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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 10/17/2009 9:48:46 PM
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stateofgrace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: neuronstatic
quote:
ORIGINAL: stateofgrace
As far as Stardust, I didn't think that the scene mentioned was very explicit. It's also a book intended more for mid-teens and up; not for middle school students.
The scene in question was quite explicit. In fact, I dare not quote it on this site. I would probably get my post deleted and a stern scolding from the moderators for its content. It was quite provocative.
I had serious issues with one of my daughter's middle school teachers a few years ago when she recommended this book to my daughter with very high praise.
So my daughter came across this section and kept reading. But here is the great part: she actually told me about it.
Imagine that, a teen coming to her dad and telling her she had issues with a part of a book. I let her keep reading it because it was only the one scene and she had already read it.
Stardust was one of the very few books that I would deny my other kids from reading until high school. Had it been recommended in high school, I may have had a different opinion. But I felt it was a bit much for an 8th grader.
In the context of recommending in middle school, I understand your concerns. I think it's great that your daughter came to you to discuss it with you!
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 10/17/2009 11:06:44 PM
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neuronstatic
Posts: 1246
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quote:
ORIGINAL: heremainsfaithful
As an author, I can tell you that legally there is no "contract" between an author and a reader, unless you count the idea that an author will give their best work in hopes that the reader will enjoy it.
I concur. As I have been working on my book projects, I am writing what I want to write. If you don't want to read it, then don't.
The only "contract" I see is with myself, to either do my best, or not do it at all.
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 10/17/2009 11:14:27 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4170
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RJR_fan
quote:
I'm still waiting to find out from the OP what makes an author worthy of being avoided. The blatant promotion of lesbianism as a legitimate option.
What does "legitimate option" mean? There's a lesbian character? The author is a lesbian? There is one mention or an ongoing theme?
For young adult fiction, which I would say is maybe age 12+?, I can't think of too much I wouldn't allow to be read if there's an ongoing dialog with a parent.
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 10/17/2009 11:40:01 PM
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henny
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When it comes to reading, I think books are basically self-censoring in that it takes a greater degree of intellectual effort to get through a book, so if a kid seeks a specific book out and can get through the whole thing, they are probably already mature enough to read it. It really isn't a medium like film where children can be bombarded with images which they can't process. With books, if a 8 year old (for example), tried reading "Lolita," I imagine he'd be bored out of his mind before he actually got to any adult content in the book.
So I really don't think I would censor any books from my children were I a parent. I was a very precocious reader as a child and had my parents censored certain classic works from me, I think it would have hindered me more than it would have helped me.
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Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.
-William Blake
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 10/18/2009 12:34:00 AM
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stellaluna
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My parents didn't censor my reading either, for the record.
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 10/18/2009 1:10:29 AM
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JustaFan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: neuronstatic
Tacitus, you are bang on right. Someone please tell me why credibility is given to "pretend"?
Oh I can hear them now, "but kids pretending to do magic leads them to real occult practice".
PUH-LEEEEEZE! Maybe YOUR ignorant kid, but not mine! 
Sideways, yeah, there are a whole lot worse things for kids to read than pretend magic.
Come to think of it, I would rather have my 11 yo reading Twilight or Lord of the Rings or even Lord of the Flies than read most of the Theology threads on this site. Talk about pure adulterated fiction, its chock full in there. 
Exactly, I grew up watching Dark Shadows, but never got confused about vampires and werewolves being fiction. I never held a seance or thought about casting any spells, because we knew it was just a story.
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Judith
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 10/18/2009 9:16:11 AM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1585
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:
ORIGINAL: RJR_fan
quote:
I'm still waiting to find out from the OP what makes an author worthy of being avoided. The blatant promotion of lesbianism as a legitimate option.
What does "legitimate option" mean? There's a lesbian character? The author is a lesbian? There is one mention or an ongoing theme?
For young adult fiction, which I would say is maybe age 12+?, I can't think of too much I wouldn't allow to be read if there's an ongoing dialog with a parent.
OK...have you browsed that section of the bookstore? I know it's overstuffed with Twilight clones now, but in addition to that? A few years ago our local Borders put up a sign that reminded parents that "controversial" topics were included in the YA section. It's a good thing to be aware of. I come down on the side of less censorship for mid-teens and above, but I still think parents need to be educated about what is being marketed towards their minor children.
While I don't know if book mentioned in the OP really advocated same-sex relationships or just had it thrown in as a minor plot point, there are gay authors that write "coming of age" stories intended for YA audiences.
_____________________________
America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 10/18/2009 9:28:15 AM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 1168
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quote:
I don't understand why an author would be considered a mentor, or what the implied contract between reader writer would be.
Writing fiction has been described a right-brain activity carried out through left-brain means. When you transfer images to another mind using words, it creates an intimate kind of connection. If you write very well, and create imaginary worlds that people delight to inhabit, you bear great responsibility to those who make themselves suggestible, vulnerable, to your arts. To use such a power irresponsibly, in order to lead your readers into sin, you run afoul of our Lord's curse against those who betray His little ones.
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 10/18/2009 10:21:20 AM
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Sideways
Posts: 3366
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quote:
ORIGINAL: henny
When it comes to reading, I think books are basically self-censoring in that it takes a greater degree of intellectual effort to get through a book, so if a kid seeks a specific book out and can get through the whole thing, they are probably already mature enough to read it. It really isn't a medium like film where children can be bombarded with images which they can't process. With books, if a 8 year old (for example), tried reading "Lolita," I imagine he'd be bored out of his mind before he actually got to any adult content in the book.
So I really don't think I would censor any books from my children were I a parent. I was a very precocious reader as a child and had my parents censored certain classic works from me, I think it would have hindered me more than it would have helped me.
I think that used to be true when you and I were growing up, but I suspect it is no longer the case. My FIL is a Christian school teacher, and he agrees with you, but I think he is in grave error. He's also been teaching for 30 years, so maybe he's not to up to date on all the latest books. But there are plenty of books out there, written at the pre-teen level, that have a lot of sex, drugs and violence.
Now, just because a book has a single page that discusses a character getting involved in a lesbian relationship does not automatically mean that it should be taken out of the hands of the under-18 crowd. I'd need to read it myself to make a judgment, and I hope to encourage my children to come to me with questionable stuff. I also plan on spot reading their books.
_____________________________
Row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream. If you see a crocodile, don't forget to scream.
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 10/18/2009 12:15:31 PM
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heremainsfaithful
Posts: 190
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quote:
Writing fiction has been described a right-brain activity carried out through left-brain means. When you transfer images to another mind using words, it creates an intimate kind of connection. If you write very well, and create imaginary worlds that people delight to inhabit, you bear great responsibility to those who make themselves suggestible, vulnerable, to your arts. To use such a power irresponsibly, in order to lead your readers into sin, you run afoul of our Lord's curse against those who betray His little ones.
My responsibility as a writer of Christian fiction is to create as excellent a work as I can using the talent God gave me. The synopsis of a book is usually on the inside jacket or the back. If my book is to intense, I have not become a curse. I am just one of those authors someone may choose not to read. Besides, I assume this author is lost (the lesbian one). So how exactly is she accountable for spiritual values?
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 10/18/2009 2:15:24 PM
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SteveSund
Posts: 72
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From: Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: henny
So I really don't think I would censor any books from my children were I a parent. I was a very precocious reader as a child and had my parents censored certain classic works from me, I think it would have hindered me more than it would have helped me.
There may be a few themes I would avoid (such as explicit sex), but I generally agree with this point. For the most part, I am aware of what my child is reading and have read (or read about) most of what she is reading.
Fortunately, there are some excellent authors out there putting out quality material that is geared for teens and middle schoolers. They have way more choices then I did when I was that age.
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 10/19/2009 11:13:51 AM
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Brandy
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I spent my early teen years reading Anne Rice and my mom had no clue. Rice can get very sexually graphic when she wants and I soaked up those Vampire and Witch books like water. I will NOT allow my young teenager to do so in my house. It opened up way too many issues that I didn't realize weren't intended for a 13 year old to deal with.
In my house I will always check out an author my child is interested in. I can tell you about every book in my house because I've read most of them or have read their jackets and talked to my husband about his.
There will be books and authors that I will not allow my young teen reader to get ahold of if I can help it. RIce being one of them.
Atwater is credited with being a teen version of Anne Rice, I can only hope she plays it safe for her young audience but I doubt it.
You have to know what your kids are reading. It's not about censoring per se, it's about knowing what's going into their heads while their brains are still so maliable and young. You're a fool to think you can let them loose into the Y/A section and be safe reading.
I still don't know the specific of this book but if it was openly leading my daughter down a path of wrong I would hope I would have done my research before she got her hands on the book.
Yes, there are classics out there with questionable tales but my (hypothetical) 13 year old doesn't need to be reading them at this point yet.
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~Brandy
Our world of us.
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 10/19/2009 11:17:51 AM
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Brandy
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As for a 'contract' between reader and author.. that's absurd.
How about a contract between reader and parent of BOTH looking over the books chosen before reading? There are certain authors that will get a green pass and not need to be poured over by me, but there will be others I haven't heard of or I question their age appropriateness for my reader.
It's my job to protect as I can, my child from being exposed to things that are above her maturity and her need to know. Does my 13 year old need to know about open lesbian relationships? That they exist = yes, but certainly not the nitty gritty of the relationships actions. I don't need my any-aged kiddo reading about the sexual activities of any relationship really..
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~Brandy
Our world of us.
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 10/19/2009 11:46:29 AM
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heremainsfaithful
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I don't know how to say this, so I'll just say it. At some point, a parent has to just be a parent. To expect every author to censor what they write just in case a twelve year old picks it up is absurd. If you don't have time to investigate what your kid is reading, then you're too busy. If it's that hard to police, just tell a kid they can't read a book unless you have read it first. Then you know what it really says instead of some web site's take on it (I don't mean this site, I mean those panic driven ones).
I don't expect clothing manufacturers to design nothing but modest clothing so my daughter won't have to think about what to wear. Why on earth should I put the responsibility for my family's literary choices on the author?
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Jer. 29:11, II Tim. 2:13, Jude 24, 25
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 10/19/2009 12:29:44 PM
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neuronstatic
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Amen heremainsfaithful!
I guess the problem is people are too busy doing other things than to really get involved with their kids. Or perhaps they are insufficiently skilled in the critical thinking department to understand what it is they need to do, or what their kids are doing.
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Click here for an example of God blessing a man with a second chance at marriage in a new wife.
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 10/19/2009 6:03:24 PM
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JustinDew
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
My parents didn't censor my reading either, for the record.
Neither does my mother, except for The HP Series, and I've read a lot Worse than that.
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 10/23/2009 11:41:07 AM
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kelltech
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Has anyone heard of or read Scott Westerfeld? My 14 year old is into his 'Uglies' books but I can't find anything on this guy good or bad. She is into alternate Matrix-like stuff, I got her reading Dekker and she likes his writing as well.
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 10/23/2009 2:40:31 PM
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MrFribbles
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I grew up reading Stephen King as a YA, so I'm pretty open to recommending things. I'm more inclined to avoid books based on their quality, not their content.
It's all a matter of personal conviction and personal maturity. If a YA cannot handle the concept that other people believe differently than they do, they should avoid, well, most books. If they can, however, read another point of view, yet remain true to their own, then the sky's the limit.
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 10/24/2009 9:32:00 PM
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SteveSund
Posts: 72
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kelltech
Has anyone heard of or read Scott Westerfeld? My 14 year old is into his 'Uglies' books but I can't find anything on this guy good or bad. She is into alternate Matrix-like stuff, I got her reading Dekker and she likes his writing as well.
I read some of his stuff that is geared towards adults, so I don't really know about his YA stuff. I thought he was/is really good. I noticed that he has a new series coming out, called Leviathan, which is set in a steampunk, pre WWI Europe.
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 10/26/2009 2:07:14 PM
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neuronstatic
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My 12 yo (well, will very soon be 12) just finished "Uglies" and "Pretties". She gave me a really good synopsis of both. I think some of the social commentary was lost on her, but she saw the disturbing implications of forced "conforming" clear as a bell. From what she reported to me, I can't see anything I would really complain about for the YA reader. Its definitely not for pre-YA. Actually, the premise would make a good adult fiction had it been written up a level.
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 10/31/2009 3:15:16 AM
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Corne
Posts: 1481
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RJR_fan
quote:
I don't understand why an author would be considered a mentor, or what the implied contract between reader writer would be.
Writing fiction has been described a right-brain activity carried out through left-brain means. When you transfer images to another mind using words, it creates an intimate kind of connection. If you write very well, and create imaginary worlds that people delight to inhabit, you bear great responsibility to those who make themselves suggestible, vulnerable, to your arts. To use such a power irresponsibly, in order to lead your readers into sin, you run afoul of our Lord's curse against those who betray His little ones.
I disagree. First, when it comes to reading material, you are responsible for the company you choose to keep.
Secondly, it is along the line of fantasy if one believes that they have an actual relationship with an author.
It's not a mystical relationship.
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 11/13/2009 10:18:23 PM
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luvsrickforever
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I sometimes go in the teen section because I like to read a lot of their books even though I am not a teen anymore. Anyway, I read one called Peace, Love and Ducks I think. There was a peace symbol on the front of the book, a heart and a rubber duckie. The book was about a bunch of teen girls who get a job in the Hampton's taking care of these rich people's kids. The parents pay them lots of money and they go shopping, get drunk even though they are underage and have sex with lots of guys. They also swear and do drugs. I wouldn't read another book by this author and would not let my kids, if I had any, read this one either. The only good thing about the book is the girls who apply for the job, there were 3 I think, maybe 4, didn't like each other in the beginning but they became friends by the end and stuck by each other. That was the only good part in the book. I couldn't believe all the stuff they were getting away with. although I imagine that happens with the rich and famous.
I did read 2 books that I loved in the YA section. If I can find them in our library tomorrow, I will write down the names and authors. They were so wonderful and they made me cry even! I would recommend them to anybody, even adults!
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 11/13/2009 10:42:19 PM
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Krislynx
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I know a YA author and I found an interesting link off of her blog (by someone else) one day. It was an overview of how publishing houses and authors classify things. There is a middle level between children and YA called "middle grade" writing. Aimed as you might imagine at older tweens or middle schoolers. Then YA is meant for high school - 14/15 and up. Not 11/12 year olds. I read a lot of YA stuff while at the library with my toddler because it is shelved by the toys and many of the books make me think more adult than young. That thought is apparently a common one amongst writers for that group. Just some info to ponder.
Kris
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 11/14/2009 10:46:31 PM
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luvsrickforever
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Here is the name of that book. I highly recommend it and I know everyone, including adults, will love it. It's called "Rules Of The Road" by Joan Bauer. She wrote another book that I read and I loved that one as well. That one was checked out of our library and I don't remember the name. The last one she did was a book of short stories that we not all written by her. I took that one out too because I love her style of writing. However, every story had a lesbian or homosexual person in it and the stories were about that theme. I started reading one story and realized where the book was going and brought it back. I don't know how many books she has written as our library only had 3. The other 2 books did not have any gay themes.
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Peace & Luv,
Gail
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RE: Young Adult authors and books to avoid - 11/18/2009 4:48:22 AM
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potter22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: garsyt
I think books like this are PERFECT opportunities to discuss these topics with my kids rather than avoiding otherwise excellent writing.
Blessings,
Garsy
you are right friend, I completely agree with you...
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