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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 10/1/2009 10:38:36 AM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 1766
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When fools are involved.
His intentions and desires are evil.
Pro 12:16 A fool's wrath is presently known: but a prudent man covereth shame.
Pro 10:23 It is as sport to a fool to do mischief: but a man of understanding hath wisdom.
He’s obstinate and stubborn in his ways.
Pro 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
Pro 14:16 A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident.
He is self-destructive and sure to fall.
Pro 10:8 The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall.
Pro 13:16 Every prudent man dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open his folly.
He’s angry, arrogant, deceitful, and malicious.
Pro 10:23 It is as sport to a fool to do mischief: but a man of understanding hath wisdom.
Pro 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
Pro 14:16 A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident.
Pro 17:7 Excellent speech becometh not a fool: much less do lying lips a prince.
Pro 18:2 A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.
Pro 18:6 A fool's lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes.
Pro 29:11 A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.
He refuses to desire truth.
Pro 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
Pro 17:16 Wherefore is there a price in the hand of a fool to get wisdom, seeing he hath no heart to it?
Pro 18:2 A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.
Pro 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
_____________________________
< Don't make fun of my deer. It's spethal!
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 10/7/2009 3:55:12 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 6323
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
I pretty much think they *all* are, but that is just me.
I do not see a whole lot of discussion about essential doctrines, since the Statement of Faith for this community is pretty well laid out and includes the "biggies."
So what you are left with are arguments about interpretation or practice, with all sides digging in like donkeys and refusing to admit that there is the slightest possibility--not that they may not be any more "right" than the other side, but that the other side has any merit whatsoever and is an affront to God Himself.
I guess I just don't see the point.
Posting with the intention of getting others aggravated is just trolling to me, and that is what too many of the threads become. Sometimes it more reminds me of gangs of thugs walking down city streets yelling out insults to passersby than discourse between Christians.
It really is sad.
Even if I *am* right about a particular point, is it more important for me to verbally decimate someone who disagrees with me, or to pray that if the person is dangerously wrong that the Holy Spirit draw them onto the right path? If it is more important that I am "proved" right, then I have a spiritual problem, because I have made myself into an idol, regardless of whether or not I think I am "fighting for God."
Most people, when presented with a belligerent opponent insisting that they "admit they are wrong" will stop listening completely, so any hope I had of reaching them is lost.
I do not debate atheists or agnostics, either. I just pray for them and go on. They are not seeking Truth, they are seeking fights, and we are told not to cast pearls before swine.
If anyone can answer the question better than this, I would truly love to read it.
_____________________________
At one time Jesus was my co-pilot. Things are much better now that He and I have changed seats.
<Me & my happyplate at Lobster Hut
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 10/8/2009 8:30:18 AM
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John_O
Posts: 7801
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It differs depending on the topic.
Edited TOS 6
In religion it happens when one or both depart from scripture. We find a lot of "feelings" involved in discussions, as in "I know scripture says that but it just doesn't feel right to me" Hogwash. Scripture says it, that settles it. Now interpretations may differ, and in some very rare circumstances both interpretations could be right (or more likely wrong). Every argument needs to be based on scripture.
In sports they all are. (I'm an adamant Green Bay Packers fan, but when it comes right down to it what does it matter that they are the greatest sports franchise ever to exist)
Between a man and wife they become foolish when emotions rule over logic. (The best the logical one can do is wait until the other one cools down and try again)
Almost all debates become foolish when the participants "agree to disagree". Walking away is fine, compromise is not. Either you are right or you are wrong. Either stand for what you believe in or change to the truth.
< Message edited by Kath -- 10/8/2009 8:54:59 AM >
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 10/8/2009 11:03:07 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3184
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From: being knit together in my mother's womb
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
In religion it happens when one or both depart from scripture. We find a lot of "feelings" involved in discussions, as in "I know scripture says that but it just doesn't feel right to me" Hogwash. Scripture says it, that settles it. Now interpretations may differ, and in some very rare circumstances both interpretations could be right (or more likely wrong). Every argument needs to be based on scripture.
Oh, yes. Religion strikes some of us at the very core of who we are! It is difficult to have been "saved" believing one thing and then to find that someone is saying that what we thought saved us was based upon some false religious assumption. My husband and I both went through that (and much more) and are still trying to figure some of it out. We talked about it again last night at dinner.
For the two of us, as I mentioned, debate has been a wonderful tool. The first time we tried it, however, I found myself with an attitude that I immediately saw had to go, and I think he saw this in himself, too, although we never discussed it. We both stopped the debate, because we saw that it was sinking into a level we did not want in our marriage.
The next time we came together for debate, we were prepared to recognize what could happen and to refuse to allow it. From then on, we did very well in our debates, I must admit. We have learned a lot, changed a lot, and came closer together as a couple.
We had to do this, because we were in a belief system that was very poor. He was reared in it, too, but at the same time, he was reared by parents who put what the Bible said first, before what the church said. He was spared a lot of the misery I got, because in my family, the church was god. Period. Debate helped us both to sort out the Truth of the Bible.
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 10/8/2009 11:35:39 AM
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cposey
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Debates are foolish as soon as they start, concerning HIS truth. Debates are great for worldly issues.
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 10/8/2009 11:45:26 AM
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cposey
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I could see biblical debate being worthwhile in only one case. People with opposing views coming into the debate with an open mind and heart to receive the truth from HIM. If the debate is not purposed for reaching the truth and agreeing on the truth by allowing HIM to teach us, then it causes division. In Galations chapter 5, division is a byproduct of the flesh, not God.
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 10/8/2009 11:50:27 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3184
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From: being knit together in my mother's womb
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cposey
I could see biblical debate being worthwhile in only one case. People with opposing views coming into the debate with an open mind and heart to receive the truth from HIM. If the debate is not purposed for reaching the truth and agreeing on the truth by allowing HIM to teach us, then it causes division. In Galations chapter 5, division is a byproduct of the flesh, not God.
Personally, I see no good reason for debate other than
quote:
People with opposing views coming into the debate with an open mind and heart to receive the truth from HIM and bringing an unbeliever or one who has a misunderstanding of the Bible to the truth that they are resisting.
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 10/8/2009 12:12:08 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2252
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From: Kansas
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After about the third post...if you have done you home work, what else is left to say? Nothing...so we just start to repeat ourselves. 
In Messiah,
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 10/9/2009 6:47:04 AM
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cposey
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So if the general consensus is that debates are foolish, why do we as Christians accept different denominations and doctrines?
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 10/9/2009 9:36:06 AM
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John_O
Posts: 7801
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cposey
So if the general consensus is that debates are foolish, why do we as Christians accept different denominations and doctrines?
I think you are misinterpreting the posts. Debate is not foolish until certain things happen (as detailed in the posts above)
If Christians are not allowed to debate, that is, voice our opinions, then all that is left is either armed resistance or surrender to evil. I don't believe the scriptures tell us to allow the innocents to be enslaved or killed when we can speak against the evil and save at least some.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 10/9/2009 9:56:45 AM
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cposey
Posts: 307
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: cposey
So if the general consensus is that debates are foolish, why do we as Christians accept different denominations and doctrines?
I think you are misinterpreting the posts. Debate is not foolish until certain things happen (as detailed in the posts above)
If Christians are not allowed to debate, that is, voice our opinions, then all that is left is either armed resistance or surrender to evil. I don't believe the scriptures tell us to allow the innocents to be enslaved or killed when we can speak against the evil and save at least some.
I am referring to within the body of Christ itself. What I see in the bible is the Jesus says that He is the Way, Truth and Life. My question is why debate over Jesus and accept different denominations and doctrines within the body of Christ
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 10/9/2009 1:08:12 PM
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John_O
Posts: 7801
Joined: 9/5/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cposey
I am referring to within the body of Christ itself. What I see in the bible is the Jesus says that He is the Way, Truth and Life. My question is why debate over Jesus and accept different denominations and doctrines within the body of Christ
Oh. OK. Still debates can be a very useful tool for getting to the truth in scripture. We all tend to read it the way it makes most sense to our pre-established beliefs and seldom see it from any other angles. Debate opens those angles up to us OR lets us more firmly base our view in scripture (the best way to learn a topic is to teach it. The second best way is to defend it in debate)
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 10/9/2009 9:02:16 PM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 1766
Joined: 2/4/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cposey
So if the general consensus is that debates are foolish, why do we as Christians accept different denominations and doctrines?
I don't think this is the consensus at all. The Gospel are full of debates! Even Jesus debated....
_____________________________
< Don't make fun of my deer. It's spethal!
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: When does a debate become "foolish arguments&q... - 10/10/2009 12:16:28 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3184
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From: being knit together in my mother's womb
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Attending my shul could apparently make some of you very uncomfortable. We have many debates there, and the idea is always to get to the truth. Debate about biblical issues is good and righteous, when this is the intention. Debate about how to live out biblical principles is also good, especially since everything is not spelled out in clear terms, with regard to obeying fully. Furthermore, some people simply have more knowledge about some biblical things, so debate often offers the participants to learn what is right and good.
Where I attend, we often debate in during the services (using an open mic). If a service goes by without at least a little debate, I wonder if we were listening. We often debate in the classes. We often debate in common conversation. But debate among friends who love the L-rd, with the purpose of better understanding, is time well-spent.
When Messiah was calling the Pharisees vipers, etc, it is unlikely that He just walked up and started railing on them. Debate was used then as a way of learning Scripture. We just follow suit today.
When Messiah went to Jerusalem at His bat mitzvah age, He debated in the Temple. That was how people learned the facts, how to state them clearly, and how to counter unbelievers.
It is mainly that we have lost our way when we follow people about, looking for every little thing we disagree with, to have occasion to trounce or harass them. Sometimes, people have a bitter spirit; debate with them is often mere arguing and leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. True and humane debate is to be sought with the intention of gaining something in the L-rd.
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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