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RE: Just like the world? - 10/16/2009 4:00:09 PM
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car2ner
Posts: 2538
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
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quote:
Is it OK with God for me to spend all of my money, not saving for my future needs?
With our current system, we save up money but as one person put it, all those savings go right down the rat hole once you start paying for the nursing home. There are allowances, such as housing and transportation, that the money can be used for.. hense the legal spend down... and then, yes, the nursing home is paid for by tax dollars.
Of course, you get what you pay for... if you want higher quality care you have to pay for it privately. That is a huget expense that should be covered by long term care insurance.
BTW, we have two small trucks and a motorcycle, all paid for. If we sold the motorcycle the money from that would not go very far into paying for a nursing home.
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http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
http://car2ner.imagekind.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Just like the world? - 10/29/2009 1:08:56 AM
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JustaChristian
Posts: 72
Joined: 5/20/2005
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quote:
I don't agree that it necessarily is deceitful. My parents did something similar for my grandmother after her stroke. She didn't have enough money for long term nursing care in a facility of any decent quality. Yet, she had too much money to qualify for most types of government assistance. My parents couldn't afford to support her for any length of time after her money was gone if she just spent it, because I was still at home and they wanted to help me in college and also save for their own retirement. So, they shifted enough of her assets to qualify her for a higher level of assistance, and used the money transfered to them to "gift" her with additional care and a few extras. It's not like my parents or my grandmother were living high off the hog. And it wasn't like grandma was using government assistance to buy beer and bonbons. They were just using every legal means at their disposal to provide a dignified level of care for her.
This is illegal in most states pure and simple. There is limited money available for those seniors who have no other assets to shift. This is literally stealing from the poor. If so many folks are struggling with this wouldn't it be more honest just to enact legislation to provide a base level of eldercare, like most countries do?
So instead we uphold our "principles" of "keep others hands off our money" and then maneuvere and abuse the small pool of funds that is available and others are paying taxes on expecting it to take care of those without resource.
My what a confused generation we are! Europeans may not know God, but they sure seem to have it all over us in ethical behavior and caring for their people. Instead we all try to keep all of our money while we rip what system we do have. Sorry, I am not trying to be personal, I just hope we all evaluate the serious inconsistancy in our values.
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RE: Just like the world? - 10/29/2009 7:04:51 AM
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car2ner
Posts: 2538
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
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Such a generalization. How about giving over 50% of your take home pay in taxes to fund the government programs that take care of them.
quote:
Europeans may not know God, but they sure seem to have it all over us in ethical behavior and caring for their people.
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
http://car2ner.imagekind.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Just like the world? - 10/29/2009 3:52:52 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2927
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JustaChristian
This is illegal in most states pure and simple. There is limited money available for those seniors who have no other assets to shift. This is literally stealing from the poor. If so many folks are struggling with this wouldn't it be more honest just to enact legislation to provide a base level of eldercare, like most countries do?
Speaking of illegal. Confiscation of property from one person under threat of confinement is illegal also, even if it is to provide for another person. The only reason the government gets away with it is they write the laws.
quote:
So instead we uphold our "principles" of "keep others hands off our money" and then maneuvere and abuse the small pool of funds that is available and others are paying taxes on expecting it to take care of those without resource.
Why would one expect that? Even if a governmental agency engages in "fund accounting" that is just a shell game. Legislators and government officials find ways to use the money as they please by "borrowing" from one account to fund another or simply change the mandate in mid stream. The only way one can be sure funds are used as one intends is to make direct donations and track them oneself. With governmental funds this is often simply not possible.
quote:
My what a confused generation we are! Europeans may not know God, but they sure seem to have it all over us in ethical behavior and caring for their people. Instead we all try to keep all of our money while we rip what system we do have. Sorry, I am not trying to be personal, I just hope we all evaluate the serious inconsistancy in our values.
Europeans are no more moral than those living in the USA. In eastern europe, working the system has been honed to a fine skill that most people there take for granted.
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Just like the world? - 10/30/2009 3:51:20 AM
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JustaChristian
Posts: 72
Joined: 5/20/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
Such a generalization. How about giving over 50% of your take home pay in taxes to fund the government programs that take care of them.
quote:
Europeans may not know God, but they sure seem to have it all over us in ethical behavior and caring for their people.
Having lived out of the country and experienced other cultures I do not have the same delusions many Americans do that we are more moral than other countries. In fact we are often quite the opposite. In addition we export our particular brand of immorality to the world.
We do still, thank God, have some incredible traditions that are superior, such as our judicial system. But as to the general morality of people and how much we care about each other, we have unfortunately slipped far from any peak. We could get into other areas of morality. Like abortion (Europe 10-20% depending on country, of the rate we have in America), or Teen Pregnancy (about the same).
It comforts us to live in our fantasy bubble that we have this incredible morality, but it also keeps us from solving and reducing our issues.
Take a look at the chart called "Global Incident" chart of teen pregnancy and abortion, notice we are at the bottom of the list? And things have not improved since the time that chart was made.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_pregnancy
< Message edited by JustaChristian -- 10/30/2009 4:08:07 AM >
_____________________________
Kindness, compassion, and humility, are all essential fruits of the Spirit, without constant application of which there is no Christianity, only a moral appearing immitation
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RE: Just like the world? - 10/30/2009 3:56:55 AM
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JustaChristian
Posts: 72
Joined: 5/20/2005
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quote:
Speaking of illegal. Confiscation of property from one person under threat of confinement is illegal also, even if it is to provide for another person. The only reason the government gets away with it is they write the laws.
Moral Relativism doesn't really make it in the Kingdom of heaven. And as for your using Eastern Europe, who was arguing eastern Europe, I think we both know I was talking about western Europe. Eastern Europe and the former Soviet states will struggle with incredible corruption, high abortion, and other social ills for many years, because they were sold on laise faire libertarianism by our famous "Free Market" advocates, and they have neither the tax structure to modernize their judicial and legal system nor do they have the regulation needed to restrict the entrenchment of oligarchies and mammonism.
Have you lived there (for more than a few week mission or vacation)?
< Message edited by JustaChristian -- 10/30/2009 4:09:05 AM >
_____________________________
Kindness, compassion, and humility, are all essential fruits of the Spirit, without constant application of which there is no Christianity, only a moral appearing immitation
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RE: Just like the world? - 10/30/2009 11:49:05 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2927
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JustaChristian
quote:
Speaking of illegal. Confiscation of property from one person under threat of confinement is illegal also, even if it is to provide for another person. The only reason the government gets away with it is they write the laws.
Moral Relativism doesn't really make it in the Kingdom of heaven. And as for your using Eastern Europe, who was arguing eastern Europe, I think we both know I was talking about western Europe. Eastern Europe and the former Soviet states will struggle with incredible corruption, high abortion, and other social ills for many years, because they were sold on laise faire libertarianism by our famous "Free Market" advocates, and they have neither the tax structure to modernize their judicial and legal system nor do they have the regulation needed to restrict the entrenchment of oligarchies and mammonism.
Have you lived there (for more than a few week mission or vacation)?
No, I have friends who have moved here from there. Neither europe or the USA are good examples of Adonai's kingdom. That is my point. I am not making an argument of moral relativism. I am pointing out that the principle of person property rights and responsiblities, that is in the Scriptures, has been eroded by the governments of the nations. A government "welfare" system is no substitute for personal charity and community.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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