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Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/22/2009 2:28:13 AM
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WanderingLamb
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A nation? A spiritual priesthood? The church? A blood line?
How does the nation of Israel today fit into your biblical worldview?
_____________________________
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
I'm being brainwashed.
Romans 12:2
Ephesians 5:26
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RE: Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/22/2009 11:02:32 AM
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Intrepidus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WanderingLamb
A nation? A spiritual priesthood? The church? A blood line?
How does the nation of Israel today fit into your biblical worldview?
WanderingLamb,
Excellent question. I'll answer it to the best of my ability, though I'm sure it will ruffle some feathers.
Israel always has been, and always will be, the chosen people of God. In the Old Covenant, that chosen people was almost exclusively limited to the Hebrews, the physical descendants of Abraham, the literal nation of Israel. Not all of them were truly members of Israel, as Paul explains in Romans 9. "For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, 'It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.' In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring" (9:6-8).
In the New Covenant, Israel blossoms to include both the physical and spiritual descendants of Abraham (Rom 1:16; Gal 3:29). It becomes inclusive of the Gentiles (Acts 11:18; Rom 11:24; Gal 3:28). Though many Jews found this difficult to swallow, it was God's plan from the very beginning. The promise to Abraham was that through his offspring "all nations of the earth would be blessed" (Gen 22:18). And in Christ, that promise is fulfilled. As the Living Creatures and the Elders sing before the throne: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation" (Rev 5:9) True Israel, then, consists of everyone--both Jew and Gentile--whom the Messiah has purchased with his blood. This is why Peter, a Jew by birth, can declare to a Gentile audience:
"But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God;" (2 Pe 2:9-10)
The apostle takes the terms that were once exclusively used of OT Israel and applies them directly to a Gentile church. Paul even refers to all who have been born again, who are new creations in Christ, as "the Israel of God" (Gal 6:15). Some who reject this truth, who wish to maintain the wall of hostility between Jew and Gentile, who embrace a form of sanctified racism, refer to this as 'Replacement Theology.' This, however, is a pejorative and an inaccurate one at that. The church doesn't "replace" Israel. Israel, rather, includes the church.
In Christ,
-Intrepidus
< Message edited by Intrepidus -- 10/22/2009 11:17:31 AM >
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RE: Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/22/2009 11:14:12 AM
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Qtman
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Good post Intrepidus. And, IMHO very accurate.
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At one time Jesus was my co-pilot. Things are much better now that He and I have changed seats.
<Me & my happyplate at Lobster Hut
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RE: Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/22/2009 11:15:21 AM
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Intrepidus
Posts: 104
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
Good post Intrepidus. And, IMHO very accurate.
Thank you very much, Sir. 
Sincerely,
-Intrepidus
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RE: Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/22/2009 11:21:36 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Intrepidus
The apostle takes the terms that were once exclusively used of OT Israel and applies them directly to a Gentile church. Paul even refers to all who have been born again, who are new creations in Christ, as "the Israel of God" (Gal 6:15). Some who reject this truth, who wish to maintain the wall of hostility between Jew and Gentile, who embrace a form of sanctified racism, refer to this as 'Replacement Theology.' This, however, is a pejorative and an inaccurate one at that. The church doesn't "replace" Israel. Israel, rather, includes the church.
So a Jew that does not believe (Have faith) in Christ Jesus as the Son of God is presently a "Child of God", saved, and Heaven bound?
If that is what I am hearing you say then what about this verse;
(Gal 3:26) For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/22/2009 11:28:45 AM
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Intrepidus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
So a Jew that does not believe (Have faith) in Christ Jesus as the Son of God is presently a "Child of God", saved, and Heaven bound?
If that is what I am hearing you say then what about this verse;
(Gal 3:26) For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
No, you misunderstood me. Only those who have faith in Christ--whether Jew or Gentile--and receive him as their Messiah are included in the Israel of God. Those who reject the Messiah--whether Jew or Gentile--are not true Israel.
-Intrepidus
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RE: Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/22/2009 12:36:21 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Intrepidus
No, you misunderstood me. Only those who have faith in Christ--whether Jew or Gentile--and receive him as their Messiah are included in the Israel of God. Those who reject the Messiah--whether Jew or Gentile--are not true Israel.
-Intrepidus
My apologies for misunderstanding your post, I must have done a "Drive by" reading.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/22/2009 1:03:25 PM
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Gloryandgrace
Posts: 839
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Intrepidus
quote:
ORIGINAL: WanderingLamb
A nation? A spiritual priesthood? The church? A blood line?
How does the nation of Israel today fit into your biblical worldview?
WanderingLamb,
Excellent question. I'll answer it to the best of my ability, though I'm sure it will ruffle some feathers.
Israel always has been, and always will be, the chosen people of God. In the Old Covenant, that chosen people was almost exclusively limited to the Hebrews, the physical descendants of Abraham, the literal nation of Israel. Not all of them were truly members of Israel, as Paul explains in Romans 9. "For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, 'It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.' In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring" (9:6-8).
In the New Covenant, Israel blossoms to include both the physical and spiritual descendants of Abraham (Rom 1:16; Gal 3:29). It becomes inclusive of the Gentiles (Acts 11:18; Rom 11:24; Gal 3:28). Though many Jews found this difficult to swallow, it was God's plan from the very beginning. The promise to Abraham was that through his offspring "all nations of the earth would be blessed" (Gen 22:18). And in Christ, that promise is fulfilled. As the Living Creatures and the Elders sing before the throne: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation" (Rev 5:9) True Israel, then, consists of everyone--both Jew and Gentile--whom the Messiah has purchased with his blood. This is why Peter, a Jew by birth, can declare to a Gentile audience:
"But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God;" (2 Pe 2:9-10)
The apostle takes the terms that were once exclusively used of OT Israel and applies them directly to a Gentile church. Paul even refers to all who have been born again, who are new creations in Christ, as "the Israel of God" (Gal 6:15). Some who reject this truth, who wish to maintain the wall of hostility between Jew and Gentile, who embrace a form of sanctified racism, refer to this as 'Replacement Theology.' This, however, is a pejorative and an inaccurate one at that. The church doesn't "replace" Israel. Israel, rather, includes the church.
In Christ,
-Intrepidus
Intrepidus: As usual, another outstanding post, well done.
John
_____________________________
Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles.....
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RE: Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/22/2009 1:11:41 PM
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Intrepidus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
My apologies for misunderstanding your post, I must have done a "Drive by" reading.
Thanks
RC
No worries, RC. I do that from time to time myself. ;)
-Intrepidus
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RE: Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/22/2009 1:17:51 PM
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Intrepidus
Posts: 104
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Gloryandgrace
Intrepidus: As usual, another outstanding post, well done.
John
Thank you very much, John. I appreciate the encouragement. Honestly, I was expecting some serious fireworks by now. Perhaps the folks in the 'Prophecy & End Times' forum don't pay much attention to what goes on in here. ;)
Your Friend,
-Intrepidus
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RE: Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/22/2009 2:40:38 PM
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WanderingLamb
Posts: 275
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Thanks for your input. I guess the main question in my mind is, how should I view today's country of Israel? I guess this would overlap with the prophecy/end times folder, or the current events folder, but it begins with doctrine and how you interpret the Bible. I'm just wondering, if the physical state of Israel no longer exists in God's mind as His chosen people, how does one view the prophecies regarding Israel , and the "abomination of desolation" in the temple mount, in the end times? There is so much confusion and disagreement over this issue these days. Is it possible to understand what the truth is?
_____________________________
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
I'm being brainwashed.
Romans 12:2
Ephesians 5:26
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RE: Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/22/2009 3:33:46 PM
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jjbird
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WanderingLamb
A nation? A spiritual priesthood? The church? A blood line?
How does the nation of Israel today fit into your biblical worldview?
In my view the church is Israel metaphorically not literally.
Real Israel does not exist any longer within the context of its original covenant with God. When it did exist it was only made up of Jews or converts to Judaism.
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RE: Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/22/2009 3:56:27 PM
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stampinlady
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Excellent topic !! This web site might help you see where this teaching came into play.
http://www.theologicalstudies.org/dispen.html
_____________________________
Deb
"When the fufillment comes the types and shadows cease."
Author unknown
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RE: Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/22/2009 5:15:37 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2934
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Intrepidus
In the New Covenant, Israel blossoms to include both the physical and spiritual descendants of Abraham (Rom 1:16; Gal 3:29).
This was the case from the beginning. Yes, there were physical descendents that one would refer to as Israel. However, It was a mixed multitude that left eygpt and they were all refered to as Israel. I do not see anything in the two references that contradict this.
quote:
It becomes inclusive of the Gentiles (Acts 11:18; Rom 11:24; Gal 3:28).
I would restate this as it was revealed to Peter and the disciples that gentiles were included. In Acts 11:9 Peter tells us, "The voice spoke from heaven a second time, 'Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.'" Did Adonai ever call the gentiles unclean because they were gentiles. No, this was a presumption of the rabbis. Every time Adonai speaks baddly of the gentiles, it is because of their actions.
quote:
Though many Jews found this difficult to swallow, it was God's plan from the very beginning. The promise to Abraham was that through his offspring "all nations of the earth would be blessed" (Gen 22:18). And in Christ, that promise is fulfilled. As the Living Creatures and the Elders sing before the throne: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation" (Rev 5:9) True Israel, then, consists of everyone--both Jew and Gentile--whom the Messiah has purchased with his blood. This is why Peter, a Jew by birth, can declare to a Gentile audience:
"But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God;" (2 Pe 2:9-10)
Yes, the priest and rabbis had lead the Jews to believe that the gentiles were unclean and therefore, were not even to be associated with. Yeshua did test those "god-fearing" gentiles that he incountered to make sure they knew what they were talking about. However, He never shrunk back from interacting with gentiles.
Why do you say Peter was declaring this to a gentile audience? You might have meant an audience that includes gentiles. This may seem like a small thing, but it is this kind of language that, I believe, lead the priests and rabbis to mislead the Jews with regard to the status of the gentiles in Adonai's eyes.
quote:
The apostle takes the terms that were once exclusively used of OT Israel and applies them directly to a Gentile church. Paul even refers to all who have been born again, who are new creations in Christ, as "the Israel of God" (Gal 6:15). Some who reject this truth, who wish to maintain the wall of hostility between Jew and Gentile, who embrace a form of sanctified racism, refer to this as 'Replacement Theology.' This, however, is a pejorative and an inaccurate one at that. The church doesn't "replace" Israel. Israel, rather, includes the church.
This is what I am talking about. "The gentile church" is doctrine. I can not find a term like this anywhere in the Scriptures. In fact, after thinking about it, I think of it as anathema. Paul himself tell us, (Ro 10:12) "For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him." In fact, the one place in the Scriptures where this term could have been used, the grouping of gentiles is stated this way, (Ac 21:25) "As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality."
You accuse those who use the term 'Replacement Theology' to refer to the practice of seeing the "christian church" as Israel as practicing a form of sanctified racism and attempting to maintain a wall of hostility. Yet, you choose to refer to "the church" as "gentile". Then you say "the church" is included in Israel. The assembly of believer's, which is refered to as a church in the english translations, has always been Israel. It is the RCC and rabbinic Judaism that have fostered this concept of "the church" as anything else. Rabbinic Judaism rejected followers of Yeshua, but that did not make them not Israel. The RCC declared itself "The Church", but that did not make the jewish believers they martyred any less followers of Yeshua.
So, to get back to what I believe to be the correct answer to the OP. In the Apistolic Writings, Israel is refered to in two ways. With regard to the land, the natural descendants of Yachov(Jacob) are the caretakers of the land and the Scriptures. In regard to Adonai's kingdom, Israel is the assembly(church) of all those who believe in The Promise. More literally, all those who struggle with Adonai. This is how it has been since Yacov was first called Israel.
< Message edited by Bluethread -- 10/22/2009 5:27:29 PM >
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/22/2009 8:00:05 PM
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Intrepidus
Posts: 104
Joined: 10/7/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
Why do you say Peter was declaring this to a gentile audience? You might have meant an audience that includes gentiles. This may seem like a small thing, but it is this kind of language that, I believe, lead the priests and rabbis to mislead the Jews with regard to the status of the gentiles in Adonai's eyes... This is what I am talking about. "The gentile church" is doctrine. I can not find a term like this anywhere in the Scriptures. In fact, after thinking about it, I think of it as anathema.
Bluethread,
When I use the phrase "Gentile church," I'm speaking of the visible, local churches to which Peter is writing. We note in the introduction that the recipients are the believers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia (1 Pe 1:1b). These are predominantly Gentile regions. Peter's statement that they have been redeemed from the "empty way of life" handed down to them from their forefathers (1:18) could hardly be intended for a Jewish audience. Peter didn't suddenly become anti-Semitic. He was still very proud of his Jewish heritage, as was Paul (Rom 9:3-5; 11:1). Furthermore, the fact that Peter says to his audience "Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God" (2:10) can only be a reference to Gentile Christians.
The invisible church, the body of Christ, consists of both Jews and Gentiles. There aren't two churches, one "Jewish" and the other "Gentile." In fact, in one sense, the church doesn't contain either,. For in Christ, "there is neither Jew nor Gentile" (Gal 3:28; Col 3:11). John Chrysostam, the great Archbishop of Constantinople, put it this way: "Let us suppose there to be two statues, the one of silver, the other of lead, and then that both shall be melted down, and that the two shall come out gold. Behold, thus has He made the two one" (Homily V on Ephesians 2:11,12).
In Him,
-Intrepidus
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RE: Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/22/2009 8:57:12 PM
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stampinlady
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But in the eyes of the NT it's pointless. Do you believe that there's a special dispensation for the Jews?
_____________________________
Deb
"When the fufillment comes the types and shadows cease."
Author unknown
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RE: Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/22/2009 9:19:47 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2934
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
But in the eyes of the NT it's pointless. Do you believe that there's a special dispensation for the Jews?
I am reluctant to use the d word because of it's historical misuse by the RCC and by evangelicals in the last century or so. That said, Paul tells us that jews do have an advantage. (Rom. 3:1-2) "What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God." Along with there longer history of studying the word, there is the physical occupancy of the land and the recognition of Yeshua by the jews before His return. Since only those who can prove that they are hereditary jews can be citizens in modern Israel, believing jews are more likely to have more influence there. Also, the more nonbelieving jews that are in the proximity of these believing jews the greater the effect.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/22/2009 10:19:43 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Intrepidus
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
Why do you say Peter was declaring this to a gentile audience? You might have meant an audience that includes gentiles. This may seem like a small thing, but it is this kind of language that, I believe, lead the priests and rabbis to mislead the Jews with regard to the status of the gentiles in Adonai's eyes... This is what I am talking about. "The gentile church" is doctrine. I can not find a term like this anywhere in the Scriptures. In fact, after thinking about it, I think of it as anathema.
Bluethread,
When I use the phrase "Gentile church," I'm speaking of the visible, local churches to which Peter is writing. We note in the introduction that the recipients are the believers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia (1 Pe 1:1b). These are predominantly Gentile regions. Peter's statement that they have been redeemed from the "empty way of life" handed down to them from their forefathers (1:18) could hardly be intended for a Jewish audience. Peter didn't suddenly become anti-Semitic. He was still very proud of his Jewish heritage, as was Paul (Rom 9:3-5; 11:1). Furthermore, the fact that Peter says to his audience "Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God" (2:10) can only be a reference to Gentile Christians.
Those may be primarily gentile regions, but that does not mean the convocations were "gentile churches". Remember, there were people gathered from the whole earth for Shavuot when Peter preached to the crowd.
Lets look at what the actual words are in 1 Pe 1:18 KJV "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;"
The word empty has a connotation that may not be intended here. This vanity could be refering to rabbinics as well as pagan practices. I am not saying that these were only jews, but this could be a mixed multitude. Pride in the Scriptural heritage does not translate into pride in all heritage. That fact is often used by many to suggest that Paul had rejected his heritage. The problem for many with Paul's writings is they show Paul to be a human being and not an icon. It is the same with Peter. Niether of them is totally in favor of everything jewish or totally opposed. I would not call their attitude pride, but recognition of that which is good, but as any honest man knows, heritage also comes with "skeletons in the closet". So, seeing everything as refering only to the jews or only to the gentiles is a bit presumtious in my opinion.
1 Pet. 2:10-11 "Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;"
These verses can be problematic in both directions, if one wishes to see each congregation as primarily either jewish or gentile. The first phrase does appear to say that these people have just become a people and the second phrase speaks of them as strangers in these gentile regions. However, the time frame is not specific. The principle is the point. I know it can be said that these people are to consider themselves as strangers, but that is just as much speculation as saying that the first phrase is refering to Israel in eygpt. I prefer to see it as both. We all were not a people before Adonai called us, both jew and gentile and we both must consider ourselves strangers among those who follow unholy practices. That is the point of the passage, not identifying the recipients of the letter as jew or gentile.
quote:
The invisible church, the body of Christ, consists of both Jews and Gentiles. There aren't two churches, one "Jewish" and the other "Gentile." In fact, in one sense, the church doesn't contain either,. For in Christ, "there is neither Jew nor Gentile" (Gal 3:28; Col 3:11). John Chrysostam, the great Archbishop of Constantinople, put it this way: "Let us suppose there to be two statues, the one of silver, the other of lead, and then that both shall be melted down, and that the two shall come out gold. Behold, thus has He made the two one" (Homily V on Ephesians 2:11,12).
I am glad you agree there are not two churches, one "Jewish" and the other "Gentile". However, I do not agree with the analogy. I prefer the biblical one. Israel is a tree, the unfaithful have been pruned and the faithful, who were not already part of the tree to begin with, are grafted in. I am reluctant to use the word church because of the connotations that have been given the term by the RCC. However, if you can set aside those connotations and just see it as the greek term meaning an assembly or convocation, I would say the church of Adonai's people was not born at Shavuot, the day of Peter's sermon, but was born in the garden and was made a nation upon leaving eygpt. So, yes, we are Israel. Not because the first Israel was rejected, but because we have been grafted into the one and only people of Adonai.
< Message edited by Bluethread -- 10/22/2009 10:45:19 PM >
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/23/2009 3:59:57 AM
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WanderingLamb
Posts: 275
Joined: 11/10/2005
From: Western WA, USA
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Interesting conversation. So, how do you all see the current nation of Israel? And can you back that up with Scripture? I want to understand how one ought to think regarding the prophecies about Israel (in Daniel and Revelation).
Thanks everyone!
_____________________________
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
I'm being brainwashed.
Romans 12:2
Ephesians 5:26
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RE: Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/23/2009 10:18:33 AM
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Intrepidus
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Joined: 10/7/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WanderingLamb
Interesting conversation. So, how do you all see the current nation of Israel? And can you back that up with Scripture? I want to understand how one ought to think regarding the prophecies about Israel (in Daniel and Revelation).
WanderingLamb,
I think that many of the prophecies in Daniel and Revelation have already been fulfilled. Some of the arguments I've heard from partial-preterists are extremely convincing. I don't think that all prophecy has been fulfilled, or that Jesus has already returned. (I do have something to look forward to!)
Regarding the current nation of Israel, I totally support its right to exist. While it hasn't always been upright in its struggle with the Palestinians (some of whom are actually Christians), in general I side with Israel in that conflict. Obviously, terrorist groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, and Al-Fatah need to be completely annihilated.
Having said this, however, I do not believe that the current nation of Israel is any more relevant to Bible prophecy than, say, New Zealand. God closed the chapter on that book in AD 70. The Israel of God, as was the case in the OT, consists of God's chosen people (Amos 3:2; Rom 9:6-13). Those people, according to Paul (Rom 9:22-27), Peter (1 Pe 2:9), and even Christ himself (John 10:14-17), are the Jews and Gentiles who have accepted Jesus as their Messiah. That is the true Israel of God.
That's my position, anyway.
In Christ,
-Intrepidus
< Message edited by Intrepidus -- 10/23/2009 10:25:24 AM >
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RE: Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/24/2009 1:14:11 PM
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stampinlady
Posts: 2589
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Northern IL
Status: offline
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quote:
I believe that the hereditary jews have been given custody of the land.
But their new inheritance is Jesus. We're studying Acts on Sunday mornings and Pastor brought this up when discussing why Annanias and Saphira(sp?) were struck down by God. Wile yes they lied they refused to give all of their inheritance back to the church and accpet their new (Christ) inheritance. They wante done foot in the old ways and one foot in the new( my thoughts). And the Left Behind series is very off theologically.
_____________________________
Deb
"When the fufillment comes the types and shadows cease."
Author unknown
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RE: Who does the NT say Israel is? - 10/24/2009 1:56:44 PM
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ChainSaw
Posts: 133
Joined: 10/17/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
...We're studying Acts on Sunday mornings and Pastor brought this up when discussing why Annanias and Saphira(sp?) were struck down by God. Wile yes they lied they refused to give all of their inheritance back to the church and accpet their new (Christ) inheritance. They wante done foot in the old ways and one foot in the new( my thoughts).
With all due respect to you as a Northern Illinois dweller*, I urge you to reread the passage and see where it says the field belonged to Annaias and Saphira and they had every right and privelege to keep the proceeds from the sale of that land (kind of flies in the face of the way the church teaches it's 'God owns it all' doctrine, but anyway...). Their failure was the fact that they lied about the amount of the sale, which they had no reason to because they were free to give as little or as much of it as they wanted to the church--if any at all.
*I was born in Waukegan, IL, and lived in Grayslake. Grew up with WGN television before it became the cable megastation that it is today. John Drury was the family news anchor. Harry Volkman was the family meteorologist (weatherman back in those days). After school TV was WGN's reruns of I Dream of Jeanie, Gilligans Island, and Bewitched. I could probably think of more if I took the time. Oh, oh, and Dark Shadows with Barnabas Collins, and Looney Tunes cartoons. Of course mornings were started off with Ray Rayner.
If you didn't live in Illinois during that time then just ignore everything I just wrote, lol!
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I to am not sure about the various time lines and charts that the "Left Behind" people like to trot out. However, I believe that the hereditary jews have been given custody of the land. I say this because the Scriptures give us directions on it's division among the tribes. They are also spoken of as possessing the land at the time of the return.
