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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Part 2)
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Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Part 2)
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Total Votes : 56
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(last vote on : 11/23/2009 3:42:06 PM)
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/23/2009 6:35:20 PM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 1764
Joined: 2/4/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
I'm just trying to get his position on this subject.
Strange... We went over this on the first thread... I never said it's not possible.. I just asked for examples... Remember? And of course this is my position still...Possibility alone is not evidence that something has or will take place... It can, but from what I have witnessed of the practical application of this doctrine I am not convinced any man has what it takes... And using Christ as an example it ludicrous... And don't try and say I finally answered, I have been saying all of this from the start...
I can't say that you've finally answered, because you HAVEN'T. So did you vote "yes" on the poll? Do you believe it is possible, SIH? Is it within your capability to answer concretely? And if you've done so in the past, forgive me for overlooking your position. But so far you've been straddling the fence. So, since you don't believe it's not possible, you must either believe that it IS possible, or you simply aren't sure. So, is it "yes" or "maybe"?
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< Don't make fun of my deer. It's spethal!
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/23/2009 6:37:06 PM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 1764
Joined: 2/4/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SoulCrushed
cposey, every1, theo, r.c....
Where does sin come from?
If it's just the result of my bad decision, where was that decision making first processed?
Where does grace sufficient for our weakness come from, SC? Where does the ability to escape every temptation some from? Are you not able to escape every sin? Where does this inability come from?
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< Don't make fun of my deer. It's spethal!
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/23/2009 7:04:00 PM
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Theo-Minor
Posts: 290
Joined: 2/9/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Theo-Minor
evry1needsgod, in case you haven't noticed, SovereignIsHe doesn't actually answer anything. Why are you killing yourself with all these long posts. It is wasted time and energy on someone who is going to deflect whatever you say with the comment that you are simply trying to deflect. I appreciate the desire to press on, but you really are sowing seeds in bad ground in this case (speaking directly concerning this doctrine that is, and not as a reflection of SIH's general character).
Btw.. If you are going to take this route don't try to play nice...
I'm not actually trying to play anything anymore. I took some time for self reflection, and I went back over some of my posts. I agree that some were taken harsh for good reason. I am a very cut and dry, get right to the point kind of person. I don't beat around the bush. So when I disagree, my responses are a reflection of my direct personality.
However, I can also say that they are not intended in the way that they are being taken. Like most here, I can say with all honesty that I've surely crossed the line on occasion and either upset or angered someone. I get frustrated in these conversations the same as the next guy. BUT, I don't deliberately set out to get anyone's back up. I always mean well, even when it's taken badly.
I don't have a habit of putting words in people's mouths, calling them names, suggesting they are heretics, and so on. I get more cutting in what I say, whereas others get passive aggressive or sarcastic.
In any case, I'm done with this stuff. I know what the truth is. I acknowledge the plain statements of scripture. I believe that those who say they can't stop sinning are lying to themselves, and I also believe they know they are doing so. But in the end, I have to answer for myself, not any of you. I don't have to stand before God in the end and try to explain that I sinned because of my flesh, because I know that God will call me a liar if I make such an excuse. He would quote the scriptures to me, and there would be no ignoring them then.
So carry on grasshopper. You have a cause to champion, and I'm not it.
< Message edited by Theo-Minor -- 11/23/2009 7:11:50 PM >
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Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 11/23/2009 8:23:01 PM
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quixote
Posts: 376
Joined: 12/22/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
For the record, quixote, and to distance myself on this point from some in the "sinless crowd", I do NOT believe nor do I find any Scriptural support, that Jesus ever had a sinful nature. Just as Adam and Eve had no sinful nature yet were free to sin, so was Jesus sinless at Incarnation yet free to sin. I think the parallels between Adam and Jesus, especially in Romans 5 and 1 Cor 15 make this concept quite clear.
For the record, drmark, though I disagree, I recognize yours above as a position within the pale of Christian orthodoxy. That goes for this larger debate as well; while I disagree with you and E1 on this and think it has some uncomfortable implications doctrinally, I consider y'all's an orthodox Christian position that I would not divide fellowship over, particularly as espoused in detail by Wesley, and in full view of the great essential truths of the Christian faith we uphold together. In addition, I consider your doctrine of great pragmatic value, exhorting Christians to holiness, something clearly lacking in the Church today--given of course that it does not result in pride, which in your case and E1's case, it certainly does not appear to from this public sample and my interaction with both of you personally. At the end of the day, we should be bound together by the great truths we do share, and our desire to see the Church and its members live better Christian lives in gratitude for the gift of Christ.
To that end, let me offer these notes of Wesley that resemble our discussion; they should foster some better ground for this thread:
Our Fourth Conference began on Tuesday, June the 16th, 1747. As several persons were present, who did not believe the doctrine of perfection, we agreed to examine it from the foundation.
In order to this, it was asked,
"How much is allowed by our brethren who differ from `is with regard to entire sanctification?
"A. They grant, (1.) That every one must be entirely sanctified in the article of death. (2.) That till then a believer daily grows in grace, comes nearer and nearer to perfection. (3.) That we ought to be continually pressing after it, and to exhort all others so to do.
"Q. What do we allow them?
"A. We grant, (1.) That many of those who have died in the faith, yea, the greater part of those we have known, were not perfected in love till a little before their death. (2.) That the term sanctified is continually applied by St. Paul to all that were justified. (3.) That by this term alone, he rarely, if ever, means `saved from all sin.' (4.) That, consequently, it is not proper to use it in that sense, without adding the word wholly, entirely, or the like. (5.) That the inspired writers almost continually speak of or to those who were justified, but very rarely of or to those who were wholly sanctified. [That is, unto those alone, exclusive of others; but they speak to them, jointly with others, almost continually.] (6.) That, consequently, it beloves us to speak almost continually of the state of justification; but more rarely, [More rarely, I allow; but yet in some places very frequently, strongly, and explicitly.] `at least in full and explicit terms, concerning entire sanctification.'
"Q. What then is the point where we divide?
"A. It is this: Should we expect to be saved from all sin~ before the article of death?
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The Areopagus
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