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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 10/31/2009 9:24:10 AM
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GroupW
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Lw9- i don't think I understand your position on that.
We know from Alan that all gods that lodge members believe in are treated equally, and that one word is used to encompass all of them. That's not the same as saying they are all the same god.
How does that fact make lodge membership unchristian? I'm not connecting the dots.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 10/31/2009 9:27:51 AM
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GroupW
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Question for Alan.
Under what conditions in the lodge could you share your faith with another mason?
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 10/31/2009 10:00:50 AM
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AlabamaAlan
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Lw9, are you saying that if you were at a football game and they had a prayer for safety of the players, or at a City Council meeting and they offered a prayer for whatever business was about to begin, and the prayer did not end "in Jesus name, Amen" that you would never associate with the high school or with the city government?
I think it is difficult to ensure that every organization you join has only members who believe the same as you do (ie...the PTA example offered earlier) unless it were church.
As for sharing faith, it would be considered to be bad etiquette to do so in the lodge. Again, all discussions of religion and politics are to be avoided when you are inside the lodge.
However, this does not mean in any way that you are denying Jesus Christ or saying that all gods are equal. It is not meant to lessen or deny faith, but to maintain civility during a meeting because those two subjects have potential to lead to unrest when you are among a variety of people.
Of course, if it is not a meeting, then there is no prohibition whatsoever with sharing faith. Some of my lodge brothers are pastors, deacons, etc. and we discuss religion all the time. I have witnessed to another Mason who had a different understanding than I do, but it was done outside of meetings.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 10/31/2009 10:12:24 AM
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GroupW
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Lw9-
I think you misstated something in your post. It isn't a prayer to all other gods. It's a prayer to your own.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 10/31/2009 10:15:15 AM
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GroupW
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Alan, so to me, there is no real danger of furthering someone else's faith in the wrong thing. I believe evangelism happens from within a relationship, so any evangelism I would do would be practically by definition outside the lodge in a private setting.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 10/31/2009 12:52:20 PM
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mrtigger
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I am not a Mason and I don't typically know who is or isn't a Mason.
But I know my grandfather and an uncle of mine were Masons and also one older guy that I knew at church. All of them were men that had a high level of personal moral integrity. I don't typically respect Christians much in that regard but I did respect them.
Three men is not a big sample size but it seems to me maybe being involved with Masons counts for something in the area of personal integrity.
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mr tigger
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 10/31/2009 1:28:13 PM
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GroupW
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I'm sermonizing a bit here but it seems to me that anytime we put this or that organization or community off limits to Christians, we sow the seeds of our own irrelevance. One person says Masons are anti-Christian while another says ecumenical organizations are sinful, while for another it's some other group. Pretty soon it's just Christians hanging out with Christians (and only Christians of our own particular flavor at that) in our own holy huddle.
At that point we are neither salt nor light and pretty irrelevant to the rest of the world.
We are safe, but irrelevant.
Edit: mrtiggers post brought that sermonette to mind - maybe we Christians need a few more Christian masons, not less.
< Message edited by GroupW -- 10/31/2009 1:35:09 PM >
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 10/31/2009 7:44:16 PM
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lw9
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Welcome back, AlabamaAlan.
quote:
Lw9, are you saying that if you were at a football game and they had a prayer for safety of the players, or at a City Council meeting and they offered a prayer for whatever business was about to begin, and the prayer did not end "in Jesus name, Amen" that you would never associate with the high school or with the city government?
If they are not praying to the God of the Holy Bible, no, I absolutely would not participate in that prayer. There is one God, and that's the only witness I can bring. Why on earth would I confuse unbelievers by praying alongside them - each to their own god like we're all just one big happy family - and therefore encourage them in false faith. And why on earth would I participate in worship where I couldn't openly proclaim Christ as Lord or I didn't know 'Who' they were actually worshipping.
We are called to be SET APART. We are called to proclaim and preach His truth, His gospel, and His Lordship and salvation. We are called to NOT be yoked with unbelievers. Those are pretty basic Biblical truths that are being ignored here.
On another note: High schools and city governments are not fraternal organizations that require me to bind myself to them with oaths and worship a god, so your example really doesn't apply.
quote:
As for sharing faith, it would be considered to be bad etiquette to do so in the lodge. Again, all discussions of religion and politics are to be avoided when you are inside the lodge.
However, this does not mean in any way that you are denying Jesus Christ or saying that all gods are equal. It is not meant to lessen or deny faith, but to maintain civility during a meeting because those two subjects have potential to lead to unrest when you are among a variety of people.
Jesus Christ is either the one true God, or He is just another god like Allah and Buddha. When you offer up communal prayers with unbelievers to a generically termed 'god', you are participating in worship that does not present and recognize Jesus Christ as the ultimate truth and one true God. Instead, the truth must be suppressed so as to respect all gods, all faiths, and not offend, making Christ just one of many gods. Do you understand this? You literally must suppress the truth to participate in these meetings.
quote:
I think it is difficult to ensure that every organization you join has only members who believe the same as you do (ie...the PTA example offered earlier) unless it were church.
It's up to the individual to study and research BEFORE they join any organization and make sure they're not compromising or going against their faith.
There are organizations where people of all beliefs can get together that don't offer prayers, don't require faith in a god, and don't bind themselves together with oaths, so again, problem solved. We all have choices.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 10/31/2009 8:15:30 PM >
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Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 10/31/2009 10:56:44 PM
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AlabamaAlan
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As another example of a binding religious oath - If you were sworn into a court of law and proclaimed you were telling the whole truth "so help me God" would you want the judge to tell you exactly what God it is you were swearing to?
Sure, you know who you have in mind, but do they?
By your reasoning..any prayer offered must be specifically Christian with no involvement of other religions. If I stand next to a Jewish man in either my lodge, or in a civic club and we both say the same prayer to God, neither of us are being true to our faith because we do not make the distinctions?
In fact, you are saying that I should refuse to take part in a blessing over food if I'm at a large gathering that might include any other faith because their idea of the God we are thanking for the meal is not the same as mine. That would be a prayer and as much of an act of worship as anything that is done in a lodge.
I'm not trying to be a smart alack, and I do respect your convictions but lodge worship is the same as any group prayer anywhere that is not held in a specific house of worship, and as such, is as much communal as they are. To do otherwise in society would be to eliminate any trace of religion from anything other than a prescribed worship service, and don't we have too much of that already?
< Message edited by AlabamaAlan -- 10/31/2009 11:08:35 PM >
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/1/2009 11:02:20 AM
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lw9
Posts: 879
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Hi AlabamaAlan:
quote:
As another example of a binding religious oath - If you were sworn into a court of law and proclaimed you were telling the whole truth "so help me God" would you want the judge to tell you exactly what God it is you were swearing to?
Actually, people are allowed to not take that oath in a court of law if it conflicts with their faith.
quote:
By your reasoning..any prayer offered must be specifically Christian with no involvement of other religions. If I stand next to a Jewish man in either my lodge, or in a civic club and we both say the same prayer to God, neither of us are being true to our faith because we do not make the distinctions?
Is Jesus Christ Lord or not? If He is Lord God to you, than by your own admission you cannot proclaim His truth and publically present Him as the Lord God during worship and attendance in the Lodge. You must suppress the truth of Jesus Christ and Who He is in order to tolerate and respect false gods and false religions, and in order to not offend. That is a sad state of affairs.
Mk 8:38 “If anyone is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His Father’s glory with the holy angels.”
quote:
In fact, you are saying that I should refuse to take part in a blessing over food if I'm at a large gathering that might include any other faith because their idea of the God we are thanking for the meal is not the same as mine. That would be a prayer and as much of an act of worship as anything that is done in a lodge.
1 Cor 10:14 Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry. 16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf. 18 Consider the people of Israel; Do not those who eat the sacrifices participate in the altar? 19 Do I mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20 No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to DEMONS, not to God, AND I DO NOT WANT YOU TO BE PARTICIPANTS WITH DEMONS. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons.
Choices. We all have them. If I'm at a dinner or gathering and communal prayers are to be said, I can politely ask 'who' they are being said to. If it's not Christ, I can politely step away and not join in. If asked why I cannot join in prayer, I can then respectfully answer for my faith and witness the truth of Christ.
quote:
I do respect your convictions but lodge worship is the same as any group prayer anywhere that is not held in a specific house of worship, and as such, is as much communal as they are. To do otherwise in society would be to eliminate any trace of religion from anything other than a prescribed worship service, and don't we have too much of that already?
Trying to argue that "Everyone probably does it so it must be okay" does not reconcile Freemasonry to scripture. Again, the issues you are completely ignoring are as follows -
There's only one true God, and His name is Jesus Christ:
Isaiah 43:10 “… Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. 11 I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from me there is no savior.”
Acts 4:10 It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.
1 Tim 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ.
Proclaim the truth even if it's forbidden:
Matt 10:26 “So, do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. 27 What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs.”
Acts 4:18-20 And when they [rulers and elders] had summoned them [Peter & John], they commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. But Peter and John answered and said to them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to give heed to you rather than to God, you be the judge; for we cannot stop speaking what we have seen and heard.”
Acts 5:7 Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 28 “We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name,” he said. “Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man’s blood.” 29 Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than men!”
Be set apart:
Lev 20:7 “ ‘Consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am the Lord your God. 8 Keep my decrees and follow them. I am the Lord, who makes you holy.”
Rom 12:2 Do not be conformed any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind,. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is – His good, pleasing and perfect will.
Do not take oaths:
Matt 5:33 Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' 34 But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne, 35 or by the earth, for it is His footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black.
James 5:12 Above all, my brothers, do not swear - not by heaven or by earth or by anything else. Let you 'Yes' be yes and your 'No', no, or you will be condemned.
Do not yoke yourself with unbelievers or participate in their offerings. Prayers are also offerings, by the way:
2 Cor 6:14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? 17 Therefore come out from them, and be separate,”
1 Cor 10:14 Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry. 15 I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. 16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf. 18 Consider the people of Israel; Do not those who eat the sacrifices participate in the altar? 19 Do I mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20 No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons.
Christians are not called to please the world, hide the truth and the name of Christ behind an 'amorphous' god, and respect false gods. They are called to present the truth and suffer for the name of Christ:
1 Pet 4:12 Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. 13 But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when His glory is revealed. 14 If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. 15 If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. 16 However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.
Matt 5:10 “blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, 11 blessed are you when men cast insults at you, and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely, on account of Me” 12 “Rejoice, and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”
2 Tim 3:12 Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.
Rom 8:17 Now, if we are children, then we are heirs – heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in His glory.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 11/1/2009 12:01:47 PM >
_____________________________
Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/1/2009 3:00:01 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2526
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Lw9-
but there are literally millions upon millions of instances where we Christians do allow people to pray to their own god and we choose to allow them to continue in their error. When I pass a synagogue or a mosque, I don't enter in there to proclaim the gospel. No, wr pass by respectfully and allow then to pray in peace. Simply praying to my god while another brother prays to his - if that's the agreement we have made up front - is no different. There should be no inference that is drawn that I'm approving of his prayer or his god- and he should make no inference regarding my prayer or my God.
It would be different if there were no such understanding on everyone's part that no judgements are being made regarding who is right or wrong or that there was any one particular god that all are praying to.
If this brings me into contact with others who are spritually minded and open to hearing the gospel outside of the lodge, then my answer would be "why not".
I can understand why a believer might or might not be comfortable with that, so I would think this is a matter for each believers conscience. As such, I would stop short of the definitive language and misunderstandings of freemasonry that are apparent in some of your prior posts.
No offense intended by that - just my ever so humble (right ...) opinion.
(in all honesty, I don't think I've ever had a humble opinion or would even recognize one if I saw it)
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/1/2009 10:04:22 PM
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AlabamaAlan
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This is a fraternal meeting that happens to open with a prayer. In fact, at times it is The Lord's Prayer, but it is not a worship service.
You are saying that a Christian is suppressing the truth of Christ at any meeting, luncheon, or gathering where a generic prayer is made and should have nothing to do with it.
That leaves out a lot of organizations, far more (and probably less sinister) than freemasonry.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/3/2009 2:45:14 PM
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peacebringer
Posts: 251
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
quote:
Let me ask you this, do you believe the good Christian men who God has led out of masonry are liars? You think they just have an "ax to grind" or perhaps following what God has led?
You obviously believe that the good Christian men who God has NOT led out of masonry and say that there is nothing wrong with being a Christian mason are liars. 
I still haven't seen this "evidence" you keep speaking of. All you've given me is accusation and hearsay, no? Is there hard evidence?
Actually, your opinion about there is inherent evil in a little fiction story tells me that we're going to disagree on more than just this issue... so I'm not sure there's much we can do.
As far as what does membership bring them... I guess the same as membership to whatever other organization someone wants to associate with... NRA, AARP, American Legion, whatever. They are simply places to meet people with either similar interests or who just want a fraternity of sorts.
To tell you the truth... I know nothing about Amway... so I can't comment.
Are there any organizations or fantasy novels out there that aren't evil?
Look at the websites of ex-mason's reaching out to other masons. Look at the stuff posted by LW9. Read the stories. There are many quotes directly from Masonic charters that are dismissed as "lacking" hard evidence. Your response to Harry Potter not being deceptive and of darkness is telling. Either something is of the light, or of darkness. Either it is of the "Light of the world" or that of those "posing as angels of light" which do you think these fall into.
I am surprised you know nothing of Amway. Are you familiar with any other multilevel marketing scheme?
Again, how do you deal with the testimony of those that God has led out of masonry?
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True peace is not the absence of conflict, it is surrender to the King of Kings.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/3/2009 2:49:40 PM
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peacebringer
Posts: 251
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AlabamaAlan
This is a fraternal meeting that happens to open with a prayer. In fact, at times it is The Lord's Prayer, but it is not a worship service.
You are saying that a Christian is suppressing the truth of Christ at any meeting, luncheon, or gathering where a generic prayer is made and should have nothing to do with it.
That leaves out a lot of organizations, far more (and probably less sinister) than freemasonry.
Yes, it is not just a "fraternal meeting". Freemasonry is far more involved in many things then just some guys meeting together in building that is supposed to be symbolic of Solomon's temple.
Let me ask you this alan, what changed you mind regarding Masonry. Why did you join?
How far have you progressed?
What does Masonry do for you?
_____________________________
http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
http://www.peacebringer.net/phpBB3
True peace is not the absence of conflict, it is surrender to the King of Kings.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/3/2009 11:18:15 PM
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prophet
Posts: 689
Joined: 4/19/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
Welcome back, AlabamaAlan.
quote:
Lw9, are you saying that if you were at a football game and they had a prayer for safety of the players, or at a City Council meeting and they offered a prayer for whatever business was about to begin, and the prayer did not end "in Jesus name, Amen" that you would never associate with the high school or with the city government?
If they are not praying to the God of the Holy Bible, no, I absolutely would not participate in that prayer. There is one God, and that's the only witness I can bring. Why on earth would I confuse unbelievers by praying alongside them - each to their own god like we're all just one big happy family - and therefore encourage them in false faith. And why on earth would I participate in worship where I couldn't openly proclaim Christ as Lord or I didn't know 'Who' they were actually worshipping.
We are called to be SET APART. We are called to proclaim and preach His truth, His gospel, and His Lordship and salvation. We are called to NOT be yoked with unbelievers. Those are pretty basic Biblical truths that are being ignored here.
On another note: High schools and city governments are not fraternal organizations that require me to bind myself to them with oaths and worship a god, so your example really doesn't apply.
quote:
As for sharing faith, it would be considered to be bad etiquette to do so in the lodge. Again, all discussions of religion and politics are to be avoided when you are inside the lodge.
However, this does not mean in any way that you are denying Jesus Christ or saying that all gods are equal. It is not meant to lessen or deny faith, but to maintain civility during a meeting because those two subjects have potential to lead to unrest when you are among a variety of people.
Jesus Christ is either the one true God, or He is just another god like Allah and Buddha. When you offer up communal prayers with unbelievers to a generically termed 'god', you are participating in worship that does not present and recognize Jesus Christ as the ultimate truth and one true God. Instead, the truth must be suppressed so as to respect all gods, all faiths, and not offend, making Christ just one of many gods. Do you understand this? You literally must suppress the truth to participate in these meetings.
quote:
I think it is difficult to ensure that every organization you join has only members who believe the same as you do (ie...the PTA example offered earlier) unless it were church.
It's up to the individual to study and research BEFORE they join any organization and make sure they're not compromising or going against their faith.
There are organizations where people of all beliefs can get together that don't offer prayers, don't require faith in a god, and don't bind themselves together with oaths, so again, problem solved. We all have choices.
If we take this warning with a pinch of salt:
quote:
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
then its alright to join masonary.
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Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/3/2009 11:21:52 PM
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prophet
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Jahbulon is name used for god in freemasonary. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Jahbulon
My Lord is NOT called Jahbulon..........
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Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/4/2009 10:18:48 AM
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GroupW
Posts: 2526
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
quote:
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
then its alright to join masonary.
I've seen this verse used incorrectly in this manner. Having looked into it, I think the actual language used implies a very tight bond from which it's difficult to extract onesself. For example, being a close business partner with a non-believer could be problematic, while being employed in a firm composed of non-believers probably isn't. Being married to one would be, while forming friendships with unbelievers is not.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/4/2009 11:26:02 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6350
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From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
Can anyone here refer me to the specific oath they have taken as a mason, or that they know is used by their local masons?
That's an interesting question. I've heard the witch hunters like Ankerberg give details of the supposed oath by former Masons that involves having ones throat cut, entrails removed and thrown somewhere, etc. But not a single, solitary former Mason giving those gory details ever had those things done to them nor were there ever a single attempt made on their lives.
Yet, people still listen to these people as if they are honest, unbiased and without any ax to grind.
Makes one wonder...
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Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/4/2009 12:56:25 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2526
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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I'd like to see it as well along with the context surrounding it.
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“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/4/2009 3:41:16 PM
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peacebringer
Posts: 251
Joined: 5/20/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
Can anyone here refer me to the specific oath they have taken as a mason, or that they know is used by their local masons?
That's an interesting question. I've heard the witch hunters like Ankerberg give details of the supposed oath by former Masons that involves having ones throat cut, entrails removed and thrown somewhere, etc. But not a single, solitary former Mason giving those gory details ever had those things done to them nor were there ever a single attempt made on their lives.
Yet, people still listen to These people as if they are honest, unbiased and without any ax to grind.
Makes one wonder...
So what if those actions hadn't been done. It is not really the point is it, it is maing a covenant with those that serve other gods. It is engaging in pagan rituals. The referencing of "ex-masons" and "ax to grind" is really just a dismissive rationalization. "Ex-masons must be an ex-mason because they have an ax to grind." It is fallacious argumentation and faulty assumptions. These ex-masons have quotes direct from mason charters. You seriously think the folks at http://www.emfj.org/ have an ax to grind. Please indicate anything on the website that suggest so. Rather, it is attempting to reach out to those caught in the deception.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/4/2009 5:57:38 PM
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AlabamaAlan
Posts: 28
Joined: 6/1/2006
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quote:
Yes, it is not just a "fraternal meeting". Freemasonry is far more involved in many things then just some guys meeting together in building that is supposed to be symbolic of Solomon's temple.
Let me ask you this alan, what changed you mind regarding Masonry. Why did you join?
How far have you progressed?
I know I'm gonna regret this, but what else is Freemasonry far more involved in?
As for what changed my mind, I realized that I should not take theology from Jack Chick or Jim Shaw. When I broadened my reading to Pro-masonic material instead of warnings, I quickly saw the fallacies and downright lies being offered as facts.
I was influenced more by the lives of men I knew to be of good character, and faithful Christians, and trusted they would not be involved or easily fooled if things presented in the anti-masonic literature I had read were true.
For instance, claims that Jahbulon is a Masonic "god" are found in anti-masonic literature, but not in any actual Masonic rituals (from what I have read..I have never seen the name used as any diety in my experience)
As for how far I have progressed, I do not offer myself as a "leader of Freemasonry", etc. but since I had questions, I did enough research to satisfy myself, and that included several point-blank religious questions to the investigating committee who had to recommend me for membership.
As a member of the Scottish Rite, I am a 32nd Degree Mason, but that is not actually any "higher" than a Master Mason.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/4/2009 7:18:57 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2526
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AlabamaAlan
I know I'm gonna regret this, .....
I have - every time I've said that, or have even thought it.
There's just something Quixotic about going ahead and wading forward .... you just can't help it.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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