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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Part 2)
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Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Part 2)
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Total Votes : 56
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(last vote on : 11/23/2009 3:42:06 PM)
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 4:55:26 PM
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Intrepidus
Posts: 104
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
I think it depends entirely on how you define "sin."
If you define sin as deliberately doing something you know is wrong in God's eyes, then yeah, you can stop sinning.
If you define sin as "missing the mark" of perfection, then no, you cannot. You can strive to be more perfect, but you never will achieve it.
Ps103,
An excellent distinction! There are sins of commission (doing that which God forbids) and sins of omission (failing to do what God commands). Moreover, even when we do the things we should, they are rarely, if ever, done perfectly. Christian theologians have often said that in order for a work to be truly good, it must be done (a) in obedience to God, (b) with faith in Him, and (c) to His glory alone. Anything less, and the otherwise 'good' work is tainted. I don't know about you, but even my "best stuff" is tainted. I share in Isaiah's lament: "All our righteous acts are like filthy rags" (64:6).
I strive to live-up to God's calling, but I don't wake-up every morning thinking, "OK. I can be perfect today. Just gotta try a little harder. You know what they say: the 11,312th time is a charm!" Nor do I hang my head at the end of the day, lamenting my absolute failure (for the 11,312th time). I realize that I won't be perfect until Christ returns and I'm glorified. Even so, I do not shrink back from the struggle to mortify sin in my life. Rather, I have a realistic expectation of the battle.
In Him,
-Intrepidus
PS. It's great to see you again, Margo! I like what you've done with the place. ;)
< Message edited by Intrepidus -- 10/23/2009 5:01:57 PM >
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 4:57:41 PM
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WilliamtheConqueror
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Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil. Jeremiah 13:23
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 5:00:56 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 879
Joined: 12/8/2007
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quote:
First, this all depends on what you mean by "to be without sin in their lives". If you mean that you've never once heard a person claim that they are, at the moment they are speaking to you, forgiven and without sin at the moment, then you are quite shelter, brother.
No. What I mean is that I have never heard anyone claim that they have not committed a single sin since their Spiritual rebirth. Further, I have never heard anyone claim that they have not committed a single sin this year. Can you make such a claim? I know I can't. I don't see Biblical evidence that anyone actually ceased to commit another sin for the rest of their lives (which is what I mean by stop sinning) after their Spiritual rebirth. If you can show it to me, I'll believe you. It just seems a bit off to hear people telling us that we can and should all be perfect when nobody has yet claimed to actually have achieved this. It reminds me of the speck vs plank lesson from Matthew 7.
_____________________________
"O LORD, You have pleaded my soul's cause; You have redeemed my life." - Lamentations 3:58
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 5:34:49 PM
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Catholicandloveit
Posts: 675
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
You can strive to be more perfect, but you never will achieve it.
I think it depends on what type of perfection we are working on achieving.
edited to add
Webster Perfection-
1 : the quality or state of being perfect: as a : freedom from fault or defect : flawlessness b : maturity c : the quality or state of being saintly
2 a : an exemplification of supreme excellence b : an unsurpassable degree of accuracy or excellence
If its 1 or 2a it can be reached in this life we can be with out vice, fault, defect, and sin we can be saintly, in perfect unity with God in this life.
If its 2b not the type of perfection I think we are talking about.
I think that only a small % of Christians achieve this unity in this life, the majority of us will not get there till the next, and I think thats okay so long as it is what we are working towards.
Mary
< Message edited by Catholicandloveit -- 10/23/2009 6:28:29 PM >
_____________________________
Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 5:48:42 PM
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drmark
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quote:
However, I believe most of us are guilty of sinning out of ignorance. Johnny, would you please provide an example of this?
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And most of us also struggle with some type of personal sin Johnny, isn't all sin "personal"? What do you mean by this distinction?
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However, God knowing our weak physical being made provisions for forgiveness when we do sin. Qtman, how does a "weak physical being" relate to sinning here and now? All of us will have weak physical beings until we reach heaven, right?
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Ps103, I think you nailed it. Herein lies the brunt of the discussion, and I look forward to the conversations that lie ahead. So should we define "sinning" first before accumulating 60 more pages of discussion?
quote:
Bertha Smith, Southern Baptist Missionary, claimed she had reached sinless perfection! Well, I don't know Ms Bertha, but I would humbly say that God has blessed me with sinless perfection, by His grace and power. It had absolutely nothing to do with my reaching anything!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 5:58:16 PM
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shemaromans
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Thank you for the invite to participate, ev1. I think I'm going to sit it out this time, though.
_____________________________
“By perseverance the snail reached the ark.”
-- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 6:34:42 PM
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Focusing
Posts: 5177
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
So should we define "sinning" first before accumulating 60 more pages of discussion?
That discussion is over in the other thread.
_____________________________
Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you.
Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 6:58:54 PM
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tdd1975
Posts: 751
Joined: 2/12/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Intrepidus
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
I think it depends entirely on how you define "sin."
If you define sin as deliberately doing something you know is wrong in God's eyes, then yeah, you can stop sinning.
If you define sin as "missing the mark" of perfection, then no, you cannot. You can strive to be more perfect, but you never will achieve it.
Ps103,
An excellent distinction! There are sins of commission (doing that which God forbids) and sins of omission (failing to do what God commands). Moreover, even when we do the things we should, they are rarely, if ever, done perfectly. Christian theologians have often said that in order for a work to be truly good, it must be done (a) in obedience to God, (b) with faith in Him, and (c) to His glory alone. Anything less, and the otherwise 'good' work is tainted. I don't know about you, but even my "best stuff" is tainted. I share in Isaiah's lament: "All our righteous acts are like filthy rags" (64:6).
I strive to live-up to God's calling, but I don't wake-up every morning thinking, "OK. I can be perfect today. Just gotta try a little harder. You know what they say: the 11,312th time is a charm!" Nor do I hang my head at the end of the day, lamenting my absolute failure (for the 11,312th time). I realize that I won't be perfect until Christ returns and I'm glorified. Even so, I do not shrink back from the struggle to mortify sin in my life. Rather, I have a realistic expectation of the battle.
In Him,
-Intrepidus
PS. It's great to see you again, Margo! I like what you've done with the place. ;)
Amen to both. How we define sin is the heart of the debate. And to me the biggest problem I have with those who claim perfection is that there is no continual striving to live up to God’s calling. They redefine sin in a way that they can say they are sinless and then make a false peace with what to me is real sin. Even though as you said there are differences.
1Jn 5:17 KJV All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
Even though there are differences in sin commission, omission, and sins of ignorance, the fact remains that all unrighteousness is sin. And unless we are willing to say that we already in the perfect image of Christ then we must admit that there is still unrighteousness in us that needs to be fought against, killed, or repented of. However someone wants to say it.
1Jn 3:3 ESV And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.
Striving or purifying but not there yet.
Guess I better run for the hills now!!!
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 6:59:20 PM
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stampinlady
Posts: 2594
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Isn't the greek word used in 1 John Harmatia and it means to "miss the mark" as like an arrow not hitting the center?
A sales person calls and my son answers the phone. He asks for a parent, I don't want to talk to him and tell my son to tell him that I'm not home. Didn't I just lie? Yes. Could I have said I was busy? Yes, but what if I was just sitting there doing nothing. I'm not busy.
People do that all the time, heck I've done it and knew I was lieing. I don't do that anymore because I know it's wrong. I have made a choice not to sin.
< Message edited by stampinlady -- 10/23/2009 7:08:52 PM >
_____________________________
Deb
"When the fufillment comes the types and shadows cease."
Author unknown
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 7:01:57 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 879
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tdd1975
quote:
ORIGINAL: Intrepidus
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
I think it depends entirely on how you define "sin."
If you define sin as deliberately doing something you know is wrong in God's eyes, then yeah, you can stop sinning.
If you define sin as "missing the mark" of perfection, then no, you cannot. You can strive to be more perfect, but you never will achieve it.
Ps103,
An excellent distinction! There are sins of commission (doing that which God forbids) and sins of omission (failing to do what God commands). Moreover, even when we do the things we should, they are rarely, if ever, done perfectly. Christian theologians have often said that in order for a work to be truly good, it must be done (a) in obedience to God, (b) with faith in Him, and (c) to His glory alone. Anything less, and the otherwise 'good' work is tainted. I don't know about you, but even my "best stuff" is tainted. I share in Isaiah's lament: "All our righteous acts are like filthy rags" (64:6).
I strive to live-up to God's calling, but I don't wake-up every morning thinking, "OK. I can be perfect today. Just gotta try a little harder. You know what they say: the 11,312th time is a charm!" Nor do I hang my head at the end of the day, lamenting my absolute failure (for the 11,312th time). I realize that I won't be perfect until Christ returns and I'm glorified. Even so, I do not shrink back from the struggle to mortify sin in my life. Rather, I have a realistic expectation of the battle.
In Him,
-Intrepidus
PS. It's great to see you again, Margo! I like what you've done with the place. ;)
Amen to both. How we define sin is the heart of the debate. And to me the biggest problem I have with those who claim perfection is that there is no continual striving to live up to God’s calling. They redefine sin in a way that they can say they are sinless and then make a false peace with what to me is real sin. Even though as you said there are differences.
1Jn 5:17 KJV All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
Even though there are differences in sin commission, omission, and sins of ignorance, the fact remains that all unrighteousness is sin. And unless we are willing to say that we already in the perfect image of Christ then we must admit that there is still unrighteousness in us that needs to be fought against, killed, or repented of. However someone wants to say it.
1Jn 3:3 ESV And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.
Striving or purifying but not there yet.
Guess I better run for the hills now!!!
quote:
And unless we are willing to say that we already in the perfect image of Christ then we must admit that there is still unrighteousness in us that needs to be fought against, killed, or repented of. However someone wants to say it.
1Jn 3:3 ESV And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.
Striving or purifying but not there yet.
Guess I better run for the hills now!!!
Very well said. Perfect sinlessness is never being anything short of 100% righteous at any moment.
_____________________________
"O LORD, You have pleaded my soul's cause; You have redeemed my life." - Lamentations 3:58
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 7:13:34 PM
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rcjames
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The Apostle gives us very plain instructions on how we are to live our lives;
(Rom 12:1,2) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Jesus states;
(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
and
(Joh 15:10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
I have yet to find where Christ said go and sin some more, so sin should be Passe' if the person is a Christian.
How oh how is this possible?
God's promise is;
(1Co 10:13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
So for a Christian to sin or not to sin is a matter of believing the Word and simply making the choice not to sin.
It ain't rocket science, it is Faith in the Word of God.
Thanks
RC
P.S. But praise God for His grace and if we do stumble, then confess, repent, and seek forgiveness then we are back in the good graces of God. 1 John 2:1
< Message edited by rcjames -- 10/23/2009 7:20:05 PM >
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 7:28:15 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 6323
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From: Crimson Tide Country
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quote:
quote:
However, God knowing our weak physical being made provisions for forgiveness when we do sin.
quote:
Qtman, how does a "weak physical being" relate to sinning here and now? All of us will have weak physical beings until we reach heaven, right?
I thought I said that pretty clear. Yes we all have a weak physical beings. That will change only when we are with Jesus in Heaven. I think you know what I was saying. To sum it up and put it in a nut shell we are told to be perfect. God knows our weaknesses and as Rcjames said forgives us when we stumble. In other words He made a provision for forgiveness when we sin. I agree with the OP that we can stop sinning. However, I also know none of can calim we have. At least not for longer than a short period. But we are forgiven.
_____________________________
At one time Jesus was my co-pilot. Things are much better now that He and I have changed seats.
<Me & my happyplate at Lobster Hut
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 7:41:36 PM
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Intrepidus
Posts: 104
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
Very well said. Perfect sinlessness is never being anything short of 100% righteous at any moment.
quote:
ORIGINAL: tdd1975
And to me the biggest problem I have with those who claim perfection is that there is no continual striving to live up to God’s calling. They redefine sin in a way that they can say they are sinless and then make a false peace with what to me is real sin.
Gentlemen,
I don't want to turn this into an "Amen!" fest or become a forum cheerleader. But to both of you, I say: Amen! Well said!
To those who honestly think they are sinless, I would ask: Do you love God, every conscious moment of your existence, with all your heart, soul, mind and strength? At the same time, do you love your neighbor as yourself? Moreover, do you do these perfectly? For that is the standard of Christian perfection set forth in Scripture. That is the Bible's definition of sinlessness. To sin is to miss this mark Note well that you cannot slip even once, else you disqualify yourself from perfection.
Let's not downgrade our definition of sin in order to meet an artificial standard. That's precisely what the Pharisees did to God's Law.
In Him,
-Intrepidus
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 8:01:29 PM
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Qtman
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But if I understand the OP correctly this thread is not about sinless perfection. I believe we will all reach sinless perfection but not in this lifetime. This thread is about the possibility of not sinning. I believe it is entirely possible. Improbable as it may be it is still possible. We would not have been told to do so if it were not possible. As I said before God knows our flesh is weak and if we stumble, and we will, God is there to forgive us. But the fact we may all stumble does not negate the possibility of not sinning.
_____________________________
At one time Jesus was my co-pilot. Things are much better now that He and I have changed seats.
<Me & my happyplate at Lobster Hut
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 8:06:44 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 879
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How is "not sinning" different than "sinless perfection"?
_____________________________
"O LORD, You have pleaded my soul's cause; You have redeemed my life." - Lamentations 3:58
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 8:27:57 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 6323
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Mcfatty I think to explainit I have to go back to Ps103's post. She said:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
I think it depends entirely on how you define "sin."
If you define sin as deliberately doing something you know is wrong in God's eyes, then yeah, you can stop sinning.
If you define sin as "missing the mark" of perfection, then no, you cannot. You can strive to be more perfect, but you never will achieve it.
The first part says deliberty doing something you know is wrong in God's eyes. This you can stop doing.
The second part is missing the mark of perfection. To me that is "sinless perfection." and Ps103 is right we will never achieve that. Well not here on earth.
_____________________________
At one time Jesus was my co-pilot. Things are much better now that He and I have changed seats.
<Me & my happyplate at Lobster Hut
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 8:31:46 PM
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tdd1975
Posts: 751
Joined: 2/12/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
But if I understand the OP correctly this thread is not about sinless perfection. I believe we will all reach sinless perfection but not in this lifetime. This thread is about the possibility of not sinning. I believe it is entirely possible. Improbable as it may be it is still possible. We would not have been told to do so if it were not possible. As I said before God knows our flesh is weak and if we stumble, and we will, God is there to forgive us. But the fact we may all stumble does not negate the possibility of not sinning.
Sorry Qtman, I thought I was plain. Without rehashing everything I said I still believe that the heart of the debate is how we define sin. If we define sin as avoiding the biggies like adultery, murder, stealing etc. then yes it is possible. But if we define sin as previously stated "missing the mark" and that mark being just like Jesus then no I don't think it is possible in this life.
I read Him every day brother and I know I am not there. I am striving but I am not there yet.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 8:32:04 PM
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laura...
Posts: 3280
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From: NE Ohio
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quote:
I believe we will all reach sinless perfection but not in this lifetime.
I believe we have reached sinless perfection the moment we accept Jesus Christ's sacrifice for our sin. When we were clothed in Christ, His sinless perfection became ours. Now we are challenged with walking in that sinless perfection. Do we still commit sin? Yes. Can we sin less and less? Yes. Could we potentially reach a point this side of heaven where we no longer sin? Yes. Have I reached that point? No.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 8:37:08 PM
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Catholicandloveit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Intrepidus
To those who honestly think they are sinless, I would ask: Do you love God, every conscious moment of your existence, with all your heart, soul, mind and strength? At the same time, do you love your neighbor as yourself? Moreover, do you do these perfectly? For that is the standard of Christian perfection set forth in Scripture. That is the Bible's definition of sinlessness. To sin is to miss this mark Note well that you cannot slip even once, else you disqualify yourself from perfection.
Let me start by saying I know I have a ways to go to get to sinlessness I don't know if I will make it there in this life but I think its possible.
The issue I take with your post is the once you mess up its all over and you can never be perfect, we can slip and we can try again the opportunity to "make it" in this life is open to us until this life is over. And Thank God and Amen otherwise I am in some trouble! 
Mary
_____________________________
Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 8:42:45 PM
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Qtman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tdd1975
quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
But if I understand the OP correctly this thread is not about sinless perfection. I believe we will all reach sinless perfection but not in this lifetime. This thread is about the possibility of not sinning. I believe it is entirely possible. Improbable as it may be it is still possible. We would not have been told to do so if it were not possible. As I said before God knows our flesh is weak and if we stumble, and we will, God is there to forgive us. But the fact we may all stumble does not negate the possibility of not sinning.
Sorry Qtman, I thought I was plain. Without rehashing everything I said I still believe that the heart of the debate is how we define sin. If we define sin as avoiding the biggies like adultery, murder, stealing etc. then yes it is possible. But if we define sin as previously stated "missing the mark" and that mark being just like Jesus then no I don't think it is possible in this life.
I read Him every day brother and I know I am not there. I am striving but I am not there yet.
THat is what Ps103 siad and in the post above I quoted her. I believe reaching the point of not missing the mark is "sinless perfection" and we will reach that when we put on our new bodies in the Kingdom. So in short I agree with what you posted that I quoted in this post. What I was saying is IMO there is a difference in not sinning and sinless perfection and this thread is about the possibility of not sinning.
BTW Brother I have not reached the state of sinless perfection not have I managed to go for a very long period without messing up and doing something wrong. As someone posted in the other thread I am not sinning right now so at this moment I am sinless. Not that I have not sinned in the past or that I may sin in the future. At the moment I am not sinning. But I am far from perfect.
< Message edited by Qtman -- 10/23/2009 8:49:49 PM >
_____________________________
At one time Jesus was my co-pilot. Things are much better now that He and I have changed seats.
<Me & my happyplate at Lobster Hut
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 8:45:05 PM
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Doghouse
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Yes, it to possible to stop sinning and to live without sin. The 100% human Jesus did it, just to prove it to us.
The bar is set high by Him, our example. It is up to us to strive always to reach for it.
If it were not possible to stop sinning, then a fair amount of Biblical instruction is mocking our humanity - coaxing us and plying us us to do something and be something that God full well knows we can't be.
That's not how my God rolls.....
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The dog regularly reads Atlantic Monthly
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 8:46:00 PM
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laura...
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quote:
I believe reaching the point of not missing the mark is "sinless perfection" and we will reach that when we put on our new bodies in the Kingdom.
We reached that mark the moment Jesus imputed his righteousness to us.
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This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 8:54:11 PM
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tdd1975
Posts: 751
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
Mcfatty I think to explainit I have to go back to Ps103's post. She said:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
I think it depends entirely on how you define "sin."
If you define sin as deliberately doing something you know is wrong in God's eyes, then yeah, you can stop sinning.
If you define sin as "missing the mark" of perfection, then no, you cannot. You can strive to be more perfect, but you never will achieve it.
The first part says deliberty doing something you know is wrong in God's eyes. This you can stop doing.
The second part is missing the mark of perfection. To me that is "sinless perfection." and Ps103 is right we will never achieve that. Well not here on earth.
I agree with you here Qtman. We must have posted at the same time because I didn't see this one.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 10:04:58 PM
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Intrepidus
Posts: 104
Joined: 10/7/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: laura...
quote:
I believe reaching the point of not missing the mark is "sinless perfection" and we will reach that when we put on our new bodies in the Kingdom.
We reached that mark the moment Jesus imputed his righteousness to us.
Laura,
What you're talking about is our positional righteousness "in Christ." Having placed our faith in him, our sin is taken away and his perfect righteousness is imputed to us. That occurs at our justification. What this thread is addressing is what happens afterward. It's about practical righteousness (i.e., how we live in light of our justification). I maintain that we will never be sinless practically in this life. But you are right. In Christ, we are completely sinless, just as he is sinless.
In Him,
-Intrepidus
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Gotta put food on the table....and I certainly wouldn't mind shooting the 12-point buck that's been roaming the area recently. 
