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What is the Christian's role in conservation? - 10/5/2009 11:51:05 AM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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quote:
Why Christians Should Save the Pandas
Chuck Colson - BreakPoint
Five years ago, I told BreakPoint listeners about the relationship between people and the giant panda. I pointed out an unfortunate truth about this star of zoos and fundraising campaigns: Almost everything it does seems designed to ensure its extinction.
People didn't like hearing discouraging words about this bamboo-munching icon of the wild then, and they don't like hearing it now—but at least I've got some company.
That company is Chris Packham, a British naturalist and nature-show host. In an interview, Packham said that it was time to "pull the plug" on the panda and "let them go with a degree of dignity." He said that the panda "of its own accord, has gone down an evolutionary cul-de-sac."
That "cul-de-sac" includes a diet comprised almost entirely of bamboo, a substance that both lacking in nutrients and difficult for the panda's carnivorous digestive system to process. It includes difficulty in mating, tiny infants, and mothers whose maternal instincts include rolling over onto their newborns and suffocating them—that is, when they aren't neglecting them.
Read the rest of Why Christians Should Save the Pandas
Do you think it is being a poor steward of our resources to spend so much time & money on an animal that even if left to its own devices would have become extinct?
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RE: What is the Christian's role in conservation? - 10/5/2009 11:58:39 AM
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stampinlady
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I think you can have a good balance. I just read Isa. 24 for devotions the other day and it talks about the Earth and everything on it bien destroyed for God's judgement.
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RE: What is the Christian's role in conservation? - 10/5/2009 12:49:21 PM
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stellaluna
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At this point in history, I don't know if we can conclusively say any species would become extinct of its own accord--taking into consideration centuries of various human interference. I think Christians are called to be good stewards of the earth in general. I think conversations like this are best undertaken by answering the question "What must we give up to ensure the survival of this particular animal?" If the cost is too great, then I don't think it's sinful or against God to let nature take its course, as it were.
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RE: What is the Christian's role in conservation? - 10/5/2009 1:03:47 PM
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LCannon
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What 'I think' is a moot point. For whatever reason, subsistence, survival, greed or presumption, the world's ecosystems have been in decline since the Industrial Revolution of the 19th century from the wholesale slaughter wildlife and their habitats to the rape of resources for commercial consumption. Isaiah 24:16 says(thanx, Deb), 'From the ends of the earth we hear songs of praise, of glory to the Righteous One. But I say, I pine away, I pine away. Woe is me! For the treacherous deal treacherously, the treacherous deal very treacherously.' That's the quandary we find ourselves. The last mass migration of large animals in Africa('60 Minutes', 10/4)will be predicted to be gone in a generation(or less)unless the forest remains intact from cultivation. It's not a Christian/secular reality it's a world(global)reality and this reality has been largely by a disregard for another's resource.
< Message edited by LCannon -- 10/5/2009 1:16:13 PM >
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RE: What is the Christian's role in conservation? - 10/7/2009 1:19:13 PM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
I confess, when I see the state of the world today... I'm glad that I don't have children to answer to...
God loved the created world enough to redeem a race of caretakers for it. Re-read John 3:16. If God considers redeemed people to be the solution to the problems of the world, then Christians who have large families (and raise them in the admonition and knowledge of the Lord) are on the correct side of the equation, net assets to the created order.
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RE: What is the Christian's role in conservation? - 10/7/2009 1:57:35 PM
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sharonjef2007
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From the first human Adam, we were put in a position of stewardship over the earth. That includes animals. It is a question of wise stewardship in my opinion. My problem is with organizations like PETA who put animals on the same level as humans. That is obviously not God's intention!
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RE: What is the Christian's role in conservation? - 10/7/2009 4:45:29 PM
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stellaluna
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And of course, groups like ELF are breaking the law and shouldn't be supported by Christians. IMO
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RE: What is the Christian's role in conservation? - 10/7/2009 5:55:27 PM
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rawr.ben
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Why do people only want to save the cute animals?
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RE: What is the Christian's role in conservation? - 10/7/2009 8:25:08 PM
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manhattan42
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quote:
Do you think it is being a poor steward of our resources to spend so much time & money on an animal that even if left to its own devices would have become extinct?
There is complete fault in this 'logic'.
It is non sequitur and simply does not follow.
Because if the panda, whales, tigers and other species had indeed been "left alone"....and not had their habitats and food supplies compromised by human encroachment, they would not be endangered in the first place.
Precisely because humans have stripped these species of their food sources, deforested their lands needed for protected reproduction, and overhunted them....THIS is why they are endgangered and not by any faults of their own.
It is also precisley because man has been the prime culprit in their demise, that man needs to be the prime actor in their preservation.
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RE: What is the Christian's role in conservation? - 10/8/2009 6:44:00 PM
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tacitus
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Diversity is a good thing, and should be preserved. Who knows what things we can learn from animal and plant species that might benefit humanity in future, especially in terms of the medical sciences.
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RE: What is the Christian's role in conservation? - 10/9/2009 8:55:28 AM
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iluvatar
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Mr Colson (or Mr Packham) is also ignoring the role that these larger animals play in the food chain. Maybe not so much for the Panda's, but larger predators such as tigers and whales serve to keep other animals populations at bay. For example, w/o predators such as wolves, deer populations have taken off in some areas of the US, leading to issues of herd starvation and increased traffic accidents.
-Dan.
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RE: What is the Christian's role in conservation? - 10/10/2009 11:15:43 AM
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bolt.
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quote:
That "cul-de-sac" includes a diet comprised almost entirely of bamboo, a substance that both lacking in nutrients and difficult for the panda's carnivorous digestive system to process. It includes difficulty in mating, tiny infants, and mothers whose maternal instincts include rolling over onto their newborns and suffocating them—that is, when they aren't neglecting them.
Since I don't think Pandas evolved, then I'm not sure how I can believe that they've gotten themselves into an 'evolutionary cul-de-sac'. Perhaps they've made some adaptations as a species... and it's odd for a carnavore to be addicted to non-nutritive plants.
Should we 'save' them. I think so, becasue we are called to be stewards of creation... and that involves helping along 'the weak and lame' of the animal kingdom. That they have become twisted away from their design to the point of species survival threat is clearly an evidence of evil and corruption in creation, and I hope that some of us are engaged in a calling to be attempting to mitigate, or remidy that.
On the other hand, there is a lot of human suffering going on, and I don't pretend to know how resources and money should be divvied up among competing priorities.
If I wasn't so addicted to my middle-class-western lifestyle, perhaps there would be enough money/time/energy/resources to go around to all worthwhile endeavours. Since there's not, I really don't know that there is an answer that is completely ethical... I don't think having none of it go to the care and assistance of the Panda is ethical, but I don't think that people suffering in life and/or experiencing eternal death is something that should be sacrificed for the good of a member of the animal kingdom.
Boy, that was a lot of words for a non-answer wasn't it?
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RE: What is the Christian's role in conservation? - 10/18/2009 3:25:54 AM
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agapeflight
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Fritzpw_Admin
Do you think it is being a poor steward of our resources to spend so much time & money on an animal that even if left to its own devices would have become extinct?
Years ago I went fishing at a little place called Flapjack Lake high in the Olympic National forest. Beautiful little double lake fed by a cascade off od a very high peak. Then it leaves the second little lake and cascades down the side of the mountain. I think it is like 4500 feet, so naturally there were no fish in thes lakes. Then somebody dropped in some cutthroat and some brookies and a few rainbow. Well the place became even more of an awesome camping spot. When we were up their the first time I talked to a ranger who told me there was no size limit and no bag limit in those lakes because they were hoping people would fish them out. Why? Well because originally there had been no fish in there. you see that is how some of these young greens view things is that human involvement to change anything is something like a sin. Nonsense.
Now on the other hand you are talking about how best to appropriate financial resources. There has to be some limit and the issues are not really separate. Human population is the number one cause of enviromental degradation and we cannot infer that God told Adam to trash the place. And, more affluent populations tend to pollute less and live more in balance with the natural systems. So this all agrues for some spending on conservation. My view is that although people are more important to God than animals, being eternal souls, we still should view it with sadness when something God has uniquely made and said was good is being destroyed because we need to build a couple more condos.
So I guess to some extent I would agree both with stocking trout in Flapjack Lake and protecting the Panda.
Later.
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RE: What is the Christian's role in conservation? - 10/18/2009 9:16:27 AM
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rcjames
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I am an avid hunter and fisherman, and because I love the outdoors and hunting/fishing so much I am also active in conservation.
I belong to and strongly support some conservation groups such as Ducks Unlimited, Gulf Coast Conservation League, etc. They have brought many populations of animals and waterfowl back from the brink of extiction to great abundance for future generation to also enjoy the sport that I love so dearly.
I have nothing but disdain for groups such as ELF, PETA, and other rebel rousers groups that do nothing but seek publicity and donations, and do virtually nothing to help improve habitat and populations of our natural resources.
Thanks
RC
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RE: What is the Christian's role in conservation? - 10/20/2009 1:04:51 AM
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zamdad
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If evolution is true, and the panda has entered the evolutionalry cul-de-sac, who are we to get involved? My other question is, are we wanting to save the panda because it will make us feel better? Or, is it because God wants us to save the bear?
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RE: What is the Christian's role in conservation? - 10/20/2009 3:12:14 AM
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tacitus
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The panda is only endangered because human activity is destroying its habitat. It's nothing to do with evolution. Since we are the ones causing the problem, we certainly should get involved.
quote:
Or, is it because God wants us to save the bear?
Dunno. Did God want you to spare that last spider you stepped on, or did He want you to kill it? You can ask such questions of everything you do, but it's not going to get you very far.
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RE: What is the Christian's role in conservation? - 10/20/2009 10:34:19 PM
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zamdad
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quote:
tacitus
The panda is only endangered because human activity is destroying its habitat. It's nothing to do with evolution. Since we are the ones causing the problem, we certainly should get involved.
Humans are to blame for everything, Afterall, we're the only ones who can recognize a problem. We're the ones who conjured the "theory" of evolution and bought into it as if it's fact. We're the ones who've bought the "theory" of global warming or climate change or whatever we're gonna call it now.
While we are to be good stewards of the land, buying into the psychobabble of those who hold more degrees than common sense is not being a godly steward, it's bowing to idols.
Problem is, we've forgotten how nature works because we've become urbanized. Everything we think we know about nature comes from TV.
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RE: What is the Christian's role in conservation? - 10/21/2009 10:19:16 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tacitus
The panda is only endangered because human activity is destroying its habitat. It's nothing to do with evolution. Since we are the ones causing the problem, we certainly should get involved.
you are assuming that God had no idea that another of His creations, man, would need to use the former habitat of the Panda.
If God want the Panda to survive, I am sure he is capable of dooing so.
Thanks
RC
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RE: What is the Christian's role in conservation? - 10/21/2009 12:19:58 PM
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navyblueret
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
tacitus
The panda is only endangered because human activity is destroying its habitat. It's nothing to do with evolution. Since we are the ones causing the problem, we certainly should get involved.
Humans are to blame for everything, Afterall, we're the only ones who can recognize a problem. We're the ones who conjured the "theory" of evolution and bought into it as if it's fact. We're the ones who've bought the "theory" of global warming or climate change or whatever we're gonna call it now.
While we are to be good stewards of the land, buying into the psychobabble of those who hold more degrees than common sense is not being a godly steward, it's bowing to idols.
Problem is, we've forgotten how nature works because we've become urbanized. Everything we think we know about nature comes from TV.
zamdad says well. I do marvel at the almost idolic attitude of the conservationist mentality. One would think that not one species went extinct, until man started taking over planet earth (Millions of yrs ago, they think). Yes, we are to husband the world of animals, but not to the suffering of the human race. Example: A minnow has caused much of the California farmland to lose the water supply sorely needed for food, and the minnow is so well protected, we dare not try to catch and eat one. God knows how to protect His creations, as rcjames states.
We banter about conservation, when we should be witnessing about Messiah, Jesus, to those in danger of becoming extinctly existing in Eternity, separated from God, not a part of His Royal Family, partly because we are so worried about a minnow, or a Panda bear.
Nuff said.
In Messiah. Arley
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