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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Part 2)
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Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Part 2)
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Total Votes : 56
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(last vote on : 11/23/2009 3:42:06 PM)
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 1:16:12 AM
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shakezula
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
This whole thread can be shut down and the issue settled if everyone here will honestly answer one question:
Have you ever gone one day without sinning? The answer, with 100% certainty, is NO. If you answer otherwise, you are a liar and therefore a sinner.
Why play silly games and pretend that in this life we can be without sin? That pleasure comes to us in the eternal age to come, when we get our glorified bodies.
Amen, Manimal! You said it better than I did.
_____________________________
watch out for the oo moo and the blehblehbleh
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 1:22:55 AM
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shakezula
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Please speak for yourself ManimalX, and do not expect to get a yes answer tor your question. When one is at the level of maturity to consistantly choose not to sin, then by definition thier humility would preclude them from "Bragging" about it.
then why are you here making a case for yourself as an example, rc? a truly humble believer would not engage in discussions like this. if they believed that they could consistently choose not to sin, then they would resist discussions that would encourage prideful boasting, which is ultimately what this thread is about.
quote:
The silly game as I see it in the idea that God is playing some sick game with us by telling us to be obedient to Him, but at the same time not permitting that to happen. That just does not compute.
God created us to have free will. your argument teeters close to the atheists' argument that a moral God would not create a world where His creation would suffer or face eternal damnation.
_____________________________
watch out for the oo moo and the blehblehbleh
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 1:41:41 AM
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shakezula
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
How can you say so definately that not a single Christian has stopped sinning?
how can you say that not a single Christian can flap his arms and fly? God can do anything, right? and you haven't seen every Christian that ever existed, right?
the point is, yes, God has the ability to create people who do not sin or can fly. but there is no record of anyone doing these things. so it is foolish to argue as if there might be one.
quote:
That makes no sense compared to your answer to question #1.
SureHope's point is that with God, all things are possible (question 1), but question 2 illustrates that God chose not to create a world where humans are capable of all possibilities.
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If I live the next 5 seconds without sinning, then I have stopped sinning, my friend. And if I die after that 5 seconds, then I have lived the rest of my life without sinning, which means thousands, if not millions, of Christians have proven you wrong for #2.
no one is saying that you can't go 5 seconds without sinning. what we are saying is that you can't go a whole day without sinning.
here is a scientific example: research has shown that even the most attentive minds can stay focused on-task for about 70% of the time they are doing that task. so if you are praying for an hour or listening to an hour-long sermon, your thoughts will drift about at total of 18 minutes, even if it's just brief snippets of time spread out during that hour. so the human mind cannot maintain undivided attention to God for a full hour.
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You can't have it both ways, SH. You must throw away this false and unnecessary humility, brother.
humility is unnecessary??? i can't believe i just read that. that's a sinful statement.
< Message edited by shakezula -- 11/1/2009 1:57:47 AM >
_____________________________
watch out for the oo moo and the blehblehbleh
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 1:51:42 AM
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shakezula
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
What does 1 John 3:4-10 mean to you, minimoe?
1 John 3:4-10 refers to habitual sin. it's the difference between the occasional lustful thought and a deliberate seeking out of situations and activities that will cause lust.
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watch out for the oo moo and the blehblehbleh
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 2:10:58 AM
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ManimalX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shakezula
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
This whole thread can be shut down and the issue settled if everyone here will honestly answer one question:
Have you ever gone one day without sinning? The answer, with 100% certainty, is NO. If you answer otherwise, you are a liar and therefore a sinner.
Why play silly games and pretend that in this life we can be without sin? That pleasure comes to us in the eternal age to come, when we get our glorified bodies.
Amen, Manimal! You said it better than I did.
You mean, when we leave the Science forum we actually agree on something?!?! Sweet! 
And FWIW, you stated it pretty clearly yourself.
You know I love you, you big green frog with a big green afro/pompadour 
_____________________________
"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 2:42:14 AM
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ManimalX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
This whole thread can be shut down and the issue settled if everyone here will honestly answer one question:
Have you ever gone one day without sinning? Come on, MX, I know you're sharper than this pitiful argument! Have you ever gone a second without sinning? How about a minute or an hour? What if a Christian can go a whole day without willfully disobeying the known Will of God? How did they do that? It surely wasn't from their own ability, was it? So what happens when the "streak" is broken? Whose fault is it then? Did God make them sin?
If it is possible to stop sinning for a second, then it is possible to stop sinning for a day, and it's possible to stop sinning for a lifetime - ALWAYS BY THE GRACE OF GOD AND THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT!
Come on, Doc! I know you are sharper than this pitiful argument! 
Your conclusion doesn't work because the premise is flawed! The battle between the "old man" and the "new man" never goes away until we physically die or are translated into our glorified bodies.
Claiming that the ability to not sin for one second necessitates the ability to not sin for a lifetime is a non-starter. That is exactly the same as claiming that since I can hold my breath for one second, I can hold my breath the rest of my life, or that since I can jump 1" in the air I can jump all the way past the moon and into deep space, or that because my car can reach a speed of 1mph it can also go the speed of light.
No. I can hold my breath, but not for the rest of my life because my physical body in its current configuration has to have a constant supply of oxygen. I can't jump past the moon and into deep space because my body in its current configuration cannot cause my leg muscles to produce enough force to overcome Earth's gravity. My car can only go about 110mph because the engine in its current configuration can only process a specific amount of 87 octane gasoline through 4 cylinders which can never result in enough energy to propel the car as fast as light.
(ok, so the "car" is a mini-van, and it only reaches 110mph if it is going downhill with a stiff wind at its back)
Just the same, the current configuration of our beings only allows us so much success in the ability to not sin. Our "new man" is still connected to our "old flesh".
It isn't just a matter of willpower, it is a matter of physical reality! Sin is still a part of our being. We will fight against it every day of our pre-glorified lives, and we will never have complete victory until we are glorified. Fortunately, Jesus paid for the sins we committed BEFORE coming to Him, as well as those we commit AFTER coming to Him.
I don't know if anyone has discussed Romans 7:14-25 yet, but Paul proved exactly what folks like Shakez and I are claiming, and he stated it in as clear a manner as possible
"14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. 21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin."
_____________________________
"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 2:53:33 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 2573
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Please speak for yourself ManimalX, and do not expect to get a yes answer tor your question. When one is at the level of maturity to consistantly choose not to sin, then by definition thier humility would preclude them from "Bragging" about it.
If it were Scriptural that we can, in this life, become sinless (which it isn't), why would it be "bragging" for someone to come out and proclaim, "Hey all of my brothers and sister in Christ, guess what?!?! That teaching that we can stop sinning is true because I haven't sinned for a day/week/month/year/decade!!!!!!!"
That wouldn't be "bragging", it would be boasting in the Lord!
So how about it, RC? Have you ever gone 24 hours without sinning since you became a Christian? I've been one for nearly 30 years and have sinned every day of it, no matter how hard I try not to.
quote:
The silly game as I see it in the idea that God is playing some sick game with us by telling us to be obedient to Him, but at the same time not permitting that to happen. That just does not compute.
Thanks
RC
It isn't a "sick game". It is a hope for the parousia and our eternal glorified state! It is a hope for the full payment of which we have only received a down payment!
_____________________________
"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 3:03:54 AM
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ManimalX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
Have you gone the whole day without assuming you know the hearts and minds of every believer that has ever existed, judging them for sin you know nothing about, hence bearing false witness and vain communication? The answer, with 100% certainty, is NO. If you answer otherwise, we will allow your own words to speak for themselves.
You are absolutely right: I have never gone the whole day or even one second assuming I know the hearts and minds of every believer that has ever existed. I am going off of Scripture, not my personal assumptions, and Scripture doesn't teach that sinless perfection is attainable in a pre-glorified condition.
Communicating God's Word is hardly "vain communication".
You can disagree with it. That is fine. Keep trying to stop sinning! I know I do! We are told to try! You are still saved, and will never be lost, but the difference between you and I will be that you continue living a life frustrated that you aren't ever reaching a state of sinless perfection, while I will live angry (convicted) when I sin, but content with the fact that I will always sin until I am glorified, all the while joyful that Jesus expected as much and covers even my post-salvic sins.
_____________________________
"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 3:20:57 AM
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ManimalX
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I have several questions to which I will also provide the correct answers as I understand them. I will then provide a syllogism that represents the results of holding to the belief of sinless perfection.
Q: According to the sinless perfection crowd, how is sinless perfection accomplished?
A: By the power of the Holy Spirit
Q: Did the Holy Spirit exist before the death and resurrection of Jesus?
A: Yes
Q: Was the Holy Spirit active in creation before the death and resurrection of Jesus?
A: Yes
Q: Was the Holy Spirit limited in power before the death and resurrection of Jesus?
A: No
Q: Did the Holy Spirit indwell and empower humans before the death and resurrection of Jesus?
A: Yes, all throughout the OT.
So, the syllogism that has to be held by the sinless perfection crowd looks like this:
1. Sinless perfection is able to be attained by Christians in a pre-glorified state by the power of the Holy Spirit.
2. The Holy Spirit has always existed.
3. The Holy Spirit has always been active in Creation.
4. The activity of the Holy Spirit in Creation before the death and resurrection of Jesus has included the indwelling and empowering of human beings.
5. The Holy Spirit has never been powerless or in a state of reduced power.
6. Therefore, it is possible that the Holy Spirit could have empowered any human since Adam & Eve to be sinless.
7. Therefore, Jesus Christ loses the status of the only possible sinless sacrifice for all sins.
8. Therefore, the work of Jesus Christ was not necessary, as it could have been carried out by any sinless person.
So, where is my understanding flawed?
< Message edited by ManimalX -- 11/1/2009 3:28:45 AM >
_____________________________
"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 5:08:02 AM
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SureHope
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
You must throw away this false and unnecessary humility, brother.
The attitude that would say something like this is the root and fruit of the doctrine of sinless perfection. By the way, humility is never “unnecessary,” but dialogue with someone that would that would lower their argument to this, is.
Blessings to you,
SH
_____________________________
-Fix Your Hope Completely on the Grace to be Brought to You at the Revelation of Jesus Christ (1 Pet 1:13)
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 8:31:28 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
This whole thread can be shut down and the issue settled if everyone here will honestly answer one question:
Have you ever gone one day without sinning? Come on, MX, I know you're sharper than this pitiful argument! Have you ever gone a second without sinning? How about a minute or an hour? What if a Christian can go a whole day without willfully disobeying the known Will of God? How did they do that? It surely wasn't from their own ability, was it? So what happens when the "streak" is broken? Whose fault is it then? Did God make them sin?
If it is possible to stop sinning for a second, then it is possible to stop sinning for a day, and it's possible to stop sinning for a lifetime - ALWAYS BY THE GRACE OF GOD AND THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT!
Come on, Doc! I know you are sharper than this pitiful argument!
Your conclusion doesn't work because the premise is flawed! The battle between the "old man" and the "new man" never goes away until we physically die or are translated into our glorified bodies.
Claiming that the ability to not sin for one second necessitates the ability to not sin for a lifetime is a non-starter. That is exactly the same as claiming that since I can hold my breath for one second, I can hold my breath the rest of my life, or that since I can jump 1" in the air I can jump all the way past the moon and into deep space, or that because my car can reach a speed of 1mph it can also go the speed of light.
No. I can hold my breath, but not for the rest of my life because my physical body in its current configuration has to have a constant supply of oxygen. I can't jump past the moon and into deep space because my body in its current configuration cannot cause my leg muscles to produce enough force to overcome Earth's gravity. My car can only go about 110mph because the engine in its current configuration can only process a specific amount of 87 octane gasoline through 4 cylinders which can never result in enough energy to propel the car as fast as light.
(ok, so the "car" is a mini-van, and it only reaches 110mph if it is going downhill with a stiff wind at its back)
Just the same, the current configuration of our beings only allows us so much success in the ability to not sin. Our "new man" is still connected to our "old flesh".
It isn't just a matter of willpower, it is a matter of physical reality! Sin is still a part of our being. We will fight against it every day of our pre-glorified lives, and we will never have complete victory until we are glorified. Fortunately, Jesus paid for the sins we committed BEFORE coming to Him, as well as those we commit AFTER coming to Him.
I don't know if anyone has discussed Romans 7:14-25 yet, but Paul proved exactly what folks like Shakez and I are claiming, and he stated it in as clear a manner as possible
"14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. 21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin."
And when Paul was writing Romans 7 he was speaking to his life before Christ, just keep reading as the next verse (Romans 8:1) and the continuing passage (romans 8:2-17) explain very plainy the difference between following the flesh and following the Spirit.
I especially like;
(Rom 8:13) For if you live according to the flesh, you shall die. But if you through the Spirit mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.
(Rom 8:14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
(Rom 8:15) For you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption by which we cry, Abba, Father!
Which really shows the reasons for following after the Spirit (not sinning) and following after the flesh (continuing to sin).
As Paul wrote in verse 6
(Rom 6:1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
(Rom 6:2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
God has made a way for a Christian not to sin (1 Cor 10:13), and Christians should be about making that choice to do something that God forbids.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 8:39:26 AM
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drmark
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quote:
1 John 3:4-10 refers to habitual sin. I do not see the word "habitual" in the original text at all, shakez. Could you point out the Greek word for me if I missed it? Instead, John clearly states in 3:6 that no one who abides in Christ keeps on sinning! If a Christian is sinning right now, then they are not abiding in Christ. Obviously, when we abide in Christ it is possible to not sin.
quote:
The battle between the "old man" and the "new man" never goes away until we physically die or are translated into our glorified bodies. That's not what Paul shouts out in Romans 7:25! BTW, MX, is Romans 8 missing from your Bible?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 9:11:09 AM
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drmark
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quote:
So, where is my understanding flawed? I will show you exactly where its flawed, MX. Right between #6 and #7! Since Adam and Eve did indeed sin, we all now have a sin nature which makes us all sin. So apparently, God sovereignly chose to "reduce the power" (your words, not mine) of the Holy Spirit which allows then that all people have sinned and fallen short of His glory. Thus, Christ remains the only possible sinless Sacrifice for all sins. Frankly, MX, I'm a little surprised that I should be explaining total depravity to a good Calvinist...
Now, I have a syllogism for you, if that's what you call it (I'm not much into this philosophy thing). Here goes:
1) Any Christian can stop sinning for a moment.
2) This momentary ability of one Christian to not sin is solely by God's grace and power.
3) God is infinite so His power is omnipotent.
4) Therefore, all Christians can stop sinning for a moment.
5) God is infinite so His grace is eternal.
6) Therefore, one Christian can stop sinning for a lifetime.
7) Conclusion: ALL Christians can stop sinning for a LIFETIME.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 2:35:18 PM
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tdd1975
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
1 John 3:4-10 refers to habitual sin. I do not see the word "habitual" in the original text at all, shakez. Could you point out the Greek word for me if I missed it? Instead, John clearly states in 3:6 that no one who abides in Christ keeps on sinning! If a Christian is sinning right now, then they are not abiding in Christ. Obviously, when we abide in Christ it is possible to not sin.
1Jn 3:9 KJVR Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Well since you are going to use the hyper legalistic interpretation I guess the Christian doesn't sin because he can't sin. 
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 2:44:09 PM
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tdd1975
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
3.) Question: Is it possible for people to only assume they have stopped sinning without actually doing so?
Answer: Yes Does God convict His children of their sinning? How could a child of God "assume" they are not sinning if God convicts them of their sin?
Yes we agree the Holy Spirit convicts His children? Does the lack of conviction automatically mean "mission accomplished" or could it also mean that people aren't listen to the convictions of the Holy Spirit or worse yet that there is not Holy Spirit?
quote:
I have another question for you, tdd. Is it possible that some of the things I think, do and say are not considered sinning for me by God, but are considered sinning for you by God? And, in all fairness, vice versa.
Some things, yes. I will grant you that one. It is possible for any of us to be in error on different things. In fact there are probably some things that all of us at one time thought were sins that after studying God's word and growing in grace realized that they were not.
But it is my experience and my understanding of Scripture that men are much more likely to think too highly of themselves than they are to think too low.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 2:51:22 PM
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tdd1975
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: tdd1975
I would like to add a third question if it is ok Surehope.
3.) Question: Is it possible for people to only assume they have stopped sinning without actually doing so?
Answer: Yes
And a fourth question;
It is possible for folks to point fingers and claim that no one can be obedient to God and life a live unto righteousness, just to try and jusify thier own serving the flesh.
You betcha it is, and a lot that right here on the forums.
I believe that we can live obedient righteous lives to God. I just don't agree with you that we do it perfectly. Not yet.
quote:
God tells us to live a holy and sanctified life, God makes provisions for us to do it; so we should do it, and not be making up excuses to not be obedient.
Thanks
RC
I agree. He describes his children as a peculiar people who are zealous of good works. And you are right we shouldn't make excuses. I just don't believe we do it perfectly. Not yet.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 3:01:25 PM
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tdd1975
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
ORIGINAL: tdd1975
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Have you ever gone one day without sinning? The answer, with 100% certainty, is NO. If you answer otherwise, you are a liar and therefore a sinner.
Please speak for yourself ManimalX, and do not expect to get a yes answer tor your question. When one is at the level of maturity to consistantly choose not to sin, then by definition thier humility would preclude them from "Bragging" about it.
Answering a question is bragging? That is mock humility R C. James.
Jesus said in Joh 8:29 KJV(29) I do always those things that please him.
Was he bragging? I think He was just stating a fact.
Except Jesus never allowed Himself to be a victim of silly pointless games. He perceived the motives of the attackers and answered wisely.
No one needs to proclaim that they have not sinned because what we do does not determine truth. All I need to do is proclaim what the Bible says. That's what Jesus did, right?
This makes no sense. A doctrine we can't apply is no good to us. Do you go around telling people that it is true that Jesus can save them and then tell them that you yourself aren't saved?
Would it be bragging to tell someone that you were?
If the doctrine of perfection is no good to you then why are trying to sell it to others? We aren't dealing with abstract hypothetical situations. This is supposed to be real life practical stuff.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 3:04:44 PM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 1778
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quote:
how can you say that not a single Christian can flap his arms and fly? God can do anything, right? and you haven't seen every Christian that ever existed, right?
the point is, yes, God has the ability to create people who do not sin or can fly. but there is no record of anyone doing these things. so it is foolish to argue as if there might be one.
You're parallel makes no sense, shakezula. You do not know the hearts and minds of every Christian that has lived, is living, or will live in the future. Therefore, you can not possibly state as a matter of fact that not a single Christian has stopped sinning. To say otherwise is quite the arrogant statement.
quote:
no one is saying that you can't go 5 seconds without sinning. what we are saying is that you can't go a whole day without sinning.
Again, you're wrong. That is not what this thread asks, my friend. Did you read my first post? I asked if it were literally possible for a Christian to live the rest of his life without sin. If the rest of a Christian's life is 5 seconds, and Christians can live 5 seconds without sin, then the answer to this thread is YES.
quote:
humility is unnecessary??? i can't believe i just read that. that's a sinful statement.
Where did I say that humility is unnecessary? Let's look at what I said, shakezula.
"You must throw away this (implying a different kind of something, explained with the following adjectives) false and unnecessary (this kind of) humility, brother.
I did not sat that humility is unnecessary. Pleas stay on track lest you bear false witness.
_____________________________
< Don't make fun of my deer. It's spethal!
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 3:08:21 PM
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evry1needsgod
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MX,
quote:
You are absolutely right: I have never gone the whole day or even one second assuming I know the hearts and minds of every believer that has ever existed.
This is not what I said, sir.
If you continue to assume you know the hearts of every believer, and if you continue to judge them of sin that you know nothing about and that they are not guilty of, then I will respectfully demand that you discontinue posting on this thread. It was individuals who did this in my last thread that got it deleted, and thank God they no longer are allowed on these forums. Please stop.
In Christ,
ZG
_____________________________
< Don't make fun of my deer. It's spethal!
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 3:12:32 PM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 1778
Joined: 2/4/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SureHope
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
You must throw away this false and unnecessary humility, brother.
The attitude that would say something like this is the root and fruit of the doctrine of sinless perfection. By the way, humility is never “unnecessary,” but dialogue with someone that would that would lower their argument to this, is.
Blessings to you,
SH
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that your bias and emotions subconsciously predetermined how you would interpret my words without actually reading what I LITERALLY said, instead of assuming that you misrepresented me on purpose. Go back and read what I wrote LITERALLY, and also read my response to shakezula concerning my statement on humility. If you then have questions, I'll be more than happy to answer them, but I think I made myself quite clear in my response to shakezula. I did not say that humility is unnecessary. Be a little more careful next time, SH, and read a little slower. Thanks.
In Christ,
ZG
_____________________________
< Don't make fun of my deer. It's spethal!
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 3:22:28 PM
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evry1needsgod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tdd1975
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
ORIGINAL: tdd1975
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Have you ever gone one day without sinning? The answer, with 100% certainty, is NO. If you answer otherwise, you are a liar and therefore a sinner.
Please speak for yourself ManimalX, and do not expect to get a yes answer tor your question. When one is at the level of maturity to consistantly choose not to sin, then by definition thier humility would preclude them from "Bragging" about it.
Answering a question is bragging? That is mock humility R C. James.
Jesus said in Joh 8:29 KJV(29) I do always those things that please him.
Was he bragging? I think He was just stating a fact.
Except Jesus never allowed Himself to be a victim of silly pointless games. He perceived the motives of the attackers and answered wisely.
No one needs to proclaim that they have not sinned because what we do does not determine truth. All I need to do is proclaim what the Bible says. That's what Jesus did, right?
This makes no sense. A doctrine we can't apply is no good to us. Do you go around telling people that it is true that Jesus can save them and then tell them that you yourself aren't saved?
Would it be bragging to tell someone that you were?
If the doctrine of perfection is no good to you then why are trying to sell it to others? We aren't dealing with abstract hypothetical situations. This is supposed to be real life practical stuff.
But I have never denied that it is possible for me to stop sinning. Tdd, your debating apples and oranges. It's one thing to preach a doctrine that you do not even believe; and it's another thing to preach the doctrine of sinless perfection EVEN THOUGH I perhaps will sin in the future! Like I said, I am allowed to preach against lying EVEN THOUGH in the future I might tell a lie. My telling the lie does not change the Biblical truth of lying being sinful! And any sin that I might commit in the future DOES NOT change the Biblical truth that Christians can live the rest of their life without committing another sin.
What I do does not change truth. Think about that in its most literal sense before you respond.
Therefore, I feel no obligation to tell ANYONE how long (years, weeks, days, hours, minutes, or seconds) it's been since I've been perfect! That is a silly and pointless game that accomplishes absolutely nothing, because no matter what evry1needsgod does, truth remains truth!
And since there is no possible way that ANYONE can know the souls of ANYONE else but themselves, such a game can prove nothing except prideful assumptions of anther's spiritual life. Don't you see the wickedness in such a judgmental and deceptive "proof"? If this is the best one can do to "prove" the answer of this thread is NO, one's got a lot more work to do.
_____________________________
< Don't make fun of my deer. It's spethal!
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 3:37:18 PM
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drmark
Posts: 4637
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:
But it is my experience and my understanding of Scripture that men are much more likely to think too highly of themselves than they are to think too low. Then I would say that you have known not near enough men (and women!) whose hearts have been perfected in Christ's Love! Because the exact opposite is true in my experience and my understanding of Scripture. Men (and women) who have consecrated their entire being to God and graciously received His blessing of sanctification know precisely what He alone has done for them and how He alone empowers them to live above sin every day for His glory alone.
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 3:41:48 PM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 1778
Joined: 2/4/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
But it is my experience and my understanding of Scripture that men are much more likely to think too highly of themselves than they are to think too low. Then I would say that you have known not near enough men (and women!) whose hearts have been perfected in Christ's Love! Because the exact opposite is true in my experience and my understanding of Scripture. Men (and women) who have consecrated their entire being to God and graciously received His blessing of sanctification know precisely what He alone has done for them and how He alone empowers them to live above sin every day for His glory alone.
Precisely! Too many people assume that perfection = man-centeredness. But that could not be further from the truth. Actually, it is more Christ-centered than anything you can imagine, because without the power of Christ and leading of the Holy Spirit, sinlessness would be IMPOSSIBLE!
_____________________________
< Don't make fun of my deer. It's spethal!
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 3:43:02 PM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 1778
Joined: 2/4/2008
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I wonder if any of the 14 people who voted "No" can truthfully sing the Christian anthem "Victory in Jesus".
We sang that song in church and I thought about this thread. I know for sure that I can sing that song with absolute certainty, AMEN!!!!!!!
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< Don't make fun of my deer. It's spethal!
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/1/2009 4:01:27 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6747
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
I wonder if any of the 14 people who voted "No" can truthfully sing the Christian anthem "Victory in Jesus".
We sang that song in church and I thought about this thread. I know for sure that I can sing that song with absolute certainty, AMEN!!!!!!!
Excellent point E1nG.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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