM
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buckifn
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When the blood starts running faster than you can bandage the wounds I guess.
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 9/27/2009 8:32:53 AM
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makarizo
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Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth. but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment so that it will give grace to those who hear.
DO NOT GRIEVE THE HOLY SPIRIT of God. by Whom you were sealed for the day of redemption
Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put way from you. along with all malice.
Be kind to one another. tender-hearted, forgiving each other. just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.
I think debates "degenerate" from unwholesome words. and from assumptive language
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 9/27/2009 9:57:33 AM
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SavedByGraceMD
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Fritzpw_Admin
When does a debate become "foolish arguments"?
Seems I have been involved in quite a few of these over the past 2 years. Hmmm, makes me think...lol.
Anyway, I was just recently involved in a "debate" and I use that term loosely. Of course I was battling the ever present, so much wiser than I atheist...so debate went out the window quite quickly. Then it turned to name calling, and other childish pursuits.
To me a debate becomes a foolish argument whenever one of the combatants comes into the argument/debate with a presupposition that they are unwilling to reason with. If I could answer every question you come up with with in a logical way, and yet you still fail to see or move from your position....if you are unwilling to learn anything from it...then you came to battle, not debate.
I have seen many a topic on this forum turn into a "debate", yet most of the time we have shown unwilling to budge from our position.
But mostly...the "foolish arguments" are with unbelievers whose sole purpose is to trip someone up in their walk. They choose not to debate, but wage mortal combat.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
http://followtheleader-mat1624.blogspot.com/
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 9/27/2009 10:59:24 AM
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Szaftoo
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From: So. Calif.
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When people are passionate about what they believe, a debate can become an argument and then it starts to lose some of its effectiveness. It's not listening and just trying to be right. I think what is sad is when Christians argue with each other and then the focus is no longer on the Lord and servng the world.
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 9/27/2009 2:39:48 PM
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Ps103
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I pretty much think they *all* are, but that is just me.
I do not see a whole lot of discussion about essential doctrines, since the Statement of Faith for this community is pretty well laid out and includes the "biggies."
So what you are left with are arguments about interpretation or practice, with all sides digging in like donkeys and refusing to admit that there is the slightest possibility--not that they may not be any more "right" than the other side, but that the other side has any merit whatsoever and is an affront to God Himself.
I guess I just don't see the point.
Posting with the intention of getting others aggravated is just trolling to me, and that is what too many of the threads become. Sometimes it more reminds me of gangs of thugs walking down city streets yelling out insults to passersby than discourse between Christians.
It really is sad.
Even if I *am* right about a particular point, is it more important for me to verbally decimate someone who disagrees with me, or to pray that if the person is dangerously wrong that the Holy Spirit draw them onto the right path? If it is more important that I am "proved" right, then I have a spiritual problem, because I have made myself into an idol, regardless of whether or not I think I am "fighting for God."
Most people, when presented with a belligerent opponent insisting that they "admit they are wrong" will stop listening completely, so any hope I had of reaching them is lost.
I do not debate atheists or agnostics, either. I just pray for them and go on. They are not seeking Truth, they are seeking fights, and we are told not to cast pearls before swine.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 9/27/2009 9:44:03 PM
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PinkCarnations
Posts: 10816
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quote:
doinkdom
Debates are foolish when opinion/emotions trump scripture.
Debates are foolish when one or more parties stop listening.
Debates are foolish when it becomes more about being right than righteous.
I know there are other reasons as well, these just came to mind.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
I pretty much think they *all* are, but that is just me.
I do not see a whole lot of discussion about essential doctrines, since the Statement of Faith for this community is pretty well laid out and includes the "biggies."
So what you are left with are arguments about interpretation or practice, with all sides digging in like donkeys and refusing to admit that there is the slightest possibility--not that they may not be any more "right" than the other side, but that the other side has any merit whatsoever and is an affront to God Himself.
I guess I just don't see the point.
Posting with the intention of getting others aggravated is just trolling to me, and that is what too many of the threads become. Sometimes it more reminds me of gangs of thugs walking down city streets yelling out insults to passersby than discourse between Christians.
It really is sad.
Even if I *am* right about a particular point, is it more important for me to verbally decimate someone who disagrees with me, or to pray that if the person is dangerously wrong that the Holy Spirit draw them onto the right path? If it is more important that I am "proved" right, then I have a spiritual problem, because I have made myself into an idol, regardless of whether or not I think I am "fighting for God."
Most people, when presented with a belligerent opponent insisting that they "admit they are wrong" will stop listening completely, so any hope I had of reaching them is lost.
I do not debate atheists or agnostics, either. I just pray for them and go on. They are not seeking Truth, they are seeking fights, and we are told not to cast pearls before swine.
Very much agree with both of you.
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Thank you Veterans.
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 9/28/2009 8:46:32 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 1886
Joined: 4/16/2005
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It was considerd polite, at one time, not to discuss politics or religion.
Its not anymore. The problem is not the subject, its manners.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 9/29/2009 10:11:25 AM
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Troubledmom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wawhoo73112
quote:
When does a debate become "foolish arguments"?
When truth is no longer presented in love.
When strife begins, then the flesh has taken the place of the fruit of the Spirit, and the "I am RIGHT, and you are stupid" attitude begins.
This is assuming that the "debate" began on a subject of significance, and was not a subject of obvious "foolishness" to discuss and debate to start with LOL! IMHO~
This is a very good answer! and so is:
quote:
I pretty much think they *all* are, but that is just me.
I do not see a whole lot of discussion about essential doctrines, since the Statement of Faith for this community is pretty well laid out and includes the "biggies."
So what you are left with are arguments about interpretation or practice, with all sides digging in like donkeys and refusing to admit that there is the slightest possibility--not that they may not be any more "right" than the other side, but that the other side has any merit whatsoever and is an affront to God Himself.
I guess I just don't see the point.
Posting with the intention of getting others aggravated is just trolling to me, and that is what too many of the threads become. Sometimes it more reminds me of gangs of thugs walking down city streets yelling out insults to passersby than discourse between Christians.
It really is sad.
Even if I *am* right about a particular point, is it more important for me to verbally decimate someone who disagrees with me, or to pray that if the person is dangerously wrong that the Holy Spirit draw them onto the right path? If it is more important that I am "proved" right, then I have a spiritual problem, because I have made myself into an idol, regardless of whether or not I think I am "fighting for God."
Most people, when presented with a belligerent opponent insisting that they "admit they are wrong" will stop listening completely, so any hope I had of reaching them is lost.
I do not debate atheists or agnostics, either. I just pray for them and go on. They are not seeking Truth, they are seeking fights, and we are told not to cast pearls before swine.
IMO we each need to walk our path, With God according to what HE convicts our hearts, and if someone else is convicted in a different way, that works for them, who are we to say?
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 9/29/2009 12:50:13 PM
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allisonbrett
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A debate becomes a foolish argument when it:
1. Becomes personal and not about the topic at hand
2. When one refuses to accept that the entire world does not evolve round their own beliefs and prespectives
3. When one/both refuse to agree to disagree
Beating someone over the head with ones opinion never pursuades or wins discussions. It also never leads to salvation. I've heard more "cram it down your throat" salvation messages that most assurdedly sent the lost running into traffic.
There seems to be a real selfishness and lack of respect for anyone else today. We, as a society seem more focused on ourselves than ever before. We've lost empathy and compassion and exchanged it for arrogance and stupidity. We also lost our sense of what's right and wong and manner (which were critical in generations past) have been replaced by the attitude "its more about me than you" ideals. Overall, it like we do what is right in our own eyes rather than what is right in God's.
_____________________________
Allison
A work in progress so please be patient, God is still working on me. Ouch, it sure is painful!
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 9/29/2009 1:38:07 PM
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doinkdom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: allisonbrett
2. When one refuses to accept that the entire world does not evolve round their own beliefs and prespectives
what do you mean? doesn't revolve around me? sure it does...
LOL 
_____________________________
Thanksgiving dinners take eighteen hours to prepare.
They are consumed in twelve minutes.
Half-times take twelve minutes.
This is not coincidence.
~Erma Bombeck
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 9/29/2009 4:25:55 PM
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Focusing
Posts: 5181
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quote:
When does a debate become "foolish arguments"?
When respect for others disappears
When insults and demeaning comments are the response
When someone chooses to make a joke out of or belittle another for asking a serious question
When someone states that God's Word doesn't belong in the conversation
Eph 4:29-32
_____________________________
Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you.
Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful.
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 9/30/2009 11:28:56 AM
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RogerBennett_Fan
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I think debates become foolish arguments when those in it cease to use common sense in the points that they are trying to make. (Proverbs 14:7)
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"Let's be known for what we do believe in rather than what we don't." - Roger Bennett
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 9/30/2009 12:12:50 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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When it becomes about winning and not about edification.
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Some want to live within the sound of church or chapel bell; I want to run a rescue shop within a yard of hell."
- C.L. Studd
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 10/1/2009 7:43:48 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 1886
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Debate becomes foolish arguements when...y'all don't agree with me.
Life...is simple.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 10/1/2009 9:55:01 AM
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BelleWeather
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Joined: 7/29/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Fritzpw_Admin
When does a debate become "foolish arguments"?
"A fanatic is one who cannot change his mind and will not change the subject."
--Sir Winston Churchill
_____________________________
We think we fathom the depths
when we are just skimming the surface with our finger.
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 10/1/2009 10:16:18 AM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 1263
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Debate becomes foolish arguements when...y'all don't agree with me.
Life...is simple.
Now that should tell you something SonInMe1...lol.
Thanks for the chuckle.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
http://followtheleader-mat1624.blogspot.com/
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