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[Poll]
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Who's In Charge Down There?
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| Satan directly tortures all condemned souls |
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| The demons are in charge of torturing souls |
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| Satan and the demons rule hell, but they are not involved |
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| God directly tortures all condemned souls |
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| God's angels are in charge of torturing souls |
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| God rules hell, but He is not involved in the torture |
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| Hell operates automatically - nobody is directly involved |
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| Other - Describe below |
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Total Votes : 17
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(last vote on : 11/17/2009 10:12:32 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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Who's In Charge Down There? - 11/2/2009 2:25:42 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 2346
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This is something that's been on my mind lately, and I wanted to see what people thought.
Who is in charge in hell? We're all familiar with the cartoon depictions of Satan and various demons torturing folks down in hell. Is that how things will be, or will things play out differently?
Make your vote, post your thoughts, and try and keep the flames in the afterlife.
*NOTE*
This is not a discussion over the nature of what hell will be like, per say. This is also not a discussion of eternal/temporal punishment, purgatory, etc.
_____________________________
"To the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sun is really a sun; to the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sea is really a sea."
-G. K. Chesterton
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RE: Who's In Charge Down There? - 11/2/2009 6:48:54 PM
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Gloryandgrace
Posts: 839
Joined: 1/15/2006
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Hell is the invention of God not the devil. Therefore God rules Hell because Hell is a created place to punish wicked Spirits.
Hell as it operates now is different from what will be when it is cast into the Lake of Fire.
There are wicked Spirits Chained in hell, Satan is not bound in Hell, and since Hell is a place of punishment, Satan would seek to escape it. No rebellious Spirit would remain where God placed him even it were a paradise, or a heaven. Satan is free to roam the earth. Satan is not ruling hell.
Demonic spirits are not ruling hell, they are the subjects of its punishment, at least some portion of them. Many are free to roam the earth.
Human beings are the subjects of divine punishments, God is punishing them because it is God's hell. Wicked Spirits and wicked men are the citizens of this place but are never said to have authority to rule anything. Rule requires some kind of God-ordained order. Hell is the absence of rational order. God is able to rule in Chaos, while created beings cannot rule without divine order in some form. For a Demonic Spirit to continue to torment or harm the human being (the image of God) there would be some kind of pleasure in the defacing of God even while enduring punishment. Im not sure that God will permit this sin to remain. But that is again speculative.
As to torment, the place itself has been devised in such a way as to punish the wicked for sin. God is responsible for such a creation and for the overall purpose to which Hell exerts punishment upon its inhabitants. If there be demonic torment of human beings, it would be to whatever extent God permitted such activity to exist. No direct revelation of Demonic torturing of humanity is described in scripture, but that doesnt mean it doesnt occur. Its is also speculative and yet entirely possible that humanity while being tormented by demonic spirits do in some way afflict the demons as well, creating a torment in return...but this is entirely speculative.....
There have been books written on the subject, one being 23 minutes in Hell..(forgot the author)..where he was subjected to a very short time of torment by demons and by the effects of hell itself.
So in order to unravel my answer. God rules, Satan remains free at this time, Demons are punished, they exert no actual rule, humans are punished they are not under demonic rule, but may be afflicted in some way, The place and its purpose are God's ordained temporal method of punishment before the great white throne judgment where final punishment will be executed and where Hell and death itself will be cast into the Lake of Fire.
John
_____________________________
Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles.....
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RE: Who's In Charge Down There? - 11/2/2009 6:49:58 PM
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Doghouse
Posts: 1172
Joined: 8/25/2007
From: The Buckle of the Bible Belt
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I believe that hell is the eternal absence of God. To promote how truly awful this absence must be, there have been all sorts of imagery conjured up to attempt to describe just how awful it most be, but in my imagination, none of them aptly describe what it most really be like.
I suppose on the poll I could have just said "hell runs itself", because it is simply a place where our omnipresent God has chosen not to be, by His design and choice. And this is where the souls of those who could not bring themselves to recognize Him, even while living in the midst of all the He created, with the gifts and faculties that He gave to them to enjoy His creation, reside.
Forever...without...
Its got to be like a hunger that can't be abated, a thirst that can't be quenched, an ache that cannot be comforted...on and on...forever. Total, desolate emptiness...forever.
I don't think fire does it justice....
_____________________________
The dog regularly reads Atlantic Monthly
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RE: Who's In Charge Down There? - 11/2/2009 7:14:02 PM
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tsnody2001
Posts: 324
Joined: 4/29/2008
From: Terre Haute, IN
Status: offline
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Why don't we try using God's word, and what it has to say about hell, instead of conjuring up our own little imaginations of what hell may or may not be?
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Who's In Charge Down There? - 11/2/2009 7:22:06 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2525
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
Who is in charge in hell?
Politicians? Could be the source of the hot air, anyway.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Who's In Charge Down There? - 11/3/2009 12:12:56 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5731
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Gloryandgrace
Hell is the invention of God not the devil. Therefore God rules Hell because Hell is a created place to punish wicked Spirits.
Hell as it operates now is different from what will be when it is cast into the Lake of Fire.
There are wicked Spirits Chained in hell, Satan is not bound in Hell, and since Hell is a place of punishment, Satan would seek to escape it. No rebellious Spirit would remain where God placed him even it were a paradise, or a heaven. Satan is free to roam the earth. Satan is not ruling hell.
Demonic spirits are not ruling hell, they are the subjects of its punishment, at least some portion of them. Many are free to roam the earth.
Human beings are the subjects of divine punishments, God is punishing them because it is God's hell. Wicked Spirits and wicked men are the citizens of this place but are never said to have authority to rule anything. Rule requires some kind of God-ordained order. Hell is the absence of rational order. God is able to rule in Chaos, while created beings cannot rule without divine order in some form. For a Demonic Spirit to continue to torment or harm the human being (the image of God) there would be some kind of pleasure in the defacing of God even while enduring punishment. Im not sure that God will permit this sin to remain. But that is again speculative.
As to torment, the place itself has been devised in such a way as to punish the wicked for sin. God is responsible for such a creation and for the overall purpose to which Hell exerts punishment upon its inhabitants. If there be demonic torment of human beings, it would be to whatever extent God permitted such activity to exist. No direct revelation of Demonic torturing of humanity is described in scripture, but that doesnt mean it doesnt occur. Its is also speculative and yet entirely possible that humanity while being tormented by demonic spirits do in some way afflict the demons as well, creating a torment in return...but this is entirely speculative.....
There have been books written on the subject, one being 23 minutes in Hell..(forgot the author)..where he was subjected to a very short time of torment by demons and by the effects of hell itself.
So in order to unravel my answer. God rules, Satan remains free at this time, Demons are punished, they exert no actual rule, humans are punished they are not under demonic rule, but may be afflicted in some way, The place and its purpose are God's ordained temporal method of punishment before the great white throne judgment where final punishment will be executed and where Hell and death itself will be cast into the Lake of Fire.
John
Can't say I disagree with this.
Very well thought out.
The Bible does tell us hell is made for Satan and his followers.
It was never meant to contain one human being. But, when a
human rejects God, he follows Satan. So humans wind up in hell
and ultimately in the Lake of Fire.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Who's In Charge Down There? - 11/5/2009 2:25:35 PM
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Narcil
Posts: 50
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: San Diego, CA
Status: offline
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A lot of talk so far with zero scriptural support (one or two vague references to Rev 19 and 20).
There is a very good reason for the lack of scripture thus far appearing on this thread: The Bible has very little to say about Hell (or the Lake of Fire, take your pick).
The Old Testament doesn't say a word about the subject (despite the King James Version mistranslating "Sheol [transliterated]" as "Hell" all over the place). Jesus might mention it 11 times (not counting repeated quotes in each of the gospels), but what He's actually talking about is debatable. The other New Testament writers make what appears to be about 11 references to Hell, but those too are somewhat debatable and all the references lack any kind of specific detail.
In short, the Bible tells us almost nothing about Hell, save that a place exists where those who refuse to make Jesus their Lord will go after death which is extremely unpleasant.
_____________________________
"I have held many things in my hands, and I have lost them all. But whatever I have placed in God's hands, that I still possess." - Martin Luther
My blog: Here
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RE: Who's In Charge Down There? - 11/5/2009 7:52:11 PM
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Gloryandgrace
Posts: 839
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Narcil
A lot of talk so far with zero scriptural support (one or two vague references to Rev 19 and 20).
There is a very good reason for the lack of scripture thus far appearing on this thread: The Bible has very little to say about Hell (or the Lake of Fire, take your pick).
The Old Testament doesn't say a word about the subject (despite the King James Version mistranslating "Sheol [transliterated]" as "Hell" all over the place). Jesus might mention it 11 times (not counting repeated quotes in each of the gospels), but what He's actually talking about is debatable. The other New Testament writers make what appears to be about 11 references to Hell, but those too are somewhat debatable and all the references lack any kind of specific detail.
In short, the Bible tells us almost nothing about Hell, save that a place exists where those who refuse to make Jesus their Lord will go after death which is extremely unpleasant.
Narcil: I say read your bible more, and more will be recognizable to you.
God rules...Psalm 103:19
The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all
Satan remains free at this time 1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Demons are punished Jude 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
The place and its purpose are God's ordained temporal method of punishment before the great white throne judgment where final punishment will be executed and where Hell and death itself will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Rev 20:11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire
What is unsupportable is a demonic rule in Hell. What is supportable is God rules over all his creation. Hell being part of that creation.
There is plenty said in the bible about hell and what is down there, plenty for us to know and to take heed. Whats debateable is your belief in it, not the information we have about it. Usually if a person has a problem with believing hell, the first thing they do is complain about the translation of scripture...and usually its to fit their own opinions.
John
_____________________________
Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles.....
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RE: Who's In Charge Down There? - 11/11/2009 1:38:58 PM
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Ps103
Posts: 12136
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
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I am voting "other."
If hell is the absence of God, then He is not involved in its operation (for lack of a better word.)
Satan and his demons cannot rule it, since it was made for their punishment.
I guess it does run itself, but I am not sure.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Who's In Charge Down There? - 11/11/2009 1:58:06 PM
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tsnody2001
Posts: 324
Joined: 4/29/2008
From: Terre Haute, IN
Status: offline
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God is in charge EVERYWHERE, even in hell.
Hell is not a place where Satan and his angels get to torture and/or rule over the condemned people. It is a place of punishment and imprisonment for ALL who go there, even Satan and his angels (or rather, demons).
Hell will not be lacking the presence of God or His holy angels.
quote:
A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image
and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury,
which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur
in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever.
There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone
who receives the mark of his name."
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Who's In Charge Down There? - 11/11/2009 10:35:29 PM
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rawr.ben
Posts: 2719
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Hell is a place of God's wrath. God's wrath is far more fierce than God's absence.
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rawr.ben
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RE: Who's In Charge Down There? - 11/12/2009 1:01:11 AM
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tsnody2001
Posts: 324
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From: Terre Haute, IN
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One needs to be careful no to come to conclusions that are not found in Scripture. The reason there are over 3,000 Christian denominations is because people take what they think God's Word says and make doctrines out of it. Or they take some opinion of an esteemed pastor or teacher and assume they are teaching Scripture. It is best to just let God's Word say what God's Word says. That is why Paul quoted the saying, that we should not go beyond what is written.
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Who's In Charge Down There? - 11/12/2009 1:35:45 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 2565
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Doghouse
I believe that hell is the eternal absence of God. To promote how truly awful this absence must be, there have been all sorts of imagery conjured up to attempt to describe just how awful it most be, but in my imagination, none of them aptly describe what it most really be like.
I suppose on the poll I could have just said "hell runs itself", because it is simply a place where our omnipresent God has chosen not to be, by His design and choice. And this is where the souls of those who could not bring themselves to recognize Him, even while living in the midst of all the He created, with the gifts and faculties that He gave to them to enjoy His creation, reside.
Forever...without...
Its got to be like a hunger that can't be abated, a thirst that can't be quenched, an ache that cannot be comforted...on and on...forever. Total, desolate emptiness...forever.
I don't think fire does it justice....
I chose "Hell operates automatically - nobody is directly involved." It isn't exactly how I would word it, but Doghouse explained my position aptly.
God judges, banishes, and closes the door forever.
_____________________________
"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: Who's In Charge Down There? - 11/12/2009 4:41:02 AM
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singpeace
Posts: 81
Joined: 9/19/2009
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My opinion based on what I've read in scripture and own thoughts:
Simply being in a state where there is not a single whisper of God's presence is something none of us could imagine, but that is what hell is to me. . . a place where God is completely absent. Satan will be tortured as well.
_____________________________
Psalm 123:1 Unto You do I lift up my eyes, O You Who are enthroned in heaven.
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RE: Who's In Charge Down There? - 11/12/2009 1:59:11 PM
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tsnody2001
Posts: 324
Joined: 4/29/2008
From: Terre Haute, IN
Status: offline
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singpeace,
I mean this with no offense intended, but it doesn't matter what hell is "to you". Nor does it matter what hell is to anyone else. God did not give us free reign to determine what the truths in Scripture mean to us. The truths found in Scripture say what they say, and they mean what they mean. They are not determined by private interpretation or opinion. Hell is what God says it is.
quote:
My opinion based on what I've read in scripture and own thoughts:
Please, by all means, show us what you have read in Scripture that leads you to such conclusions.
I challenge every person that has posted on this thread in one way or another that "Hell is the absence of the presence of God" or that "Hell runs itself" to support their views with Scripture.
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Who's In Charge Down There? - 11/12/2009 2:19:58 PM
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tsnody2001
Posts: 324
Joined: 4/29/2008
From: Terre Haute, IN
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Doghouse
I believe that hell is the eternal absence of God. To promote how truly awful this absence must be, there have been all sorts of imagery conjured up to attempt to describe just how awful it most be, but in my imagination, none of them aptly describe what it most really be like.
I suppose on the poll I could have just said "hell runs itself", because it is simply a place where our omnipresent God has chosen not to be, by His design and choice. And this is where the souls of those who could not bring themselves to recognize Him, even while living in the midst of all the He created, with the gifts and faculties that He gave to them to enjoy His creation, reside.
Forever...without...
Its got to be like a hunger that can't be abated, a thirst that can't be quenched, an ache that cannot be comforted...on and on...forever. Total, desolate emptiness...forever.
I don't think fire does it justice....
Please. Can you support ANY of this with Scripture? Instead of having "all sorts of imagery conjured up to attempt to describe" hell, why don't we just let Scripture determine what hell is, and what it is like?
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Who's In Charge Down There? - 11/21/2009 12:49:12 PM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 4318
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tsnody2001
Please. Can you support ANY of this with Scripture? Instead of having "all sorts of imagery conjured up to attempt to describe" hell, why don't we just let Scripture determine what hell is, and what it is like?
You have chastened many posts...yet have posted nothing.
Give us your Biblical view please...
_____________________________
A wicked and deceitful heart cannot discern itself.
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). God is not in charge because He is absent completely and because this is His choice He is fully charge. This is also a choice we make to reject God so we too are in charge and yet not in charge because we will have no power to change our choice. Will those in hell be tortured by anything more then their choice to reject God I don't think so, really what could be worse? 
