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If you heard a voice telling you to marry that prostitute you saw on the street the other day (your single), wouldn't you begin to question that voice and whether it was really God or not?

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Can you prove that Gomer had committed whoredom after her marriage to Hosea?

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ORIGINAL: pickupyourmat

Hello prophet_india ,

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There are many people who had married prostitutes and rehabilitated them by showing compassion on them. God loves prostitutes also because Jesus died for them also on the Cross. A prostitute can be married and rehabilitated.

I will simply ask you. If you heard a voice telling you to marry that prostitute you saw on the street the other day (your single), wouldn't you begin to question that voice and whether it was really God or not?

I will never heed to a voice even from the heaven. I will check up every such supernatural experience with the word of God. I will also get it confirmed by other members of the Body of Christ.

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God never asked any old testament saint to marry a divorcee. The exception was given to the men of Israel to marry women divorced by their first husbands due to some uncleaness.

God did not instruct the men of Israel to marry divorced women. That was a choice they made. God never instructed an OT saint to marry a divorcee - quite true. However, God only instructed the priests not to marry a divorced woman (Leviticus 21:6-7; Ezekiel 44:22). This was not the instruction to the common Israelite man. Do you agree with this?

The former husband who divorced her must not take her back to be his wife after she has been defiled. (Deut.24:4). Since the words ''must not'' are used in this text, I thought it was God's instructions to the people of Israel. You did want me to agree with you that these are instructions of God and not the words of Moses. I hope you do remember this.
If God instructed the priests of the Old Covenant not to marry divorcees, we, the new testament priests, should not marry divorcees. Is it now clear to you? Who is a priest under the New Covenant? You know this better. Under the new covenant, the levitical priesthood was done away with. God did not give any instruction to the common Israelite man to marry a divorcee. Only when the woman was divorced by her first husband, then she was free to marry another man but the first husband must not take her back to be his wife after she was defiled. It is an exception clause.

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Note - In case some would try to make an issue and say, "see, a priests couldn't marry a divorcee". Please take note that the priest/Levite couldn't marry a widow either, which we do not disallow today. The point being that we shouldn't ascribe some uncleanness to the divorcee without knowing the grounds which we are not told.

The priests were forbidden to marry divorcees and widows. Jesus did not allow the Pharisees to remarry after divorce. If they remarried, they would be committing the sin of adultery. No uncleanness was ascribed by Jesus to the divorcees during the days of the Pharisees. Even today also, no uncleanness is ascribed to them because under the Covenant of grace, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses every uncleanness. As such, the question of our knowing the grounds for such uncleanness in divorcees does not arise at all. Uncleanness will be committed by a divorcee if she/he remarries after divorce.

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Please note that when a man marries a prostitute, the latter becomes his wife. She is no longer a prostitute at all. A prostitute is one who is not married to any man.

This is not the biblical definition of a prostitute.

Please show me the Scriptures where a prostitute is defined if this is not the biblical definition of a prostitute.

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Porne - (1) a woman who sells her body for sexual uses; (2)a prostitute, a harlot, one who yields herself to defilement for the sake of gain; (3) any woman indulging in unlawful sexual intercourse, whether for gain or for lust; (4) metaph. an idolatress; of "Babylon" i.e. Rome, the chief seat of idolatry.

If a wife indulges in selling her body for a price, how will you call her? Will you call her an adulteress or a prostitute? Please tell me.

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Marriage was not an issue here. Her activity was what defined her as a prostitute or not. She may have been married and still been a temple prostitute for example, which means she was committing adultery also but that doesn't change the fact that she was considered a prostitute. Do you agree?

Activity does not define a prostitute. Please answer my previous question. It is only the status of the woman that defines prostitution. I cannot agree with you.

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How can you say that Hosea had absolutely no expectation that this woman would be true to the vow of sexual faithfuless? On what basis, you stated like this?

Just a little common sense. It the same thing when we advise folk on the forum. If you marry a man who was a drug addict for example, that walk down the aisle is not going to change it. Since you knew he was, it is foolish to expect him to change after your married. We see this happening enough to know it's not wise and I don't see Hosea as being anything other than a man who experiences the same emotions and thoughts. Does that make sense?

I have hundreds of testimonies of the transformation of the lives of drug addicts. A drug addict cannot change his life on his own. Never. Do you know that there is One who changes the lives of any hardcore criminal or drug addicts? Please show me from the book of Hosea how he experienced the same emotions and thoughts. I will come back and discuss. Goodnight.

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Why do you expect God not to give us an express word to marry a prostitute? A prostitute can be forgiven and restored. Any man can marry a prostitute to transform her pitiable life.

Would you advise this to any brother in your congregation who told you the Lord has instructed him to marry a prostitute? If you follow this train of thought, then I suppose you don't have a problem with a believer marrying an unbeliever in the hopes of transforming his/her life?

First of all, please note that the Holy Spirit does not instruct any man to marry or not to marry a prostitute. Jesus died for the prostitutes also. The Holy Spirit leads us to preach the gospel and to live like Jesus Christ in this world.

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Can you show me the particular verse from the book of Hosiah to prove that Gomer deserved divorce on the ground that she had committed adultery after marriage?

We both agreed in previous post that a man could divorce his wife on the grounds of sexual unfaithfulness during betrothal or after consummation. Therefore, there does not need to be a Scripture in Hosea making this point because it was in the law. He could have lawfully divorced her. Isn't that true?

How can you compare Gomer with the woman of Israel who was divorced on the grounds of sexual unfaithfulness during betrothal or after consummation. Gomer is a prophetic sign. Gomer was not divorced by Hosea whereas the Israeli women were divorced. How can you make a comparison between the two?

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Can you prove that Gomer had committed whoredom after her marriage to Hosea?

Hosea 1:3
So Hosea married Gomer, daughter of Diblaim. She became pregnant and had a son.
Hosea 3:2
So I brought her for 23 ounces of silver and 10 bushels of barley.

Gomer became pregnant because of Hosea who took her to be his wife. How can you say that she had committed whoredom after her marriage.

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This tell me they married and then she went out and had to be purchased back. If this is to be seen as the relationship between God and His people, then it would be clear Hosea was married first, just as God entered into a covenant with His people (Mt. Sinai) and then Gomer committed adultery, just as God accused His people of doing after they had entered into a marriage covenant with Him. I'm not 100% sure if these children were Hosea's or someone else's since God says to name them "Unloved" and "Not My People". This suggest to me that these were the children of adultery. At any rate, it seems to be that she continued in her prostitution after their marriage and needed to be redeemed (bought back). Do you agree with this?

In the first chapter of Hosea, Hosea took Gomer to be his wife and she conceived and bore a son. She was called a wife of harlotry. In the third chapter, we find ''a woman who is loved by a lover and is committing adultery, just like the love of the Lord for the children of Israel....So I bought her for mself for fifteen shekels of silver......" The second woman was bought with a price before her marriage with Hosea and not after her marriage. There was no need for Hosea to buy her after the marriage because she belonged to him. She was asked by Hosea to stay with him and not to play the harlotry. The Bible does not say that she again played the harlotry after Hosea bought her for a price.

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Though the Lord gave Israel the certificate of divorce, yet the Lord had not divorced her but forgave and restored her. After sending her away, the Lord restored her also...We cannot justify divorce under the Covenant of grace at all cost because God had not divorced His bride Israel under the Old Covenant.

In a previous post I addressed the issue of God divorcing Israel as a whole but will choose individuals to come into Christ. In that sense He will be restored to Israel (the individual but not the nation) Here Jeremiah 3:8, 14. Do you believe the whole nation of Israel will be restored to God and not the Remnant (just curious on this one)?

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First it is a misconception to believe that God asked Hosea to marry a prostitute. What the Book of Hosea actually says is "and the Lord said to Hosea Go take to you a woman of unfaithfulness, and children of unfaithfulness..." Ho. 1:2 (from the MT) The verb, from the root "zanah", used here is the same root I gave in an earlier post when quoting a NT Hebrew translation of Mt. 19 i.e. the unfaithfulness "exception".

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ORIGINAL: pickupyourmat

Am I to understand that Gomer was not an actual prostitute? I did look up the word and got the following:

Zanuwn - adultery, fornication, prostitution

So she could have been guilty of any of these acts, so she may not have been an actual prostitute?

I'm thinking that God would not have told Hosea to marry a woman of adultery because that would mean she was someone's wife (remembering that at that time a man could have multiple wives, so he was never guilty of adultery - it was only the unmarried man and married woman who could commit adultery). He would then be guilty and under the death penalty by law.

What do you think?

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ORIGINAL: benelchi

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ORIGINAL: pickupyourmat

Am I to understand that Gomer was not an actual prostitute? I did look up the word and got the following:

Zanuwn - adultery, fornication, prostitution

So she could have been guilty of any of these acts, so she may not have been an actual prostitute?

I'm thinking that God would not have told Hosea to marry a woman of adultery because that would mean she was someone's wife (remembering that at that time a man could have multiple wives, so he was never guilty of adultery - it was only the unmarried man and married woman who could commit adultery). He would then be guilty and under the death penalty by law.

What do you think?

Zanah actual has a much broader definition that even includes apostasy, and idolatry, but I think that from the context here it can be defined as some kind of sexual sin.

I think the bigger question is whether she had already in fact committed this sin when Hosea married her, or whether Hosea was told that she would, in the future, commit the sin of adultery. The biggest obstacle to the view that she had already sinned is that God told Hosea to also take "children of unfaithfulness", but there is no mention of any of Gomer's children prior to her marriage to Hosea, and it seems likely that two of his three children were illegitimate. In other words, sometime after Hosea's marriage to Gomer he did in fact end up having "children of unfaithfulness". If these are the children God told Hosea to take, but they were not even born when God told him to take them, then it would be equally valid to believe that God told Hosea to marry Gomer even though she would become an adulterer after the marriage but had not yet committed that sin.

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ORIGINAL: benelchi

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ORIGINAL: pickupyourmat

Am I to understand that Gomer was not an actual prostitute? I did look up the word and got the following:

Zanuwn - adultery, fornication, prostitution

So she could have been guilty of any of these acts, so she may not have been an actual prostitute?

I'm thinking that God would not have told Hosea to marry a woman of adultery because that would mean she was someone's wife (remembering that at that time a man could have multiple wives, so he was never guilty of adultery - it was only the unmarried man and married woman who could commit adultery). He would then be guilty and under the death penalty by law.

What do you think?

Do not make any guess here. Let us read what the Word of God tells about the status of Gomer. She was a harlot, then married by Hosea. The Bible does not call her a divorcee or the wife of someone else. Verse 7 of Chapter 2 says, ''She will chase her lovers, But not overtake them, Yes, she will seek them, but not find them, Then she will say, ''I will go and return to my first husband....." This is a prophetic message for the backsliding people of Israel who were worshipping idols in place of the living God. The first husband is the God of Israel. The whole book is prophetic in nature, warning the people of Israel and exhorting them to return to God, their original, first husband. The lost house of Israel is being restored to God under the New Covenant. What was lost during the Old Covenant is being restored to God under the New Covenant. No one can quote this wonderful book to prove divorce and remarriage. This book speaks against divorce and exhorts the people of Israel to return to their first husband. It can be prophetically applied to the situation of divorce and remarriage. The original spouse is the covenant spouse. If at all any divorced spouse seeks restoration of marriage, she or he has to return to the first original spouse for restoration.

Gomer was not someone's wife but was harlot. A harlot may be a married woman or the wife of someone but she has since taken to prostitution as her means of livelihood. It is possible. Harlotry is not adultery. Adultery is committed by a spouse whereas harlotry is practised by a harlot who does not remain in her own house under the care of her husband. But the Word of God does not say that Gomer was someone's wife before Hosea took her to be his wife.

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Zanah actual has a much broader definition that even includes apostasy, and idolatry, but I think that from the context here it can be defined as some kind of sexual sin.

I think the bigger question is whether she had already in fact committed this sin when Hosea married her, or whether Hosea was told that she would, in the future, commit the sin of adultery. The biggest obstacle to the view that she had already sinned is that God told Hosea to also take "children of unfaithfulness", but there is no mention of any of Gomer's children prior to her marriage to Hosea, and it seems likely that two of his three children were illegitimate. In other words, sometime after Hosea's marriage to Gomer he did in fact end up having "children of unfaithfulness". If these are the children God told Hosea to take, but they were not even born when God told him to take them, then it would be equally valid to believe that God told Hosea to marry Gomer even though she would become an adulterer after the marriage but had not yet committed that sin.

One thing is very clear. When Hosea married Gomer, the latter was a harlot and was not someone's wife. The book of Hosea should be read in right perspective, and not from any particular angle to suit our doctrines. Do you mean to say that Hosea married a divorcee who had practised harlotry just to justify divorce and remarriage? Even remotely, the message of this book does not apply to the situation of divorce and remarriage. In fact, it goes against the doctrine of divorce and remarriage. It has a message of exhortation to return to the first husband on restoration. ''She will chase her lovers, But not overtake them, Yes, she will seek them, but not find them, Then she will say, ''I will go and return to my first husband....." Who are the lovers of married spouses in the context of the New Testament? They are persons other than the covenant spouses. They chase lovers other than their covenant spouses. But they could not overtake them in truth and in righteousness. There are some remarried spouses who, after knowing the truth, did return to their original spouses on restoration. There are some remarried spouses who, after knowing the truth, could not return to their original spouses but have forsaken their adulterous relationship and live for God.

True, Gomer had committed harlotry when Gomer married her. Let us not add to the book of Hosea to say that she was a divorcee. Let us know the simple meaning of a divorcee. A divorcee need not be a harlot or one who has committed the sin of adultery or any sexual sin. Let us know the simple meaning of a harlot. A harlot is one who sells her body for a price and does not remain as the wife of someone else.

< Message edited by prophet_india -- 9/22/2007 3:20:02 AM >

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Wait on the Lord patiently for restoration of marriage. If you believe Him for restoration, God will make a way for you in the wilderness.


http://mychurch.org/gloryofhiscross

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ORIGINAL: Keabird

Was thinking recently about promises. Throughout the Bible we see how seriously God views people's promises - not only about marriage - and how we are also exhorted not to make foolish promises, but even if we do, there is an expectation that we will honour those promises. What happens when circumstances arise that cause us to have to make a choice about to whom we will keep our promise? What happens when keeping a promise will put life in danger? Or when it turns out that the promise physically can't be kept? (Again, not necessarily referring to marriage here.) At the times when we realize a foolish promise has been made, or that we can't realistically keep it, what help is there for us? Only the assurance that God has said if we confess our sins, He will forgive us and cleanse us from our sin. The sin can't be undone.

What matters here is not the seriousness of the marriage vows one makes at the time of Christian marriage. One can make a vow and then break it. No spouse is perfect. God forgives us our tresspasses or sins. If I make a vow and break it, then I have to seek forgiveness of the person with whom I have made this vow. If I have made a vow with God and break it, then I have to seek forgiveness from God. Breaking of a vow is wrong as it amounts to the breach of trust. It need not be an act of sin. It is wrongful and need not be sinful.

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The Bible in its entirety also teaches us that we must put God first. Nothing else is to come before Him. Sometimes that necessitates people confessing that they have made a foolish vow, and realize it would be wrong to keep it - that is, to keep it would mean they are putting the promise ahead of God's commandments. Again, I am not necessarily referring to marriage here, but to any promise.

I agree that we must put God first in our lives. If we put God first in our lives, or if we love God, we should obey His commandments. The words of Jesus Christ conveyed to the Pharisees were not in favour of remarriage after divorce, just because the abusive spouse could not honor the marriage vow. A vow cannot become foolish when one makes it. When it could not be fulfilled, then it becomes foolish. The marriage vows handed down to us by our forefathers are not foolish but are sacred and are based on the Word of God. One can make a tall promise which he or she could not fulfill later. What is wrong is not the promise itself but the way it is not fulfilled.

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That got me thinking, if someone breaks a promise, where does the promise stand? Seems to me the promise is broken. The breaking of it has nullified it. So in order for it to stand again, the person must renew the promise. In other words, make the promise again.

There are two persons involved in the making of a promise. One makes it and another accepts it. In a Christian marriage, both the husband and the wife make promises with each other in presence of the congregation, clergy and in presence of God. The promise broken by the spouse concerned. If one of the spouses breaks this promise, then again the spouse concerned can renew it. If it is renewed as rightly pointed out by you, it need not be nullified. For instance, I am staying in a house on payment of rent after entering into a contract with the landlord/owner of the house. Then I am renewing this contract for another couple of years. If it is a renewal, the promise is not nullified. Though many misunderstanding and bickerings may arise in the marriage life, yet, the couple can renew their promises made at the time of their marriage and can live with each other with longsuffering, love and faith.

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So, following that thought, perhaps the real issue in this debate about whether people are obligated to the promise they made in a first marriage is whether it is right or not that they renew their original promise that was broken. And that brings us back to the circular argument that keeps going around and around in this thread: that since the first promise, new promises may have been made, impacting on new lives and unsaved souls. To renew the first, which was broken, may mean breaking the new promises also. Oh, what to do? Which choice will put God first?

This thread does not deal with the Christian marriage vows but the issue of remarriage after divorce. The breaking of the promise at the time of the first marriage does not justify remarriage by way of another set of promises to be made at the time of second or third or fourth marriages. Which new promises you are referring to here? Are these promises made at the time of second marriage? There is no sanctity of promises made at the time of second marriage after divorce which is not recognized as a valid marriage in the Word of God. If we have to put God first, then we have to honor the ever first promise made at the time of original marriage in His presence. The Lord's presence cannot be invoked on the occasion of a second marriage after divorce because God does not recognize this adulterous relationship as a marriage.

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The past can't be undone. One must seek the Lord about how to approach a situation which involves broken promises.

Yes, the past cannot be undone. The remarried spouse cannot go to her original covenant spouse who has got since married. But the remarried spouse cannot live in the sin of adultery if she has to put God first in her life. Of course, it will be a life of cross-bearing if she has to forsake her present mate.

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It is clear to me that God forgives us for sin when we ask. The sin of making a foolish vow, or breaking a vow, should not become a bondage for us. God forgives those sins too. To tell people that if they have broken a promise, they MUST renew the broken promise in order to be accepted by God- no matter who else it is going to affect - comes across to me as bondage and legalism, NOT mercy and justice. And yet we know that God is both merciful and just, and calls us to be also.

As already mentioned by me, making a promise and then breaking it is not sinful but wrongful. There are many non-Christian marriages during which no such vows are made by the spouses concerned. Do you mean to say that since no such vows are made during such marriages, the spouses are free to divorce and to remarry? God shows His mercy to those remarried persons if they repent. He is a God of justice and righteousness. He cannot tolerate sin in His House. He is a God of judgement. Judgment begins at the House of God.

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It remains to be seen that there are thousands and thousands of people walking with the Lord who have for whatever reason left their original marriage vows, and yet God has forgiven them because they sought Him, and He continues to pour out His blessing on their lives, even blessing second marriages after there has been divorce.

Maybe, thousands of people of God have left their original marriage vows and God does forgive them. Do you mean to say that God condones their sin if they remarry after divorce? What do you mean by ''His blessings on their lives''? The remarried couples may be known for their devotional lives, worshipping God and praying together. They may be even doing wonderful ministries of preaching the gospel. But their testimony of living with other persons' spouses does not glorify God but brings about His judgment on them. God's blessings do not mean some material prosperity, peace at home between the remarried couple, happier times after remarriage. You should know the meaning of "blessedness" in the sight of God.

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God says, "I desire mercy, not sacrifice." Could it be that those who think divorced/remarried people should discard their new vows to re-make previously broken vows are in fact, demanding sacrifice rather than showing mercy? Who are we to tell God where to show mercy, or assume where He will show it?

Yes, God desires mercy on His people, and do not want their sacrifices being made by way of their worship, offerings, ministries, etc. He wants obedience and not sacrifice.

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Finally, to ask a person to re-make a broken promise MAY be the same as asking them to make a foolish vow. Only God knows what is best for a situation.

One need not make any promises at all. A husband has to love his wife and the wife has to submit to her husband. I am talking of the relationship between the original husband and the original wife, and not between the remarried couple. You are only talking of legalism of making vows which the spouses concerned are not able to fulfill. God has given us His word and we have to obey Him at any cost.

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There has been discussion going about Hosea's situation. I find it interesting that at one point, God told Hosea to retrieve Gomer. We then read that he got her back out of slavery, or something like that, and took her back to his home to be his wife again. We don't see that God condemned him for putting her away in the first place because of her adultery! God allowed Hosea to put her away. Hosea then heard from the Lord what to do next. If for whatever reason, God had led Hosea to leave her in slavery, then we'd be accepting that was okay for him to do, because we believe the Bible that Hosea was listening to God at the time. We know that God used Hosea to show us an analogy of Israel's unfaithfulness and how God dealt with it, and His love for Israel. My point here is that Hosea needed to hear directly from the LORD what to do. As do we all when faced with difficult situations.

Please read my post concerning the prophetic message in the book of Hosea. Please note that God had not divorced Israel and chosen another bride for Him in her place.

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Wait on the Lord patiently for restoration of marriage. If you believe Him for restoration, God will make a way for you in the wilderness.


http://mychurch.org/gloryofhiscross

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ORIGINAL: huckfinn327

From Whence Commeth Polygamy and Divorce?

This is a very important consideration,
What is the origin of these two institutions?
Scripture clearly identifies the origin of polygamy.
It’s inventor was the wicked Lamech:
Gen 4:19 And Lamech took unto him two wives;
Some believe Lamech to be the first Anti-Christ.

But polygamy was expensive.
Man needed a better institution.
Some new Lamech solved the problem:
Divorce and a so called “new-marriage” was invented.
And it remains the most popular form of Polygamy today.

Huck’s study finds the first written legal divorce regulation;
Recorded before the life time of Abraham, 600 years before Moses.
Found in the Ur of the Chaldees in the Kingdom of Ur Nammu 2050 BC.
“If a man divorces his primary wife, he must pay her one mina of silver.” (CU-6)
Divorce was an ancient invention of man and NOT of God.
Moses had to deal with it because it was practiced by all mankind,

And it appears that Moses suffered it because the hardness of man’s heart,
Was beyond regulation in this area … Moses also suffered polygamy.
Jer. 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked,
Who can know it?
Jesus forbade polygamy (they twain shall be one flesh);
Jesus forbade divorce with remarriage:
Mar 10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.


Since polygamy and divorce was practiced "universerally" prior to Moses .... and Moses suffered to permit both in the Law ... this DOES NOT justify polygamy and divorce in God's eyes in any way ... God uses many anthropomorphic (human characteristic) terms to describe Himself ... In Jer.3:1 God chose the metaphor of divorce to describe His relationship with Israel ... Nevertheless in Jer. 3:14 God who divorced Isreal was yet "remained married" to Israel by the unconditional Abrahamic Covenant (Which God by His word could not divorce her)... God by using anthropomorphic terms of marriage/divorce does not LITERALLY make God a divorcee... Jer 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you:

I am also "always" surprised when those who rely on allegorical and mystical hermeunitics (rules of interpretation) get so LITERAL ... over God metaphorically divorcing Israel ... Divorce is a man-made institution ... it has no origins with God. Example of a metaphor: When my mother threatened to skin me alive ... she was not threatening to kill me now was she. I'm going to skin you alive ... My mother could not skin me alive but she could say it...Jesus spoke in many parables

All for His Glory ... Huckfinn

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Do not make any guess here. Let us read what the Word of God tells about the status of Gomer. She was a harlot, then married by Hosea. The Bible does not call her a divorcee or the wife of someone else.

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ORIGINAL: benelchi

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Do not make any guess here. Let us read what the Word of God tells about the status of Gomer. She was a harlot, then married by Hosea. The Bible does not call her a divorcee or the wife of someone else.

What you have told us that the Word of God says, goes well beyond what it actually does say. The only thing we are really told about the status of Gomer prior to her marriage to Hosea is in Vs. 1:2 i.e. "Go, take to yourself an adulterous wife and children of unfaithfulness", NIV. A literal translation of the MT would be "Go, Take to you a woman of unfaithfulness and children of unfaithfulness".

Thanks for your clarifications which I deeply appreciate.

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Let's start by looking at this verse to see what we can learn. The important terms here are "ishet zanunim" i.e. "woman of unfaithfulness", and "yaldey zanunim" i.e. "children of unfaithfulness". An important grammer note here is that the construct noun followed by the term zanunim is used only five times in the OT, all in the book of Hosea. The normal term for a prostitute is "ishah zanuah", (note the lack of a construct here i.e. ishah, not ishet along with a different form of the noun). For those unfamiliar with Hebrew, the construct form of a noun is a grammatical method for showing that something belongs to something else. Some examples would be "beit David" i.e. "The house of David" or "David's House". "ishet David" i.e. "Woman of David" or David's wife. The "New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology & EXegesis, Vol 1" contains a three page article on the usage of Znh in ancient Hebrew and its ancient Near Eastern derivatives. The following quote is from that article "The most common and important usage of the root znh is metaphorical. Since it referred to illicit sex, especially in violation of a covenantal relationship (betrothal or marriage), it could be used to refer to covenantal unfaithfulness on Israel's part"

Thanks. All harlots fall under the category of ''a woman of unfaithfulness'' But all women of unfaithfulness are not harlots.

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In putting all of this together let's start by looking a the term "Children of unfaithfulness"". Does this mean "Children who were a product of an illicit sexual relationship", or "Children who practice illicit sexual relationships?" Did these children exist prior to Hosea and Gomer's marriage, or were these the children, mentioned in the text, who were conceived after the marriage? Looking at this verse in the context of the rest of the book, I personally believe the best answer to these questions is that the children were the product of an illicit relationship that happened after the Hosea and Gomer's marriage, i.e "Lo Ami", and "Lo, Ruhamah". Looking now at the term "woman of unfaithfulness" we must ask the same questions i.e Does this mean "a woman who was the product of an illicit sexual relationship", or "a woman who practices illicit sexual relationships?", and did this illicit sexual relationship exist before or after Hosea and Gomer's marriage? Some possibilities here are that she could have been the child conceived from an adulterous relationship, She could have been the daughter of a prostitute, She could have been practicing adultery or prostitution, or this could be a prophetic statement about the choices she would make in the future. My personal belief again by looking at this verse in the context of the rest of the book is this was a prophetic statement about the future choices that Gomer would make after her marriage, choice that scripture makes clear she did end up choosing.

Very good! The word of God is very clear about the birth of children to Hosea and Gomer. Verses 3 and 6 say that Gomer conceived after Hosea took her. God commanded Hosea to take himself a wife of harlotry (unfaithfulness) and children of harlotry, for the land has committed great harlotry by departing from the Lord. Then Hosea took Gomer and she conceived and bore him a son. I believe that these children were born to them out of the sexual union between Hosea and Gomer. Coming to the third chapter, the Lord said to Hosea, ''Go again, love a woman who is loved by a lover and is committing adultery, just like thelove of the Lord for the children of israel, who look to other gods and love the raisin cakes of the pagans''. I believe this passage refers to another woman than Gomer. Please note the word ''again'' here. Hosea bought this woman for a price, and commanded her to stay with him for many days, not to play the harlot or to have another man.

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The point of all of this is show that it is important not to confuse our personal interpretation of the Word of God as being equal to the Word of God itself. Some may ask, do some interpretations have greater merit that other? Absolutely. When an interpretation goes outside the grammatical and contextual possibilities of the passage from which it was taken, it should be dismissed; however, when an interpretation is within the boundaries we know from scripture, then we need to weigh all of the evidence to decided what we believe is the best interpretation, being careful to check our own heart and motives for choosing one interpretation over another. When we know that other possible interpretations exist within the boundaries of scripture, I think it is important that we don't let our own dogma cause us to ignore the validity of an interpretation for which we might not agree.

I agree with you entirely in this regard. Gomer or the other woman is presented as a harlot who is a woman of unfaithfulness. The nation of Israel is compared to this woman.

_____________________________

Wait on the Lord patiently for restoration of marriage. If you believe Him for restoration, God will make a way for you in the wilderness.


http://mychurch.org/gloryofhiscross

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In your previous post prophet you sway in your doctrine all who read your post can see this you have been talking out two sides of your mouth saying one thing then saying another bringing much confusion to the people in the body of christ. Do you sway by the wind in every doctrine you preach? Just curious.

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ORIGINAL: huckfinn327

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ORIGINAL: huckfinn327

From Whence Commeth Polygamy and Divorce?

This is a very important consideration,
What is the origin of these two institutions?
Scripture clearly identifies the origin of polygamy.
It’s inventor was the wicked Lamech:
Gen 4:19 And Lamech took unto him two wives;
Some believe Lamech to be the first Anti-Christ.

But polygamy was expensive.
Man needed a better institution.
Some new Lamech solved the problem:
Divorce and a so called “new-marriage” was invented.
And it remains the most popular form of Polygamy today.

Huck’s study finds the first written legal divorce regulation;
Recorded before the life time of Abraham, 600 years before Moses.
Found in the Ur of the Chaldees in the Kingdom of Ur Nammu 2050 BC.
“If a man divorces his primary wife, he must pay her one mina of silver.” (CU-6)
Divorce was an ancient invention of man and NOT of God.
Moses had to deal with it because it was practiced by all mankind,

And it appears that Moses suffered it because the hardness of man’s heart,
Was beyond regulation in this area … Moses also suffered polygamy.
Jer. 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked,
Who can know it?
Jesus forbade polygamy (they twain shall be one flesh);
Jesus forbade divorce with remarriage:
Mar 10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.


Since polygamy and divorce was practiced "universerally" prior to Moses .... and Moses suffered to permit both in the Law ... this DOES NOT justify polygamy and divorce in God's eyes in any way ... God uses many anthropomorphic (human characteristic) terms to describe Himself ... In Jer.3:1 God chose the metaphor of divorce to describe His relationship with Israel ... Nevertheless in Jer. 3:14 God who divorced Isreal was yet "remained married" to Israel by the unconditional Abrahamic Covenant (Which God by His word could not divorce her)... God by using anthropomorphic terms of marriage/divorce does not LITERALLY make God a divorcee... Jer 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you:

I am also "always" surprised when those who rely on allegorical and mystical hermeunitics (rules of interpretation) get so LITERAL ... over God metaphorically divorcing Israel ... Divorce is a man-made institution ... it has no origins with God. Example of a metaphor: When my mother threatened to skin me alive ... she was not threatening to kill me now was she. I'm going to skin you alive ... My mother could not skin me alive but she could say it...Jesus spoke in many parables

All for His Glory ... Huckfinn

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ORIGINAL: fallcolors

I can not believe what I am reading here. Some here are adding to the word of God words that Jesus never said AT ALL nor will you find these words in the NT. prophet please show me where Jesus demands this formal divorce as you say from a remarriage? Jesus did say go and sin no more. He also said he did not condemn this woman. Yet you give her Instructions? So where are these added words that you added in here for Jesus saying He has said to formally divorce in a remarriage? One is to repent, repentance is enough when one does not continue in the same sin. The sexual relations must be abandon and that is it! That is what the sin was. Did it ever occur to you that every believer is this adulterous woman who also lived in sin? When you were forgiven Jesus told you and everyone of us to sin no more. Do you sin everyday? Do you have thoughts in your mind that are sin? Are you without sin? Are you perfect? Jesus fulfilled the law yet you lay the law down on people? God forbid! In your previous post prophet you sway in your doctrine all who read your post can see this you have been talking out two sides of your mouth saying one thing then saying another bringing much confusion to the people in the body of christ. Do you sway by the wind in every doctrine you preach? Just curious.

Pr 30:6 Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.

http://preceptaustin.org/sermon_on_the_mount_7.htm

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ORIGINAL: fallcolors

"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." (Rev. 22:18-19)

How can anyone read the preceding without recognizing the immense importance the LORD has placed on His word? God promised to severely punish anyone who adds to His word. Worse, He promised to expunge those who would take away from His words, from the book of life! In this light, should we not highly value the Holy word of the living God?

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ORIGINAL: fallcolors

I can not believe what I am reading here. Some here are adding to the word of God words that Jesus never said AT ALL nor will you find these words in the NT. prophet please show me where Jesus demands this formal divorce as you say from a remarriage?

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Jesus did say go and sin no more. He also said he did not condemn this woman. Yet you give her Instructions? So where are these added words that you added in here for Jesus saying He has said to formally divorce in a remarriage?

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One is to repent, repentance is enough when one does not continue in the same sin. The sexual relations must be abandon and that is it! That is what the sin was.

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Did it ever occur to you that every believer is this adulterous woman who also lived in sin? When you were forgiven Jesus told you and everyone of us to sin no more. Do you sin everyday? Do you have thoughts in your mind that are sin? Are you without sin? Are you perfect? Jesus fulfilled the law yet you lay the law down on people? God forbid!

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Adultery by definition is the sin of having sexual relations with someone who one is not married to, while being married to someone else. Therefore it is not a "divorce" in God's court dissolving the adulterous relationship in the world's courts. Doing so is just formally and publicly repenting of what God had called a sin all along. There never was a marriage there in God's eyes, only two people engaging in an adulterous affair, so it would be necessary to formally and legally declare that affair to be over in order to repent of that sin.