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What Is The Purpose Of The Church(Church Service) - 11/20/2009 9:05:12 AM
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Qtman
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I ask this this question because I want your input on what you think the Church Services are supposed to do.
I saw a Church sign recently that read "The Church Is A Hospital for Sinners, Not A Hotel For Saints.'
I just could not get my mind wrapped around that statement. I think it is backwards at the least.
I think a more accurate statement would be "The Church is a School for Saints not a Hotel for Sinners."
I believe one of the functions of the Church Service is to train the Christians in the word and prepare them to go out and witness to the loss.
Your thoughts?
_____________________________
At one time Jesus was my co-pilot. Things are much better now that He and I have changed seats.
<Me & my happyplate at Lobster Hut
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RE: What Is The Purpose Of The Church(Church Service) - 11/20/2009 9:15:15 AM
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zoebob
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I agree with you. Obviously, the saints still sin but in broad terms with saints being those saved (and their nuclear families) and sinners being the unregenerate.
Maybe a better would be to say it's for disciples with children of the saints being viewed as disciples learning their faith.
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L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
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RE: What Is The Purpose Of The Church(Church Service) - 11/20/2009 9:20:26 AM
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dance_with_god
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The Church has always struggled to find a healthy balance between evangelism and discipleship. I think we set ourselves up for trouble when we predetermine that it must be either/or when it ought to be a both/and.
The church should be a place where all feel welcomed and loved (regardless of their declarations/actions), a place where all can meet Jesus Christ and a place where all can grow in holiness/discipleship. So long as Jesus is preached in all his offices (Priest, Prophet, King) throughout the year this can be accomplished, although never perfectly this side of heaven.
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RE: What Is The Purpose Of The Church(Church Service) - 11/20/2009 9:30:09 AM
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stellaluna
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I agree with you, QT. I think the "struggle" has landed us exactly where we are now, open to everyone and training no one. (Some churches excepted, of course.)
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RE: What Is The Purpose Of The Church(Church Service) - 11/20/2009 10:34:06 AM
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TnTX
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Never mind.
< Message edited by TnTX -- 11/21/2009 11:46:29 AM >
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RE: What Is The Purpose Of The Church(Church Service) - 11/20/2009 2:25:14 PM
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stampinlady
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I agree with you, QT. I think the "struggle" has landed us exactly where we are now, open to everyone and training no one. (Some churches excepted, of course.)
Amen.
_____________________________
Deb
"In my opinion, we don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks."
Calvin and Hobbes
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RE: What Is The Purpose Of The Church(Church Service) - 11/20/2009 3:09:03 PM
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copybingo
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By clarifying your question with (church service) my take would be that the purpose is to worship and glorify God. To many "saints" or "sinners" enter the church service expecting to receive when the service itself should be all about giving glory, honor and praise...IMHO.
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RE: What Is The Purpose Of The Church(Church Service) - 11/20/2009 3:25:32 PM
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rcjames
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(Eph 4:12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
(Eph 4:13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
(Eph 4:14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
(Eph 4:15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: What Is The Purpose Of The Church(Church Service) - 11/20/2009 3:32:46 PM
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Grace71
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Can't it be both? By saying its a school for saints, where does that leave someone who is seeking God? Do we not allow them in till they are saved? I go to glorify God, learn to live my life the God wants, and learn to go out and witness. I think it depends on how you take it. None of us are perfected. The church is for more than training people to witness.
< Message edited by Grace71 -- 11/20/2009 3:40:29 PM >
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When did it become ok for christians to call people names, be condescending and sarcastic? I must have not gotten that memo.
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RE: What Is The Purpose Of The Church(Church Service) - 11/20/2009 3:51:27 PM
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Eutychus
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At some point the message changed from evangelism, sharing the Gospel and living godly lives, is what ALL believers do in their everyday lives and church (the saved) was the gathering of believers to worship, fellowship, and learn to it's the job of believers to invite the lost to church (the building) where the preachers and professional staff could share the gospel with them.
Church isn't a building but is primarily the gathering of believers. The lost should be welcome but, until they are saved, they cannot truly worship, fellowship, or understand the scriptures.
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Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: What Is The Purpose Of The Church(Church Service) - 11/20/2009 3:57:24 PM
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humbleinspirit
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Church is for the saints, not for evangelizing, although that is a part of it.
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RE: What Is The Purpose Of The Church(Church Service) - 11/20/2009 4:15:54 PM
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copybingo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
quote:
ORIGINAL: copybingo
By clarifying your question with (church service) my take would be that the purpose is to worship and glorify God. To many "saints" or "sinners" enter the church service expecting to receive when the service itself should be all about giving glory, honor and praise...IMHO.
I agree in part. However, we should be worshipping and Praising God every day of our lives. I think the focus of the church service is training. It seems most everyone so far agrees with me. Which makes me wonder. Am I getting better or Are the rest of you getting worse. 
It goes without saying we should be worshipping and praising God everyday. This is corporate worship, however, which is different and which we are directed to practice.
I hope I'm not getting worse. The Eph quotes in a previous post were interesting and I see some relevance to the church service. However, my belief is the church service itself is primarily a worship experience. There are other venues within the church walls and other events where all the other wonderful things can be and are accomplished...training up the saints, etc.
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RE: What Is The Purpose Of The Church(Church Service) - 11/20/2009 4:57:44 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
At some point the message changed from evangelism, sharing the Gospel and living godly lives, is what ALL believers do in their everyday lives and church (the saved) was the gathering of believers to worship, fellowship, and learn to it's the job of believers to invite the lost to church (the building) where the preachers and professional staff could share the gospel with them.
Church isn't a building but is primarily the gathering of believers. The lost should be welcome but, until they are saved, they cannot truly worship, fellowship, or understand the scriptures.
I agree mostly with what you say Euty, I only disagree that the job of believers is to invite the lost to Church; I feel it is the job of believers to live Godly lives and lead folks to Christ, then to the Church so they can learn to do the work of the ministry, and to do it all over again.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: What Is The Purpose Of The Church(Church Service) - 11/20/2009 7:42:37 PM
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Qtman
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RC I think there is some words that Euty accidentally left out of his post. I noticed a couple that seemed to be missing. I think the sentence you disagree with is part of the change he is talking about that took place down through the years.
_____________________________
At one time Jesus was my co-pilot. Things are much better now that He and I have changed seats.
<Me & my happyplate at Lobster Hut
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RE: What Is The Purpose Of The Church(Church Service) - 11/21/2009 1:58:38 AM
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Ps103
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I agree that a corporate worship service is for Christians.
I have nothing against someone inviting a curious friend who is not a believer to a service, but the service should not be aimed at those who are not Christians. In fact, the service should not be aimed at Christians, it should be aimed at God.
Whoever said the order of converting someone then bringing them to a service--I agree with that.
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Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: What Is The Purpose Of The Church(Church Service) - 11/21/2009 6:11:42 AM
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humbleinspirit
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I do know that some churches specifically have "seeker" or evangelism services, however those should not be confused with regular church services at all, and should be advertised as such too.
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RE: What Is The Purpose Of The Church(Church Service) - 11/21/2009 6:24:07 AM
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souljaboy
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If we are really, really honest with ourselves, most church services are a platform for the few to entertain the masses. The congregation is the cheer squad for a handful of people, many who are paid to do what they do, to strut the boards and entertain the crowd.
As a result, the Sunday service is more of a show than an expression of true fellowship amongst God's people. Most of the time it is "good morning, how are you" and at the end "goodbye, have a nice day".
This set up means that probably 80% of those who attend do nothing other than sing songs from one year to the next.
The NT church did not have Sunday morning services. They met daily from house to house for meals, fellowship, prayer and teaching (nothing about singing). In addition the Jewish believers continued to attend Jewish synagogue worship.
Just as a matter of interest, singing songs is not worship. It is kneeling or bowing before your conqueror and acknowledging that you are his slave and he can do whatever he wants with you. That is why when we are dead in Christ we have no rights because dead men don't need anything.
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RE: What Is The Purpose Of The Church(Church Service) - 11/21/2009 8:42:22 AM
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Qtman
Posts: 6319
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quote:
ORIGINAL: souljaboy
If we are really, really honest with ourselves, most church services are a platform for the few to entertain the masses. The congregation is the cheer squad for a handful of people, many who are paid to do what they do, to strut the boards and entertain the crowd.
As a result, the Sunday service is more of a show than an expression of true fellowship amongst God's people. Most of the time it is "good morning, how are you" and at the end "goodbye, have a nice day".
This set up means that probably 80% of those who attend do nothing other than sing songs from one year to the next.
The NT church did not have Sunday morning services. They met daily from house to house for meals, fellowship, prayer and teaching (nothing about singing). In addition the Jewish believers continued to attend Jewish synagogue worship.
Just as a matter of interest, singing songs is not worship. It is kneeling or bowing before your conqueror and acknowledging that you are his slave and he can do whatever he wants with you. That is why when we are dead in Christ we have no rights because dead men don't need anything.
Souljaboy this post is full of incomplete, and inaccurate information and mere speculation on your part and does not address the question in the OP. But since you brought it up I thought I would respond.
For one thing the NT Church was new and just getting started. They were under severe persecution from the government as well as the religious order of the day. They did not have synagogues in every town and had to meet where ever they could which as you said was mostly in houses.
Therefore there is not really a comparison there.
Second, if you will continue your study you will find that music and singing and even dancing was an integral part of the worship of God. So your statement that singing is not worship is false.
Now would you please address the OP and tell us what you think the Church Service is far.
_____________________________
At one time Jesus was my co-pilot. Things are much better now that He and I have changed seats.
<Me & my happyplate at Lobster Hut
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RE: What Is The Purpose Of The Church(Church Service) - 11/21/2009 9:25:38 AM
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CoeurdeLeon
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
I agree that a corporate worship service is for Christians.
I have nothing against someone inviting a curious friend who is not a believer to a service, but the service should not be aimed at those who are not Christians. In fact, the service should not be aimed at Christians, it should be aimed at God.
Whoever said the order of converting someone then bringing them to a service--I agree with that.
I agree with this in theory.
But, in practical application, I think there has to be some evangelism. It is entirely possible for someone to reach adulthood and NEVER hear the Gospel. My church is full of 20 and 30 somethings, young couples, many with small children. I think it takes no stretch of the imagination to understand that there are those among them who have had no contact, let alone relationships, with other believers or the Christians in their lives are failing them. But they somehow know that there is something missing in their lives (because, oftentimes, the Holy Spirit really can work even without our help  ). So they look where they have an inkling that they might find the missing thing...at a church service. If they don't hear of their need and the availability of salvation there and they have no relationships with believers, where will they hear it?
I went to church, as an adult, regularly for 3 years before I ever heard that I needed salvation and a personal relationship with Jesus. And I only heard it after 3 years because we had a fill-in pastor one week. Were the "Christians" around me failing me? Absolutely. But people can't be made to do what they're supposed to be doing. And the fact remains that if it hadn't been for one preacher whose purpose inside the church was to evangelize it's very possible I STILL wouldn't know I needed salvation.
I can't stress this enough. Many people live in social environments where they simply do not come into contact with believers who could evangelize them. Where will they hear it if there is no part of a church service for that purpose?
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Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion.
What have we to fear?
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RE: What Is The Purpose Of The Church(Church Service) - 11/21/2009 10:02:03 PM
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souljaboy
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quote:
They did not have synagogues in every town and had to meet where ever they could which as you said was mostly in houses.
Acts 2:46. Everyday they continued to meet together in the temple courts. Note, every day not “every day if there was a synagogue.”
quote:
Second, if you will continue your study you will find that music and singing and even dancing was an integral part of the worship of God. So your statement that singing is not worship is false.
Acts 2:42 They committed themselves to the teaching of the apostles, the life together, the common meal, and the prayers. (No mention of singing)
Acts 2: 46. The believers had a single purpose and went to the temple every day. They were joyful and humble as they ate at each other's homes and shared their food. (no mention of singing).
Greek: worship - shachah pronounced shaw-khaw. To prostate oneself; reflexively in homage to royalty or God; bow self down; crouch; fall down flat; humbly beseech; make obeisance; do reverence; make to stoop. (no mention of singing)
quote:
Now would you please address the OP and tell us what you think the Church Service is far. (I assume you mean for, not far.)
If we are really, really honest with ourselves, most church services are a platform for the few to entertain the masses. The congregation is the cheer squad for a handful of people, many who are paid to do what they do, to strut the boards and entertain the crowd.
As a result, the Sunday service is more of a show than an expression of true fellowship amongst God's people. Most of the time it is "good morning, how are you" and at the end "goodbye, have a nice day".
Paul Bordon, a specialist on church growth says that 20% of the congregation do 80% of the work.
I guess the scriptures and evidence are very much on my side brother.
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RE: What Is The Purpose Of The Church(Church Service) - 11/21/2009 10:22:36 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 428
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From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
I ask this this question because I want your input on what you think the Church Services are supposed to do.
I saw a Church sign recently that read "The Church Is A Hospital for Sinners, Not A Hotel For Saints.'
I just could not get my mind wrapped around that statement. I think it is backwards at the least.
I think a more accurate statement would be "The Church is a School for Saints not a Hotel for Sinners."
I believe one of the functions of the Church Service is to train the Christians in the word and prepare them to go out and witness to the loss.
Your thoughts?
The Church has it so backwards. When the Church gets together it is for the building up of the body. The teaching is supposed to be focused on building up of the saints so we know how to live with each other and live in the world. However it has become evangelism services. It is catered toward unbelievers and baby Christians. The teachings are milk.
quote:
I just could not get my mind wrapped around that statement. I think it is backwards at the least.
I think a more accurate statement would be "The Church is a School for Saints not a Hotel for Sinners."
I believe one of the functions of the Church Service is to train the Christians in the word and prepare them to go out and witness to the loss.
I couldn't agree with this more.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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