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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/14/2009 1:03:03 PM
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Corne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
quote:
Hebrews 13:20 Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,
13:21
equip you in every good thing to do His will, working in us that which is pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.
Not going to happen if you are living in sin. Not going to happen if you are causing others to stumble because of your lifesyle. You can quote all the verses you want....each and every promise in the Bible is ours ONLY if we have repented of our sin. And that includes heart attitudes as well.
This verse mentions the blood of Jesus.....that is for forgiveness of sins, but if you continue sinning that blood will not work on your behalf. Read all of Hebrews and you will see that.
Is living in a situation that causes gossip every good work? Is that God's will? Is it pleasing in God's sight?
As Paul said, YOU are bought with a price. A person cannot just quote Scripture and think it means anything at all if they are not obeying what Scriptures says. The Bible is not a grab bag of treats that people can select at will. There are consequences for ALL a person's actions. You do not receive good only at the hand of God....you or someone else may look the other way but God does not.
HELLO!?
Where do you get the idea that I do not think sin is of consequence?
Yes, we were ALL bought with a price. That was my point. That needs to be our perspective. I was saying that we should be careful about HATING sin and failure in others. This does not at all equate to ignoring sin and accountability.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/14/2009 1:10:10 PM
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Corne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
would be because you seem to think you have a better grip on the situation then the person who posted the OP. You seem to want to justify their living arrangments and all the behavior that indicates they are engaging in sex, by misquoting Scripture....such as Jesus telling the accusers of the woman caught in adultery that the innocent person should throw the first stone. You left out the fact that Jesus told the woman TO GO AND SIN NO MORE. Further, you say nothining when I point that out to you.
Well, Scripture is not a loose guidline....it is the bottom line....on how we are to conduct ourselves.
I misquoted which scripture?
My point is, that the OP is really really reallly really suspicious about the sin but does not in fact KNOW.
A gossip is a sin itself (you brought it up) the gossip can't blame their sin on someone else.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/14/2009 1:38:22 PM
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allisonbrett
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My husband and his ex-FIL spoke yesterday and he confirmed that they also know that the couple are indeed living together as if married but not. His parents are evidently fine with the arrangement as is her mother. The ex-FIL is the minister and the one due to marry them next June. He said he was going to talk to them about it as he is quite furious about the situation but his wife insists that he stay out of it and leave it alone. His wife is quite a bully at times so par for course he backs down to preserve peace in his own home.
So what now? If those in their church do not know or have not said anything to them what do we do or even if they have ignored it, what's next? We're not going to "rat" them out to the pastor as that may drive them from church and us but they are living in sin and don't seem to care. What can we do?
BTW: they are not in church leadership but members who attend regularly.
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Allison
A work in progress so please be patient, God is still working on me. Ouch, it sure is painful!
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/14/2009 1:57:39 PM
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bolt.
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YOU can and should do little to nothing, other than direct and effective prayer.
You've made your statement. That is the responsibility of any Christian towards another professing Christian... but it goes no further. You are not their leader-in-Christ. You might choose to continue to be socially warm, or you might choose coolness or even setting them out of your life for this season... any would be fine, listen to the Spirit within you.
If their Church is dropping the ball, either by not knowing them well enough to know, or by knowing and doing nothing -- that's crummy, but it doesn't add any extra responsibilities to your plate.
I suppose you could be supportive of the ex-FIL, so that maybe his backbone would strengthen. Pray for that, and for conviction and healing... which is the most powerful thing any Christian can do.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/14/2009 2:07:18 PM
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allisonbrett
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bolt.
YOU can and should do little to nothing, other than direct and effective prayer.
You've made your statement. That is the responsibility of any Christian towards another professing Christian... but it goes no further. You are not their leader-in-Christ. You might choose to continue to be socially warm, or you might choose coolness or even setting them out of your life for this season... any would be fine, listen to the Spirit within you.
If their Church is dropping the ball, either by not knowing them well enough to know, or by knowing and doing nothing -- that's crummy, but it doesn't add any extra responsibilities to your plate.
I suppose you could be supportive of the ex-FIL, so that maybe his backbone would strengthen. Pray for that, and for conviction and healing... which is the most powerful thing any Christian can do.
You're right so we continue to pray hard.
_____________________________
Allison
A work in progress so please be patient, God is still working on me. Ouch, it sure is painful!
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/14/2009 10:08:25 PM
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singpeace
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Paul stated:
Romans 7: 13 - 25
KJV
14 We know that the law is spiritual, but I am not spiritual since sin rules me as if I were its slave.15 I do not understand the things I do. I do not do what I want to do, and I do the things I hate.16 And if I do not want to do the hated things I do, that means I agree that the law is good.17 But I am not really the one who is doing these hated things; it is sin living in me that does them.18 Yes, I know that nothing good lives in me—I mean nothing good lives in the part of me that is earthly and sinful. I want to do the things that are good, but I do not do them.19 I do not do the good things I want to do, but I do the bad things I do not want to do.20 So if I do things I do not want to do, then I am not the one doing them. It is sin living in me that does those things.
21 So I have learned this rule: When I want to do good, evil is there with me.22 In my mind, I am happy with God's law.23 But I see another law working in my body, which makes war against the law that my mind accepts. That other law working in my body is the law of sin, and it makes me its prisoner.24 What a miserable man I am! Who will save me from this body that brings me death?25 I thank God for saving me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So in my mind I am a slave to God's law, but in my sinful self I am a slave to the law of sin.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/15/2009 8:15:15 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: singpeace
Paul stated:
Romans 7: 13 - 25
KJV
14 We know that the law is spiritual, but I am not spiritual since sin rules me as if I were its slave.15 I do not understand the things I do. I do not do what I want to do, and I do the things I hate.16 And if I do not want to do the hated things I do, that means I agree that the law is good.17 But I am not really the one who is doing these hated things; it is sin living in me that does them.18 Yes, I know that nothing good lives in me—I mean nothing good lives in the part of me that is earthly and sinful. I want to do the things that are good, but I do not do them.19 I do not do the good things I want to do, but I do the bad things I do not want to do.20 So if I do things I do not want to do, then I am not the one doing them. It is sin living in me that does those things.
21 So I have learned this rule: When I want to do good, evil is there with me.22 In my mind, I am happy with God's law.23 But I see another law working in my body, which makes war against the law that my mind accepts. That other law working in my body is the law of sin, and it makes me its prisoner.24 What a miserable man I am! Who will save me from this body that brings me death?25 I thank God for saving me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So in my mind I am a slave to God's law, but in my sinful self I am a slave to the law of sin.
Yes Paul did write that in reference to when he was under the law prior to believing in Christ
But please do not stop reading there; look at the next two verses;
(Rom 8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 8:2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Faith in Christ delivers one from that horid position of Romans 7 and into the glory of being a Christian. Paul goes on to say;
(Rom 8:3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(Rom 8:4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 8:5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
(Rom 8:6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Then Paul tells us what is our reasonable service as a Believer;
(Rom 12:1,2) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
So praise God that Believers are no longer slaves to sin, but servants of righteousness (Romans 6:18)
The fornicating couple that is the subject of this thread should immediately repent of thier sins or be put out of the Church.
Thanks
RC
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/15/2009 9:47:23 AM
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GraceyGirl
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Simple solution - for insurance issues and all the others.
Justice of the Peace marriage NOW - wedding "ceremony" and celebration next year.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/15/2009 3:43:49 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 1524
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quote:
HELLO!?
Where do you get the idea that I do not think sin is of consequence?
Yes, we were ALL bought with a price. That was my point. That needs to be our perspective. I was saying that we should be careful about HATING sin and failure in others. This does not at all equate to ignoring sin and accountability.
HELLO! I do not think you believe their are no consequences. I found it a tad strange that you would put that quote from Hebrews in this thread. We are discussing the OP's concern re sexual sin between a couple....Hebews is not about that.
Like I said, best to deal with your own sin first rather than anothers.......which does not mean we disregard others....I think that is the point we are not agreeing on...the Bible is very clear that a person (s) should be approached if there is question as to their status re living in sin, repeated sin or ongoing sin or a negligent attitude to sin.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/15/2009 4:29:18 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1481
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
quote:
A gossip is a sin itself (you brought it up) the gossip can't blame their sin on someone else.
Re the above.....starting this thread about anonymous peope is not gossip; she is asking for advice.
I am aware she does not know...duh....hence the entire thread. 
I was responding to what you said...
quote:
Is living in a situation that causes gossip every good work? Is that God's will? Is it pleasing in God's sight?
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/15/2009 4:30:46 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1481
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GraceyGirl
Simple solution - for insurance issues and all the others.
Justice of the Peace marriage NOW - wedding "ceremony" and celebration next year.
I've known couples that do that and DO NOT tell their parents.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/16/2009 3:26:46 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6735
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
I've known couples that do that and DO NOT tell their parents.
Are these couples that you KNOW were commiting fornication calling themselves Christians, belong to a Chruch, and are active in that Church.
If they are were did you go to them as a brother (sister) in Christ and try to lead them out of thier sin, and if that did not work, did you take two or three witnesses with you and confront them, and if that did not work to bring repentance; were they put out of fellowship with the Church?
Thanks
RC
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/16/2009 4:32:01 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1481
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
I've known couples that do that and DO NOT tell their parents.
Are these couples that you KNOW were commiting fornication calling themselves Christians, belong to a Chruch, and are active in that Church.
If they are were did you go to them as a brother (sister) in Christ and try to lead them out of thier sin, and if that did not work, did you take two or three witnesses with you and confront them, and if that did not work to bring repentance; were they put out of fellowship with the Church?
Thanks
RC
Couples getting married in secret by a justice of the peace are commiting fornication?
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/16/2009 5:20:40 PM
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sharonjef2007
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quote:
If they are were did you go to them as a brother (sister) in Christ and try to lead them out of thier sin, and if that did not work, did you take two or three witnesses with you and confront them, and if that did not work to bring repentance; were they put out of fellowship with the Church?
In this case, they are sinning against each other and God, not against anyone else. So, I don't see how this scripture applies.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/16/2009 7:27:59 PM
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manda59
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From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
I've known couples that do that and DO NOT tell their parents.
Are these couples that you KNOW were commiting fornication calling themselves Christians, belong to a Chruch, and are active in that Church.
If they are were did you go to them as a brother (sister) in Christ and try to lead them out of thier sin, and if that did not work, did you take two or three witnesses with you and confront them, and if that did not work to bring repentance; were they put out of fellowship with the Church?
Couples getting married in secret by a justice of the peace are commiting fornication?
Yes I was wondering this too. rcjames, are you saying that you don't believe that non-church weddings are valid?
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/16/2009 7:29:37 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6735
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sharonjef2007
quote:
If they are were did you go to them as a brother (sister) in Christ and try to lead them out of thier sin, and if that did not work, did you take two or three witnesses with you and confront them, and if that did not work to bring repentance; were they put out of fellowship with the Church?
In this case, they are sinning against each other and God, not against anyone else. So, I don't see how this scripture applies.
Please explain; are you saying that some sin is permissible in the Church, as long as it is not directed towards someone in the Church.
Is not the Church the Body of Christ (God)?
And would not any sin be against God and the Church?
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/16/2009 7:31:38 PM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
Yes I was wondering this too. rcjames, are you saying that you don't believe that non-church weddings are valid?
I was referencing fornication, not secret marriages (whatever they mey be), sorry for the confusion.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/16/2009 8:36:09 PM
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sharonjef2007
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Sin is not permissable at all. What I'm saying is that when I read the Bible, I take the scriptures in context. In the scripture you are speaking about, Matthew:
15 "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
I bolded the context of the scripture. If your brother sins against YOU! There are ways to discipline those in the church who are sinning and to confront them. I do not think that this scripture speaks to this specific circumstance, however.
And in reality, the church may not know that they are living in sin. They have hid it from family, so they may be hiding it from the church as well. The family who disagree with this sin has talked to the couple, and the couple has not repented. If the church knows of this or learns about it, than the church does have a responsibility to address it. But, since the family who knows of the sin is not part of the couple's church, I agree with their decision to not rat them out. The couple is making their bed, and they are going to have to pay the consequences of it. God is more than capable of bringing those consequences...either through the church or some other way.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/16/2009 8:46:47 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6735
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sharonjef2007
Sin is not permissable at all. What I'm saying is that when I read the Bible, I take the scriptures in context. In the scripture you are speaking about, Matthew:
15 "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
I bolded the context of the scripture. If your brother sins against YOU! There are ways to discipline those in the church who are sinning and to confront them. I do not think that this scripture speaks to this specific circumstance, however.
And in reality, the church may not know that they are living in sin. They have hid it from family, so they may be hiding it from the church as well. The family who disagree with this sin has talked to the couple, and the couple has not repented. If the church knows of this or learns about it, than the church does have a responsibility to address it. But, since the family who knows of the sin is not part of the couple's church, I agree with their decision to not rat them out. The couple is making their bed, and they are going to have to pay the consequences of it. God is more than capable of bringing those consequences...either through the church or some other way.
As a Believer is part of the Body of Christ, a sin agianst Christ is a sin against the body and each part of the body; ergo, all sin is againgst all believers for we (Believers) are one with God and Christ.
Jesus speaks directly to this in John 17.(specifically !7:15-26)
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/16/2009 9:49:11 PM
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sharonjef2007
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Ok....I sort of see how you made that connection RC.
So, in this case, let's say the church learns of the sinful lifestyle of the couple. There is no way to fulfill the Matthew scripture because they have to skip to step 3 right away. There is no chance for the 1st or 2nd step, because it is the church who confronts right away.
That is why I still say that scripiture in Matthew does not apply here.
Now, we could look at the John scripture you presented and use that as a basis for confronting the couple....no problem. This couple needs the church to interceed and call them to the carpet. But again, we don't know if the church knows or not.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/17/2009 8:23:18 AM
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solarflare
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quote:
That is why I still say that scripiture in Matthew does not apply here.
Curious.......how so? Don't you think there is a principal here with regards to sin...period?
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/17/2009 9:39:44 AM
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sharonjef2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
quote:
That is why I still say that scripiture in Matthew does not apply here.
Curious.......how so? Don't you think there is a principal here with regards to sin...period?
Read back a few of my posts....I already answered that question. There is a sin issue in this situation. However, the sin of the couple is against each other and God, it is not against a specific person. And, with that, that Matthew scripture does not apply.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/17/2009 9:55:31 AM
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solarflare
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sharonjef2007
quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
quote:
That is why I still say that scripiture in Matthew does not apply here.
Curious.......how so? Don't you think there is a principal here with regards to sin...period?
Read back a few of my posts....I already answered that question. There is a sin issue in this situation. However, the sin of the couple is against each other and God, it is not against a specific person. And, with that, that Matthew scripture does not apply.
Don't you think there is a principal here with regards to sin...period? If you don't, I do. I really think you are overlooking a principal regarding sin....if you are a Christian you are a part of the body of Christ and your sin reflects on and hurts all of us. (generic you)
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