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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/15/2009 2:11:24 AM
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Isaiah331516
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quote:
Well, then my parents have been committing adultery for 40 years. However neither of them is a Christan yet so it should not matter.
doesn't matter?? please explain :-)
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/15/2009 8:10:31 AM
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gmcspice
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Isaiah,
Before we get saved, our hearts are filled with all manner of things against God. You should not think it strange that divorce happens.
What she is saying is her parents are in sin anyway because they are not in Christ.
Now, if they get saved, do you think God would make them divorce?
They have been married for 40 years!
Something uncommon in today's world.
Would their marriage be still considered sin if they both got saved?
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/15/2009 10:51:58 AM
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the_silver_cup
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah331516
quote:
I agree that even if the state reconize your divorce you are still not divorced in God's eyes Matt 5:31-32. You are still bound to each other, committing adultery "against" the other if you remarry. And according to the Law of Moses all that was required was a "writ" of divorce and have it handed to her, but we are to uphold the laws of the land, so if our country requires for a divorce then we are to obey our countries laws. Also, the only way for a divorce to be officialed correctly is if the man has knowledge of the woman's sexual immorality in the marriage.
this is one very good reason to marry whom God has for us to marry. agreed?
What is this thread, a pretzel factory? If a divorce is not a divorce, how is it this big terrible thing that must be talked about for thousands of posts? To the first person quoted above, did it occur to you that almost nobody is going to hand you evidence of their adultery on a silver platter? To the second person quoted above, what happens when the one "whom God has for us to marry" turns out to be the one summoning you to court for a divorce? There is a lot of talk that goes on in here that just seems so "divorced" from reality.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/15/2009 11:56:38 AM
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saraimay75
Posts: 8858
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From: Wherever God plants me.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah331516
quote:
Well, then my parents have been committing adultery for 40 years. However neither of them is a Christan yet so it should not matter.
doesn't matter?? please explain :-)
My father s divorced. I have no idea why he got divorced from his first wife. I figure it none of my business. My father and mother have been married for 40 years. According to you his marriage to his first wife was never valid. Therefore my parents must have been commiting adultery for 40 years.
_____________________________
You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
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http://forums.crosswalk.com/Saraimay75_Cruising_Around
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/15/2009 1:46:35 PM
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therealshowlove
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mikesayen
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: C.D.
As Christians we are to obey those in authority over us .So to be legally divorced in the eyes of the law of the land where the couple was married is to be truly divorced I believe.
You can't just leave and then say you are divorced. That is not really divorce.
Agreed, it is not now a "divorce", nor was it a "divorce" in the first century.
The idea that Scripture needs to be reinterpreted to conclude that Jesus was addressing a problem of people getting divorced without the proper legal paperwork is ridiculous because there is no indication that such a problem existed in the first century; the evidence we have indicates that this kind of abandonment was less of a problem in the first century Jewish culture than it is today and the context of the passage itself makes this interpretation impossible.
I agree that even if the state reconize your divorce you are still not divorced in God's eyes Matt 5:31-32. You are still bound to each other, committing adultery "against" the other if you remarry. And according to the Law of Moses all that was required was a "writ" of divorce and have it handed to her, but we are to uphold the laws of the land, so if our country requires for a divorce then we are to obey our countries laws. Also, the only way for a divorce to be officialed correctly is if the man has knowledge of the woman's sexual immorality in the marriage.
We know that is not true because we also know that God divorced Israel.
It didn't matter who did or did not recognize it.
_____________________________
2Cr 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband.
My, my, my I FINALLY got it! And my soul says yes! I could not have chosen better myself!
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/15/2009 2:00:27 PM
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Isaiah331516
Posts: 248
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silvercup,
i am not sure of to what you are referring. did i say that divorce does not occur? no. please explain. thanks :-)
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/15/2009 2:07:24 PM
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Isaiah331516
Posts: 248
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saraimay and gmspice,
i did not write that saraimay's father's marriage to his first wife was invalid.
thanks
< Message edited by Isaiah331516 -- 6/15/2009 2:24:00 PM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/15/2009 2:10:24 PM
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gmcspice
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I didn't say that, Isaiah.
What you are stating in your posts is that their 40 years marriage they have been committing adultery for the whole 40 years.
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/15/2009 2:32:42 PM
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Isaiah331516
Posts: 248
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gmspice wrote
quote:
I didn't say that, Isaiah.
What you are stating in your posts is that their 40 years marriage they have been committing adultery for the whole 40 years.
sorry if i misunderstood or grouped you incorrectly, gm.
i actually did not refer to saraimay's parents. i wrote...see below...
quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah331516
saraimay75,
.....
i am not aware of all the events and details of your parents marriage, may be Biblical, but your birth was not due to that.
i don't know what events led to her father's divorce.
also, what does God's word say on remarriage-He has the answers. i just look to Him to get them. i don't want the credit for what He says, but i certainly will repeat it and work to live by it :-) amen!
< Message edited by Isaiah331516 -- 6/15/2009 2:40:24 PM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/15/2009 2:53:29 PM
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gmcspice
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It's okay, I know that there can be some confusion some times.
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/15/2009 4:29:43 PM
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the_silver_cup
Posts: 23
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quote:
ORIGINAL: the_silver_cup
quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah331516
quote:
I agree that even if the state reconize your divorce you are still not divorced in God's eyes Matt 5:31-32. You are still bound to each other, committing adultery "against" the other if you remarry. And according to the Law of Moses all that was required was a "writ" of divorce and have it handed to her, but we are to uphold the laws of the land, so if our country requires for a divorce then we are to obey our countries laws. Also, the only way for a divorce to be officialed correctly is if the man has knowledge of the woman's sexual immorality in the marriage.
this is one very good reason to marry whom God has for us to marry. agreed?
What is this thread, a pretzel factory? If a divorce is not a divorce, how is it this big terrible thing that must be talked about for thousands of posts? To the first person quoted above, did it occur to you that almost nobody is going to hand you evidence of their adultery on a silver platter? To the second person quoted above, what happens when the one "whom God has for us to marry" turns out to be the one summoning you to court for a divorce? There is a lot of talk that goes on in here that just seems so "divorced" from reality.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah331516
silvercup,
i am not sure of to what you are referring. did i say that divorce does not occur? no. please explain. thanks :-)
Certainly, nothing personal at all. Marrying "whom God has for us to marry" or for that matter, doing e v e r y thing exactly "right" and by the Book has not proven to be any protection against divorce. It may be all you CAN do, but sometimes even that just isn't enough.
No, you did not say that divorce does not occur and my post did not say that. There are times though, when marrying the one God had for us -whether He did or we just thought it- doesn't work out.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/15/2009 4:51:14 PM
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Isaiah331516
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none of us are perfect, so there is no chance any of us do everything in a relationship perfectly.
also, if it is a Biblical, non adulterous (see Matthew 5 and 19 and other scriptures) marriage, then that is your spouse until one dies.
Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Matthew 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
Luke 16:18
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
Romans 7:3
So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
1 Corinthians 7:11
But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
1 Corinthians 7:39
The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/15/2009 5:20:01 PM
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Kath
Posts: 17282
Joined: 2/28/2005
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Attention Please
The purpose of this thread is to discuss the TOPIC of Remarriage After Divorce.
It is NOT for the purpose of discussing YOUR divorce and remarriage or that of your spouse or other family member.
We have found that people who post with statements like, "so because I divorced my spouse I am now forever a sinner and never to be forgiven?" or "Are you saying my (second) marriage is not valid" are opening themselves up to being hurt or hurting someone else.
If you are not able to participate in this topic without discussing the experience of YOUR divorce or the divorce of a family member then we must request that you stay out of the thread.
Posts which ignore this warning will be removed without warning and may result in other action in accordance with the Terms of Service.
Thank you for your attention, understanding, and cooperation.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/17/2009 3:57:18 PM
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northstar
Posts: 189
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Ok, as people have been arguing about the meanings of the words 'apoluo' and 'apostasion', I thought I'd share what little bit of info I found out.
I live in a Greek speaking country, so thought it might be helpful to ask a Greek Christian what the difference between the two words was.
The answer - NOTHING.
Neither of them has divorce as their primary meaning. 'Apostasion' means literally 'to stand away from', and 'apoluo' literally means 'solve from' or in better English, to 'dissolve'. The words used by themselves do not speak of divorce, however, when Jesus uses them in the context of divorce and remarriage, they BOTH mean a divorce, and in both cases would include a 'bill of divorcement'. Neither one of them means 'to send away' without a bill of divorce.
The guy I asked said in no way does the Bible say(in the Greek), that it is 'putting away' that is wrong, rather than divorce being wrong, as both the words means divorce. Jesus was not talking about 'putting away' at all, but with the use of either word, was referring to a 'proper' legal divorce. He almost laughed (in a throwing his hands up in despair kind of way) when I said that I've heard that one of the words means 'to put away without a certificate of divorce', and adamantly repeated that there was no difference in the usage of the two words.
I think I trust a native Greek speaking Bible scholar over Strong's concordance any day.
_____________________________
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
Psalm 122:6
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/17/2009 6:35:30 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 4566
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: northstar
Ok, as people have been arguing about the meanings of the words 'apoluo' and 'apostasion', I thought I'd share what little bit of info I found out.
I live in a Greek speaking country, so thought it might be helpful to ask a Greek Christian what the difference between the two words was.
The answer - NOTHING.
Neither of them has divorce as their primary meaning. 'Apostasion' means literally 'to stand away from', and 'apoluo' literally means 'solve from' or in better English, to 'dissolve'. The words used by themselves do not speak of divorce, however, when Jesus uses them in the context of divorce and remarriage, they BOTH mean a divorce, and in both cases would include a 'bill of divorcement'. Neither one of them means 'to send away' without a bill of divorce.
The guy I asked said in no way does the Bible say(in the Greek), that it is 'putting away' that is wrong, rather than divorce being wrong, as both the words means divorce. Jesus was not talking about 'putting away' at all, but with the use of either word, was referring to a 'proper' legal divorce. He almost laughed (in a throwing his hands up in despair kind of way) when I said that I've heard that one of the words means 'to put away without a certificate of divorce', and adamantly repeated that there was no difference in the usage of the two words.
I think I trust a native Greek speaking Bible scholar over Strong's concordance any day.
I think there is good reason to trust your friend and the many Greek scholars who have translated our bibles; however, I would point out that Strong's itself is not wrong, it was the misuse of that tool that caused the problem here and not the tool itself. Strong's is often misused to "twist" Scripture but that is not the fault of the tool itself but those who have chosen to misuse it.
_____________________________
אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/18/2009 8:14:57 AM
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northstar
Posts: 189
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: northstar
Ok, as people have been arguing about the meanings of the words 'apoluo' and 'apostasion', I thought I'd share what little bit of info I found out.
I live in a Greek speaking country, so thought it might be helpful to ask a Greek Christian what the difference between the two words was.
The answer - NOTHING.
Neither of them has divorce as their primary meaning. 'Apostasion' means literally 'to stand away from', and 'apoluo' literally means 'solve from' or in better English, to 'dissolve'. The words used by themselves do not speak of divorce, however, when Jesus uses them in the context of divorce and remarriage, they BOTH mean a divorce, and in both cases would include a 'bill of divorcement'. Neither one of them means 'to send away' without a bill of divorce.
The guy I asked said in no way does the Bible say(in the Greek), that it is 'putting away' that is wrong, rather than divorce being wrong, as both the words means divorce. Jesus was not talking about 'putting away' at all, but with the use of either word, was referring to a 'proper' legal divorce. He almost laughed (in a throwing his hands up in despair kind of way) when I said that I've heard that one of the words means 'to put away without a certificate of divorce', and adamantly repeated that there was no difference in the usage of the two words.
I think I trust a native Greek speaking Bible scholar over Strong's concordance any day.
I think there is good reason to trust your friend and the many Greek scholars who have translated our bibles; however, I would point out that Strong's itself is not wrong, it was the misuse of that tool that caused the problem here and not the tool itself. Strong's is often misused to "twist" Scripture but that is not the fault of the tool itself but those who have chosen to misuse it.
Ok, good point :-)
_____________________________
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
Psalm 122:6
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/22/2009 12:58:34 AM
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Isaiah331516
Posts: 248
Joined: 1/5/2009
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i don't get this
i mean..practically every Christian and i mean of all shapes and sizes believe pretty much the same way as the world on the marriage divorce remarriage issue.
one of the things that baffles me is: well, the words are right there. i know. not everything is revealed to everybody at the same time.
another thing is: well, i guess it is really part of the first-deception. even hard core Christians beleive all marriages are of God. He will bless whatever you want. this view is just like the world, but they don't see it.
i know the truth is almost excruciatingly painful, but for some reason God is not letting me forget it. well, honestly, i could decide to just ignore the truth-i think. i have thought about it bc it comes against what 99% people believe and it certainly is easier to live according to the 99% belief. i used to.
most Christians scream, "God hates divorce." but then roll around in the hay with remarriage. remarriage is not possible without divorce. stop asking me to pray for your unGodly remarriage that only exists bc of an unGodly divorce.
the best would be for all to understand God's truth. in the meantime, may i request a moratorium on convenient non-Biblical belief statements like, "God is for all marriages." "God blesses all marriages." "God hates divorce except for this or that one." "Marriage is for life..until you get divorced. Then your next marriage is for life." the last almost gets me chuckling-are you serious!?!
i have a friend who married a man who had been married twice before-they were unequally yoked and living in sin before marriage. well, she had been seeking the Lord and she said God was telling her not to marry him, she did anyway cuuzz you know..it was already planned and all.
anyhow, fast forward years of bad marriage..and now some are trying to convince me that God did not mean what He said. one of the most God fearing women i know even said that it is okay to do what God says not to and then pray for Him to make it okay-that that is faith.
maybe something is wrong with me, but to that i say, "what?!?!!" most on here would prob agree upon first reading. i ask though, how many do this in their lives. maybe you too have married someone you knew you were not to marry or you took a job you know God disapproved of and now you are asking God to bless it. do we ever think God has for us to get the crud or unGodly stuff, people, realtionships out of our lives? or do we think we just keep doing whatever we want or think is probably okay and just expect God to bless and make okay whatever we do?
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/22/2009 1:21:56 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 4566
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah331516
i don't get this
i mean..practically every Christian and i mean of all shapes and sizes believe pretty much the same way as the world on the marriage divorce remarriage issue.
This is not true of hardly any of the Christians I know.
quote:
one of the things that baffles me is: well, the words are right there. i know. not everything is revealed to everybody at the same time.
And somethings are not "revealed" at all, and often those who claim to have had a "revelation" that most other committed Christians cannot see often are simply revealing their own self deception.
quote:
another thing is: well, i guess it is really part of the first-deception. even hard core Christians beleive all marriages are of God. He will bless whatever you want. this view is just like the world, but they don't see it.
That is a misrepresentation about what many Christians believe; while many Christians believe that God can bless marriages that were begun in sin, they also believe that God only blesses those marriages when there has been genuine repentance. They do not believe that God will bless "whatever you want."
quote:
i know the truth is almost excruciatingly painful, but for some reason God is not letting me forget it. well, honestly, i could decide to just ignore the truth-i think. i have thought about it bc it comes against what 99% people believe and it certainly is easier to live according to the 99% belief. i used to.
When 99% of godly committed Christian leaders reject what you believe, maybe it is time to reconsider your own position.
quote:
most Christians scream, "God hates divorce." but then roll around in the hay with remarriage. remarriage is not possible without divorce. stop asking me to pray for your unGodly remarriage that only exists bc of an unGodly divorce.
Since Scripture gives instructions for divorce and remarriage, and instructions about when and how such divorce can be done while honoring God, it is impossible to reconcile your doctrinal stand with what is taught in Scripture. It is clear in Scripture that God hates divorce, and yet it is clear in Scripture that God recognizes that divorce sometimes happens outside of the control of one spouse.
quote:
the best would be for all to understand God's truth. in the meantime, may i request a moratorium on convenient non-Biblical belief statements like, "God is for all marriages." "God blesses all marriages." "God hates divorce except for this or that one." "Marriage is for life..until you get divorced. Then your next marriage is for life." the last almost gets me chuckling-are you serious!?!
How about "God honors the marriage covenant even when he hates the choices that led to its conception"; "God forgives those who genuinely come to him in repentance"; "divorce is NEVER a sign of repentance or a method to repentance"; etc...
quote:
i have a friend who married a man who had been married twice before-they were unequally yoked and living in sin before marriage. well, she had been seeking the Lord and she said God was telling her not to marry him, she did anyway cuuzz you know..it was already planned and all.
anyhow, fast forward years of bad marriage..and now some are trying to convince me that God did not mean what He said. one of the most God fearing women i know even said that it is okay to do what God says not to and then pray for Him to make it okay-that that is faith.
maybe something is wrong with me, but to that i say, "what?!?!!" most on here would prob agree upon first reading. i ask though, how many do this in their lives. maybe you too have married someone you knew you were not to marry or you took a job you know God disapproved of and now you are asking God to bless it. do we ever think God has for us to get the crud or unGodly stuff, people, realtionships out of our lives? or do we think we just keep doing whatever we want or think is probably okay and just expect God to bless and make okay whatever we do?
Because someone may (or may not) be treating divorce flippantly doesn't add any strength to your argument that all divorce is wrong. It may be wrong for your friends marriage and yet still be biblically permitted in a different situation.
_____________________________
אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/22/2009 2:25:45 AM
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Isaiah331516
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well, there are many gaps between what i wrote and your response. i am not downing your repsonse. but clarification is needed.
my justification for what i believe is God's word.
the issue of most ppl including Christians reading it otherwise is not cause for me to stop believing God, although i have thought and prayed considerably due to the questions that fact raised.
kind of like - most Christians also celebrate Christmas with trees and at least some form of the whole shebang. been there, done that, now i know it's not of God-not going back. also, most of trhe church is really babylon. it's not a good idea to go by what most of the church says. going by what God says is much better.
yes, God forgives...this is interesting to me.
many say..well, repent. okay. repent for what? the first marriage or the divorce or both??
if you married someone God told you not to, then repent for going against God and get out of the marriage.
if you got an unGodly divorce, repent and wait to get back in the marriage.
this is so hard for us bc we go by what we want. when we are done with someone or they are done with us, we say that is it. it must be okay to divorce bc we've had it...for any number of justifiable reasons. then, often, we fall in love again. then we say how great this is ignoring that God said we were made as one with that person we married before.
i am actually not saying all divorce is wrong, what i am saying is,
Matthew 5:31-32
Matthew 19:6
Matthew 19:8-9
Mark 10:11-12
1 Corinthians 7:10-11..
it doesn't appear that God is so much against divorce as He is remarraige-and that is the hardest part to swallow. it is much easier to say divorce is the baddy, but reading what He says about remarriage makes it pretty clear many remarriages are actually adulterous relationships. who wants to beleive this?!!
quote:
Since Scripture gives instructions for divorce and remarriage, and instructions about when and how such divorce can be done while honoring God, it is impossible to reconcile your doctrinal stand with what is taught in Scripture. It is clear in Scripture that God hates divorce, and yet it is clear in Scripture that God recognizes that divorce sometimes happens outside of the control of one spouse.
where are those scripture instructions on remarriage?
Matthew 19:9 man to remarry after divorce for cause of fornication
1 Corinthians 7:27 man to remarry okay..now Jesus gave the reason above
widows to remarry okay-
quote:
How about "God honors the marriage covenant even when he hates the choices that led to its conception"; "God forgives those who genuinely come to him in repentance"; "divorce is NEVER a sign of repentance or a method to repentance"; etc...
i know. He honors that covenant. what is that covenant? isn't that a life covenant? please clarify if otherwise.
quote:
And somethings are not "revealed" at all, and often those who claim to have had a "revelation" that most other committed Christians cannot see often are simply revealing their own self deception.
do i want this truth to be the truth? only bc God says it; otherwise, it is a VERY hard truth. is it easy? no. fun? no. desirable? not really in my flesh or in my head or even in MY heart.
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah331516
i don't get this
i mean..practically every Christian and i mean of all shapes and sizes believe pretty much the same way as the world on the marriage divorce remarriage issue.
benelchi
This is not true of hardly any of the Christians I know.
what do the Christians you know believe?
in the world my friends and i valued marriage. marriage was good, didn't like divorce. we thought though if things got really, terribly bad-abusive, fighting, tried counseling, and still not good, then we would say okay to divorce. then, if you fell in love again, great! get married. how different is this than most of the church except for 'go to church before and while doing all of the above'?
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/22/2009 3:19:29 AM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah331516
well, there are many gaps between what i wrote and your response. i am not downing your repsonse. but clarification is needed.
my justification for what i believe is God's word.
the issue of most ppl including Christians reading it otherwise is not cause for me to stop believing God, although i have thought and prayed considerably due to the questions that fact raised.
kind of like - most Christians also celebrate Christmas with trees and at least some form of the whole shebang. been there, done that, now i know it's not of God-not going back. also, most of trhe church is really babylon. it's not a good idea to go by what most of the church says. going by what God says is much better.
yes, God forgives...this is interesting to me.
many say..well, repent. okay. repent for what? the first marriage or the divorce or both??
if you married someone God told you not to, then repent for going against God and get out of the marriage.
if you got an unGodly divorce, repent and wait to get back in the marriage.
this is so hard for us bc we go by what we want. when we are done with someone or they are done with us, we say that is it. it must be okay to divorce bc we've had it...for any number of justifiable reasons. then, often, we fall in love again. then we say how great this is ignoring that God said we were made as one with that person we married before.
i am actually not saying all divorce is wrong, what i am saying is,
Matthew 5:31-32
Matthew 19:6
Matthew 19:8-9
Mark 10:11-12
1 Corinthians 7:10-11..
it doesn't appear that God is so much against divorce as He is remarraige-and that is the hardest part to swallow. it is much easier to say divorce is the baddy, but reading what He says about remarriage makes it pretty clear many remarriages are actually adulterous relationships. who wants to beleive this?!!
quote:
Since Scripture gives instructions for divorce and remarriage, and instructions about when and how such divorce can be done while honoring God, it is impossible to reconcile your doctrinal stand with what is taught in Scripture. It is clear in Scripture that God hates divorce, and yet it is clear in Scripture that God recognizes that divorce sometimes happens outside of the control of one spouse.
where are those scripture instructions on remarriage?
Matthew 19:9 man to remarry after divorce for cause of fornication
1 Corinthians 7:27 man to remarry okay..now Jesus gave the reason above
widows to remarry okay-
quote:
How about "God honors the marriage covenant even when he hates the choices that led to its conception"; "God forgives those who genuinely come to him in repentance"; "divorce is NEVER a sign of repentance or a method to repentance"; etc...
i know. He honors that covenant. what is that covenant? isn't that a life covenant? please clarify if otherwise.
quote:
And somethings are not "revealed" at all, and often those who claim to have had a "revelation" that most other committed Christians cannot see often are simply revealing their own self deception.
do i want this truth to be the truth? only bc God says it; otherwise, it is a VERY hard truth. is it easy? no. fun? no. desirable? not really in my flesh or in my head or even in MY heart.
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah331516
i don't get this
i mean..practically every Christian and i mean of all shapes and sizes believe pretty much the same way as the world on the marriage divorce remarriage issue.
benelchi
This is not true of hardly any of the Christians I know.
what do the Christians you know believe?
in the world my friends and i valued marriage. marriage was good, didn't like divorce. we thought though if things got really, terribly bad-abusive, fighting, tried counseling, and still not good, then we would say okay to divorce. then, if you fell in love again, great! get married. how different is this than most of the church except for 'go to church before and while doing all of the above'?
Hi,,, what a "covenant" is ... :)
Covenants
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia;
This article is about covenants in general. For more specific uses, see Covenant (disambiguation).
A covenant, in its most general sense, is a solemn promise to engage in or refrain from a specified action.
More specifically, a covenant, in contrast to a contract, is a one-way agreement whereby the covenanter is the only party bound by the promise. A covenant may have conditions and prerequisites that qualify the undertaking, including the acations of second or third parties, but there is no inherent agreement by such other parties to fulfill those requirements. Consequentially, the only party that can break a covenant is the covenanter.
The bible speaks about Covenants:
Gal 3:15 it says, “Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Thought it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it” as to say, “and this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God, in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.”
For the woman who… “Forsakes the companion of her youth; and forgets the covenant of her God” Proverbs 2:17, God no longer looks at them as two but one, “yet she is your companion and your wife by covenant” Malachi 2:14 and 15.
God to fulfill his promise, “thus I establish My covenant with you: Never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood; never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth. And God said: This is the sign of the covenant which I make between Me and you, and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: I will set My rainbow in the cloud…”
So when Israel was not faithful to their covenant oaths they were guilty of breaking the covenant to their God and when Israel did not return God gave her a certificate of Divorce but when Judah returned God remained faithful to her Jer 3:10.
God made a covenant with David and will remain faithful to his Covenant with David Ps 89:30-37 and will bring Israel back and marry her again and make a “new Covenant” with her Hosea 2:13-23 and Jer 31:31-33 an everlasting Covenant.
God says for his covenant with David, though man is faithless God is faithful for he cannot deny Himself. Though man broke their covenant with God in at Mt. Heron in giving of the 10 commandments, God remind faithful to His promises with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and will restore Israel and David will have a King on the thrown forever.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/22/2009 3:21:24 AM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline
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a little tid bit about marriage... and divorce.
“As long as he lives”
Rom 7:2 and 1 Cor 7:39 says she is still bound of law to him “as long as he lives”. “As long as lives” was a very strong statement and a blanket statement to be an all inclusive - no matter what as long as he lives he will do such and such (with no exceptions). As said when Hannah “lent” her son Samuel to the Lord “as long as he lives” .
Paul addresses questions, 1 Cor 7:1, the Church had about; marriage, divorce, and remarriage in verses 1-40. The Church questioned everyone getting married… the widow, the virgin “not sin” (but vs. 36 “let them marry”), the divorced man “not sin”, everyone! Paul speaks lastly about the remarriage of a woman in 1 Cor 7:39 a woman has been bound of law “on as long as lives” the husband. Paul did not mention the “loosed” women as he did the men.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/22/2009 9:48:28 AM
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Katie51
Posts: 227
Joined: 1/8/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah331516
i don't get this
i mean..practically every Christian and i mean of all shapes and sizes believe pretty much the same way as the world on the marriage divorce remarriage issue.
one of the things that baffles me is: well, the words are right there. i know. not everything is revealed to everybody at the same time.
another thing is: well, i guess it is really part of the first-deception. even hard core Christians beleive all marriages are of God. He will bless whatever you want. this view is just like the world, but they don't see it.
i know the truth is almost excruciatingly painful, but for some reason God is not letting me forget it. well, honestly, i could decide to just ignore the truth-i think. i have thought about it bc it comes against what 99% people believe and it certainly is easier to live according to the 99% belief. i used to.
most Christians scream, "God hates divorce." but then roll around in the hay with remarriage. remarriage is not possible without divorce. stop asking me to pray for your unGodly remarriage that only exists bc of an unGodly divorce.
the best would be for all to understand God's truth. in the meantime, may i request a moratorium on convenient non-Biblical belief statements like, "God is for all marriages." "God blesses all marriages." "God hates divorce except for this or that one." "Marriage is for life..until you get divorced. Then your next marriage is for life." the last almost gets me chuckling-are you serious!?!
i have a friend who married a man who had been married twice before-they were unequally yoked and living in sin before marriage. well, she had been seeking the Lord and she said God was telling her not to marry him, she did anyway cuuzz you know..it was already planned and all.
anyhow, fast forward years of bad marriage..and now some are trying to convince me that God did not mean what He said. one of the most God fearing women i know even said that it is okay to do what God says not to and then pray for Him to make it okay-that that is faith.
maybe something is wrong with me, but to that i say, "what?!?!!" most on here would prob agree upon first reading. i ask though, how many do this in their lives. maybe you too have married someone you knew you were not to marry or you took a job you know God disapproved of and now you are asking God to bless it. do we ever think God has for us to get the crud or unGodly stuff, people, realtionships out of our lives? or do we think we just keep doing whatever we want or think is probably okay and just expect God to bless and make okay whatever we do?
I dont know of any Christian who is fond of divorce. I dont know of anyone period who is FOR it. It just not as black and white as you like to think it is. Abuse happens, sadly. Terrible abuse. In many forms. As imperfect and stumbling children of God we, the divorced Christians, do the best we can. That may sound silly to someone who hasnt lived through it. Those who have walked this road know exactly what I am talking about. Incessant quibbling over what God REALLY meant is useless to us who have had to go through a divorce (emphasis on HAD TO) for reasons I am not allowed to discuss in this forum. You think we gleefully skipped to divorce court because we justified it in our minds? Hardly. Often we are the ones working hardest to save marriages and feel the most guilty over it...and know it is necessary for survival, mental and physical. You are talking about something you havent lived, so you dont know.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/22/2009 10:50:06 AM
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Belle_Texas
Posts: 222
Joined: 9/14/2005
From: Texas!! Where else???
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Katie51
quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah331516
i don't get this
i mean..practically every Christian and i mean of all shapes and sizes believe pretty much the same way as the world on the marriage divorce remarriage issue.
one of the things that baffles me is: well, the words are right there. i know. not everything is revealed to everybody at the same time.
another thing is: well, i guess it is really part of the first-deception. even hard core Christians beleive all marriages are of God. He will bless whatever you want. this view is just like the world, but they don't see it.
i know the truth is almost excruciatingly painful, but for some reason God is not letting me forget it. well, honestly, i could decide to just ignore the truth-i think. i have thought about it bc it comes against what 99% people believe and it certainly is easier to live according to the 99% belief. i used to.
most Christians scream, "God hates divorce." but then roll around in the hay with remarriage. remarriage is not possible without divorce. stop asking me to pray for your unGodly remarriage that only exists bc of an unGodly divorce.
the best would be for all to understand God's truth. in the meantime, may i request a moratorium on convenient non-Biblical belief statements like, "God is for all marriages." "God blesses all marriages." "God hates divorce except for this or that one." "Marriage is for life..until you get divorced. Then your next marriage is for life." the last almost gets me chuckling-are you serious!?!
i have a friend who married a man who had been married twice before-they were unequally yoked and living in sin before marriage. well, she had been seeking the Lord and she said God was telling her not to marry him, she did anyway cuuzz you know..it was already planned and all.
anyhow, fast forward years of bad marriage..and now some are trying to convince me that God did not mean what He said. one of the most God fearing women i know even said that it is okay to do what God says not to and then pray for Him to make it okay-that that is faith.
maybe something is wrong with me, but to that i say, "what?!?!!" most on here would prob agree upon first reading. i ask though, how many do this in their lives. maybe you too have married someone you knew you were not to marry or you took a job you know God disapproved of and now you are asking God to bless it. do we ever think God has for us to get the crud or unGodly stuff, people, realtionships out of our lives? or do we think we just keep doing whatever we want or think is probably okay and just expect God to bless and make okay whatever we do?
I dont know of any Christian who is fond of divorce. I dont know of anyone period who is FOR it. It just not as black and white as you like to think it is. Abuse happens, sadly. Terrible abuse. In many forms. As imperfect and stumbling children of God we, the divorced Christians, do the best we can. That may sound silly to someone who hasnt lived through it. Those who have walked this road know exactly what I am talking about. Incessant quibbling over what God REALLY meant is useless to us who have had to go through a divorce (emphasis on HAD TO) for reasons I am not allowed to discuss in this forum. You think we gleefully skipped to divorce court because we justified it in our minds? Hardly. Often we are the ones working hardest to save marriages and feel the most guilty over it...and know it is necessary for survival, mental and physical. You are talking about something you havent lived, so you dont know.
I feel your pain and understand where you are coming from, however, for some on this thread its not so much the Divorce thats the issue, its the Remarriage after the divorce that they do not agree with.
You should read as much on this as you can take..it really will make your head explode. 
_____________________________
Don't get tired of doing what's right for in due
season you shall reap if you don't faint.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/22/2009 10:52:42 AM
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northstar
Posts: 189
Status: offline
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^
Really this thread is not about divorce, but whether remarriage is ok after divorce.
I understand that some people end up divorced completely against their will, but what I do see from the Scriptures is that no matter who divorced who, whose fault it was (or wasn't), whether one's life was in danger and they had to leave, that remarriage is not an option until the covenant ends, and according to Hebrews 9:16 a covenant can only end by the death of one of the parties.
So whether one divorces or separates against their will or not, the bottom line is that the Bible says no remarriage until one's spouse dies.
ETA: Of course, this is all imho. :-)
< Message edited by northstar -- 6/22/2009 11:15:55 AM >
_____________________________
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
Psalm 122:6
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/22/2009 10:59:38 AM
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Belle_Texas
Posts: 222
Joined: 9/14/2005
From: Texas!! Where else???
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: northstar
^
Really this thread is not about divorce, but whether remarriage is ok after divorce.
I understand that some people end up divorced completely against their will, but what I do see from the Scriptures is that no matter who divorced who, whose fault it was (or wasn't), whether one's life was in danger and they had to leave, that remarriage is not an option until the covenant ends, and according to Hebrews 9:16 a covenant can only end by the death of one of the parties.
So whether one divorces or separates against their will or not, the bottom line is that the Bible says no remarriage until one's spouse dies.
WHAT?? Have you read any of this thread???
I guess Im wondering with all the scripture used to show just the opposite of what you are stating how you can come to that conclusion?
< Message edited by Belle_Texas -- 6/22/2009 11:22:48 AM >
_____________________________
Don't get tired of doing what's right for in due
season you shall reap if you don't faint.
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