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RE: Red Ink Hurts Self Esteem? - 11/4/2009 1:01:27 PM
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SurpassingPeace
Posts: 815
Joined: 11/21/2007
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quote:
It's not the same thing! This is school! They are there to learn. That is the primary purpose and with that comes failures and mistakes, hopefully teaching them by correction.
That may be your primary purpose but many kids desperately want to fit in and don't want to be excluded.
I think we will just have to agree to disagree. I don't see either side changing their mind and that is okay. You educate your child as you see fit and I will do the same. That is the groovy thing about this country.
Have a peaceful day.
_____________________________
Karen
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RE: Red Ink Hurts Self Esteem? - 11/4/2009 10:35:09 PM
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buckifn
Posts: 1742
Joined: 5/23/2006
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The days of "school is a place where children go primarily to learn" is long gone..and has been for several decades.
Many schools today are not about learning at all...they are about socialization, bullying, indoctrinating, and political agendas.
VERY LITTLE time is actually spent on helping kids learn....our country's national test scores on a secondary grade level could prob. be achieved by a 3rd grader in Japan.
Wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy back in the 70's at least 45% of my Freshman Lit class needed tutoring in remedial reading skills....and I would be willing to say things have gotten much worse since then....a couple of years ago I took an 18 yr. old foster child to obtain his driving permit and even though he was a Senior in HS he could not sign his name in cursive.
I don't think it would have mattered if his grade was in red or blue ink.
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RE: Red Ink Hurts Self Esteem? - 11/5/2009 1:43:43 AM
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KnowJesus
Posts: 206
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SurpassingPeace
Okay, for those of you who think this is a great idea, maybe because life is hard, what would you say to your child when they come home in tears because they are teased for being stupid? You know they are trying their best. You would just tell them, "Buck up kid, life's rough. Get over it." I am just curious.
I'm sorry I came off a little sarcastic in my pevious post about the F thingy. I don't recall ever being teased by another student for being stupid when I got an F on my paper. I did get F's and D's, too. My biggest hurt was not what the kids thought, but how my parents reacted to my grades. My own father was the one who said "You are stupid!"  After that my thoughts were, why try to do better. You can't because dad said you are stupid (the enemy had me believing I was doomed). But, thank God the good things that came from this experience, is, I learned to never say such a thing to our children when a failing grade appeared. Plus, I have forgiven my father for his ignorance in telling me such a hurtful thing. It took along time for me to get over that label. Sorry I went off topic a bit.
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RE: Red Ink Hurts Self Esteem? - 11/5/2009 2:08:06 AM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2625
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: out of the everywhere into here
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quote:
VERY LITTLE time is actually spent on helping kids learn....our country's national test scores on a secondary grade level could prob. be achieved by a 3rd grader in Japan.
That's because Japan weeds out the less intelligent/dilligent kids early on (as do many of the countries that have "higher" test scores. Besides, I remember one time in high school taking one of those national test..I scored pretty high on most of it...but part of the day I was so bored I just started randomly filling in circles. Those areas I scored low in (well, DUH) I got the idea from another girl. If 2 of us did it, I would imagine many more did.
_____________________________
Wizard's rule #1 .People can be stupid and willfully deceived (that's from the book, not the show)..slightly edited for CW
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RE: Red Ink Hurts Self Esteem? - 11/5/2009 9:41:39 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1742
Joined: 5/23/2006
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quote:
but part of the day I was so bored I just started randomly filling in circles.
LOL I did that on an IQ test once and still scored 160.
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RE: Red Ink Hurts Self Esteem? - 11/21/2009 9:24:08 AM
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LovebirdsFlying
Posts: 90
Joined: 2/25/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
quote:
ORIGINAL: SurpassingPeace
I see the ink as differently. Let's use the chubby thing. Should we force them on diets or withhold sweets, no but a teacher should not stand up at lunch and annouce to the room, "Hey look everyone. Sara is eating a cupcake and she is fat! " That is how I see the ink thing. Do you see what I am saying.
Show me a teacher who does that and I'll show you a teacher out of a job so fast that whiplash won't even begin to describe her experience.
I wish that were true. I was a good student, as far as grades are concerned, but I still got held up to public ridicule. One of the most embarrassing episodes I can think of came in a high school geometry class. The teacher offered, as an extra credit on a test, additional points for coming close to guessing the score on an upcoming local football game. I know *nothing* about football, and just wrote in random numbers. When the teacher collected my paper and read my guesses, he outright snickered and said to the class, "Hey guys? Check this out!" And read my numbers off. Several boys guffawed, and one asked, "Who *wrote* that?" Whereupon the teacher pointed to me, then said to me, "You obviously don't know anything about football."
Maybe a teacher nowadays who did something like that would be opening up the school for a lawsuit, but in my day, it was like "oh well."
Nor did my being a good student prevent peer rejection. Red ink or not, I was still called stupid and retarded. Any mistakes I did make were especially gloated over. "See, I guess you're not so smart after all." At best, my intellect was dismissed. "Well, you may be book smart, but you're real-world stupid."
So it's hard for me to sympathize with "self esteem problems" caused by too much red ink on the papers. I got almost none, and would have traded places with them any day.
Hmmm. Something just occurred to me. Maybe I really am "real-world stupid," as I was told. It never entered my mind to write down the wrong answers, so the kids would stop hating me for good grades. I probably should have done that.
_____________________________
The one who KNOWS me best, LOVES me most
------Bill & Gloria Gaither
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RE: Red Ink Hurts Self Esteem? - 11/21/2009 10:50:53 PM
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ladioffaith
Posts: 3172
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: NE Ohio (L.A. . . Lower Akron)
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In a business where we proof each other's stuff all the time ... my boss, who is older than me, has huge issues with red ink. Probably because of somebody with a nasty attitude. However, I prefer red because then I can see what I wrote. I also use it in my direct sales business. I find customers don't keep red pens.
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~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The LORD your God is with you, he is mighty to save.
He will take great delight in you, he will quiet you with
his love, he will rejoice over you with singing." Zeph. 3:17
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
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RE: Red Ink Hurts Self Esteem? - 11/22/2009 10:20:40 AM
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NotDoneYet
Posts: 209
Joined: 12/11/2007
From: Virginia
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I am in a business where I use red to check drawings. I have found that the younger folks really have issues with the red ink. They also have issues when I mark up the drawings, and think I am being "unfair". Well, I am checking drawings that will be used to build ships...it has to be 100% right 100% of the time.
Since the "touchy feely" at school, they openly resent the red ink, and do not understand that it is customary in my line of work to use certain colors for certain reasons...yellow means correct, red means incorrect, blue means a side note (please read, but don't implement), etc.
This new sensitivity is all fine and good, right up until these kids hit the real world where the truth is, nobody cares about their feelings, their self-esteem...it's all about productivity, doing a thorough, correct job.
_____________________________
Remember, normal is just a setting on the dryer!
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RE: Red Ink Hurts Self Esteem? - 11/22/2009 11:00:00 AM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 665
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
Status: online
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quote:
This new sensitivity is all fine and good, right up until these kids hit the real world where the truth is, nobody cares about their feelings, their self-esteem...it's all about productivity, doing a thorough, correct job.
Thank you NDY, thank you.
Next thing you know it's gonna be green ink or yellow ink or black ink no one likes.
_____________________________
It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Red Ink Hurts Self Esteem? - 11/22/2009 11:08:23 AM
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heremainsfaithful
Posts: 184
Joined: 10/14/2009
From: Alabama
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Notdone, you make a good point. My H teaches at a university, and his students don't seem to be able to do anything by themselves, they whine "that's not fair" at the drop of a hat, and the loudly and disrespectfully argue with professors. I would never have done that when I was in college.
This problem stems in part because we K-12 teachers (especially us elementary) have bought into the hippie psychobabble to the point of the ridiculous. Now, if a student misbehaves we are supposed to find a way to correct them so that no one else can see. We can't write names on the board because it will damage their self-esteem. We can't separate them from the ret of the class because it is ostracizing. We can't make them write sentences because it will make them hate writing. We can't have in-school suspension because they will miss instruction. So how exactly do you teach a class of 28 when 3 are bouncing off the walls, 4 are on IEP's, 2 are on meds, and 3 are gifted? And now we worry about what color pens we use? hen exactly do our kids learn that actions have consequences, people make mistakes, and not everybody's drawing wins the art contest? What do they first time they get passed over for a promotion, say it's not fair and ask Daddy to call the superintendent?
_____________________________
Jer. 29:11, II Tim. 2:13, Jude 24, 25
https://www2.xlibris.com/bookstore/bookdisplay.aspx?bookid=58896
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RE: Red Ink Hurts Self Esteem? - 11/22/2009 2:50:45 PM
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DeliveredDarling
Posts: 1781
Joined: 8/30/2007
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quote:
Notdone, you make a good point. My H teaches at a university, and his students don't seem to be able to do anything by themselves, they whine "that's not fair" at the drop of a hat, and the loudly and disrespectfully argue with professors. I would never have done that when I was in college.
This problem stems in part because we K-12 teachers (especially us elementary) have bought into the hippie psychobabble to the point of the ridiculous. Now, if a student misbehaves we are supposed to find a way to correct them so that no one else can see. We can't write names on the board because it will damage their self-esteem. We can't separate them from the ret of the class because it is ostracizing. We can't make them write sentences because it will make them hate writing. We can't have in-school suspension because they will miss instruction. So how exactly do you teach a class of 28 when 3 are bouncing off the walls, 4 are on IEP's, 2 are on meds, and 3 are gifted? And now we worry about what color pens we use? hen exactly do our kids learn that actions have consequences, people make mistakes, and not everybody's drawing wins the art contest? What do they first time they get passed over for a promotion, say it's not fair and ask Daddy to call the superintendent?
And this is what we are teaching our future generation of leaders! We have forgone any sense of accountability because it might be "damaging".....
For goodness sake, let's not correct our children when they reach for the hot stove because it just might damage their self esteem, instead, we should just let them burn their hands??????
Again, we are raising a bunch of kids with no sense of accountability or responsibility because we would rather them have a "good sense of self" while children and let them fail miserably when they reach adulthood.
How very very sad for them and for us when they begin running this country.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Red Ink Hurts Self Esteem? - 11/22/2009 6:31:33 PM
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NotDoneYet
Posts: 209
Joined: 12/11/2007
From: Virginia
Status: offline
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I think I'll continue to use my red ink. If they can't handle it, it's not my problem. At least I'm nice...I remember in the days of being a young designer when my senior wouldn't bother marking up the print, he'd just rip it to shreds in front of me and say 'try again'...
But yeah, now you have to be all diplomatic about things...
_____________________________
Remember, normal is just a setting on the dryer!
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RE: Red Ink Hurts Self Esteem? - 11/22/2009 7:48:29 PM
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garsyt
Posts: 1738
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: the bottom of the laundry basket
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I don't have a problem with the use of red ink to correct my kid's school work. I would have a problem with a situation like this:
quote:
I wish that were true. I was a good student, as far as grades are concerned, but I still got held up to public ridicule. One of the most embarrassing episodes I can think of came in a high school geometry class. The teacher offered, as an extra credit on a test, additional points for coming close to guessing the score on an upcoming local football game. I know *nothing* about football, and just wrote in random numbers. When the teacher collected my paper and read my guesses, he outright snickered and said to the class, "Hey guys? Check this out!" And read my numbers off. Several boys guffawed, and one asked, "Who *wrote* that?" Whereupon the teacher pointed to me, then said to me, "You obviously don't know anything about football."
Maybe a teacher nowadays who did something like that would be opening up the school for a lawsuit, but in my day, it was like "oh well."
Nor did my being a good student prevent peer rejection. Red ink or not, I was still called stupid and retarded. Any mistakes I did make were especially gloated over. "See, I guess you're not so smart after all." At best, my intellect was dismissed. "Well, you may be book smart, but you're real-world stupid."
So it's hard for me to sympathize with "self esteem problems" caused by too much red ink on the papers. I got almost none, and would have traded places with them any day.
If ANY teacher did this to one of my children I can assure you I would most certainly would be at the school having words with the administration AND that teacher. Now I'm normally really supportive of teachers, but belittling someone for any reason is wrong.
There are ways to correct a child's thinking and mistakes without public humiliation.
Blessings,
Garsy
_____________________________
My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Red Ink Hurts Self Esteem? - 11/22/2009 10:56:56 PM
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NotDoneYet
Posts: 209
Joined: 12/11/2007
From: Virginia
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garsyt,
I agree with you, but it's at the point where ANY red ink is considered "humiliation".
Now, as a 40-something senior designer at a large shipbuilding company, part of my job is to check drawings...and the baby-designers get SERIOUSLY upset at ANY red ink on their check prints...they will argue with me over and over, refuse to read the standards, and think that anything they put down should just about be framed and put on the walls...they will argue with me, with the other drawing reviewers, etc. I can't tell them exactly what I think of their lack of ability, and usually end up just correcting the stuff myself to avoid the conflict and the next "meeting" with my big boss explaining that I don't mean anything personally, but why don't these young ones know what they're doing??
I'm seriously fed up with the "self-esteem" thing...
_____________________________
Remember, normal is just a setting on the dryer!
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RE: Red Ink Hurts Self Esteem? - 11/23/2009 5:41:02 AM
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LovebirdsFlying
Posts: 90
Joined: 2/25/2008
Status: offline
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Thank you for the support, Garsyt.
Cry-babies over red ink.... bah. If they don't want their papers marked up, then they should put down the correct answers.
_____________________________
The one who KNOWS me best, LOVES me most
------Bill & Gloria Gaither
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