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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/20/2007 12:55:36 PM
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prophet_india
Posts: 437
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: India
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car2ner
quote:
I find it intriquing that the story of marriage-death-and remarriage that Jesus gave was to illustrate our relationship with rules and regulations.
The first husband was Rules and Regs. We found it impossible to please him. He died. Jesus then brought grace. The old husband, Rules, is dead so that we cannot go back to him even if we wanted to.
The first husband was legalism or law of Moses that permits the men of Israel to divorce their spouses on the ground of some uncleanness. Due to the hardness of their hearts, this legalism or law was given to them. But the law became dead in spirit when Jesus died on the Cross and grace was given us under the New Covenant so that we can forgive our sinning spouses.
quote:
So what are so many doing here? IMHO, they are trying to keep us tied to the old husband Rules and Regs while claiming to be brides of Christ.
1 Corinthians 10: 23-24. everything is lawful but not everything is beneficial.
We are not tied to the Old Testament law of Moses any more. But the people in this thread are tieing the remarried spouses to the Law i.e. their old husband of Rules and Regs while claiming to be the brides of Christ.
quote:
Of course, God/ Jesus wants us to use the wisdom and leading of the Holy Spirit to find the right mate and live with grace until death do you part. Or have the parents use wisdom and grace and the leading of the Holy Spirit to arrange such a union.
Yes, at the time of marriage, we have to use our wisdom and leading of the Holy Spirit to find the right mates. But if by mistake we choose the wrong mates, then we have to live with them for life by way of submission and love. We have to use our God given wisdom to win the unbelieving spouses for Christ by our long suffering, faith, prayers and conduct. The parents have to be very careful in selecting the right mates for their sons and daughters.
quote:
When Jesus was talking to his disciples and they balked at the idea that this is the attitude you should have, he was a bit tongue in cheek when he proclaimed, " then you shouldn't get married". Just like when we say, "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".
It is better not to marry because a spouse has to preserve the marriage bond at any cost. Jesus knew that it was very difficult to preserve it if one of the spouses is not a believer. A person has to count the cost before he enters into a marriage covenant.
_____________________________
Wait on the Lord patiently for restoration of marriage. If you believe Him for restoration, God will make a way for you in the wilderness.
http://mychurch.org/gloryofhiscross
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/20/2007 1:15:17 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 4637
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
How do you say that the polygamous relationship began in sin? Please quote the Scriptures here. Please do not run away from this point. I will come back and discuss.
In Mt. 19 Jesus refers back to Gen. 2 to show the original intention of marriage i.e. one man and one united, as one flesh, for their entire life; he then expounds on this text. Since this was stated in Genesis as being the standard for marriage from the beginning, then any marriages subsequent to this that do not follow this standard are wrong. Polygamous marriages are clearly outside of the standard for marriage that God established in Genesis, and therefore were wrong i.e. sinful.
quote:
Jesus did not use the words ''marital unfaithfulness''. He used the word ''adultery''. Today, almost many of the spouses have fallen into the category of marital unfaithfulness. Do you mean to say that all these spouses are liable to be divorced?
Actually, Jesus spoke Aramaic, and since we don't have an original quote in Aramaic, we don't know what word he actually used. The Greek that we do have is translated various ways depending on the translation used i.e. "marital unfaithfulness", NIV; "immorality", NAS, "fornication", KJV, etc... Maybe the closest to the original would be "davar zenut" or a "thing of unfaithfulness" taken from a Hebrew translation of the NT; Hebrew is very close to the Aramaic that Jesus spoke.
Regardless of what the word was that Jesus actually used, it is clear that his intent was to raise the standard of what was required to divorce, so to minimize "marital unfaithfulness" as something every spouse is guilty of and therefore provide grounds for every couple to divorce would be grossly taking this out of context. I personally could never accept an interpretation that treated this phrase that way.
quote:
The so called divorce in second marriage is required to undo the wrong remarriage. It is restoration from sin. It is a journey from sin to righteousness. This another divorce will not cause any damage to the Christian community
I don't believe this is biblical, nor do I have any reason to believe that this will not cause further damage to the Christian community. Divorce is always tragic, and I have personally never seen a divorce that wasn't accompanied by a great deal of pain, and that pain not only affects the couple involved, but the many people who are involved in their lives i.e. friends, relatives, children, etc... Assuming these are Christians who are being asked to divorce, how could this not damage the Christian community who are there brothers and sisters in Christ?
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/20/2007 1:16:57 PM
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pickupyourmat
Posts: 278
Joined: 7/5/2007
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Hey prophet_india,
Your answer is a little unclear. Remember, I gave the scenario, so I wanted your answer to only deal with what has been presented - the case in which sex did not occur but a second marriage did. The point I'm illustrating here is that adultery, even by our standards, is not only the physical act committed but it involves the breaking of vows. What you say here is true.
quote:
It is not the mere sex that matters here.
I brought this up because I mentioned that adultery cannot be restricted to just the sexual act and you said that is the only meaning. I will find the post and link it later. Adultery is never just meant to deal with the physical act and Jesus teaches us that. We learn that adultery starts in the heart and eventually it will happen if it is not dealt with. A man is an adulterer whose desire is that way as well.
Let me be clear here. That does not mean couples can just get up and divorce because they suspect their spouses of heart adultery. That has already been discussed elsewhere. The only thing I wanted to pull out was the understanding that adultery is not limited, by definition, to sex with someone other than your spouse but more is involved, which is why again, I can understand there being more than one ground for divorce but even then, it is not mandatory. I appreciate the translation which says "marital unfaithfulness". This, in my opinion, encompasses of all what Scripture says and the standard doesn't change from OT to NT. God never approved of divorces for any reason nor does He approve of it now. God allowed divorce for very few reasons then and I believe He does now. There is no need to try and restrict more than what God has already done because He has given very narrow parameters to begin with.
< Message edited by pickupyourmat -- 9/20/2007 1:29:06 PM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/20/2007 2:59:08 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1511
Joined: 9/20/2005
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quote:
This is simply a false statement, I have provided many scriptural references throughout this discussion. You may choose not to interpret those scriptures as I do, but it simply not true to say that I did not provide any references.
I don't mean to be wrongly offensive, but I don't believe you have provided ANY scriptures which state what you believe to be truth: that a second marriage nullifies the first marriage. To hold that view and speak it as truth, you must be able to show, from scripture that this is the case. To me, it is a very weak argument and not one that can be supported biblically. What we do have is Jesus declaring a second marriage as adultery. As I said, you can't be lawfully married in God's eyes AND also be declared guilty of adultery. The second can only be adultery because God see the first couple as still bound together, and the second NOT bound together by Him..........and if that be the case, then it is truth that repentance would mean forsaking the second relationship.
Iquote:
did explain how I believe the covenant is dissolved; as I have stated I believe that a second marriage covenant is valid even if it began in sin i.e. adultery. The details and scripture references I have already given in previous posts. Again I accept your right not to accept my explanation, but it is untrue to say that I did not give an explanation.
I too accept your right not to align with my views, but I still do not believe you have presented a good case for what you say you believe. You are putting all your belief on what we read in Mose's law........the problem you have is that you cannot explain how it is that David took back his wife AFTER she married another.........and there is absolutely no record of him sinning by doing this. He took her back because she did not belong to the second man she married. She was David's wife.......so in that case a "vow" did not dissolve the marriage...........same with the priest of Mal. 2:10-17. The biggest problem is that I don't see the "vow dissolves a previous marriage joined by God" taught anywhere in the NT either. All we see spoken of by Jesus(and Paul) is that the second union is sinful.
quote:
The point of showing the examples of polygamous relationships in the bible, was to show examples of marriages that began in sin, but in which the bible does not seem to question the validity of the marriage covenant. What you have not provided is an example where the bible makes clear that the covenant of a second marriage is invalid because it began in sin.
So you believe polygamy is ok with God, then........and in such cases a second wife should be retained? Oh, and I just had this thought: If a second vow dissolves the first vow, how does that work with polygamy? Do you believe the first wife then is no longer a wife, but only the second?
quote:
Additionally, in the passage in Mt. 19 where Jesus state a clear exception i.e. marital unfaithfulness in regards to remarriage, you have simply ignored it.
No, I've addressed my belief on that many, many times throughout this thread. I have stated time and again that Jesus could NOT have been giving permission to remarry due to adultery within a marriage because that would contradict everything else He taught, not only on marriage, but on forgiveness, reconciliation, TRUE agape love, etc. Not only that, but that rendering also conflicts with Paul's teaching that even in the face of adultery, the marriage bond survives until the death of one of the spouses. This is also what the early church believed/taught, and I believe they were rightly dividing the Word of Truth. The reformation church threw the baby out with the bathwater when dealing with what they perceived where RC practices, but actually the truth is that the VERY earliest churches all taught that marriage was until death (not just an "ideal", but actually was binding until death---even if a spouse was in unrepentant adultery).. I cannot find fault with this view, biblically speaking.
quote:
I believe all divorce is wrong
I am glad you prefaced that statement with, "I believe", because the truth is that in scripture not ALL divorce was wrong (Ezra 9-10, Herod/Herodias' marriage)...............
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/20/2007 4:01:56 PM
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car2ner
Posts: 2775
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
The so called divorce in second marriage is required to undo the wrong remarriage. It is restoration from sin. It is a journey from sin to righteousness. This another divorce will not cause any damage to the Christian community
I don't believe this is biblical, nor do I have any reason to believe that this will not cause further damage to the Christian community. Divorce is always tragic, and I have personally never seen a divorce that wasn't accompanied by a great deal of pain, and that pain not only affects the couple involved, but the many people who are involved in their lives i.e. friends, relatives, children, etc... Assuming these are Christians who are being asked to divorce, how could this not damage the Christian community who are there brothers and sisters in Christ?
I have seen 2nd marriages that have been blessed. If one of these couples divorced (and it would be painful) and said that God told them to so that they could return to the ones that had been mistreating them, unbelievers around them would think God was venidictive and cruel. Any children who have come to know that couple as adults would also be hurt. Unbelievers would then use this example to show that God was a harsh God.
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/20/2007 4:29:11 PM
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treeclimber48
Posts: 78
Joined: 8/25/2006
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Matthew 19:9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness and marries another woman commits adultery.
(except for marital unfaithfulness, in some Bibles fornication, which involves unmarried couples)
A certificate of divorce was granted so that the woman could remarry.
According to Deut. 24:1; a woman once divorced can not remarry her former husband. If they at an affair, it would be an abomination before the Lord if they remarried.
This means that once you are divorced you may not remarry your wife or husband and expect the Lord to see it in his eyes. It is an abmination before the Lord and unclean.
According to 1 Corin. 7:39 A wife was bound to her husband legally as long as they both lived or until he divorced her.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/20/2007 5:57:16 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1511
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
I have seen 2nd marriages that have been blessed. If one of these couples divorced (and it would be painful) and said that God told them to so that they could return to the ones that had been mistreating them, unbelievers around them would think God was venidictive and cruel. Any children who have come to know that couple as adults would also be hurt. Unbelievers would then use this example to show that God was a harsh God.
car2ner,
That can't be what sways us one way or the other. The truth is that God calls us to endure many HARD things in following Him that the "lost" do not think fair. Yes, God is a LOVING God, but He is also a God that will judge all of mankind..........and many think His eternal judgments are "unfair"...........do we then change the gospel to suit those who do not want a God that is a judger of mankind?
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/20/2007 6:03:20 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1511
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
A certificate of divorce was granted so that the woman could remarry.
In Mt. 19:9, the woman whose husband marries another(commits adultery) is NOT free to marry. "whosoever marries her that is put away commits adultery".............
quote:
According to Deut. 24:1; a woman once divorced can not remarry her former husband. If they at an affair, it would be an abomination before the Lord if they remarried.
Read. Jer. 3:1.........
quote:
This means that once you are divorced you may not remarry your wife or husband and expect the Lord to see it in his eyes. It is an abmination before the Lord and unclean.
The woman in Deut. 24 is not charged with adultery for remarriage..............those who remarry in the Gospel teachings by Jesus DO commit adultery by remarrying.........because they are not "free" to be with another.
quote:
According to 1 Corin. 7:39 A wife was bound to her husband legally as long as they both lived or until he divorced her.
Nowhere will we find Paul teaching that the woman is free if her husband divorced her in I Cor. 7:39...........matter of fact, if a woman is NOT with her husband, Paul earlier gives the Lord's command(I Cor. 7:10-11): "remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband". There is no allowance to marry a different man.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/20/2007 6:18:15 PM
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blessednw
Posts: 668
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
Like you I too believe that the Christian community has failed tragically in the area of divorce and remarriage, and really do appreciate much of the stand that you have taken, but I am troubled by the advocation of divorce in second marriages. I believe all divorce is wrong, and I believe that advocating another divorce will only further damage the Christian community.
I could see that you believe divorce should be avoided. I like the vow that "Divorce is not an option!" that many couples commit to. The Christian community has made divorce easier to swallow. Sort of a "necessary evil". If you believe that divorce is wrong, then you really need to see how remarriage acceptance perpetuates divorce acceptance in the Christian community.
... if we truly believe that God does not Honor Divorce, as it is not His way, in fact, He does hate it, to "remarry" against what Jesus has taught us, is to support that first divorce.
That first divorce is an unreconciled relationship. It is a wound, that will not be healed until there is reconciliation. We are not very experienced at reconciliation in our modern culture. We tend to distance and write people off when they offend us, even our lifetime mates.
It makes a lot of sense that God has said not to seperate, but if done so, remain unmarried or be reconciled. This is so clear.
Because people view a legal paper as the "marriage", they give weight/honor to subsequent "marriages" that might be chosen after a first, original marriage.
So when we elevate a legal union that Jesus called adultery, it is we who miss the mark. We end up, perhaps without conscious effort, promoting that original divorce. We perpetuate the decision to stay divorced, in an unreconciled state with our original mate, which has also consequences. Check out. Matt 5:25-25
When we repent for divorce in the original marriage, and at least one of the couple obeys God in "remaining unmarried or being reconciled", there are the benefits of.....
1)Resisting divorce mindset both personally and corporately
2)Honoring God's Word in this most painful and difficult of trials
3)an example to the next generation that the marriage should be an honored, lifelong bond
If we instead chuck the obligation, convince ourselves it is okay to sidestep God's word without consequences, and we justify a new relationship....we
1)set an example that till death do us part is just an noble idea but not truly possible
2)ignore Jesus clear denouncement of remarriage-adultery. You might want to do a thorough study on adultery. How it is defined, and what it's manifestations/consequences are.
3)We inadvertantly "honor" divorce. At least we honor the first one we have used as a stepping stone to the current status of "freedom" to start over with a new marriage.
Which glass would you rather drink from?
I cannot say enough that we are suffering in our current culture of divorce and easy remarriage due to our vast accomodation to this compromise. I do not say this out of individual pointing of the finger, but out a deeply experienced, costly searching of God's Word and through trial.
If we want to say we are against divorce, then we should not promote remarriage while a true, original spouse still lives.
Supporting remarriage while an original spouse lives is supporting that divorce and sending messages about all divorces (unreconciled relationships)that people want to stay in place. Our actions say how we really think.
The Church of Jesus Christ is so heavily under fire from the homosexual community, and perhaps with good reason!
The homosexual man who exposed a well known pastor (who is very gifted, talented, kind ) said that he could not stand it when he heard that this pastor was part of a national prayer movement that condemned homosexual marriage. This made him very angry, as you can imagine.
They (homosexual community who see themselves as christians) have pointed out in Scripture how we have not honored our marriage vows, so they should not have to follow our ideas that marriage is one man/one woman for life. They have exposed our hypocrisy. This does not justify their disobedience to His word.
If we say we are against divorce, we need to see how the acceptance of remarriage that Jesus called adultery is perpetuating a climate of divorce mindset. The two go hand in hand. Remarriage adultery would not be able to be entered into without the honoring of divorce.
Else the unions would be what God calls marriage.
_____________________________
This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh.....
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/20/2007 6:29:02 PM
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keepingfaith
Posts: 1012
Joined: 5/11/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
I do believe however that there are circumstances where seeking reconsideration would be wrong such as when a spouse has already remarried; it is in those circumstances I believe that reconciliation is not possible.
Response from Keeping Faith:
Apparently it is possible, because I know many cases of remarrieds reconciling to original (covenant) spouse.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/20/2007 8:02:09 PM
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JanieT
Posts: 4
Joined: 9/20/2007
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Forgive me if I make a repeated post...This is a long thread and I don't know if this was addressed yet....
Concerning marriage/divorce/re-marriage....
What if before you gave your life to the Lord you married? Would this act be done in the flesh and not of the Spirit of the Lord and NOT the will of God? If so, if you divorce this person and marry another in the flesh again are you in adlultry because your in your flesh and not a child of God yet?
Fast forward....You've divorced your first husband, remarried a different man, your first husband dies, but your second husband is abusive and neither one of you are following the Lord and you divorce him because he is abusive.
You find a Chrisitan man, give your life to the Lord, you marry and now live your life for the Lord and know that God join you two together, is this committing adultry?
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/20/2007 8:58:05 PM
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feetareshod
Posts: 5
Joined: 6/12/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pickupyourmat
Hello prophet_india  ,
quote:
There are many people who had married prostitutes and rehabilitated them by showing compassion on them. God loves prostitutes also because Jesus died for them also on the Cross. A prostitute can be married and rehabilitated.
I will simply ask you. If you heard a voice telling you to marry that prostitute you saw on the street the other day (your single), wouldn't you begin to question that voice and whether it was really God or not?
quote:
God never asked any old testament saint to marry a divorcee. The exception was given to the men of Israel to marry women divorced by their first husbands due to some uncleaness. God did not instruct the men of Israel to marry divorced women. That was a choice they made. God never instructed an OT saint to marry a divorcee - quite true. However, God only instructed the priests not to marry a divorced woman (Leviticus 21:6-7; Ezekiel 44:22). This was not the instruction to the common Israelite man. Do you agree with this?
Note - In case some would try to make an issue and say, "see, a priests couldn't marry a divorcee". Please take note that the priest/Levite couldn't marry a widow either, which we do not disallow today. The point being that we shouldn't ascribe some uncleanness to the divorcee without knowing the grounds which we are not told.
quote:
Please note that when a man marries a prostitute, the latter becomes his wife. She is no longer a prostitute at all. A prostitute is one who is not married to any man.
This is not the biblical definition of a prostitute.
Porne - (1) a woman who sells her body for sexual uses; (2)a prostitute, a harlot, one who yields herself to defilement for the sake of gain; (3) any woman indulging in unlawful sexual intercourse, whether for gain or for lust; (4) metaph. an idolatress; of "Babylon" i.e. Rome, the chief seat of idolatry.
Marriage was not an issue here. Her activity was what defined her as a prostitute or not. She may have been married and still been a temple prostitute for example, which means she was committing adultery also but that doesn't change the fact that she was considered a prostitute. Do you agree?
quote:
How can you say that Hosea had absolutely no expectation that this woman would be true to the vow of sexual faithfuless? On what basis, you stated like this? Just a little common sense. It the same thing when we advise folk on the forum. If you marry a man who was a drug addict for example, that walk down the aisle is not going to change it. Since you knew he was, it is foolish to expect him to change after your married. We see this happening enough to know it's not wise and I don't see Hosea as being anything other than a man who experiences the same emotions and thoughts. Does that make sense?
quote:
Why do you expect God not to give us an express word to marry a prostitute? A prostitute can be forgiven and restored. Any man can marry a prostitute to transform her pitiable life. Would you advise this to any brother in your congregation who told you the Lord has instructed him to marry a prostitute? If you follow this train of thought, then I suppose you don't have a problem with a believer marrying an unbeliever in the hopes of transforming his/her life?
quote:
Can you show me the particular verse from the book of Hosiah to prove that Gomer deserved divorce on the ground that she had committed adultery after marriage?
We both agreed in previous post that a man could divorce his wife on the grounds of sexual unfaithfulness during betrothal or after consummation. Therefore, there does not need to be a Scripture in Hosea making this point because it was in the law. He could have lawfully divorced her. Isn't that true?
quote:
Can you prove that Gomer had committed whoredom after her marriage to Hosea?
Hosea 1:3
So Hosea married Gomer, daughter of Diblaim. She became pregnant and had a son.
Hosea 3:2
So I brought her for 23 ounces of silver and 10 bushels of barley.
This tell me they married and then she went out and had to be purchased back. If this is to be seen as the relationship between God and His people, then it would be clear Hosea was married first, just as God entered into a covenant with His people (Mt. Sinai) and then Gomer committed adultery, just as God accused His people of doing after they had entered into a marriage covenant with Him. I'm not 100% sure if these children were Hosea's or someone else's since God says to name them "Unloved" and "Not My People". This suggest to me that these were the children of adultery. At any rate, it seems to be that she continued in her prostitution after their marriage and needed to be redeemed (bought back). Do you agree with this?
quote:
Though the Lord gave Israel the certificate of divorce, yet the Lord had not divorced her but forgave and restored her. After sending her away, the Lord restored her also...We cannot justify divorce under the Covenant of grace at all cost because God had not divorced His bride Israel under the Old Covenant.
In a previous post I addressed the issue of God divorcing Israel as a whole but will choose individuals to come into Christ. In that sense He will be restored to Israel (the individual but not the nation) Here Jeremiah 3:8, 14. Do you believe the whole nation of Israel will be restored to God and not the Remnant (just curious on this one)?
If as a single person, and I am told by the Lord to marry a prostitute, then I would obey the Lord, as Hosea did. My justification is that the prostitute has never been married.
quote:
However, God only instructed the priests not to marry a divorced woman (Leviticus 21:6-7; Ezekiel 44:22).
According to 1 Peter 2:9, we are a royal priesthood. That means that everyone who is a true Christian is a priest.
quote:
Just a little common sense. It the same thing when we advise folk on the forum. If you marry a man who was a drug addict for example, that walk down the aisle is not going to change it. Since you knew he was, it is foolish to expect him to change after your married. We see this happening enough to know it's not wise and I don't see Hosea as being anything other than a man who experiences the same emotions and thoughts. Does that make sense?
So you are saying that we cannot change after coming to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ? This is not true. We only change after coming to the Truth, and not before. If I am told by the Holy Spirit that something needs to be changed, or am convicted of some wrong doing, it is then that I repent and change, not before.
quote:
Would you advise this to any brother in your congregation who told you the Lord has instructed him to marry a prostitute? If you follow this train of thought, then I suppose you don't have a problem with a believer marrying an unbeliever in the hopes of transforming his/her life?
If the prostitute repents, her sins are forgiven her. She is no longer a part of her former sins. She has not married, therefore she is not a divorcee. So I would advise my brother that it is an acceptable marriage.
Prophet India would never permit an unequally yoked marriage. This would go against the Word of God. If an unbeliever's life is going to change, let the change come before marrying a believer.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/20/2007 9:11:11 PM
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car2ner
Posts: 2775
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
Status: offline
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quote:
That can't be what sways us one way or the other. The truth is that God calls us to endure many HARD things in following Him that the "lost" do not think fair. Yes, God is a LOVING God, but He is also a God that will judge all of mankind..........and many think His eternal judgments are "unfair"...........do we then change the gospel to suit those who do not want a God that is a judger of mankind?
Of course we don't change the gospel. This was in response to "another divorce will not cause any damage to the Christian community". Tearing apart a happy family with loving parents because someone believes that it is continuous adultery will drive some further from the gospel.
There are plenty of other opportunities to show that God leads us through the hard times.
As much as some don't want to admit it, to see someone who struggled for many many years trying to hold a relationship together because it was the Christian thing to do... and feeling sorry for them.., then after a remarriage seeing them restored and whole in a loving relationship. Hmm, might that not show them the Grace of God?
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/20/2007 9:11:51 PM
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feetareshod
Posts: 5
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JanieT
Forgive me if I make a repeated post...This is a long thread and I don't know if this was addressed yet....
Concerning marriage/divorce/re-marriage....
What if before you gave your life to the Lord you married? Would this act be done in the flesh and not of the Spirit of the Lord and NOT the will of God? If so, if you divorce this person and marry another in the flesh again are you in adlultry because your in your flesh and not a child of God yet?
Fast forward....You've divorced your first husband, remarried a different man, your first husband dies, but your second husband is abusive and neither one of you are following the Lord and you divorce him because he is abusive.
You find a Chrisitan man, give your life to the Lord, you marry and now live your life for the Lord and know that God join you two together, is this committing adultry?
If you married before becoming born again, your marriage still stands until your wife/husband dies. Any first marriage, whether we are Christian or not, is sacred to the Lord
In the case of the abusive husband which you have left (divorced), you must remain unmarried until he dies.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/20/2007 9:44:00 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1511
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: feetareshod
quote:
ORIGINAL: JanieT
Forgive me if I make a repeated post...This is a long thread and I don't know if this was addressed yet....
Concerning marriage/divorce/re-marriage....
What if before you gave your life to the Lord you married? Would this act be done in the flesh and not of the Spirit of the Lord and NOT the will of God? If so, if you divorce this person and marry another in the flesh again are you in adlultry because your in your flesh and not a child of God yet?
Fast forward....You've divorced your first husband, remarried a different man, your first husband dies, but your second husband is abusive and neither one of you are following the Lord and you divorce him because he is abusive.
You find a Chrisitan man, give your life to the Lord, you marry and now live your life for the Lord and know that God join you two together, is this committing adultry?
If you married before becoming born again, your marriage still stands until your wife/husband dies. Any first marriage, whether we are Christian or not, is sacred to the Lord
In the case of the abusive husband which you have left (divorced), you must remain unmarried until he dies.
I agree with this counsel.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/20/2007 9:52:25 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1511
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessednw
I could see that you believe divorce should be avoided. I like the vow that "Divorce is not an option!" that many couples commit to. The Christian community has made divorce easier to swallow. Sort of a "necessary evil". If you believe that divorce is wrong, then you really need to see how remarriage acceptance perpetuates divorce acceptance in the Christian community.
... if we truly believe that God does not Honor Divorce, as it is not His way, in fact, He does hate it, to "remarry" against what Jesus has taught us, is to support that first divorce.
That first divorce is an unreconciled relationship. It is a wound, that will not be healed until there is reconciliation. We are not very experienced at reconciliation in our modern culture. We tend to distance and write people off when they offend us, even our lifetime mates.
It makes a lot of sense that God has said not to seperate, but if done so, remain unmarried or be reconciled. This is so clear.
Because people view a legal paper as the "marriage", they give weight/honor to subsequent "marriages" that might be chosen after a first, original marriage.
So when we elevate a legal union that Jesus called adultery, it is we who miss the mark. We end up, perhaps without conscious effort, promoting that original divorce. We perpetuate the decision to stay divorced, in an unreconciled state with our original mate, which has also consequences. Check out. Matt 5:25-25
When we repent for divorce in the original marriage, and at least one of the couple obeys God in "remaining unmarried or being reconciled", there are the benefits of.....
1)Resisting divorce mindset both personally and corporately
2)Honoring God's Word in this most painful and difficult of trials
3)an example to the next generation that the marriage should be an honored, lifelong bond
If we instead chuck the obligation, convince ourselves it is okay to sidestep God's word without consequences, and we justify a new relationship....we
1)set an example that till death do us part is just an noble idea but not truly possible
2)ignore Jesus clear denouncement of remarriage-adultery. You might want to do a thorough study on adultery. How it is defined, and what it's manifestations/consequences are.
3)We inadvertantly "honor" divorce. At least we honor the first one we have used as a stepping stone to the current status of "freedom" to start over with a new marriage.
Which glass would you rather drink from?
I cannot say enough that we are suffering in our current culture of divorce and easy remarriage due to our vast accomodation to this compromise. I do not say this out of individual pointing of the finger, but out a deeply experienced, costly searching of God's Word and through trial.
If we want to say we are against divorce, then we should not promote remarriage while a true, original spouse still lives.
Supporting remarriage while an original spouse lives is supporting that divorce and sending messages about all divorces (unreconciled relationships)that people want to stay in place. Our actions say how we really think.
The Church of Jesus Christ is so heavily under fire from the homosexual community, and perhaps with good reason!
The homosexual man who exposed a well known pastor (who is very gifted, talented, kind ) said that he could not stand it when he heard that this pastor was part of a national prayer movement that condemned homosexual marriage. This made him very angry, as you can imagine.
They (homosexual community who see themselves as christians) have pointed out in Scripture how we have not honored our marriage vows, so they should not have to follow our ideas that marriage is one man/one woman for life. They have exposed our hypocrisy. This does not justify their disobedience to His word.
If we say we are against divorce, we need to see how the acceptance of remarriage that Jesus called adultery is perpetuating a climate of divorce mindset. The two go hand in hand. Remarriage adultery would not be able to be entered into without the honoring of divorce.
Else the unions would be what God calls marriage.
Wonderful word, Blessed!! 
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/20/2007 10:04:56 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1511
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Of course we don't change the gospel. This was in response to "another divorce will not cause any damage to the Christian community". Tearing apart a happy family with loving parents because someone believes that it is continuous adultery will drive some further from the gospel.
I don't think any of us who believe first marriages are binding until death feel that another divorce will not cause damage. It sure will........it will damage emotions, finances, mindsets, etc, but the thing is, when we follow the Lord, even in those very hard things that bring suffering to us/others, in the end, God will be glorified and there will be TRUE healing for those who Love God.
quote:
There are plenty of other opportunities to show that God leads us through the hard times.
And many of us believe the Lord leads those who have been convicted of being in adultery through the hard times which come from repentance...........He leads them then to a "peaceful" place with Him.......a place where one has a pure heart/conscience before Him.
quote:
As much as some don't want to admit it, to see someone who struggled for many many years trying to hold a relationship together because it was the Christian thing to do... and feeling sorry for them.., then after a remarriage seeing them restored and whole in a loving relationship. Hmm, might that not show them the Grace of God ?
Some may look at it that way, but ultimately what does it show the onlooker when they see a Christian give up on the one God joined them to? What does it show them about God's longsuffering? What does it show them about "enduring to the end"? The "world" teaches that we should do all we can, then if we can do no more, it is then ok to move on. This is a world lacking in faith. When we too act as the "world"..........and the fact is that many "worldly"people are more longsuffering than those who profess the name of Christ---------so how are we presenting an image of God that is better than the "worlds" when we give up on sinful spouses and seek others to fill their places?
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/20/2007 11:10:01 PM
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JanieT
Posts: 4
Joined: 9/20/2007
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Greetings and thank you for your reply...Though I don't agree and I will share why...The reply you gave is "holding one to the letter of the law and the law kills." The reply you gave shows no way of salvation because it leaves a person to think, "Well, what's the point of giving their life to Christ if I marry and I am looked upon as an adulterer."
I know you don't and won't agree, I am not asking you too....But when Jesus Christ died on the cross He died for our sins, sins are cancelled for those who come to Him and give their life to Him....Now I am not saying that we are incapable of sinning, because the Word tells us that not one is without sin...But when a person gives their life to Christ and asks for the forgivness of sin, it is forgiven and God throws it in the sea of forgetfulness to be remembered no more.
If a person asks for forgiveness for marrying a person He did not ordain for them, it is forgiven...For God not to forgive this person would call God a liar of which He is NOT! NOW, once saved and they are walking in their salvation, they are not to divorce...
Lastly your reply "seems" to say, if one was to re-marry they are not forgiven...That is akin to saying, "If you abort a baby you are always a murderer." I am not an advacate of abortion, but if someone chose it, came to Christ afterwards, asked to be forgiven, then they are forgiven...They must not do it again....The prostitue ws forgiven and Jesus told her to sin no more....Her sexual sin was forgotten....
I am not trying to start an arguement....I believe in a God that is pure love, but one that holds people accountable, shows His anger, and will one day show His wrath upon this earth...I believe in God, the Creator of Heaven and earth, I also believe in Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, He died on the cross so that a sinner like me can be saved....
quote:
ORIGINAL: feetareshod
quote:
ORIGINAL: JanieT
Forgive me if I make a repeated post...This is a long thread and I don't know if this was addressed yet....
Concerning marriage/divorce/re-marriage....
What if before you gave your life to the Lord you married? Would this act be done in the flesh and not of the Spirit of the Lord and NOT the will of God? If so, if you divorce this person and marry another in the flesh again are you in adlultry because your in your flesh and not a child of God yet?
Fast forward....You've divorced your first husband, remarried a different man, your first husband dies, but your second husband is abusive and neither one of you are following the Lord and you divorce him because he is abusive.
You find a Chrisitan man, give your life to the Lord, you marry and now live your life for the Lord and know that God join you two together, is this committing adultry?
If you married before becoming born again, your marriage still stands until your wife/husband dies. Any first marriage, whether we are Christian or not, is sacred to the Lord
In the case of the abusive husband which you have left (divorced), you must remain unmarried until he dies.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/21/2007 1:27:49 AM
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prophet_india
Posts: 437
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: India
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
How do you say that the polygamous relationship began in sin? Please quote the Scriptures here. Please do not run away from this point. I will come back and discuss.
In Mt. 19 Jesus refers back to Gen. 2 to show the original intention of marriage i.e. one man and one united, as one flesh, for their entire life; he then expounds on this text. Since this was stated in Genesis as being the standard for marriage from the beginning, then any marriages subsequent to this that do not follow this standard are wrong. Polygamous marriages are clearly outside of the standard for marriage that God established in Genesis, and therefore were wrong i.e. sinful.
My comments:
Yes, the intention of God for the institution of the holy marriage is between one man and one woman. Agreed! Gen 38:8 "And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother". Onan, the son of Judah, was allowed to marry the wife of the brother of the latter just to raise up seed to the deceased brother concerned. But what happened? "Whe he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the groundl lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the Lord; wherefore, He slew him also..." (Gen.38:8-10). God did allow Onan to marry the wife of his deceased brother to raise up a seed. Secondly, if a Hebrew takes him another wife, her food, her rainment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish (Ex.21:10). Deut.21:15 says, "If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be her's that was hated......"
If you read the above passages, you will definitely agree that the practice of polygamy was allowed by God in due course.
Why did God allow polygamy in the Old Testament? The Bible does not specifically say why God allowed polygamy. But God did allow it out of His wisdom under the Old Covenant.
So, it seems that God allowed polygamy to protect and provide for the women who could not find a husband otherwise. A man would take multiple wives, and serve as the provider and protector of all of them. While definitely not ideal, living in a polygamist household was far better than the alternatives: prostitution, slavery, starvation, etc. In addition to the protection / provision factor, polygamy enabled a much faster expansion of humanity, fulfilling God’s command to “be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth” (Genesis 9:7). Men are capable of impregnating multiple women in the same time period…causing humanity to grow much faster than if each man was only able to produce one child each year.
In the New Testament, 1 Timothy 3:2, 12 and Titus 1:6 give “the husband of one wife” in a list of qualifications for spiritual leadership. While these qualifications are only specifically for positions of spiritual leadership, they apply equally to all Christians. Should not all Christians be “above reproach...temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money” (1 Timothy 3:2-4)? If we are called to be holy (1 Peter 1:16), and if these standards are holy for elders and deacons, then they are holy for all. Ephesians 5:22-33, speaking of the relationship between husbands and wives, when referring to a husband (singular) always also refers to a wife (singular). “…for the husband is the head of the wife (singular) … He who loves his wife (singular) loves himself. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife (singular), and the two will become one flesh … each one of you also must love his wife (singular) as he loves himself, and the wife (singular) must respect her husband.” There is absolutely no allowance for polygamy for followers of Jesus Christ.
Though God had not originally intended the institution of the polygamous marriage, yet, in due course of time, God did allow it under the Old Covenant. You cannot say that the polygamous marriage was sinful. If it was sinful, then God would have judged Abraham, David, etc. Of course, it was wrongful and not sinful. Please note the difference between "wrongful" and "sinful". Jesus did call the remarriage of a divorcee with a living spouse "sinful".
quote:
quote:
Jesus did not use the words ''marital unfaithfulness''. He used the word ''adultery''. Today, almost many of the spouses have fallen into the category of marital unfaithfulness. Do you mean to say that all these spouses are liable to be divorced?
Actually, Jesus spoke Aramaic, and since we don't have an original quote in Aramaic, we don't know what word he actually used. The Greek that we do have is translated various ways depending on the translation used i.e. "marital unfaithfulness", NIV; "immorality", NAS, "fornication", KJV, etc... Maybe the closest to the original would be "davar zenut" or a "thing of unfaithfulness" taken from a Hebrew translation of the NT; Hebrew is very close to the Aramaic that Jesus spoke.
My comments
Nobody is supposed to know the language of Aramaic or even the Hebrew and Greek languages to know the truths spoken in the Bible. God writes the truths on the table of our hearts under the New Covenant. It is the Spirit of truth that speaks to our hearts. If "a thing of unfaithfulness" becomes a ground for divorce, I repeat here, then every marriage would be in question because one of the married spouses would have definitely fallen into the category of unfaithfulness to the other spouse, not necessarily in sex, but also in other matters. Many husbands do commit the sin of adultery by lusting after other women in their hearts. Many husbands do remain unfaithful to their wives as they are tempted to fall into the snare of extra-marital relationships or immorality while working in their offices or elsewhere. There are thousands of spouses who have extra-marital relationships today but they do not want to divorce their spouses. Of course, they commit the sin of adultery. What is the solution to this? Do you advocate "divorce" as the only course open to these aggrieved spouses? Does Jesus want these immoral spouses to be divorced? Please tell me.
quote:
Regardless of what the word was that Jesus actually used, it is clear that his intent was to raise the standard of what was required to divorce, so to minimize "marital unfaithfulness" as something every spouse is guilty of and therefore provide grounds for every couple to divorce would be grossly taking this out of context. I personally could never accept an interpretation that treated this phrase that way.
My comments:
NO! NOT AT ALL! Jesus never intended for providing grounds for every couple to divorce on account of marital unfaithfulness. This is not the gospel of Jesus Christ. Forgiveness, long-suffering, prayer, faith, cross-bearing, persecution, sufferings are the cornerstones of our faith under the New Covenant. Jesus spoke those words to the Pharisees who lived during His days under the Old Covenant. He even did not allow them to remarry other persons.
quote:
quote:
The so called divorce in second marriage is required to undo the wrong remarriage. It is restoration from sin. It is a journey from sin to righteousness. This another divorce will not cause any damage to the Christian community
I don't believe this is biblical, nor do I have any reason to believe that this will not cause further damage to the Christian community. Divorce is always tragic, and I have personally never seen a divorce that wasn't accompanied by a great deal of pain, and that pain not only affects the couple involved, but the many people who are involved in their lives i.e. friends, relatives, children, etc... Assuming these are Christians who are being asked to divorce, how could this not damage the Christian community who are there brothers and sisters in Christ?
My comments
Yes, every divorce is tragic and painful. In this thread, we are advocating divorce of remarried spouses so that they are brought from the darkness to the light, from the sin to the righteousness, from the death to the life. I do agree that this particular divorce i.e. divorce of remarried spouses is very painful and tragic. But the Holy Spirit wants to perform this painful surgery so that the Body of Jesus Christ may be sanctified and perfected through this painful suffering. If cancer is to be removed, a surgery is essential. We cannot allow this cancer to spread to the other parts in the body.
< Message edited by prophet_india -- 9/21/2007 1:37:15 AM >
_____________________________
Wait on the Lord patiently for restoration of marriage. If you believe Him for restoration, God will make a way for you in the wilderness.
http://mychurch.org/gloryofhiscross
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/21/2007 1:50:03 AM
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feetareshod
Posts: 5
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JanieT
Greetings and thank you for your reply...Though I don't agree and I will share why...The reply you gave is "holding one to the letter of the law and the law kills." The reply you gave shows no way of salvation because it leaves a person to think, "Well, what's the point of giving their life to Christ if I marry and I am looked upon as an adulterer."
I know you don't and won't agree, I am not asking you too....But when Jesus Christ died on the cross He died for our sins, sins are cancelled for those who come to Him and give their life to Him....Now I am not saying that we are incapable of sinning, because the Word tells us that not one is without sin...But when a person gives their life to Christ and asks for the forgivness of sin, it is forgiven and God throws it in the sea of forgetfulness to be remembered no more.
If a person asks for forgiveness for marrying a person He did not ordain for them, it is forgiven...For God not to forgive this person would call God a liar of which He is NOT! NOW, once saved and they are walking in their salvation, they are not to divorce...
Lastly your reply "seems" to say, if one was to re-marry they are not forgiven...That is akin to saying, "If you abort a baby you are always a murderer." I am not an advacate of abortion, but if someone chose it, came to Christ afterwards, asked to be forgiven, then they are forgiven...They must not do it again....The prostitue ws forgiven and Jesus told her to sin no more....Her sexual sin was forgotten....
I am not trying to start an arguement....I believe in a God that is pure love, but one that holds people accountable, shows His anger, and will one day show His wrath upon this earth...I believe in God, the Creator of Heaven and earth, I also believe in Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, He died on the cross so that a sinner like me can be saved....
Janie, when Jesus told the prostitute who was caught in adultery "go and sin no more" we hear nothing further from, or about the woman. Jesus forgave her, but sternly warned her not to repeat her sin. Her sin was forgotten. Had she committed the act of prostitution again, her sin would not have been forgiven.
Fast forward to today...a Christian man (or woman) has been married two, three times or more. Even though they read in the Holy Bible that adultery is not acceptable. They now have a choice..either they leave their adulterous relationship, or remain living in sin. They either obey the Lord, or disobey Him.
Yes, the Lord died for our sins, but does His death, which cleanses us from all sin allow our garments to be spotted again by the same sin? God forbid!
If a man marry's a woman whom God has NOT chosen for him, ie. a second "wife" while his former wife still lives, he is commiting the sin of adultery. Forgiveness only comes after we truly repent of our sins, abandoning the adulterous relationship and do not continue therein.
< Message edited by feetareshod -- 9/21/2007 1:56:10 AM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/21/2007 2:18:24 AM
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prophet_india
Posts: 437
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: India
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JanieT
Forgive me if I make a repeated post...This is a long thread and I don't know if this was addressed yet....
Concerning marriage/divorce/re-marriage....
What if before you gave your life to the Lord you married? Would this act be done in the flesh and not of the Spirit of the Lord and NOT the will of God? If so, if you divorce this person and marry another in the flesh again are you in adlultry because your in your flesh and not a child of God yet?
Fast forward....You've divorced your first husband, remarried a different man, your first husband dies, but your second husband is abusive and neither one of you are following the Lord and you divorce him because he is abusive.
You find a Chrisitan man, give your life to the Lord, you marry and now live your life for the Lord and know that God join you two together, is this committing adultry?
Dear JanieT,
You are most welcome to this thread. We pray that the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of the Truth, may enlighten your mind! We pray that the Holy Spirit may teach you through me and other vessels whom the Lord may want to use in this thread.
The subsequent re-marriage with the man of God is not a valid marriage in the eyes of God, in the light of the words of Jesus Christ. What is questioned here is not the salvation of the man of God and the other woman who gave her life to Jesus. It is their marriage relationship that is questioned. This marriage relationship is called "adultery" by Jesus Christ. Both of them should sit together with the Word of God before them with an open mind and take a decision for physical separation. After their formal divorce, they can both live as the brother and the sister in Christ Jesus. Their fellowship through Jesus Christ should continue but their marriage relationship should be crucified on the Cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. They should deny themselves, take up their crosses and follow their Lord Jesus.
Please take time to read articles in my website at http://gloryofhiscross.googlepages.com/marriageanddivorce
With love and prayers,
Job Anbalagan
< Message edited by prophet_india -- 9/21/2007 3:21:49 AM >
_____________________________
Wait on the Lord patiently for restoration of marriage. If you believe Him for restoration, God will make a way for you in the wilderness.
http://mychurch.org/gloryofhiscross
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/21/2007 3:13:33 AM
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prophet_india
Posts: 437
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: India
Status: offline
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Dear JanieT,
With all my love and humility before God and other people of God in this thread, I offer my comments. Since you are new to this thread and may not be able to glance through all these pages, I just offer my counsel to you very briefly but with a heart filled with love for you.
quote:
Greetings and thank you for your reply...Though I don't agree and I will share why...The reply you gave is "holding one to the letter of the law and the law kills." The reply you gave shows no way of salvation because it leaves a person to think, "Well, what's the point of giving their life to Christ if I marry and I am looked upon as an adulterer."
Do you agree that grace and truth came through Jesus Christ and that Law came through Moses and that we are under the Covenant of grace, and not under the Old Covenant? If you agree to this cardinal truth, please read further. Otherwise, please take time to understand the difference between the Law and the Grace through a separate Bible study. I proceed on the assumption that you have understood this truth. You have raised the question of salvation here. Please understand what the salvation through Jesus Christ is. It simply means that you are saved by grace and not by works. Hope you understand this. You are not saved by following the commandments of the Old Testament but by accepting Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord.
Now, let us come to the institution of marriage as ordained by God. Do you agree that God ordained the marriage instutiton for life for a man and a woman who are not earlier married? As a spinster, when you think of marriage, it means a marriage for life. You would not think of another marriage. Do you agree that this marriage is for life and that you have to preserve this marriage bond with your spouse after marriage? Do you agree to the Christian marriage vow that the husband and the wife should not separate from each other until death separates them? Hope you now agree with me that God after sending His only Begotten Son into this sinful world to redeem us from the sin. Now remember what Jesus spoke to the Pharisees who came to Him just to tempt Him. Their intention was to divorce their wives on the ground of adultery/sexual uncleanness. What did Jesus tell them? If they wanted to divorce their wives, both the divorcer and the divorcee should not remarry. Please note that the words of Jesus were applicable to the Pharisees who were allowed to divorce their wives by the law of Moses. How can you justify a divorce in the first instance under the covenant of grace when you are supposed to forgive your sinning spouse? Please note that you have received grace by grace through Jesus Christ whereas the Pharisees did not receive the same.
If you marry another woman's husband during the life time of his wife, you would be committing the sin of adultery under the New Covenant when the same was prohibited under the Old Covenant when Jesus spoke these words to the Pharisees of the Old Covenant. Can you commit a sin which was even prohibited under the Old Covenant, now that you have received forgiveness of sins (which means salvation)?
If you have truly given your life to Jesus Christ, then you have to obey Him also. If you had not known the truth at the time of receiving His salvation, you are now taught the truth. God always winks at the days of ignorance but He wants all the people to repent in these last days. If you had married for the first time, you had not sinned. But if you had remarried another woman's husband, you had sinned. First, you had coveted the husband of another woman. Then, you had committed the sin of adultery in the words of Jesus Christ. You would be looked down as an adulterer the moment the sin of adultery is committed by you.
quote:
I know you don't and won't agree, I am not asking you too....But when Jesus Christ died on the cross He died for our sins, sins are cancelled for those who come to Him and give their life to Him....Now I am not saying that we are incapable of sinning, because the Word tells us that not one is without sin...But when a person gives their life to Christ and asks for the forgivness of sin, it is forgiven and God throws it in the sea of forgetfulness to be remembered no more.
Salvation and marriage are two different issues. Salvation means forgiveness of our sins. Marriage means a life covenant between a man and a woman who are qualified to marry in the eyes of God. A non-christian couple who are entangled in a remarriage after divorce and a Christian couple who are engaged in a remarriage after divorce are at par. The salvation experience of the Christian couple who have entered into this adulterous relationship does not condone their sin if they continue to live with it. True, God does not remember the sins of the Christian couple (who are remarried) which they had committed at the time they had accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior. But if they have continued to live in the same sin, how does their salvation experience help them?
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If a person asks for forgiveness for marrying a person He did not ordain for them, it is forgiven...For God not to forgive this person would call God a liar of which He is NOT! NOW, once saved and they are walking in their salvation, they are not to divorce...
Marrying a wrong person is not sinful at all. Many persons make wrong choices at the time of marriages. It is not a sin at all. It is a genuine mistake. The question of anyone calling God a liar for forgiving the sins of a sinner does not arise here. God need not forgive a person for choosing a wrong mate because God loves even the wrong mate for whom Christ died on the Cross. Of course, a believer should not yoke himself/herself with an unbeliever through marriage. The believer should seek the counsel of the Lord for marriage.
If a person is saved, he walks in the freedom but is not supposed to live in the same sin for ever through an adulterous relationship. Such an adulterous relationship has to be repudiated and forsaken. It can be through a formal divorce because this adulterous relationship was regulated through a court decree of marriage.
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Lastly your reply "seems" to say, if one was to re-marry they are not forgiven...That is akin to saying, "If you abort a baby you are always a murderer." I am not an advocate of abortion, but if someone chose it, came to Christ afterwards, asked to be forgiven, then they are forgiven...They must not do it again....The prostitue ws forgiven and Jesus told her to sin no more....Her sexual sin was forgotten....
The remarriage which is called the sin of adultery by Jesus Christ can be forgiven through the Blood of Jesus Christ if it is repented and forsaken. If one aborts a baby, the mother or the father concerned is definitely forgiven through the Blood of Jesus Christ. If the mother is forgiven, then who will call her a murderer? Even other wise, those who abort their babies are not called murderers in the eyes of the law. If you call a mother who has aborted her baby in her womb a murderer, then she will be punished under the law of the land in the same manner a murderer is convicted. The woman of Samaria was forgiven by Jesus who asked her not to commit the same sin. How can you justify those remarried couples who persist in the same sin without repentance?
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I am not trying to start an arguement....I believe in a God that is pure love, but one that holds people accountable, shows His anger, and will one day show His wrath upon this earth...I believe in God, the Creator of Heaven and earth, I also believe in Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, He died on the cross so that a sinner like me can be saved....
You should not only know the attributes of love and longsuffering of our Father but also the other attributes of Him i.e. judgment and righteousness. Can you justify a remarriage as an act of righteousness in the eyes of God?
_____________________________
Wait on the Lord patiently for restoration of marriage. If you believe Him for restoration, God will make a way for you in the wilderness.
http://mychurch.org/gloryofhiscross
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/21/2007 9:05:15 AM
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pickupyourmat
Posts: 278
Joined: 7/5/2007
Status: offline
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feetareshod,
quote:
If as a single person, and I am told by the Lord to marry a prostitute, then I would obey the Lord, as Hosea did. My justification is that the prostitute has never been married.
Okay but that is not what I asked. My question was very specific. Not a lot of wriggle room.
I said:
quote:
I will simply ask you. If you heard a voice telling you to marry that prostitute you saw on the street the other day (your single), wouldn't you begin to question that voice and whether it was really God or not?
So I'll put the question to you:
1. If you heard "marry that prostitute" would you not question if that was God based on what you know of Him? Wouldn't you look for some kind of confirmation as to whether this was the Lord's voice you heard? Yes or no
I said:
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Just a little common sense. It the same thing when we advise folk on the forum. If you marry a man who was a drug addict for example, that walk down the aisle is not going to change it. Since you knew he was, it is foolish to expect him to change after your married. We see this happening enough to know it's not wise and I don't see Hosea as being anything other than a man who experiences the same emotions and thoughts. Does that make sense?
Your response:
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So you are saying that we cannot change after coming to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ? I am not speaking as to whether the erring spouse can change. I am speaking to the other. Let me put it this way. Say one of your girlfriends told you her boyfriend was abusive and she was considering marrying him. Would you tell her to marry him in his current state? Of course not. It would be an act of foolishness on her part to marry him and if during the marriage he hit her, wouldn't it just make sense that this is what he would do being that he had done it before and made no effort to change before marriage? What you say is true.
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We only change after coming to the Truth, and not before. If I am told by the Holy Spirit that something needs to be changed, or am convicted of some wrong doing, it is then that I repent and change, not before.
We are in agreement here. So that is why I said Hosea would have been foolish to expect sexual faithfulness in the marriage since he was marrying a prostitute. Not only that, God told him to marry a prostitute, not a reformed prostitute and there was a reason. He was showing His people what their relationship with Him was like. We know from reading that Israel's history was one of constant unfaithfulness. Hosea's marriage was meant to be a reflection. If Gomer was a repentant prostitute, then this would have been an inaccurate example. Does that make sense?
I said:
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Would you advise this to any brother in your congregation who told you the Lord has instructed him to marry a prostitute? If you follow this train of thought, then I suppose you don't have a problem with a believer marrying an unbeliever in the hopes of transforming his/her life?
Your response:
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If the prostitute repents, her sins are forgiven her. She is no longer a part of her former sins. She has not married, therefore she is not a divorcee. So I would advise my brother that it is an acceptable marriage.
Again, your not answering the specific question. I am not addressing the repentant prostitute who would no longer be a prostitute. So again we are in agreement based on what you say below.
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...unequally yoked marriage. This would go against the Word of God. If an unbeliever's life is going to change, let the change come before marrying a believer.
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