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Thou shalt not kill. - 10/11/2009 1:48:34 PM
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pabrain
Posts: 301
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May I have your comments on the apparent contradiction
Exd 20:13 "You shall not murder.
Num 25:7 Now when Phinehas the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw [it], he rose from among the congregation and took a javelin in his hand;
Num 25:8 and he went after the man of Israel into the tent and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her body. So the plague was stopped among the children of Israel.
Num 25:9 And those who died in the plague were twenty-four thousand.
Num 25:10 Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying:
Num 25:11 "Phinehas the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, has turned back My wrath from the children of Israel, because he was zealous with My zeal among them, so that I did not consume the children of Israel in My zeal.
Num 25:12 Therefore say, 'Behold, I give to him My covenant of peace;
Num 25:13 and it shall be to him and his descendants after him a covenant of an everlasting priesthood, because he was zealous for his God, and made atonement for the children of Israel.' "
Thank you.
Edwin.
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RE: Thou shalt not kill. - 10/11/2009 2:18:13 PM
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tsnody2001
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There is no contradiction. Phinehas was simply carrying out the justice of the LORD. There are several times throughout the Old Covenant that God commanded people be put to death for certain things. That is completely different than murdering someone in cold blood. It is the same here in America. While it is wrong to commit murder, according to the law of the land there are times when someone must be put to death, depending on the decision of a judge or jury. That is not murder.
I like that you put "You shall not murder" for Exodus 20:13, because "kill" is not an accurate translation.
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Thou shalt not kill. - 10/11/2009 4:14:46 PM
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northstar
Posts: 189
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tsnody2001
There is no contradiction. Phinehas was simply carrying out the justice of the LORD. There are several times throughout the Old Covenant that God commanded people be put to death for certain things. That is completely different than murdering someone in cold blood. It is the same here in America. While it is wrong to commit murder, according to the law of the land there are times when someone must be put to death, depending on the decision of a judge or jury. That is not murder.
I like that you put "You shall not murder" for Exodus 20:13, because "kill" is not an accurate translation.
I agree. Phinehas was totally zealous for God, and God's righteous judgements...
_____________________________
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
Psalm 122:6
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RE: Thou shalt not kill. - 10/12/2009 2:04:32 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 16732
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From: Just Outside of Boston
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quote:
Exd 20:13 "You shall not murder.
It says here not "murder," it does not say anything about killing at all. There is a difference.
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RE: Thou shalt not kill. - 10/12/2009 5:35:23 PM
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pabrain
Posts: 301
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Thank you all three, for your posts above.
It would seem that I did not give enough information.
My question was not asked in respect of someone living some 3000 + years ago, but for a Christian in the 21st Century who knows that Jesus said.
Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44 "But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Mat 5:45 "so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
I have no doubt that Phinehas considered the two he killed to be enemies, and that he hated them, because he had in mind what Moses had said at verse 5 of Numbers 25.
That, however, is not how the, "sons of your Father who is in heaven", are intended to behave now.
Sorry for not having made my position clear.
Every blessing.
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RE: Thou shalt not kill. - 10/13/2009 11:42:30 AM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5756
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Be sure to read what the context actually says and not read "into" passages.
Mankind in general is commanded not to murder.
Laws are given to demonstrate justice for those who do.
As a Christian I could pull the execution handle if that was my job.
I would throw up each time, but I could do the job. It does not
violate God's Word.
As a Christian and a soldier, I did my job.
Same thing, I did not violate God's Word.
But if I committed Murder, I violate God's Word and the laws
given by God concerning murder.
Killing and murder are not the same thing.
Killing is not murder, but murder is killing.
It's not that difficult to distinguish between the two.
Just step back and look at the whole picture.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Thou shalt not kill. - 10/14/2009 5:10:12 AM
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rawr.ben
Posts: 2729
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
As a Christian I could pull the execution handle if that was my job.
I would throw up each time, but I could do the job. It does not
violate God's Word.
God's Word gives gov't the authority to make these calls, but does it mean it was God's Will?
What is God's intended plan for capital punishment? Wouldn't there have to be judges determining it? And since we don't have the Sanhedrin, do we have the authority to make the call to capital punishment?
I hope this isn't off topic too much. I ask sincerely since I was actually thinking about this tonight at work (apparently very random things come to my mind at work, huh?) and wasn't quite literate enough in my studies to have figured it all out.
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rawr.ben
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RE: Thou shalt not kill. - 10/14/2009 7:25:38 AM
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LastofAll
Posts: 126
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The OT was a physical covenant against sin, whereas the NT is a spiritual covenant against sin. Then they destroyed sin physically, but now we destroy sin spiritually by heavenly principles. Before we would have thrown stones, but now we have mercy and forgive. Before we would have rendered an eye for an eye, but now we overcome evil with good.
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RE: Thou shalt not kill. - 10/14/2009 7:59:03 AM
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jhuperetes
Posts: 472
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Murders are a type of killing.
Not all killings are murder.
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