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Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage undoable?
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Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage undoable? - 10/23/2009 4:41:25 AM
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Anon101
Posts: 188
Joined: 10/21/2009
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I am in a very unhappy marriage. I got married for the wrong reasons, but nevertheless, I stood before God and said "I do". I've been married for two years and we got pregnant right after. The surprise of my pregnancy triggered something in him and he began to get violently mad very easily. During my pregnancy I left for a couple of days and had to stay with my dad because I couldn't take the abuse. I had to call the cops on him after he threatened to stab himself in the neck with a knife. My mother killed herself when I was three, so I don't take threats of suicide lightly.
I have been taking the abuse (mostly verbal and mental) because of my vows. After the abuse started so did his out of control spending begin. He has racked up $6000 plus in overdrafts in addition to taking out an $8000 loan at 30% interest behind my back. I took over the finances and borrowed money from a family member at a really low interest rate. I pay on the loan bi-monthly. I put a little away in a savings account. I didn't tell him about the savings for fear he would take the money. Well, he found it and ran through it all in 10 days.
He sees a counselor 2x's a week and a psychiatrist once a month. They put him on a really low dose of bi-polar medication. He says he is fine now, but the behavior has continued. If I try to talk to him about stuff it turns into WW2 or he tunes me out. If I bring anything up, he gets upset and tells me I'm starting stuff and to leave him alone. So I do. I leave him alone. The bi-polar thing has become his excuse for behaving badly. Well, I'm sick so...
We live like roomates. I will not go into that because my post will be deleted. Just to say we know that roomates have absolutely no contact other that verbal.
I went to my pastor's wife for counseling. She said that no matter what he does to me, I have to stay. Christ died and suffered for us, so the least we can do it take the abuse or whatever the problems is, for His sake. She listed verses in the bible, which I am familiar with, stating no leaving unless he commits adultery.
I feel like I am in bondage in this marriage. The Word now feels like an albatross around my neck. I believe what I'm living is worse than if he committed adultery. That wouldn't hurt me. I really don't think it would because there is no marriage bed to defile since the marriage lacks what is suppose to go on in a normal marriage.
Does this really constitute a marriage? An occasional peck on the cheek, but he is free to do what he wants (outside of adultery) now that we are married? I know, I made my bed, now I have to sleep in it. I've been told that by Christian counselors. He won't go to marriage therapy again (he got into a fight with the one we had).
The Word was always a sanctuary for me, but it has been bondage to me.
Has anyone else felt as though there are things worse than adultery that a spouse can do to you?
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RE: Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage und... - 10/23/2009 6:35:22 AM
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car2ner
Posts: 2542
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
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Greetings Lorilynn.
There are two threads on the topic of divorce but no personal stories are allowed in there so this thread may just stay right where it is.
What you need to do has to be guided by the Holy Spirit. Stay close in touch with God in prayer otherwise, stay or leave, the whole thing can blow up in your face.
There is a difference between forgiving someone and allowing someone to continue to hurt you. I used to tell my ex that he didn't want forgiveness...he wanted to be able to get away with his sin.
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
http://car2ner.imagekind.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage und... - 10/23/2009 8:07:29 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 8029
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
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quote:
Yes, he professes to be a Christian. He says he is sick and can't help it. Yes, he is sick, he had a mental illness in being bipolar, and he CAN help it!
I have been married for 32 years. My wife is bipolar. She has spent money like crazy until I took total control of the finances, and she has had outbursts of rage and has had affairs. She used the illness as an excuse to justify the affairs, much like it sounds your husband is for his inexcusable behavior. I insisted we get into counseling and that if there were another affair I would be gone. She's better now, the meds seem to be doing what they are supposed to, and most importantly she knows that the bipolar illness has to be dealt with. By her and only her.
I can only tell you to educate yourself as much as you can on this illness of his. Know that many times the mixture of meds has to be changed and adjusted for them to work. Ask him for permission to talk with his psychiatrist for bipolars can fool the doctors along with everyone else but the ones they are closest to. You may need him to sign a release of information form. At the least you can and should write the psychiatrist so he gets the true info on how his patient is.
I can't advise you on to stay or leave. That is a decision you and the Spirit within you have to make. I do know that we are not to live in bondage, and you have described your life as doing that. And finally, you must protect your child. Is an out of control raging ill person someone you want to mirror to him? Finally remember, no matter what anyone in your church tells you there is a difference between separation and divorce. A separation might just wake him up enough to see that HE needs to do something about his illness.
I'll lift you up in prayer.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage und... - 10/23/2009 9:05:15 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 4566
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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Lorilynn777,
There is really a lot of debate among Christians about exactly what circumstances allow for biblical divorce and there are two threads here on Crosswalk specifically for discussing those theological details. That being said, I think it is really important to realize that God can work unimaginable miracles in your marriage and often those who stick together through the really tough times in marriage have the best marriages afterwords; the marriage covenant is something that should never be easily set aside. I do think there are a few really important things that should be considered as you pray and seek God's wisdom for your marriage.
1) You alluded to the idea that your husband is sometimes physically abusive; if this is true, don't allow yourself to continue to be abused! If your husband is physically abusing you or your children, CALL THE POLICE and get to a safe place away from him. You can remain committed to your marriage and honor God and your husband in that commitment without putting yourself or your children in danger. From a safe place, make sure your marriage is getting the help it needs to heal. Sometimes the most loving thing you can do for your husband (or wife) is to not allow him to continue in sinful behavior that is deeply damaging to himself and those closest to him.
2) Separation may be a good way to deal with some of the other issues you have described as well; however, it is always important to make sure that you have a plan for reconciliation and that YOU are committed to doing the hard work it will take to restore your marriage. Separation without a plan is nothing more than a "trial divorce" and usually results in divorce.
3) In all consider your heart; is your heart hoping your marriage will end or hoping that God will change your marriage into a marriage that reflects his love and grace. No one can tell you what God will do in your circumstances and divorce may be something that is entirely beyond your control, but your heart should always reflect the desires of your heavenly father and he is always hoping that both you and your husband will choose a loving and grace filled marriage. Too often the question Christians ask is "In what circumstances will God permit me to choose divorce?" when the question we should be asking is "What are the choices for my marriage that God desires for me to make and how do I rely on his strength to make those choices?"
I will be praying for your marriage,
Benelchi
_____________________________
אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage und... - 10/23/2009 9:07:58 AM
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Katie51
Posts: 227
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Your pastors wife was just wrong. Sounds like your counselors were not much better. You dont have to take abuse. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE ABUSE. Jesus was about relationships over rules. Love over following laws. He would never want His child hurt like you are being hurt. Would you sit there and allow your child to be hurt by someone? Of course not. How much more so Father God. You alone must decide what to do. For anyone to tell a woman she must stay in an abusive marriage is just wrong. God bless
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RE: Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage und... - 10/23/2009 11:15:20 AM
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allisonbrett
Posts: 837
Joined: 5/29/2008
From: A bit north of the Big Chicken
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quote:
I went to my pastor's wife for counseling. She said that no matter what he does to me, I have to stay. Christ died and suffered for us, so the least we can do it take the abuse or whatever the problems is, for His sake. She listed verses in the bible, which I am familiar with, stating no leaving unless he commits adultery.
I'm sorry but this is just WRONG. Take the abuse by our husbands regardless of what the problem is? No! Please find a Christian counselor who can help assist you in this. They can help you understand better his mental condition as well.
_____________________________
Allison
A work in progress so please be patient, God is still working on me. Ouch, it sure is painful!
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RE: Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage und... - 10/23/2009 12:03:10 PM
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laura...
Posts: 3284
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
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quote:
ORIGINAL: allisonbrett
quote:
I went to my pastor's wife for counseling. She said that no matter what he does to me, I have to stay. Christ died and suffered for us, so the least we can do it take the abuse or whatever the problems is, for His sake. She listed verses in the bible, which I am familiar with, stating no leaving unless he commits adultery.
I'm sorry but this is just WRONG. Take the abuse by our husbands regardless of what the problem is? No! Please find a Christian counselor who can help assist you in this. They can help you understand better his mental condition as well.
Not only is that wrong, it's a good way to end up dead. Do take some time to read in the Divorce one stop thread. There are some in there that believe as your pastor's wife does. There are many others who believe differently. It would be good for you to weigh both sides of the argument and the scriptures given.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage und... - 10/23/2009 12:43:44 PM
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enommaz
Posts: 5
Joined: 10/23/2009
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Hey Lorilynn777,
This is my first time posting here. I'm sorry about your marital situation and will pray that God's will be done. I have a question for you -- do you feel that because you got married for the wrong reasons initially, that in some sense you deserved some of what has happened to you? I'm not saying you feel this way now, I'm just wondering if you felt that way in the beginning.
First of all, it was very wise of you to take control of your financial situation -- you deserve major kudos for that. It is also very courageous for you to share your situation with members of this board. I believe that one of the important things to know is that God is always in control (even in our darkest of hours). A loving God would not want us to be abused (verbally, mentally, emotionally, or physically by anyone), nor would he want us to verbally, mentally, emotionally, or physically abuse others.
It sounds to me that you may have some issues with boundaries (saying this does not excuse your husbands behavior), and in need of understanding what your husbands bi-polar disorder is. You can't change your husband, but you can change how you relate to his behaviors (which is not easy, but through the grace of God very possible).
A child of God is worthy of no less than respect. You must respect yourself first and foremost, and learn to see yourself as God sees you. Divorce should always be a last result. Separation on the other hand, may be necessary if your husband can't respect your boundaries. In truth, God has given us all free will -- some of us misuse this. Your husband seems to be making unwise choices with his free will -- you can use yours wisely.
You said you're currently living like roommates, at this time (and it may be hard) try to see this as a blessing from God. Try to see it as God giving you the time to assess how to make your marriage anew. During this time, you can strengthen your relationship with Him. You can pray for the strength to love yourself more. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE ABUSED -- INSTANTLY REMOVE YOURSELF FROM A SITUATION LIKE THIS IF YOU ARE BEING PHYSICALLY ABUSED.
I don't know your financial situation, but there is a book on boundaries titled: Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of your Life (It's Christian based) by Henry Cloud & John Towsend -- they also did a book on marital boundaries as well. If you can afford it, it is worth it. It'll cause you take a hard look at yourself.
My advice is to trust in God, pray, love yourself more, begin to set appropriate boundaries (or learn how to set appropriate boundaries) with your husband and yourself. Talk to trusted people in your life, and others on this message board. It's going to be alright, not because I say, its because God is in control.
Be at peace. Be at calm. God is working on your marriage at this very moment.
< Message edited by enommaz -- 10/23/2009 12:53:35 PM >
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RE: Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage und... - 10/23/2009 12:46:51 PM
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northstar
Posts: 189
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
Lorilynn777,
There is really a lot of debate among Christians about exactly what circumstances allow for biblical divorce and there are two threads here on Crosswalk specifically for discussing those theological details. That being said, I think it is really important to realize that God can work unimaginable miracles in your marriage and often those who stick together through the really tough times in marriage have the best marriages afterwords; the marriage covenant is something that should never be easily set aside. I do think there are a few really important things that should be considered as you pray and seek God's wisdom for your marriage.
1) You alluded to the idea that your husband is sometimes physically abusive; if this is true, don't allow yourself to continue to be abused! If your husband is physically abusing you or your children, CALL THE POLICE and get to a safe place away from him. You can remain committed to your marriage and honor God and your husband in that commitment without putting yourself or your children in danger. From a safe place, make sure your marriage is getting the help it needs to heal. Sometimes the most loving thing you can do for your husband (or wife) is to not allow him to continue in sinful behavior that is deeply damaging to himself and those closest to him.
2) Separation may be a good way to deal with some of the other issues you have described as well; however, it is always important to make sure that you have a plan for reconciliation and that YOU are committed to doing the hard work it will take to restore your marriage. Separation without a plan is nothing more than a "trial divorce" and usually results in divorce.
3) In all consider your heart; is your heart hoping your marriage will end or hoping that God will change your marriage into a marriage that reflects his love and grace. No one can tell you what God will do in your circumstances and divorce may be something that is entirely beyond your control, but your heart should always reflect the desires of your heavenly father and he is always hoping that both you and your husband will choose a loving and grace filled marriage. Too often the question Christians ask is "In what circumstances will God permit me to choose divorce?" when the question we should be asking is "What are the choices for my marriage that God desires for me to make and how do I rely on his strength to make those choices?"
I will be praying for your marriage,
Benelchi
^ What Benelchi said. 
_____________________________
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
Psalm 122:6
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RE: Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage und... - 10/23/2009 12:47:26 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
Posts: 3595
Joined: 4/12/2005
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You know, even my most conservative Mennonite friends accept that there are times when a wife may not be able to live in the same house as her husband for safety reasons. While they consider marriage vows binding for life, if a man lives in violence and rebellion, they do not require that his wife remain within the same four walls, putting her children and herself at risk.  What they do require is that following the separation she lives a chaste and quiet life, and if she remains in the church she will not marry again because it goes against their understanding of Jesus' command (and yes, the same goes for a man in a similar situation).
Although I am more conservative on these boards, I do not believe that physical separation is always wrong. Sometimes it is necessary simply for safety, and sometimes it is actually the wake-up call needed by the spouse who's in the wrong. If you are convicted against divorce, it does not follow that you must simply sit there passively while someone beats you over the head, or screams at you. There are many, many healthy things that you can do from changing how you relate to this man to the possibility of a separation.
_____________________________
 Moo
The Ballad of Bad Biruk
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RE: Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage und... - 10/23/2009 12:50:33 PM
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northstar
Posts: 189
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
You know, even my most conservative Mennonite friends accept that there are times when a wife may not be able to live in the same house as her husband for safety reasons. While they consider marriage vows binding for life, if a man lives in violence and rebellion, they do not require that his wife remain within the same four walls, putting her children and herself at risk. What they do require is that following the separation she lives a chaste and quiet life, and if she remains in the church she will not marry again because it goes against their understanding of Jesus' command (and yes, the same goes for a man in a similar situation).
Although I am more conservative on these boards, I do not believe that physical separation is always wrong. Sometimes it is necessary simply for safety, and sometimes it is actually the wake-up call needed by the spouse who's in the wrong. If you are convicted against divorce, it does not follow that you must simply sit there passively while someone beats you over the head, or screams at you. There are many, many healthy things that you can do from changing how you relate to this man to the possibility of a separation.
Totally agree.
_____________________________
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
Psalm 122:6
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RE: Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage und... - 10/23/2009 4:21:59 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 2220
Joined: 9/26/2007
Status: offline
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(((((Lorilynn)))))
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lorilynn777
The surprise of my pregnancy triggered something in him and he began to get violently mad very easily.
That's an excuse. It's his choice.
quote:
he threatened to stab himself in the neck with a knife.
Generally people who threaten to kill themselves will later threaten to kill you. "Thou shalt not kill" is the basis of our self-defense laws in that we're not to let someone kill us, either. I think your life may be threatened soon. You have a responsibility to protect your life and the life of your child (imagine what that could do to your kid to see that).
quote:
After the abuse started so did his out of control spending begin.
His choice.
quote:
The bi-polar thing has become his excuse for behaving badly.
His choice.
quote:
stating no leaving unless he commits adultery.
Separation is not divorce. You can separate but not divorce. He could run up bills and leave you holding the bag - go see a lawyer.
quote:
Does this really constitute a marriage?
Physical abuse, verbal abuse, alienation (abandonment?), refusing the marriage bed, spending all the money, refusing communication, constant anger? You guys made a covenant of two people, but he's violating it at every turn. His choice.
quote:
he curses a ton. He says it isn't directed at me. I personally think it is when you ask someone a question or aim something at them using horrible curse words and taking the Lord's name in vain.
God said He won't hold a person doing this guiltless. He is also training your son to do this, in violation of bringing them up godly in the reverential awe and training of the Lord.
quote:
He says he is sick and can't help it.
His choice. Look at all the choices he's making - no one is holding a gun to his head, but he's full of excuses for why he is blowing one part of life after another. He knows it's wrong but wants an easy out so no one will hold him accountable. God will hld him accountable if he doesn't repent it.
quote:
The Word was always a sanctuary for me, but it has been bondage to me.
You are married to a man who is trashing God's plan for marriage and I fear your life may be in danger (ask a trained counselor about this). Please get yourself and son to safety - call the police for a ride or directions to a battered women's shelter (their location is secret to protect from violent men). If you have a dog or cat, give it away because you can't take them with you and I fear for their safety.
Your husband has been pushing you to see how much you'll take, and so far you've taken every bit of his outrageous behavior. How will he push the envelope next?
The Bible says "Do not murder." Don't let yourself be murdered; it's well-known that violent men can escalate to murdering their wives. Where then would your son be?
Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. 1 Cor. 7: 10, 11
God has directions for a woman who departs from her husband, even though it's not the ideal. Plan B, if you will. A husband who trashes his marriage causes her to seek safety for herself and the children; his choice, not hers.
When he can get his faith/anger/bi-polar/spending/cursing under control and keep it that way for a few years (yes, years) you can consider moving back in with him. If you leave, he's going to beg and promise anything to get you back (you've always given in before) and if you move back in, it will start again within days, likely. So let him live a "clean" life for several years. If he wants his marriage, he'll gladly wait and seriously work on his horribleness. It's his choice.
If he flips you off and finds another woman, there's your answer. See a lawyer before he runs up a couple hundred thousand dollars of debt and leaves you holding the bag.
I'm sorry, dear one. What a tough thing to live with. My mother lived with an evil, violent man for almost 50 years, and my brother is a violent sociopath who can't keep a job, a friend or a marriage (he's tried lots of times). It ruined her life and his and almost mine except for the grace of God.
I am praying for you today, and him. May God bring about a miracle! Meanwhile, protect yourself and your son, dear one.
[Is it possible he has a woman on the side? Not to alarm you, but what's he doing with his sex drive? Porn?]
< Message edited by deermousie -- 10/23/2009 4:28:42 PM >
_____________________________
"Through Gates of Splendor" by Elizabeth Elliot
"Federal Husband" by Doug Wilson
www.biblegateway.com for online concordance (I use it daily)
"Passion and Purity" by Elizabeth Elliot
And I think chickens are really funny
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RE: Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage und... - 10/23/2009 11:38:35 PM
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Anon101
Posts: 188
Joined: 10/21/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
Physical abuse, verbal abuse, alienation (abandonment?), refusing the marriage bed, spending all the money, refusing communication, constant anger? You guys made a covenant of two people, but he's violating it at every turn.
This is really at the heart of my question. Even though the physical abuse has eased up (he just throws things and breaks things now) is what we are living considered marriage? Yes, I endure verbal and mental abuse, which I have sadly gotten used to but the alienation and refusing the marriage bed and not loving your wife (as Christ loves the church) are directly against what Christ and apostle Paul commands. I'm looking at things from a scriptural basis. As my pastor's wife challenged me to do, find me one scripture in the bible that says you can leave if you are abused whether it be physically, emotionally, or mentally. I know it is common sense but I can't find it in the bible so do I know for sure it is scriptural? I can however, find stuff about alienation and abandonment and refusing the marriage bed. This is where the legality of the bible sometimes chokes me. I know that sounds bad. It is just where I am right now mentally, emotionally and spiritually.
Can vows just be meaningless words? Did God bring this marriage together or did I? What makes a marriage a real covenant? The words said once or the continuous actions and choices one makes? Can the vows be a lie just like others I live with? If he lied an never meant them, is this a marriage God brought together? Isn't a marriage between God and the couple? I feel as though I went ahead and married him even though deep down it wasn't God's will for me. BUT...the word "I feel" means nothing when it comes to God's word. I do believe however, that God does want to do a work in both of our lives. At present, I am almost making it more difficult for God to work on my husband because he's never alone, just him and the Lord. This also applies to me.
Thank you so much for your prayers. I need them like I need the air I breathe. I pray for wisdom, because if I separate, there will be consequences. He swore that if I left him, he would make our lives a "living Hell". I need the Lord and the wisdom of the Holy Spirit.
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RE: Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage und... - 10/23/2009 11:52:49 PM
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Anon101
Posts: 188
Joined: 10/21/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
I'm sorry, dear one. What a tough thing to live with. My mother lived with an evil, violent man for almost 50 years, and my brother is a violent sociopath who can't keep a job, a friend or a marriage (he's tried lots of times). It ruined her life and his and almost mine except for the grace of God.
I am praying for you today, and him. May God bring about a miracle! Meanwhile, protect yourself and your son, dear one.
I am so sorry to hear about your mother. You are living proof how good God is. You are a survivor. Both of us are. If is was not for the grace of God I don't think I'd be here. God is good!
This is why I don't want my horrible choice to ruin this beautiful child God gave me. I can ask the Lord to protect him, but at a certain point God requires me to ACT. What will his dad teach him? How to be horrible to people, speak nastily, anger, mommy is stupid? These are not things I want my son to learn. Your character is developed while you are still at home w/your parents.
I just wanted to reply to your post and thank you for sharing your story briefly even though we are not supposed to share personal stories.
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RE: Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage und... - 10/24/2009 12:29:08 AM
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Isaiah331516
Posts: 248
Joined: 1/5/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
You know, even my most conservative Mennonite friends accept that there are times when a wife may not be able to live in the same house as her husband for safety reasons. While they consider marriage vows binding for life, if a man lives in violence and rebellion, they do not require that his wife remain within the same four walls, putting her children and herself at risk. What they do require is that following the separation she lives a chaste and quiet life, and if she remains in the church she will not marry again because it goes against their understanding of Jesus' command (and yes, the same goes for a man in a similar situation).
Although I am more conservative on these boards, I do not believe that physical separation is always wrong. Sometimes it is necessary simply for safety, and sometimes it is actually the wake-up call needed by the spouse who's in the wrong. If you are convicted against divorce, it does not follow that you must simply sit there passively while someone beats you over the head, or screams at you. There are many, many healthy things that you can do from changing how you relate to this man to the possibility of a separation.
second that
i'm praying for you, sister. God bless you as you walk through this trial and afterward.
< Message edited by Isaiah331516 -- 10/24/2009 12:35:43 AM >
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RE: Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage und... - 10/24/2009 6:37:53 AM
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manda59
Posts: 8231
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lorilynn777
Even though the physical abuse has eased up (he just throws things and breaks things now) is what we are living considered marriage?
Him throwing things/breaking things means that you (and your child) remain at risk. It means he has a violent nature and you owe it to yourself and your child to get yourself out of there. Has he ever so far expressed any anger against your child?
quote:
As my pastor's wife challenged me to do, find me one scripture in the bible that says you can leave if you are abused whether it be physically, emotionally, or mentally. I know it is common sense but I can't find it in the bible so do I know for sure it is scriptural?
Sounds to me like you belong to a very legalistic, even possibly cultish, church where "if it's not in the Bible, we don't do it". What kind of church is it?
Do you have any family anywhere?
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"It is a serious stellar day when I agree with both Ruth and Manda." Surpassing Peace, November 2009
Proud Member of the Imperfect Wives' Club
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RE: Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage und... - 10/24/2009 3:09:43 PM
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myka
Posts: 981
Status: offline
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Malachi 2:15-17 (New International Version)
15 Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth.
16 "I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself with violence as well as with his garment," says the LORD Almighty.
So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.
---the word 'himself' can also be translated 'his wife'
God hates marital violence, and in my opinion, it breaks the marital covenant. If someone is being abused, they should ensure their own safety as well as others.
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RE: Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage und... - 10/24/2009 7:57:00 PM
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herestoresmysoul
Posts: 1479
Joined: 3/13/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
Malachi 2:15-17 (New International Version)
15 Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth.
16 "I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself with violence as well as with his garment," says the LORD Almighty.
So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.
---the word 'himself' can also be translated 'his wife'
God hates marital violence, and in my opinion, it breaks the marital covenant. If someone is being abused, they should ensure their own safety as well as others.
Yes and I am sure that God hates serious abuse, and sexual immorality more than he hates dicvorce.My feeling is that divorce makes Him sad but abuse and sexual sin make Him mad.
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RE: Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage und... - 10/24/2009 9:04:42 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 10990
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
Status: offline
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Please do not turn this into a thread debating divorce. CLICK HERE to debate when divorce is allowed.
Thank you!
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RE: Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage und... - 10/24/2009 10:26:17 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 4566
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
Malachi 2:15-17 (New International Version)
15 Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth.
16 "I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself with violence as well as with his garment," says the LORD Almighty.
So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.
---the word 'himself' can also be translated 'his wife'
The word "himself" is not even present in the Hebrew text, and "His wife" would be a completely invalid translation. The text literally says "He covers violence on his clothing"; "his clothing" appears as a single declined noun in the Hebrew text i.e. "לבושו" and there is no valid way of translating this as "his wife"
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אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Has anyone felt Jesus' laws on divorce/marriage und... - 10/24/2009 11:51:20 PM
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Anon101
Posts: 188
Joined: 10/21/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
Malachi 2:15-17 (New International Version)
15 Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth.
16 "I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself with violence as well as with his garment," says the LORD Almighty.
So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.
---the word 'himself' can also be translated 'his wife'
The word "himself" is not even present in the Hebrew text, and "His wife" would be a completely invalid translation. The text literally says "He covers violence on his clothing"; "his clothing" appears as a single declined noun in the Hebrew text i.e. "לבושו" and there is no valid way of translating this as "his wife"
What does verse 16 mean? His clothing is covering up violence? Does that mean evidence of violence like bruises and scars? Please shed more light of the text if you wouldn't mind.
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