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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/5/2008 12:16:36 PM
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SealedEternal
Posts: 1228
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Jesus couldn't have stated any clearer that "EVERYONE who divorces and remarries commits adultery" so anyone who tries to make the text suggest anything other than that are twisting His Word. Every literal translation of His Word agrees that this is the proper translation of the verse in its context, and any attempts to say otherwise are changing His Word to acheive a predetermined outcome to turn the meaning into the opposite of what He said.
SealedEternal
< Message edited by SealedEternal -- 3/5/2008 12:26:11 PM >
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/5/2008 12:37:22 PM
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LBolt
Posts: 797
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Hey, bubba, I agree with you, however if you spouse consistently cheats on you, you have a grounds for divorce. I don't know if you'll be called an adulterer if you, the desposed spoused who was cheated upon, meet someone else and marry.
Don't make issues out of nothing.
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/5/2008 2:42:05 PM
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SealedEternal
Posts: 1228
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: Milwaukee, WI
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
Hey, bubba, I agree with you, however if you spouse consistently cheats on you, you have a grounds for divorce. I don't know if you'll be called an adulterer if you, the desposed spoused who was cheated upon, meet someone else and marry.
Don't make issues out of nothing.
Jesus says the "desposed spoused who was cheated upon" will be an adulterer if they remarry and so will the person who marries them:
Matthew 5:31-32 "It was said, 'WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE'; but I say to you that EVERYONE who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and WHOEVER marries a divorced woman commits adultery. "
Mark 10: 6-12 "But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE. "FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. "What therefore God has joined together, LET NO MAN SEPARATE." In the house the disciples began questioning Him about this again. And He *said to them, "WHOEVER divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."
Luke 16:18 "EVERYONE who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.”
It is an issue because God has made Himself clear, and also stated that those who are in adulterous relationships and don't repent will not come to know Him, not become His child, and not inherit His Kingdom:
Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, NOR ADULTERERS, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such WERE some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
1 John 3:7-10 Little children, MAKE SURE NO ONE DECEIVES YOU; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother
1 John 2:3-6 By this WE KNOW that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
Matthew 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I NEVER KNEW YOU; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
SealedEternal
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/5/2008 2:45:44 PM
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stellaluna
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Why do you have to yell?
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/5/2008 3:21:11 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1511
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quote:
Yes, SealedEternal. I think, after reading all the bible has to say on MDR, you are right. I read the resources at Cadz.net.
Hello Losing,
You said the above, then said:
quote:
I don't believe that you are in a perpetual statement of adultery, though. I don't believe the bible says that ANYWHERE.
Either the Word of God teaches that what God joined together remains intact, or the Bible does not teach that and whatsoever God has joined together CAN be ripped apart and joined with another----outside of death---with God's blessings. So, if you do believe the relationship God has called adultery is adultery, then you cannot then believe it ok for such relationships to continue----because the parties are ALREADY married to other persons in the eyes of the Lord.
quote:
When we give up on something (giving up on a marriage, per se, would be divorce) then we are saying that something is beyond God, aren't we?? I mean, if we truly believe He is a God of miracles, second chances, resurrection, then we must believe He can raise any and all from the dead - including those of us walking in sin (death) and including those marriages that are in death (not in the physical sense, but in other senses).
It would be so nice to say otherwise, but it's just not the case - yes, even in the cases that hurt our hearts so much because we would love for our spouses, friends, family or selves to be safe or saved from so much pain.
Yes, you are very right. Many think they have great faith for OTHER things, but find that when it comes to an erring spouse, they somehow do not believe God has the power to enlighten and give a heart of repentance to such a spouse. Instead, they believe it God's will to "move on" and get another spouse who is "better".........unfortunately, most of those replacements are not "better", but worse (hence the much higher divorce rate of 2nd, 3rd, 4th marriages).
quote:
And if divorce is a sin because it is breaking the commandment not to do it for any other reason, then to commit divorce with a second marriage would also be sin. But no where is a perpetual state of sin spoken of as some would say. So, if it's sola scriptura.. then, we have to go what the Word says and not add to it.
The men of Ezra divorced their wives out of repentance/obedience to the Lord. In such cases where the marriages were sinful, it was NOT sin to divorce. When we read "I hate divorce", in Mal. 2, it is in regards to those spouses that GOD joined a person to. God does not join people into what He has called adultery.
quote:
I think once we turn to God, admit what we've (general "us", meaning believers, not me) done now that our eyes have opened, respectively, the Lord has mercy on us and forgives us. I don't think or see anywhere that He requires reparation (i.e. divorce) from a second marriage. I think teaching that is a sin in itself, if it causing our brothers to stumble into sin - really anything that causes our brothers to stumble is a sin, isn't it?
I personally believe teaching people to remain in relationships the Lord has called adultery is causing the brethren to sin/stumble----and we shall be held accountable for telling others it is ok to stay in sinful unions. Nowhere in God's Word do we see His approval on those marriages contracted unlawfully. If we do not find His approval on such relationships, but instead see Him saying that such persons are ALREADY married to another(that's why He says it is adultery to marry another), then how can we encourage people to stay in adultery----believing the Grace of God somehow wipes away the union He joined together? Considering the admonishments of Paul (to the brethren)---- the unrighteous WILL inherit the kingdom, it is a weighty thing to say what the Lord has called sin is NOT really sin, but ok to continue in.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/5/2008 8:00:52 PM
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bjay0801
Posts: 113
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Jesus said in case of infidelity, do not put your wife away. so far, unless I missed one or two, a lot of people have missed that. By your interpretation, Sealed, God has also commmited adultery according to Jeremiah 3:8
And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
As you can see, God divorced israel because of her adultery to Him. This scripture does go on to say that if Israel and Judah repent, then He would take them back again, but what if that spouse does not repent? Or worse what if one spouse is an abuser? What then?
Eph 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Is the abusing husband loving their wives as Christ loved the church? Also remember that Jesus was going against the oral law of the pharisees that taught that a husband could divorce his wife for almost anything. Adultery according to them could have included burning the food. That is the context that Jesus was speaking in.
_____________________________
O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/5/2008 8:33:31 PM
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SealedEternal
Posts: 1228
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: Milwaukee, WI
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bjay0801
Jesus said in case of infidelity, do not put your wife away. so far, unless I missed one or two, a lot of people have missed that. By your interpretation, Sealed, God has also commmited adultery according to Jeremiah 3:8
And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
First of all His "marriage" to Israel was symbolic and shouldn't be used as an excuse to nulify His clear and specific commandments regarding marriage. I still think He was following his own marriage law however by giving her a writ of divorce for infidelity during the betrothal which is what the Old Covenant Law permitted. His relationship to her was still in the betrothal stage symbolically because they were bound together by covenant but living separate from one another. Secondly, If you read the rest of the chapter it states that He is waiting for His betrothed wife to return to Him and wants to be reconciled, so He has not forsaken His wife despite her sins.
Beyond all of this the New Testament teaches absolutely clearly that we are joined for life by God in marriage and cannot break that bond except by death, and that any attempt to do so and subsequently remarry is adultery. Therefore you cannot contradict clear and irrefutable New Testament commandments with speculative assertions about Old Testament symbolism, since the Bible has absolutely clear commandments to refute those assertions:
Genesis 2:22-24 The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. The man said, "This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man." For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.
Malachi 2:13-17 "This is another thing you do: you cover the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping and with groaning, because He no longer regards the offering or accepts it with favor from your hand. "Yet you say, 'For what reason?' Because the LORD has been a witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant. "But not one has done so who has a remnant of the Spirit And what did that one do while he was seeking a godly offspring? Take heed then to your spirit, and let no one deal treacherously against the wife of your youth. "For I HATE DIVORCE," says the LORD, the God of Israel, "and him who covers his garment with wrong," says the LORD of hosts. "So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously." You have wearied the LORD with your words Yet you say, "How have we wearied Him?" In that you say, "Everyone who does evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and He delights in them," or, "Where is the God of justice?"
Matthew 5:31-33 "It was said, 'WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE';but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery."Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FALSE VOWS, BUT SHALL FULFILL YOUR VOWS TO THE LORD.'
Matthew 19:4-6 And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?"So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."
Mark 10:5-12 But Jesus said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment."But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE."FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER,AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh."What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." In the house the disciples began questioning Him about this again. And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her;and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."
Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery."
1 Corinthians 7:10-13 But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife. But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away.
I Corinthians 7:39 A wife is bound as long as her husband lives; but if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.
Romans 7:2-3 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
Ephesians 5:22-32 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, because we are members of His body. FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.
SealedEternal
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/5/2008 10:34:15 PM
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DinaS
Posts: 65
Joined: 3/5/2008
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hello I am Dina. I am divorced. This forum has a lot of judgmental people who have not walked in our shoes. I recommend this book:
Confessons of a Good Christian Girl by Tammy Maltby
Read the chapter "It should Have Been Forever". It speaks the words of grace and hope for those who have been divorced. It doesnt condone divorce and it does not condemn people who are already divorced and hurting. There is a beautiful story of Jesus and the Samiritian woman at the well. There is hope and healing and grace for those of us who walk this road. It is not about dotting every "I" and crossing every "T" in the theology of divorce in the Bible. In fact, Jesus condemned those who did this more than He did anyone else. He didnt scream Scripture at the woman at the well who had 5 husband, but spoke grace and healing. We dont have all the answers. Remarriage is a reality for many. Jesus still loves the divorced and remarried . I am not about to get into the babbling nonsense here. I post this so that anyone reading the posts like the one above, that only shout condemnation, to show them the grace and tender love of our Lord. Love, Dina
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/5/2008 11:19:32 PM
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Jude4
Posts: 146
Joined: 1/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DinaS
hello I am Dina. I am divorced. This forum has a lot of judgmental people who have not walked in our shoes. I recommend this book:
Confessons of a Good Christian Girl by Tammy Maltby
Read the chapter "It should Have Been Forever". It speaks the words of grace and hope for those who have been divorced. It doesnt condone divorce and it does not condemn people who are already divorced and hurting. There is a beautiful story of Jesus and the Samiritian woman at the well. There is hope and healing and grace for those of us who walk this road. It is not about dotting every "I" and crossing every "T" in the theology of divorce in the Bible. In fact, Jesus condemned those who did this more than He did anyone else. He didnt scream Scripture at the woman at the well who had 5 husband, but spoke grace and healing. We dont have all the answers. Remarriage is a reality for many. Jesus still loves the divorced and remarried . I am not about to get into the babbling nonsense here. I post this so that anyone reading the posts like the one above, that only shout condemnation, to show them the grace and tender love of our Lord. Love, Dina
Posting the scriptures in bold is "shouting condemnation?" The grace and tender love of the Lord, have nothing to do with a belief, that is contrary to what Jesus, and the Apostles, have revealed to all of mankind. The scriptures are "of no private interpretation", which means that there is no room for individuals to interpret scripture, so as to favor their own particular circumstances. If we would allow many opinions to all be true, then that would make the scriptures to be of "private interpretation." Jesus said that the creational order of marriage is the law of his Kingdom. If one chooses not to obey, or rather, chooses an opinion that is contrary to the creational order of marriage, they do it to their own peril, and in contradiction to what Jesus has said. All of Jesus teaching, which is the gospel message of His kingdom, can be summed up in the law of love, as Jesus defined it. Here is a clear example of the way to eternal life.
And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
(Luk 10:25-28)
Clearly these two royal commands, are the spirit, and law, of the Gospel, according to the Lord of the universe. This does not guarantee that ones covenant spouse will obey this teaching, but we must remain faithful to our vow before the Lord, and our spouse, as a witness to them, and for the sake of righteousness. Peter says that if the saints suffer for doing good, this is commendable with God. To remain steadfast in honoring the vow of marriage, is commanded by the Lord Jesus, under the two royal laws of His kingdom. The testimony of righteousness, through honoring the covenant of marriage before God, may be the only witness left, that will cause a wayward spouse to be convicted. The saints must certainly refuse to return evil for evil. Jesus said that they are "no more twain, but one flesh." The Greek phrase for "no more twain" is (never again, not any longer). The only specific exception is death, and nothing else this side of eternity.
_____________________________
REV 21:7-8
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/6/2008 5:34:33 AM
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car2ner
Posts: 2539
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quote:
Why do you have to yell?
He usually does that, big and bold and dark. Sometimes it is in color. It is always the same thing.
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"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/6/2008 9:36:44 AM
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lastblast
Posts: 1511
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Dina,
There IS grace for those who are hurting. However, God's Grace is NOT given so we can enter into sin and then excuse it away, saying God's Grace covers that sin. His Grace is given so that we can ESCAPE the bondage of sin----something the unsaved do not have the power to do.
God's Word clearly teaches us adulterers will not inherit the kingdom of God. God's Word also clearly teaches us those who divorce AND marry others are committing adultery(because in God's eyes a divorce does not sever what HE joined together). To say it is NOT sin to do so---to commit adultery by joining with someone who is not one's spouse in God's eyes---- is to reject what Jesus has spoken contrarywise.
Jesus taught us that those who truly love Him will obey Him and His commandments will not be grievous to them. He also taught us that "whosoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whosoever loses his life for my sake shall save it". When He comes (or we die), will we be found as one who has died to self so that Christ can live through us, or will we be found in appearance as living life no differently than the "lost" world?
One other thing concerning the "law"............On that day----the day of judgment, Jesus teaches us that MANY will come in His name saying, "Lord, Lord" (professors of Christ)..........yet, He says "depart from me, you worker of lawlessness". See, those who practice lawlessness (living in adultery is certainly practicing lawlessness) will be rejected by Jesus---no matter what good "works" they did upon the earth in His name. Very sobering.............
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/6/2008 9:41:09 AM
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SealedEternal
Posts: 1228
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: Milwaukee, WI
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DinaS
hello I am Dina. I am divorced. This forum has a lot of judgmental people who have not walked in our shoes. I recommend this book:
Confessons of a Good Christian Girl by Tammy Maltby
Read the chapter "It should Have Been Forever". It speaks the words of grace and hope for those who have been divorced. It doesnt condone divorce and it does not condemn people who are already divorced and hurting.
I'm not here to condemn anyone, but rather to share God's Word to people who He refers to as adulterers in order that they may repent and make Him their Lord. He says that we cannot come to know Him unless we acknowledge our enslavement to sin and are willing to allow him to free us from it, so the first step must involve showing people what their sin is. He is clear that if we are not willing to turn from such sins, that we will never come to know Him and cannot become His child or enter his kingdom.
I presented His Word and you accuse me of condemnation? If anyone is condemning here it is Him not me. Then you recommend that people ignore His Words and instead read a book by some woman who apparently embraces what He condemns? I would rather stand on His Word than on Tammy's and recommend that others do the same. The way that we find grace and hope is by making Him the Lord of our lives so that He can dwell in our hearts and free us from sins such as adultery, it is not by reading books that comfort us while living in adultery.
quote:
There is a beautiful story of Jesus and the Samiritian woman at the well. There is hope and healing and grace for those of us who walk this road.
Actually Jesus did condemn the woman at the well and did point out to her that she was in rebellion against her Creator, and therefore implied to her that she had to cease from her sin. That is the same message I am giving here that you are calling "condemning."
quote:
It is not about dotting every "I" and crossing every "T" in the theology of divorce in the Bible. In fact, Jesus condemned those who did this more than He did anyone else.
No, Jesus and His apostles spoke the very message that I am presenting to you. What you call condemnation they called the Gospel. The only people He condemned were the religious hypocrites who used the Law to prop themselves up, but He never condemned anyone who shared His truths out of love. It is love to show a person their sin and encourage them to make Christ their Lord so He can free them from it.
quote:
He didnt scream Scripture at the woman at the well who had 5 husband, but spoke grace and healing. We dont have all the answers. Remarriage is a reality for many.
Lots of things are a reality because we are by nature wicked sinners, but that doesn't make it alright. He wants us to turn from our sins and make Him our Lord, and we can only do so if we admit that our sin is sin and are willing to turn from it. Jesus did tell the woman at the well that she was a sinner and did therefore imply that she needed to be freed from her sin. His grace and "healing" is from our enslavement to sin in order that we can become His children, it is not to comfort us to live in our sin.
quote:
Jesus still loves the divorced and remarried . I am not about to get into the babbling nonsense here. I post this so that anyone reading the posts like the one above, that only shout condemnation, to show them the grace and tender love of our Lord. Love, Dina
I'm sorry that you regard His Word as condemning, but you cannot find His grace and tender love unless you are willing to accept Him as Lord first. Once you do that you will see that His commandments are loving and are not burdensome, but are designed to protect us and those around us.
SealedEternal
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/6/2008 9:50:03 AM
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SealedEternal
Posts: 1228
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: Milwaukee, WI
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
quote:
Why do you have to yell?
He usually does that, big and bold and dark. Sometimes it is in color. It is always the same thing.
I present God's Word in bold because His Words are the only ones who matter, and mankind has this tremendous propensity to gloss right over His Words and deny exactly what He says to rationalize his or her own lifestyle. When I present His Word this way it becomes more difficult to deny and causes those who desire to do so to be convicted, and rather that adhering to what He says they attack the messenger and try to stop him from presenting God's Words in such a manner, as to avoid accepting His message. It is God who is yelling this important message to mankind in a day that adultery among other sins has become widely accepted.
SealedEternal
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/6/2008 9:54:45 AM
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LBolt
Posts: 797
Joined: 11/30/2007
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I'm going to recant my earlier position when I agreed with Sealeternal, bjay gave an excellent response. I'm going to quote from my True Name Edition Bible which pretty much agrees with what we are saying.
Matt. 19:8-9: "He said to them, Moshe because of the hardness of your levim allowed you to put away your wives: but from the beginning and from eternity it was not so.
And I say to you, Whoever shall divorce his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, commits adultery: and whoever marries her who has not yet been divorced does commit adultery."
The footnote reads: "Aramaic Peshitta uses the word "shbikta" meaning undivorced, or not yet put away. This lines up with Torah more so than the Greek versions of the Renewed Covenant, which seem to forbid any kind of remarriage. The Aramaic allows for remarriage, as does Torah, but not until a full and legal divorce of any prior marriage has taken place. This prevents remarriage before a prior marriage has been dissolved."
If we were to go by your error-filled, condescending interpretation of what the Bible says about divorce and remarriage, we could say that people who have remarried are in a adulterous relationship. What about the spouse who is constantly abused or mistreated in a marriage? Can she/or he have any relief or peace? Do they have to stay shackled to this person? Do you know there has been murders commited by an abusive spouse because the abused felt or were told they had to "stick it out" in a marriage? Do you know how many children have been in sexually abusive situations in which the spouse, trying to "follow scriptures" did not leave that person and the kids are scarred for life?
"Matthew 5:31-33 "It was said, 'WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE';but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery."Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FALSE VOWS, BUT SHALL FULFILL YOUR VOWS TO THE LORD.'"
I'm sorry God's uses the literal marriage to teach our spiritual marriage with Him. Get your facts correct and stop posting condescending erroreneous blogs for the sakes of immature married believers who read these posts.
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/6/2008 10:14:09 AM
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SealedEternal
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The Mosaic exception in Deuteronomy 24 was for premarital fornication according to the text, and was confirmed by Jesus as just that. The Law of marriage is and always has been that a man and woman are bound by God for life at the point of marriage, and cannot be separated except by death, and this is in both covenants and from the beginning. In Old testament marriages however the marriage covenant was made well in advance of the actual marriage, and therefore the two were regarded as husband and wife during this time which was called the betrothal period, but weren't actually joined together until about a year later. We see this illustrated with Mary and Joseph:
Matthew 1:18-19 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit. And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man and not wanting to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly.
Joseph planned to send Mary away while they were betrothed together because he believed she was "indecent", or had committed "fornication" while they were in the betrothal period due to the pregnancy. This is what the Law of Moses allowed for:
Deuteronomy 24:1 "When a man takes (Hebrew lâqach) a wife and marries (Hebrew bâ‛al) her, and it happens that she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out from his house
"Lâqach" means to take, get, fetch, lay hold of, seize, receive, acquire, buy, bring, marry, take a wife, snatch, take away, and "bâ‛al" means to marry, rule over, possess, or own. Therefore the point in time being described there was a reference to the end of the betrothal period when the man would lay hold of his new bride and possess her, or in other words when he became one flesh with her. It states that at this point in time if she was found to be sexually unclean, then he had the option of divorcing the covenant and rejecting her as his wife.
That is the only point in time in which the Old Covenant Law ever permitted a divorce, and the only point in time that is permitted, and actually stated that if she was innocent of premarital fornication at that time that he absolutely could not divorce her for any reason for as long as they both lived:
Deuteronomy 22:13-19 "If any man takes a wife and goes in to her and then turns against her, and charges her with shameful deeds and publicly defames her, and says, 'I took this woman, but when I came near her, I did not find her a virgin,' then the girl's father and her mother shall take and bring out the evidence of the girl's virginity to the elders of the city at the gate. "The girl's father shall say to the elders, 'I gave my daughter to this man for a wife, but he turned against her; and behold, he has charged her with shameful deeds, saying, "I did not find your daughter a virgin." But this is the evidence of my daughter's virginity.' And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city. "So the elders of that city shall take the man and chastise him, and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give it to the girl's father, because he publicly defamed a virgin of Israel. And she shall remain his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days.
This is also confirmed by Jesus in the New Testament when discussing the Old Covenant Law with the Pharisees:
Matthew 19:3-6 Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?" And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'? "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."
First of all, the entire claim that God allows divorce and remarriage is refuted by Jesus immediately when the Pharisees ask Him the question, because His answer was an unequivocal NO! He says it is absolutely unlawful to God for us to try to separate what He Himself has joined together, so any claim that He was making provision here for divorce and remarriage is false.
This was His answer to the fundamental question of whether divorce of married couples is ever allowable, and He said it is NOT. The Pharisees then go on to question Him about the Old Covenant Law and an apparent “exception” offered there which as I showed above was for premarital fornication during the betrothal:
Matthew 19: 7-9 They *said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?" He *said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for fornication (Greek porneia), and marries another woman commits adultery."
Jesus confirms that the one cause under the Old Covenant Law was for a woman guilty of fornication, but added that all other divorces and subsequent remarriages were actually adulterous relationships. His reference was to the Law of Moses in Deuteronomy 24:1 where it allowed a man to divorce his wife if she was guilty of being unclean WHEN he "lâqach" (took her) and "bâ‛al" (took dominion over her). Jesus acknowledged this provision and then immediately rebuked the Pharisees who He was speaking to by stating that every other "divorce" and subsequent "remarriage" was actually an adulterous relationship, because both He and they knew full well that they had broadened Deuteronomy 24:1 to refer to all sorts of exceptions just as many professing Christians do today, and because of this, they were guilty of adultery and subject to stoning under the Old Covenant Law.
Just in case you want further evidence that "porneia" (fornication) was properly used to describe premarital fornication, again we can go back to the example of Jesus' Mother Mary;
John 8:41 "You are doing the deeds of your father." They said to Him, "We were not born of fornication (porneia); we have one Father: God."
In this text, the Pharisees give a bit of a back handed sneer at Jesus, claiming that the was born of "porneia." This claim could be made by anyone since it is obvious that Mary was pregnant before her and Joseph were married. Therefore they are accusing Jesus of being born by sexual promiscuity before his parents were married (in the betrothal period). That is the only time that "divorce" is allowed anywhere in the Bible, and doesn't apply at all to "divorce" as it is being practiced today. That's why Jesus when speaking to a New Covenant audience didn't even bother to mention this exception which is now irrelevent:
Mark 10:5-12 But Jesus said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment."But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE."FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER,AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh."What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." In the house the disciples began questioning Him about this again. And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her;and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."
Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery."
Now that we don't practice betrothal periods and we are no longer under the Old Covenant, Jesus tells us that everyone who divorces and remarries commits adultery without exception. the Bible does not and never has allowed for divorce of fully married couples, and the Mosaic exception had nothing to do with the "divorces" being practiced today.
SealedEternal
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/6/2008 11:46:26 AM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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ADMIN'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
To everyone,
I want to be very clear about something.
The purpose of this thread is to dicuss the TOPIC of Remarriage After Divorce.
It is NOT for the purpose of discussing YOUR divorce.
I have found that people who post with statements like, "so because I divorced my spouse I am now forever a sinner and never to be forgiven?" are opening themselves up to being hurt or hurting someone else.
If you are not able to participate in this topic without discussing the experience of YOUR divorce then I must request that you stay out of the thread.
Posts which ignore this warning will be removed without warning and may result in other action in accordance with the Terms of Service.
Thank you for your attention, understanding, and cooperation.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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Read today's Bible verse from my favorite online Bible
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/6/2008 1:13:19 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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ADMIN'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
The topic of this thread is Divorce and Remarriage.
It is NOT about how one chooses to display scripture verses.
Continued discussion on that line will be considered disruption of conversation and will result in further consequences.
Stay on the topic or stay out of the thread.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
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Messages which disregard the words in red will be removed without warning and the poster may also be banned.
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Read today's Bible verse from my favorite online Bible
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/6/2008 8:25:52 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 4566
Joined: 9/14/2007
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quote:
The Mosaic exception in Deuteronomy 24 was for premarital fornication according to the text, and was confirmed by Jesus as just that.
This is an opinion NOT shared by most biblical scholars or pastors, nor is there any evidence that it was understood as such by the Jewish people to whom it was written.
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אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/6/2008 9:29:13 PM
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SealedEternal
Posts: 1228
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: Milwaukee, WI
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
The Mosaic exception in Deuteronomy 24 was for premarital fornication according to the text, and was confirmed by Jesus as just that.
This is an opinion NOT shared by most biblical scholars or pastors, nor is there any evidence that it was understood as such by the Jewish people to whom it was written.
You are absolutely correct, which is why Jesus called the Jewish "experts" "blind guides", "fools and blind men", "hypocrites", "whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness", "serpents", "a brood of vipers, and many other very derogatory terms. It is also evidence for why He said that the many who call him Lord Lord have never known Him, while only a few of those who call him Lord with their lips actually do know Him and are His children. In terms of Bible hermeneutics, God has made it clear that being in the majority or in line with the experts isn't necessarily a good sign, and that actually the truth is difficult for mankind to accept, so the popular positions are often the false ones, and the popular experts are often the ones who pervert his Word the most.
I still contend that this interpretation of Deuteronomy 24 is the only one that fits the text and harmonizes with the other verses I posted above, while every other interpretation I've seen cannot be consistently harmonized with them without constant contradiction, so there is no doubt that those are in error. You yourself have admitted that this one is plausible, and have been unable to show how your interpretation will fit with the rest of the scriptures on the subject which it obviously contradicts, so I don't see how your position could possibly be true.
SealedEternal
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/7/2008 12:11:58 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 4566
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SealedEternal
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
The Mosaic exception in Deuteronomy 24 was for premarital fornication according to the text, and was confirmed by Jesus as just that.
This is an opinion NOT shared by most biblical scholars or pastors, nor is there any evidence that it was understood as such by the Jewish people to whom it was written.
You are absolutely correct, which is why Jesus called the Jewish "experts" "blind guides", "fools and blind men", "hypocrites", "whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness", "serpents", "a brood of vipers, and many other very derogatory terms. It is also evidence for why He said that the many who call him Lord Lord have never known Him, while only a few of those who call him Lord with their lips actually do know Him and are His children. In terms of Bible hermeneutics, God has made it clear that being in the majority or in line with the experts isn't necessarily a good sign, and that actually the truth is difficult for mankind to accept, so the popular positions are often the false ones, and the popular experts are often the ones who pervert his Word the most.
I still contend that this interpretation of Deuteronomy 24 is the only one that fits the text and harmonizes with the other verses I posted above, while every other interpretation I've seen cannot be consistently harmonized with them without constant contradiction, so there is no doubt that those are in error. You yourself have admitted that this one is plausible, and have been unable to show how your interpretation will fit with the rest of the scriptures on the subject which it obviously contradicts, so I don't see how your position could possibly be true.
SealedEternal
The fact that someone would imply that all Godly men and women throughout history who have diligently searched the scriptures but have not interpreted the scriptures as they do "blind guides, fools, blind men, hypocrites, whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness, serpents, a brood of vipers, and many other very derogatory terms" says volumes about why the opinion of those who hold to this very militant view of remarriage should not be trusted. When someone dismisses the faith of men like Calvin, Luther, Wesley, etc... or even modern pastors like Piper (who almost agrees with you) simply because they reject their exact interpretation of these passages, that should stand as a stanch warning when considering anything they have to say, and with a quick look though this history of this thread and one will find those committed to this unique view of remarriage have questioned the faith of all of these men and more. Many Godly men throughout history have disagreed with this unique view about remarriage, and many of these same men have even given their life in martyrdom because of their faith in Christ, and yet some on this thread have indicated that the faith of these men was not genuine simply because of their disagreement about this one doctrinal issue, and that tells me that a great deal of CAUTION should be exercised before considering any opinion offered by those holding this unique point of view.
_____________________________
אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/7/2008 9:05:46 AM
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lostsomuch
Posts: 160
Joined: 3/1/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SealedEternal
You are absolutely correct, which is why Jesus called the Jewish "experts" "blind guides", "fools and blind men", "hypocrites", "whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness", "serpents", "a brood of vipers, and many other very derogatory terms. It is also evidence for why He said that the many who call him Lord Lord have never known Him, while only a few of those who call him Lord with their lips actually do know Him and are His children. In terms of Bible hermeneutics, God has made it clear that being in the majority or in line with the experts isn't necessarily a good sign, and that actually the truth is difficult for mankind to accept, so the popular positions are often the false ones, and the popular experts are often the ones who pervert his Word the most.
I still contend that this interpretation of Deuteronomy 24 is the only one that fits the text and harmonizes with the other verses I posted above, while every other interpretation I've seen cannot be consistently harmonized with them without constant contradiction, so there is no doubt that those are in error. You yourself have admitted that this one is plausible, and have been unable to show how your interpretation will fit with the rest of the scriptures on the subject which it obviously contradicts, so I don't see how your position could possibly be true.
SealedEternal
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
The fact that someone would imply that all Godly men and women throughout history who have diligently searched the scriptures but have not interpreted the scriptures as they do are "blind guides, fools, blind men, hypocrites, whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness, serpents, a brood of vipers, and many other very derogatory terms" says volumes about why the opinion of those who hold to this very militant view of remarriage should not be trusted. When someone dismisses the faith of men like Calvin, Luther, Wesley, etc... or even modern pastors like Piper (who almost agrees with you) simply because they reject their exact interpretation of these passages, that should stand as a stanch warning when considering anything they have to say, and with a quick look though this history of this thread and one will find those committed to this unique view of remarriage have questioned the faith of all of these men and more. Many Godly men throughout history have disagreed with this unique view about remarriage, and many of these same men have even given their life in martyrdom because of their faith in Christ, and yet some on this thread have indicated that the faith of these men was not genuine simply because of their disagreement about this one doctrinal issue, and that tells me that a great deal of CAUTION should be exercised before considering any opinion offered by those holding this unique point of view.
Benelchi,
I agree with your observation 100%. Caution.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/7/2008 9:52:47 AM
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SealedEternal
Posts: 1228
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: Milwaukee, WI
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
The fact that someone would imply that all Godly men and women throughout history who have diligently searched the scriptures but have not interpreted the scriptures as they do "blind guides, fools, blind men, hypocrites, whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness, serpents, a brood of vipers, and many other very derogatory terms" says volumes about why the opinion of those who hold to this very militant view of remarriage should not be trusted. When someone dismisses the faith of men like Calvin, Luther, Wesley, etc... or even modern pastors like Piper (who almost agrees with you) simply because they reject their exact interpretation of these passages, that should stand as a stanch warning when considering anything they have to say, and with a quick look though this history of this thread and one will find those committed to this unique view of remarriage have questioned the faith of all of these men and more. Many Godly men throughout history have disagreed with this unique view about remarriage, and many of these same men have even given their life in martyrdom because of their faith in Christ, and yet some on this thread have indicated that the faith of these men was not genuine simply because of their disagreement about this one doctrinal issue, and that tells me that a great deal of CAUTION should be exercised before considering any opinion offered by those holding this unique point of view.
One of the problems that mankind has always had is that we have a tendency to prop up human experts instead of trusting in God Himself and His Word:
Genesis 2:22-24 The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. The man said, "This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man." For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.
Malachi 2:13-17 "This is another thing you do: you cover the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping and with groaning, because He no longer regards the offering or accepts it with favor from your hand. "Yet you say, 'For what reason?' Because the LORD has been a witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant. "But not one has done so who has a remnant of the Spirit And what did that one do while he was seeking a godly offspring? Take heed then to your spirit, and let no one deal treacherously against the wife of your youth. "For I HATE DIVORCE," says the LORD, the God of Israel, "and him who covers his garment with wrong," says the LORD of hosts. "So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously." You have wearied the LORD with your words Yet you say, "How have we wearied Him?" In that you say, "Everyone who does evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and He delights in them," or, "Where is the God of justice?"
Matthew 5:31-33 "It was said, 'WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE';but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery."Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FALSE VOWS, BUT SHALL FULFILL YOUR VOWS TO THE LORD.'
Matthew 19:4-6 And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?"So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."
Mark 10:5-12 But Jesus said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment."But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE."FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER,AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh."What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." In the house the disciples began questioning Him about this again. And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her;and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."
Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery."
1 Corinthians 7:10-13 But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife. But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away.
I Corinthians 7:39 A wife is bound as long as her husband lives; but if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.
Romans 7:2-3 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
Ephesians 5:22-32 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, because we are members of His body. FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.
Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.
I Corinthians 6:9-11 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such WERE some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
He has told us in His Word that He joins the two into one at marriage, that we cannot separate that union, and that if we do and remarry we have entered an adulterous affair and cannot inherit His Kingdom. Those are His Words on the subject, and any so-called "expert" who disagrees is a heretic regardless of how great some people think they are. The difference between me and you is that I trust in God and His word and you trust in human experts who contradict His Word.
SealedEternal
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 3/7/2008 10:23:37 AM
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fist.sensei
Posts: 31
Joined: 2/29/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SealedEternal
First of all His "marriage" to Israel was symbolic and shouldn't be used as an excuse to nulify His clear and specific commandments regarding marriage. I still think He was following his own marriage law however by giving her a writ of divorce for infidelity during the betrothal which is what the Old Covenant Law permitted. His relationship to her was still in the betrothal stage symbolically because they were bound together by covenant but living separate from one another. Secondly, If you read the rest of the chapter it states that He is waiting for His betrothed wife to return to Him and wants to be reconciled, so He has not forsaken His wife despite her sins.
It is notable that here you call scripture "symbolic", but when it benefits your argument you take all scripture as "literal."
Scripture also says: "Have nothing to do with: foolish quarrels; lists of people who lived long ago; those who make trouble and argue about the law. These things do not help people and are good for nothing." Titus 3:9
And using your own scripture: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself."
According to you a man should leave his wife and kids over semantics. The everyman I speak of is a man whose wife left him of her own accord, and he remarried and currently has kids. I don't think that upholds the "greatest commandments".
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