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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/12/2009 11:03:38 PM
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jjbird
Posts: 515
Joined: 5/20/2009
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If they are living together they are sleeping together......they are not living according to the faith they profess and they are setting a horrible example as well to other young couples.
If you love them you will challenge them on it biblically!
Ephesians 5:3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people.
I was engaged to be married when I first started becoming interested in studying the bible and becoming a Christian. I had men in my life who lovingly challenged me on it from the scriptures. I immediately moved out and stopped having sex with my fiance'.
What we were doing was WRONG! I repented and became a Christian and from that time on remained absolutely pure until I got married.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/13/2009 3:27:08 AM
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singpeace
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Jesus was called some pretty awful things because he went to the homes of publicans and sinners. Who knows what the situation was between the two people who married... you know... where Jesus turned water into wine?
He also said to the religious leaders that only he who was without sin had a right to throw the first stone at the woman/adulteress.
It is a sin, indeed. I believe there are certain instances where we have to confront people. But this sounds like they know in their hearts it is wrong. Let the Holy Spirit be the One to place conviction on them. Just show them that unconditional love that Christ shows us all, and let the Lord worry about their discipline.
At least they are in Sunday School and church. That is great, indeed.
_____________________________
Psalm 123:1 Unto You do I lift up my eyes, O You Who are enthroned in heaven.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/13/2009 8:52:59 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 1524
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Actually, if they are fornicating, they should not be active...ie teaching or any other type of activity that places them in a position of authority no matter how small...which would include solos, choir etc......
Any other interpretation is a direct violation of what both Old and New Testaments teach.
Paul advises us to flee from sexual sin while he states to stand against any other sin. Wonder why?
A church atmosphere is no indication that the people in it do not sin.
quote:
He also said to the religious leaders that only he who was without sin had a right to throw the first stone at the woman/adulteress.
You have left out the second half of this narration. Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to go and sin no more. Sexual sin is not a joke and not just a bad habit. It is serious and has serious consequences
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/13/2009 9:59:14 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 6747
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
So step mom should go to pastor and say, we think our child is engaging in premarital sex please confront them?
I would think that mom should react as any other Christian in a similiar situation and go to those who are in error in all humility to try and lead them out of their sin; if they don't repent, then the Scriptures are very plain about the next steps.
The couple either repents or they are put out of the Church.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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Engaged couple living together - 10/13/2009 10:00:27 AM
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PinkCarnations
Posts: 10816
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
So step mom should go to pastor and say, we think our child is engaging in premarital sex please confront them?
I would think that mom should react as any other Christian in a similiar situation and go to those who are in error in all humility to try and lead them out of their sin; if they don't repent, then the Scriptures are very plain about the next steps.
The couple either repents or they are put out of the Church.
Thanks
RC
I agree.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/13/2009 11:08:09 AM
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allisonbrett
Posts: 837
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Thanks everyone for you input. I appreciate everyone's comments.
I've always been one to despise seeing compromising Christian's embracing sinful lifestyles and the world's morals and values. I have strongly encouraged my husband to speak to get them together about this issue and let our views known loud and clear. Yes, in the end it is their decision and they have to stand before God on this but as it's really between them and God but they should know that her father and I adamently disapprove of their decision. As step-mom I feel I'm walking a fine line between being a loving addition to her family and not stepping on parental roles. Her mom is fine with their living situation but her dad and I are not. I don't feel it the right thing to do to go to their pastor and tell him of their sins yet I don't know if anyone in their church has addressed the issue at all.
They have talked to the pastor about having the wedding at the church but are having her grandfather, an ordained minister preform the service. So I'm not sure if they'll have pre-marital counseling.
_____________________________
Allison
A work in progress so please be patient, God is still working on me. Ouch, it sure is painful!
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/13/2009 2:10:06 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1481
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
So step mom should go to pastor and say, we think our child is engaging in premarital sex please confront them?
I would think that mom should react as any other Christian in a similiar situation and go to those who are in error in all humility to try and lead them out of their sin; if they don't repent, then the Scriptures are very plain about the next steps.
The couple either repents or they are put out of the Church.
Thanks
RC
First they must ESTABLISH that they have sinned. And what is the church supposed to do with dating couples...should we call all suspicious couples before the pastor and say "couple, we're asking you point blank, tell us if you're sleeping together, because if you are, you must repent or leave the church" ?
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/13/2009 2:40:39 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6747
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
First they must ESTABLISH that they have sinned. And what is the church supposed to do with dating couples...should we call all suspicious couples before the pastor and say "couple, we're asking you point blank, tell us if you're sleeping together, because if you are, you must repent or leave the church" ?
If a couple is giving the "Appearance of evil" then yes, they should be confronted by the leadership about the possibility of that appeaerance being actual sin. Then they get the chance to straighten it out or to leave.
The OP (and step mother) of one of the couple seems to say they are in sin; so until she says different; then the couple has to repent or go.
Sin cannot be allowed to stand in the Body of Christ; period.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/13/2009 3:14:26 PM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
ps ...how do you establish the sin? Shall we check out her virginity? Or perhaps do a rape kit test for the presence of semen?
Honestly...........
Anytime that I have had to call a couple or an individual in about sin in thier lives; they have owned up to it, repented, spoke to the Church; and everythning turned out alright. In 46 years I have never had someone deny the sin that was in their lives.
The responsibility is on the leadership of the Church, the seriousness that membership is given, the seriousness that lying is given, and the love and grace of God towards repentant sinners. All the responsibility for troubles such as we are discussing starts with the leadership and their teachings, their examples, and thier willingness to do as Paul instructed Titus;
(2Ti 4:2) Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/13/2009 3:14:36 PM
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seagullplayer
Posts: 332
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It would appear she/they have no respect for you or your husband, for whatever reason.
Perhaps they have some respect for the grandfather that is planning to marry them?
Perhaps you could call him and see if he can make them see the light.
It is unfortunate that the fellowship they attend has allowed them into leadership positions.
If they claim to be Christians and are willing to be involved in a ministry, I would think if someone they respected as a person of God would talk to them they would seek restoration.
_____________________________
The world has only one problem, sin.
There is only one solution, Jesus.
Seems a lot of people watch evangelist on TV and call it going to church.
My kids use to play Mario Cart and think they where driving…
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/13/2009 3:20:06 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 1524
Joined: 6/16/2008
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quote:
Anytime that I have had to call a couple or an individual in about sin in thier lives; they have owned up to it, repented, spoke to the Church; and everythning turned out alright. In 46 years I have never had someone deny the sin that was in their lives.
This is refreshing. Sin continues because it has been downgraded to a weakness or bad habit.
Sin nowdays in many churches is like that expression regarding gay people in the military:
Don't ask, don't tell. (of course seems like that is about to change too...surprise surprise)
Further, we are to stay away from the very appearance of evil and God considers sexual sin evil. We are all guilty...not presumed innocent...until the blood of Christ cleanses us...when we repent.
Sorry....I know you know all that
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/13/2009 3:26:06 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1481
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
First they must ESTABLISH that they have sinned. And what is the church supposed to do with dating couples...should we call all suspicious couples before the pastor and say "couple, we're asking you point blank, tell us if you're sleeping together, because if you are, you must repent or leave the church" ?
If a couple is giving the "Appearance of evil" then yes, they should be confronted by the leadership about the possibility of that appeaerance being actual sin. Then they get the chance to straighten it out or to leave.
The OP (and step mother) of one of the couple seems to say they are in sin; so until she says different; then the couple has to repent or go.
Sin cannot be allowed to stand in the Body of Christ; period.
Thanks
RC
I agree about sin standards. The couple lives with the other parents. While it's true, they may be sinning, the other parents may be allowing it, just living under the same roof with parents though unwise is not the appearance of sin as living together alone would be.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/13/2009 3:33:46 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1481
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
quote:
First they must ESTABLISH that they have sinned. And what is the church supposed to do with dating couples...should we call all suspicious couples before the pastor and say "couple, we're asking you point blank, tell us if you're sleeping together, because if you are, you must repent or leave the church" ?
The way alot of 'Christian'couples 'date' nowdays, that might be a good idea. Seriously, this is not about dating couples now, is it!
It is about one couple that is giving every appearance of fornicating.
What is the church supposed to do about dating couples? Treat them like Christians which means the dating couple should behave like Christians which means NOT living together. Living together is not dating. 
ps ...how do you establish the sin? Shall we check out her virginity? Or perhaps do a rape kit test for the presence of semen?
Honestly...........
Never heard of caught in adultry or confession? How about needing to establish with witnesses?
We are not the sin police or the Holy Spirit. We have certain responsibilties to confront sin when we see it, but it is not our mission to abolish sin. It's about accountability.
One must be careful about hating sin in others, we ALL have unrefined sin in our lives to continue dealing with. Accountability is not about hating other's failures and calling them on the carpet. It's about confronting them because you love them and fear for their well being (spiritually) and about holding up the standards yourself. (including the responsibility to confront when appropriate)
Living together with parents is not the same as living together alone as a couple.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/13/2009 3:43:40 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1481
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And.....high five to the posts of bolt.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/13/2009 4:36:59 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 1524
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quote:
Never heard of caught in adultry or confession? How about needing to establish with witnesses?
We are not the sin police or the Holy Spirit. We have certain responsibilties to confront sin when we see it, but it is not our mission to abolish sin. It's about accountability.
One must be careful about hating sin in others, we ALL have unrefined sin in our lives to continue dealing with. Accountability is not about hating other's failures and calling them on the carpet. It's about confronting them because you love them and fear for their well being (spiritually) and about holding up the standards yourself. (including the responsibility to confront when appropriate)
Living together with parents is not the same as living together alone as a couple.
This explains why sexual sin is rampant in the church today.
What does the 'appearance' of sin mean to you? Again, why was this thread started? To discuss the fact that all have unrefined sin?
Don't think so. But, we are not all as unrefined as you would imply.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/13/2009 4:53:54 PM
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sharonjef2007
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Ok, so the OP who is also the stepmother of this gal is aware of the potential sin. They have confronted the couple and the couple won't talk about it. As far as I can tell from what the OP has said, they go to a different church than the OP and her husband (gal's dad).
So, the question lies in this, should they snitch on the couple to the church they go to? Should they simply continue trying to talk to them on their own? It sounds like the OP and her husband are really the only players so far in this situation that has a problem (rightly so) with the living/possible sex situation.
Just a note about the birth control issue, it can't be assumed that they are having sex just because she is on the BCP. I was on it for three and a half years due to medical issues. I dated during that time, but did not sin sexually.
_____________________________
my blog......Picture This.......
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/13/2009 5:43:35 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1481
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
quote:
Never heard of caught in adultery or confession? How about needing to establish with witnesses?
We are not the sin police or the Holy Spirit. We have certain responsibilties to confront sin when we see it, but it is not our mission to abolish sin. It's about accountability.
One must be careful about hating sin in others, we ALL have unrefined sin in our lives to continue dealing with. Accountability is not about hating other's failures and calling them on the carpet. It's about confronting them because you love them and fear for their well being (spiritually) and about holding up the standards yourself. (including the responsibility to confront when appropriate)
Living together with parents is not the same as living together alone as a couple.
This explains why sexual sin is rampant in the church today.
What does the 'appearance' of sin mean to you? Again, why was this thread started? To discuss the fact that all have unrefined sin?
Don't think so. But, we are not all as unrefined as you would imply.
If they are sharing the SAME room/bed it is sin. Being under the same roof with other adults does not necessarily look like sin. It does have the appearance of temptation.
Really, how does what I said indicate a reason for rampant sexual sin? It's not obvious to me.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/13/2009 5:47:22 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1481
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
Again, why was this thread started? To discuss the fact that all have unrefined sin?
Don't think so. But, we are not all as unrefined as you would imply.
I was addressing a statement in a specific post re hating sin in others. Non of us have reached perfection in our earthly natures. When we are guilty of a "little" sin we are guilty, period.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/13/2009 6:09:02 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6747
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
I was addressing a statement in a specific post re hating sin in others. Non of us have reached perfection in our earthly natures. When we are guilty of a "little" sin we are guilty, period.
Well Scripture tells us that we should reach perfection through faith in the Word and the Promises of God.
(Heb 13:21) Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
So I would humbly ask that you not paint with so wide a brush as "Non of us".
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/13/2009 7:47:04 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1481
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So you consider your heart pure at all times? Without need for repentance ever again?
Hebrews 13:20 Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,
13:21
equip you in every good thing to do His will, working in us that which is pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.
An ongoing process.
< Message edited by Corne -- 10/13/2009 7:59:31 PM >
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/14/2009 7:23:45 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 1524
Joined: 6/16/2008
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quote:
If they are sharing the SAME room/bed it is sin. Being under the same roof with other adults does not necessarily look like sin. It does have the appearance of temptation.
Really, how does what I said indicate a reason for rampant sexual sin? It's not obvious to me.
Then what is this about?
quote:
No, because she has talked about getting her birth control pills. Besides, my husband talked to him about them not living together and sleeping together but.. he wouldn't say either way. If they were not sexually active I'm sure he would have said so. At least he doesn't feel comfortable about lying about it all.
I must once again try (as so far you do not acknowledge it) that this thread is NOT about sexual sin in general...or rampant sexual sin, whatever that is, as YOU have stated.....but it is about one couple and the OP's concern that they are fornicating...which is what sex outside of marriage between 2 unmarried people is.
The reason I stated this:
quote:
This explains why sexual sin is rampant in the church today.
would be because you seem to think you have a better grip on the situation then the person who posted the OP. You seem to want to justify their living arrangments and all the behavior that indicates they are engaging in sex, by misquoting Scripture....such as Jesus telling the accusers of the woman caught in adultery that the innocent person should throw the first stone. You left out the fact that Jesus told the woman TO GO AND SIN NO MORE. Further, you say nothining when I point that out to you.
Well, Scripture is not a loose guidline....it is the bottom line....on how we are to conduct ourselves.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/14/2009 7:29:35 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 1524
Joined: 6/16/2008
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quote:
I was addressing a statement in a specific post re hating sin in others. Non of us have reached perfection in our earthly natures. When we are guilty of a "little" sin we are guilty, period.
Well I did not even make that statement, but I would suggest hating sin in ourselves first before hating sin in others.
The fact that no one is perfect is not an excuse to condone or look the other way.
As RC has pointed out, it is the leadership that should take action. Unfortunately, even though sin offends God far more than it offends us,
it also seems to be offensive to many to even talk about it, let alone go the the party that is sinning or appears to be or even appears to be headed in that direction.
That is what Scripture indicates. That has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the fact that none of us are 'perfect.' We are supposed to live holy before God...not give people reason to suspect otherwise. It is just the appearance of evil that we are to abstain from....this thread would not be here if these two people were obeying the injunction to live holy.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/14/2009 7:35:20 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 1524
Joined: 6/16/2008
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quote:
Hebrews 13:20 Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,
13:21
equip you in every good thing to do His will, working in us that which is pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.
Not going to happen if you are living in sin. Not going to happen if you are causing others to stumble because of your lifesyle. You can quote all the verses you want....each and every promise in the Bible is ours ONLY if we have repented of our sin. And that includes heart attitudes as well.
This verse mentions the blood of Jesus.....that is for forgiveness of sins, but if you continue sinning that blood will not work on your behalf. Read all of Hebrews and you will see that.
Is living in a situation that causes gossip every good work? Is that God's will? Is it pleasing in God's sight?
As Paul said, YOU are bought with a price. A person cannot just quote Scripture and think it means anything at all if they are not obeying what Scriptures says. The Bible is not a grab bag of treats that people can select at will. There are consequences for ALL a person's actions. You do not receive good only at the hand of God....you or someone else may look the other way but God does not.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/14/2009 8:58:14 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 6747
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
So you consider your heart pure at all times? Without need for repentance ever again?
Hebrews 13:20 Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,
13:21
equip you in every good thing to do His will, working in us that which is pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.
(1Jn 3:7) Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. (1Jn 3:8) He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.(1Jn 3:9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
(Rom 12:1,2) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
(2Co 5:10) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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