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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/22/2009 11:31:31 AM
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Isaiah331516
Posts: 248
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quote:
I dont know of any Christian who is fond of divorce. I dont know of anyone period who is FOR it. It just not as black and white as you like to think it is. Abuse happens, sadly. Terrible abuse. In many forms. As imperfect and stumbling children of God we, the divorced Christians, do the best we can. That may sound silly to someone who hasnt lived through it. Those who have walked this road know exactly what I am talking about. Incessant quibbling over what God REALLY meant is useless to us who have had to go through a divorce (emphasis on HAD TO) for reasons I am not allowed to discuss in this forum. You think we gleefully skipped to divorce court because we justified it in our minds? Hardly. Often we are the ones working hardest to save marriages and feel the most guilty over it...and know it is necessary for survival, mental and physical. You are talking about something you havent lived, so you dont know.
other posters said it well...this is not as much about divorce as it is about remarriage after divorce. i do beleive though that if people beleived what Jesus said about remarriage a lot would change regarding divorce.
even so, about the underlined portion:
yeah, a lot of times some people spin their wheels trying to fight for a marriage that is not of God. this is sad--some ppl are in bondage being held to and made to feel guilty into staying in a marriage that is out of God's will. of course, other times-maybe more often, ppl are trying to encourage others to stay in covenant marriages (even if they don't nkow what that is)..
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/22/2009 11:43:57 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 4566
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Isaiah331516,
Your PM box is full.
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אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/22/2009 11:45:16 AM
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pickupyourmat
Posts: 279
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Isaiah331516
Are you saying that if I married someone God told me clearly not to marry, it would be right for me to get out of the marriage? Before I comment, I want to make sure this is what you're saying.
< Message edited by pickupyourmat -- 6/22/2009 12:12:53 PM >
_____________________________
"It's not my opinion but the word of God." That's the same thing Jim Jones said.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/22/2009 12:03:37 PM
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Katie51
Posts: 227
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah331516
quote:
I dont know of any Christian who is fond of divorce. I dont know of anyone period who is FOR it. It just not as black and white as you like to think it is. Abuse happens, sadly. Terrible abuse. In many forms. As imperfect and stumbling children of God we, the divorced Christians, do the best we can. That may sound silly to someone who hasnt lived through it. Those who have walked this road know exactly what I am talking about. Incessant quibbling over what God REALLY meant is useless to us who have had to go through a divorce (emphasis on HAD TO) for reasons I am not allowed to discuss in this forum. You think we gleefully skipped to divorce court because we justified it in our minds? Hardly. Often we are the ones working hardest to save marriages and feel the most guilty over it...and know it is necessary for survival, mental and physical. You are talking about something you havent lived, so you dont know.
other posters said it well...this is not as much about divorce as it is about remarriage after divorce. i do beleive though that if people beleived what Jesus said about remarriage a lot would change regarding divorce.
even so, about the underlined portion:
yeah, a lot of times some people spin their wheels trying to fight for a marriage that is not of God. this is sad--some ppl are in bondage being held to and made to feel guilty into staying in a marriage that is out of God's will. of course, other times-maybe more often, ppl are trying to encourage others to stay in covenant marriages (even if they don't nkow what that is)..
Your pm box is full  I know the forum tries (and i thank you, moderators, for all your hard work) to keep the topics separate, but the topic of divorce and remarriage are so often woven together that it is difficult to do. And I dont know of any Biblical passage that refers to "covenant" marriage ? We is all doing the best we can! and trusting in and thanking God for His grace in marriage...in remarriage..in everything!
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/23/2009 4:14:14 PM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
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quote:
ORIGINAL: northstar
^
Really this thread is not about divorce, but whether remarriage is ok after divorce.
I understand that some people end up divorced completely against their will, but what I do see from the Scriptures is that no matter who divorced who, whose fault it was (or wasn't), whether one's life was in danger and they had to leave, that remarriage is not an option until the covenant ends, and according to Hebrews 9:16 a covenant can only end by the death of one of the parties.
So whether one divorces or separates against their will or not, the bottom line is that the Bible says no remarriage until one's spouse dies.
ETA: Of course, this is all imho. :-)
...well, it says the woman is not allowed to 'remarry' until the death of her husband (no matter what), but it does say if a man put away his wife for sexual immorality he may marry another and it is not "sin" 1 Cor 7:27-28 and Matt 19:9.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/23/2009 4:17:50 PM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah331516
quote:
even so, about the underlined portion:
yeah, a lot of times some people spin their wheels trying to fight for a marriage that is not of God. this is sad--some ppl are in bondage being held to and made to feel guilty into staying in a marriage that is out of God's will. of course, other times-maybe more often, ppl are trying to encourage others to stay in covenant marriages (even if they don't nkow what that is)..
Could you explain more on this for your audinece to understand K.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/24/2009 6:24:39 AM
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northstar
Posts: 189
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Belle_Texas
quote:
ORIGINAL: northstar
^
Really this thread is not about divorce, but whether remarriage is ok after divorce.
I understand that some people end up divorced completely against their will, but what I do see from the Scriptures is that no matter who divorced who, whose fault it was (or wasn't), whether one's life was in danger and they had to leave, that remarriage is not an option until the covenant ends, and according to Hebrews 9:16 a covenant can only end by the death of one of the parties.
So whether one divorces or separates against their will or not, the bottom line is that the Bible says no remarriage until one's spouse dies.
WHAT?? Have you read any of this thread???
I guess Im wondering with all the scripture used to show just the opposite of what you are stating how you can come to that conclusion?
Actually I reckon I've read a good chunk of it. If you look back at the beginning you'll see I was there at the start of the thread (don't look at my post count, it's misleading, for some reason it got zeroed and I had to start again), plus I was also involved in all the threads that were on this topic before they all got consolidated into this one thread. Anyway, the point I want to make is this - I've seen the same old arguments time and time again, and not one of them convinces me. They may be very clever arguments, but imo, that's all they are.
And I personally don't think that when we stand before the judgement seat of Christ, he'll say, (sorry, I really don't mean to be flippant here) oh, well done you...I hadn't thought of that argument. Oh well, in that case I'll have to let you off.
Regardless of whether I'm right or not, we'd all do well to remember that God's opinion on a matter does not change, and we'd better make sure we know what God says on a subject, and stop trying to justify ourselves with great sounding arguments...because no matter what clever loopholes we may think we've come up with, if God says no, then the answer's no and it won't change.
And I'm not saying either that divorce and remarriage are the only 'biggies' that we need to worry about (just that this happens to be a remarriage thread)...I mean, if I'm not remarried but I constantly lie, then I'm gonna be in trouble with God, or if I'm a habitual complainer, etc. Or if someone continually lusts (which Jesus says is adultery) then God won't overlook that either. All sin is as heinous to God as any other sin and we have to overcome it. And we can - to say otherwise would be to deny that God is powerful enough to change us.
Anyway, I digress, my point is that yes, I've read a very large amount of this thread, and others like it for at least the last five years now, and I still stick to the fact that I believe remarriage after divorce is wrong (at least until the spouse dies). Before that I still believed remarriage after divorce was wrong, I just didn't know why, but in the last five years I've studied the subject and what I've learned over this time has made my opinion firmer, and I've researched the better sounding arguments for remarriage when I've come across them, and still am of the opinion that remarriage after divorce is wrong. Period.
I don't want to get into all the whys and wherefores, because I guess the last 500 pages or so does that pretty well, I just wanted to explain to you how I could read it all and still be of the opinion I am.
God bless :-)
_____________________________
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
Psalm 122:6
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/24/2009 8:14:27 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 4566
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
I don't want to get into all the whys and wherefores, because I guess the last 500 pages or so does that pretty well, I just wanted to explain to you how I could read it all and still be of the opinion I am.
That last 500+ pages demonstrate pretty well that God permits remarriages in some cases. Right off the start, Deut. 24:1-4 makes it pretty clear that remarriages are allowed.
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אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/24/2009 9:02:14 PM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
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Only the woman is told to be said a "widow" before she remarries.. this is never said about the man. 1 Cor 7:8-9, 1 Tim 5:8-9. I hope this is an eye opener everyone!!!!
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/24/2009 10:33:08 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 4566
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mikesayen
Only the woman is told to be said a "widow" before she remarries.. this is never said about the man. 1 Cor 7:8-9, 1 Tim 5:8-9. I hope this is an eye opener everyone!!!!
When I looked up 1 Cor. 7:8-9, I found that the original Greek and every English translation that I checked said the exact opposite of what you have claimed here! Here is the definition of the term 'ἀγάμοις/unmarried' from Friberg's Analytical Greek Lexicon:
ἄγαμος, ου, ὁ and ἡ unmarried person, either man or woman, single person (1C 7.8); a woman separated or divorced from her husband (1C 7.11)
Note that not one single English version specifies the gender of this term in this verse:
GNT 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 Λέγω δὲ τοῖς ἀγάμοις καὶ ταῖς χήραις, καλὸν αὐτοῖς ἐὰν μείνωσιν ὡς κἀγώ• εἰ δὲ οὐκ ἐγκρατεύονται, γαμησάτωσαν, κρεῖττον γάρ ἐστιν γαμῆσαι ἢ πυροῦσθαι.
DBY 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows, It is good for them that they remain even as I. But if they have not control over themselves, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn.
ESV 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
KJV 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
NAU 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
NET 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 To the unmarried and widows I say that it is best for them to remain as I am. But if they do not have self-control, let them get married. For it is better to marry than to burn with sexual desire.
NIV 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
NKJ 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
NLT 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 So I say to those who aren't married and to widows-- it's better to stay unmarried, just as I am. But if they can't control themselves, they should go ahead and marry. It's better to marry than to burn with lust.
RSV 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion.
YLT 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 And I say to the unmarried and to the widows: it is good for them if they may remain even as I am; and if they have not continence -- let them marry, for it is better to marry than to burn;
I hope this is an eye opener about why biblical scholars completely reject the claim you have made here.
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אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/25/2009 2:12:11 AM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: mikesayen
Only the woman is told to be said a "widow" before she remarries.. this is never said about the man. 1 Cor 7:8-9, 1 Tim 5:8-9. I hope this is an eye opener everyone!!!!
When I looked up 1 Cor. 7:8-9, I found that the original Greek and every English translation that I checked said the exact opposite of what you have claimed here! Here is the definition of the term 'ἀãάìïéò/unmarried' from Friberg's Analytical Greek Lexicon:
ἄãáìïò, ïõ, ὁ and ἡ unmarried person, either man or woman, single person (1C 7.8); a woman separated or divorced from her husband (1C 7.11)
Note that not one single English version specifies the gender of this term in this verse:
GNT 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 Ëέãù äὲ ôïῖò ἀãάìïéò êáὶ ôáῖò ÷ήñáéò, êáëὸí áὐôïῖò ἐὰí ìåίíùóéí ὡò êἀãώ• åἰ äὲ ïὐê ἐãêñáôåύïíôáé, ãáìçóάôùóáí, êñåῖôôïí ãάñ ἐóôéí ãáìῆóáé ἢ ðõñïῦóèáé.
DBY 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows, It is good for them that they remain even as I. But if they have not control over themselves, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn.
ESV 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
KJV 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
NAU 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
NET 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 To the unmarried and widows I say that it is best for them to remain as I am. But if they do not have self-control, let them get married. For it is better to marry than to burn with sexual desire.
NIV 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
NKJ 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
NLT 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 So I say to those who aren't married and to widows-- it's better to stay unmarried, just as I am. But if they can't control themselves, they should go ahead and marry. It's better to marry than to burn with lust.
RSV 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion.
YLT 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 And I say to the unmarried and to the widows: it is good for them if they may remain even as I am; and if they have not continence -- let them marry, for it is better to marry than to burn;
I hope this is an eye opener about why biblical scholars completely reject the claim you have made here.
I was referring to the "widows" word was for just the women who's husband had died. The unmarried, though it does include anyone not married, Paul indicated he was talking to those who were not "married" for he gave instruction to the married in the next verses 10:11. But he says to the women who were formerly married to "remain unmarried" as one of the options... so in vs. 8-9 Paul was not inteneding it for all "unmarrieds". For Paul says you must be "loosed" 1 Cor 7:27-28, and 39 to be free to remarry again, even if you are suposidly burning with passion. spelling errors sorry.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/25/2009 12:18:54 PM
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risingangel
Posts: 40
Joined: 8/2/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lovenHim
Dear Tinasdad,
I am thrilled when Holy Spirit retores people to Himself, and calls them back to genuine repentance and restoration to His marriage truth. Praise God that He has burned the truth in your heart. I could not help but notice that those who disagree with you are trying to impose the legalism of Moses's civil code upon you. It is amazing to me that they would chose the one particular section that Jesus specifically threw out.
I feel better now. See, our preacher has been divorced and got married again in our church (not sure if he was saved after his divorce or before them, but I get the feeling it was afterwards). But I figure if the Lord is showing His grace by letting him stay with us (he was almost moved to another church by the Board of Directors), he was meant to be a minister here.
Aside from the fact that my mom and dad got divorced (and my mom is now married to a guy who is also saved), this bothered me. Then again, if it's a matter of believers separating from non-believers, my mom is ok as my father was not saved until recently (in the last few years).
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/25/2009 9:33:06 PM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: risingangel
quote:
ORIGINAL: lovenHim
Dear Tinasdad,
I am thrilled when Holy Spirit retores people to Himself, and calls them back to genuine repentance and restoration to His marriage truth. Praise God that He has burned the truth in your heart. I could not help but notice that those who disagree with you are trying to impose the legalism of Moses's civil code upon you. It is amazing to me that they would chose the one particular section that Jesus specifically threw out.
I feel better now. See, our preacher has been divorced and got married again in our church (not sure if he was saved after his divorce or before them, but I get the feeling it was afterwards). But I figure if the Lord is showing His grace by letting him stay with us (he was almost moved to another church by the Board of Directors), he was meant to be a minister here.
Aside from the fact that my mom and dad got divorced (and my mom is now married to a guy who is also saved), this bothered me. Then again, if it's a matter of believers separating from non-believers, my mom is ok as my father was not saved until recently (in the last few years).
the person being, saved or not, does not matter in the issues of remarriage. 1 Cor 7:15 is improperly translated by most thinking that if you were an unbeliever and had a divorced, then saved, you are free to marry since you are born again. This is not true.
For the believer and the unbeliever, if you are not loosed according to scripture, then if you remarry you commit adultery in remarriage Matt 5:31-32. The Law of Moses was written to non believers and they will be guilty of adultery in remarriage (man is only allowed to remarry if his wife committed sexual immorality in the marriage or married another man, and the woman must wait till the death of her husband freeing her to marry another 1 Cor 7:39). Adultery in remarriage, is adultery in remarriage.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/25/2009 11:16:04 PM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: therealshowlove
quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah331516
1 Corinthians 7:11
But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
This couple is not divorced so of course they cannot remarry.
This word "depart" is the same Greek word used in 1 Cor 7:10-11a as Matt 19:6.. "what God has joined togeather let not man depart (or separate - as translated in most bibles)". This woman separated the marriage thus she is told to "remain unmarried".
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/26/2009 9:41:00 AM
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risingangel
Posts: 40
Joined: 8/2/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mikesayen
quote:
ORIGINAL: risingangel
quote:
ORIGINAL: lovenHim
Dear Tinasdad,
I am thrilled when Holy Spirit retores people to Himself, and calls them back to genuine repentance and restoration to His marriage truth. Praise God that He has burned the truth in your heart. I could not help but notice that those who disagree with you are trying to impose the legalism of Moses's civil code upon you. It is amazing to me that they would chose the one particular section that Jesus specifically threw out.
I feel better now. See, our preacher has been divorced and got married again in our church (not sure if he was saved after his divorce or before them, but I get the feeling it was afterwards). But I figure if the Lord is showing His grace by letting him stay with us (he was almost moved to another church by the Board of Directors), he was meant to be a minister here.
Aside from the fact that my mom and dad got divorced (and my mom is now married to a guy who is also saved), this bothered me. Then again, if it's a matter of believers separating from non-believers, my mom is ok as my father was not saved until recently (in the last few years).
the person being, saved or not, does not matter in the issues of remarriage. 1 Cor 7:15 is improperly translated by most thinking that if you were an unbeliever and had a divorced, then saved, you are free to marry since you are born again. This is not true.
For the believer and the unbeliever, if you are not loosed according to scripture, then if you remarry you commit adultery in remarriage Matt 5:31-32. The Law of Moses was written to non believers and they will be guilty of adultery in remarriage (man is only allowed to remarry if his wife committed sexual immorality in the marriage or married another man, and the woman must wait till the death of her husband freeing her to marry another 1 Cor 7:39). Adultery in remarriage, is adultery in remarriage.
Um...
quote:
I could not help but notice that those who disagree with you are trying to impose the legalism of Moses's civil code upon you. It is amazing to me that they would chose the one particular section that Jesus specifically threw out.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/26/2009 2:15:43 PM
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Isaiah331516
Posts: 248
Joined: 1/5/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mikesayen
quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah331516
quote:
even so, about the underlined portion:
yeah, a lot of times some people spin their wheels trying to fight for a marriage that is not of God. this is sad--some ppl are in bondage being held to and made to feel guilty into staying in a marriage that is out of God's will. of course, other times-maybe more often, ppl are trying to encourage others to stay in covenant marriages (even if they don't nkow what that is)..
Could you explain more on this for your audinece to understand K.
okay.
Jesus says the two are made one flesh and that God has joined them together-that putting away/divorce is not God's doing
Matthew 19:5-6
Mark 9:6-9
Genesis 2:24 (Ephesians 5:31)
Malachi 2:16
that Moses allowed this
Matthew 19:8
Deuteronomy 24:1-4
again, but that this was/is not God's will intention desire
Jesus says he or she who marrys another commits adultery.
Matthew 5:31-32
Matthew 19:8-9
Mark 10:11-12
especially for the woman, the Bible clearly states a woman who is divorced (was married and now unmarried) is to remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband.
1 Corinthians 7:10-11
1 Corinthians 7:27 (if a virgin, never married)
1 Corinthains 7:39
Romans 7:2-3
whether or not we like who we first married, no matter how much justification we can give for marrying another it is still nevertheless not the will of God. some say ask for forgivness and remain in the remarriage. this is insufficient as those in remarriage are still living in remarriage and Jesus calls this adultery.
as hard as is is, we should remove our desire and emotion from the situation. God does not say..well your remarriage is okay because 'sam' is a great guy and everybody loves him." do God's deisres, commandments change because of what we want or because of how things appear to us? no
others say that to expect those in adulterous remarriages to divorce is 1) adding sin upon sin and/or 2) so harsh, and our Father isn't that mean
1) the sin of adultery seperates us from God. Jesus plainly says don't do it. the only way to stop doing it is to divorce (thing is-it's not really a marriage anyway. yes in the eyes of man, but to God one or both in the remarriage are still one flesh with another and cannot be one flesh with someone else)
2) God is righteous and holy above all; His love comes to us through His holiness and righteousness. He is merciful, and so He will forgive you your sin when you truly repent and walk away from it. "laying not again the foundation of repentance" Hebrews 6:1
probably the hardest part of this teaching is that it requires that 1) we lean not upon our own understanding and 2) we submit ourselves completely to God putting His will above ours and trusting Him
what an amazing work God desires to do in our first marriages even those that have been broken. we often say we give everything to Him and trust Him to everything, but remarriage shows neither of those. completely trusting in God and believing Him for His mighty works in broken marriages would be to pray and wait and let God do mighty works in us even as we wait for Him to restore our only marriage.
Matthew 19:11
Jesus says
"All men cannot receive this saying save they to whom it is given."
this was so long, i know; still, there is more.
with love in Christ
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/28/2009 4:25:10 PM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mikesayen
quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah331516
quote:
even so, about the underlined portion:
yeah, a lot of times some people spin their wheels trying to fight for a marriage that is not of God. this is sad--some ppl are in bondage being held to and made to feel guilty into staying in a marriage that is out of God's will. of course, other times-maybe more often, ppl are trying to encourage others to stay in covenant marriages (even if they don't nkow what that is)..
Could you explain more on this for your audinece to understand K.
okay.
Jesus says the two are made one flesh and that God has joined them together-that putting away/divorce is not God's doing
Matthew 19:5-6
Mark 9:6-9
Genesis 2:24 (Ephesians 5:31)
Malachi 2:16
that Moses allowed this
Matthew 19:8
Deuteronomy 24:1-4
again, but that this was/is not God's will intention desire
Jesus says he or she who marrys another commits adultery.
Matthew 5:31-32
Matthew 19:8-9
Mark 10:11-12
especially for the woman, the Bible clearly states a woman who is divorced (was married and now unmarried) is to remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband.
1 Corinthians 7:10-11
1 Corinthians 7:27 (if a virgin, never married)
1 Corinthains 7:39
Romans 7:2-3
whether or not we like who we first married, no matter how much justification we can give for marrying another it is still nevertheless not the will of God. some say ask for forgivness and remain in the remarriage. this is insufficient as those in remarriage are still living in remarriage and Jesus calls this adultery.
as hard as is is, we should remove our desire and emotion from the situation. God does not say..well your remarriage is okay because 'sam' is a great guy and everybody loves him." do God's deisres, commandments change because of what we want or because of how things appear to us? no
others say that to expect those in adulterous remarriages to divorce is 1) adding sin upon sin and/or 2) so harsh, and our Father isn't that mean
1) the sin of adultery seperates us from God. Jesus plainly says don't do it. the only way to stop doing it is to divorce (thing is-it's not really a marriage anyway. yes in the eyes of man, but to God one or both in the remarriage are still one flesh with another and cannot be one flesh with someone else)
2) God is righteous and holy above all; His love comes to us through His holiness and righteousness. He is merciful, and so He will forgive you your sin when you truly repent and walk away from it. "laying not again the foundation of repentance" Hebrews 6:1
probably the hardest part of this teaching is that it requires that 1) we lean not upon our own understanding and 2) we submit ourselves completely to God putting His will above ours and trusting Him
what an amazing work God desires to do in our first marriages even those that have been broken. we often say we give everything to Him and trust Him to everything, but remarriage shows neither of those. completely trusting in God and believing Him for His mighty works in broken marriages would be to pray and wait and let God do mighty works in us even as we wait for Him to restore our only marriage.
Matthew 19:11
Jesus says
"All men cannot receive this saying save they to whom it is given."
this was so long, i know; still, there is more.
with love in Christ
I just wanted EVERYONE to know Isiaha331516 and I both agree, that only the man was allowed according to the Law of Moses to be able to divorce his wife for sexual immorality and mary another, but the woman is bound to the "law of the husband" for life. A woman is only allowed to remarry when she is a "widow". We may disagree if a divorced person should remain married or divorce their second spouse after they married another in "adultery" according to Matt 19:9, Luke 16:18, and Mark 10:11-12.
By the word of "two or three witnesses, every word is established".
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/28/2009 5:44:43 PM
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Katie51
Posts: 227
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mikesayen
quote:
ORIGINAL: mikesayen
quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah331516
quote:
even so, about the underlined portion:
yeah, a lot of times some people spin their wheels trying to fight for a marriage that is not of God. this is sad--some ppl are in bondage being held to and made to feel guilty into staying in a marriage that is out of God's will. of course, other times-maybe more often, ppl are trying to encourage others to stay in covenant marriages (even if they don't nkow what that is)..
Could you explain more on this for your audinece to understand K.
okay.
Jesus says the two are made one flesh and that God has joined them together-that putting away/divorce is not God's doing
Matthew 19:5-6
Mark 9:6-9
Genesis 2:24 (Ephesians 5:31)
Malachi 2:16
that Moses allowed this
Matthew 19:8
Deuteronomy 24:1-4
again, but that this was/is not God's will intention desire
Jesus says he or she who marrys another commits adultery.
Matthew 5:31-32
Matthew 19:8-9
Mark 10:11-12
especially for the woman, the Bible clearly states a woman who is divorced (was married and now unmarried) is to remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband.
1 Corinthians 7:10-11
1 Corinthians 7:27 (if a virgin, never married)
1 Corinthains 7:39
Romans 7:2-3
whether or not we like who we first married, no matter how much justification we can give for marrying another it is still nevertheless not the will of God. some say ask for forgivness and remain in the remarriage. this is insufficient as those in remarriage are still living in remarriage and Jesus calls this adultery.
as hard as is is, we should remove our desire and emotion from the situation. God does not say..well your remarriage is okay because 'sam' is a great guy and everybody loves him." do God's deisres, commandments change because of what we want or because of how things appear to us? no
others say that to expect those in adulterous remarriages to divorce is 1) adding sin upon sin and/or 2) so harsh, and our Father isn't that mean
1) the sin of adultery seperates us from God. Jesus plainly says don't do it. the only way to stop doing it is to divorce (thing is-it's not really a marriage anyway. yes in the eyes of man, but to God one or both in the remarriage are still one flesh with another and cannot be one flesh with someone else)
2) God is righteous and holy above all; His love comes to us through His holiness and righteousness. He is merciful, and so He will forgive you your sin when you truly repent and walk away from it. "laying not again the foundation of repentance" Hebrews 6:1
probably the hardest part of this teaching is that it requires that 1) we lean not upon our own understanding and 2) we submit ourselves completely to God putting His will above ours and trusting Him
what an amazing work God desires to do in our first marriages even those that have been broken. we often say we give everything to Him and trust Him to everything, but remarriage shows neither of those. completely trusting in God and believing Him for His mighty works in broken marriages would be to pray and wait and let God do mighty works in us even as we wait for Him to restore our only marriage.
Matthew 19:11
Jesus says
"All men cannot receive this saying save they to whom it is given."
this was so long, i know; still, there is more.
with love in Christ
I just wanted EVERYONE to know Isiaha331516 and I both agree, that only the man was allowed according to the Law of Moses to be able to divorce his wife for sexual immorality and mary another, but the woman is bound to the "law of the husband" for life. A woman is only allowed to remarry when she is a "widow". We may disagree if a divorced person should remain married or divorce their second spouse after they married another in "adultery" according to Matt 19:9, Luke 16:18, and Mark 10:11-12.
By the word of "two or three witnesses, every word is established".
we are not under the Law anymore
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/29/2009 3:51:58 AM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Katie51
quote:
ORIGINAL: mikesayen
quote:
ORIGINAL: mikesayen
quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah331516
quote:
even so, about the underlined portion:
yeah, a lot of times some people spin their wheels trying to fight for a marriage that is not of God. this is sad--some ppl are in bondage being held to and made to feel guilty into staying in a marriage that is out of God's will. of course, other times-maybe more often, ppl are trying to encourage others to stay in covenant marriages (even if they don't nkow what that is)..
Could you explain more on this for your audinece to understand K.
okay.
Jesus says the two are made one flesh and that God has joined them together-that putting away/divorce is not God's doing
Matthew 19:5-6
Mark 9:6-9
Genesis 2:24 (Ephesians 5:31)
Malachi 2:16
that Moses allowed this
Matthew 19:8
Deuteronomy 24:1-4
again, but that this was/is not God's will intention desire
Jesus says he or she who marrys another commits adultery.
Matthew 5:31-32
Matthew 19:8-9
Mark 10:11-12
especially for the woman, the Bible clearly states a woman who is divorced (was married and now unmarried) is to remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband.
1 Corinthians 7:10-11
1 Corinthians 7:27 (if a virgin, never married)
1 Corinthains 7:39
Romans 7:2-3
whether or not we like who we first married, no matter how much justification we can give for marrying another it is still nevertheless not the will of God. some say ask for forgivness and remain in the remarriage. this is insufficient as those in remarriage are still living in remarriage and Jesus calls this adultery.
as hard as is is, we should remove our desire and emotion from the situation. God does not say..well your remarriage is okay because 'sam' is a great guy and everybody loves him." do God's deisres, commandments change because of what we want or because of how things appear to us? no
others say that to expect those in adulterous remarriages to divorce is 1) adding sin upon sin and/or 2) so harsh, and our Father isn't that mean
1) the sin of adultery seperates us from God. Jesus plainly says don't do it. the only way to stop doing it is to divorce (thing is-it's not really a marriage anyway. yes in the eyes of man, but to God one or both in the remarriage are still one flesh with another and cannot be one flesh with someone else)
2) God is righteous and holy above all; His love comes to us through His holiness and righteousness. He is merciful, and so He will forgive you your sin when you truly repent and walk away from it. "laying not again the foundation of repentance" Hebrews 6:1
probably the hardest part of this teaching is that it requires that 1) we lean not upon our own understanding and 2) we submit ourselves completely to God putting His will above ours and trusting Him
what an amazing work God desires to do in our first marriages even those that have been broken. we often say we give everything to Him and trust Him to everything, but remarriage shows neither of those. completely trusting in God and believing Him for His mighty works in broken marriages would be to pray and wait and let God do mighty works in us even as we wait for Him to restore our only marriage.
Matthew 19:11
Jesus says
"All men cannot receive this saying save they to whom it is given."
this was so long, i know; still, there is more.
with love in Christ
I just wanted EVERYONE to know Isiaha331516 and I both agree, that only the man was allowed according to the Law of Moses to be able to divorce his wife for sexual immorality and mary another, but the woman is bound to the "law of the husband" for life. A woman is only allowed to remarry when she is a "widow". We may disagree if a divorced person should remain married or divorce their second spouse after they married another in "adultery" according to Matt 19:9, Luke 16:18, and Mark 10:11-12.
By the word of "two or three witnesses, every word is established".
we are not under the Law anymore
When Paul said a woman is bound to the "law of the husband" in Rom 7:2 and "the woman is bound to the law as long as the husband is living" 1 Cor 7:39, Paul was not speaking about some Law in the Law of Moses, but a "law" or a binding agent accouding to the meaning of 'law' like..
Paul also states other non-specific “laws” that binds something to another i.e. “another law”, “law of the sin”, “law of the God”, “I find a law that is evil is present with me”, “law of the mind”, “law of the Spirit”, “law of the sin and of the death (as Rom 5:21)”. And so was used the “law of the husband”. This also seems to be shown in the statement by Paul earlier saying the Jews are not saved by the Law of works but through the “law (of) faith”. Also Paul said “Law of God” and “Law of Christ” in 1 Cor 9:21 even though he was not speaking about the Law of Moses. Paul used the word “law” was to symbolize, sometimes, something other than the Law of Moses. We might say the “law of Nature”, “law of Gravity”, “law of Physics” or some other “law” to be of a known truth or order. And Paul used it as a known fact according to God’s word.
and
Paul when making a strong judgment used the Law of Gen 3:16 to enforce his judgment for the woman to be silent in the church “as the Law also says” 1 Cor 14:34 and to have the woman ask their “husbands” at home vs. 35. The “Law” Paul was speaking about in 1 Cor 14:34 did not mention who said it or from what context. The Corinthians so knew what “Law” Paul was talking about that he felt it was unnecessary to repeat it. And that could only be the story of Adam and Eve, and the great fall (as a child would know and understand). By Paul speaking in boldness and directness we can tell this was a known subject.
When Paul said “Law” he was not only referring to the ‘Law of Moses’ but any writings of the entire Old Testament. As 1 Cor 14:21 says “In the Law it has been written” (“Law” speaking about a scripture in the book of Isaiah ). The Old Testament was also known as; “Scriptures”, “the Law and the Prophets”, or “the Law of the Lord.”
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/29/2009 11:49:40 AM
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Katie51
Posts: 227
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline
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gee mike that didnt really make any sense...you are stringing together various parts of verses from different parts of the Bible to form your particular ideas on this subject......that is not necessarily a good way to do it.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/29/2009 1:59:39 PM
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Isaiah331516
Posts: 248
Joined: 1/5/2009
Status: offline
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so, katie...if we are not under the law and i am referring to your understanding which seems to be that we are under no law.
okay, then is murder okay, and what about adultery, lying, theivery, hate, idolatry...how do you know if something is okay in God's eyes (barring direct instruction from Him in your Spirit)
what parts of the Bible do you get to not beleive? i know that may come across as rude, and for that i am terribly sorry.
do you beleive that paul's writings are included in God's Word? do we get to say, "i want to do this and not that"? no, and we won't when we love God more than we love ourselves, the world, our friends, our flesh.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/29/2009 9:26:23 PM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah331516
so, katie...if we are not under the law and i am referring to your understanding which seems to be that we are under no law.
okay, then is murder okay, and what about adultery, lying, theivery, hate, idolatry...how do you know if something is okay in God's eyes (barring direct instruction from Him in your Spirit)
what parts of the Bible do you get to not beleive? i know that may come across as rude, and for that i am terribly sorry.
do you beleive that paul's writings are included in God's Word? do we get to say, "i want to do this and not that"? no, and we won't when we love God more than we love ourselves, the world, our friends, our flesh.
It says if a woman remarries while her husband is still "living" she commits "adultery". It does not say a woman is loosed from her husband to be married to another. She is bound to him as long as he is living 1 Cor 7:39.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/30/2009 9:12:01 AM
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GrannyofSix
Posts: 128
Joined: 6/17/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
It says if a woman remarries while her husband is still "living" she commits "adultery". It does not say a woman is loosed from her husband to be married to another. She is bound to him as long as he is living 1 Cor 7:39.
If that woman is a Christian, will she go to Hell? Yes or No.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/30/2009 9:50:13 AM
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Katie51
Posts: 227
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah331516
so, katie...if we are not under the law and i am referring to your understanding which seems to be that we are under no law.
okay, then is murder okay, and what about adultery, lying, theivery, hate, idolatry...how do you know if something is okay in God's eyes (barring direct instruction from Him in your Spirit)
what parts of the Bible do you get to not beleive? i know that may come across as rude, and for that i am terribly sorry.
do you beleive that paul's writings are included in God's Word? do we get to say, "i want to do this and not that"? no, and we won't when we love God more than we love ourselves, the world, our friends, our flesh.
you post is off topic
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/30/2009 9:55:19 AM
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Katie51
Posts: 227
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline
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There is a lot of piecing together bits various scriptures in the OT and comments about what the LAW meant . We are not under the OT law and you can prove anything taking bits of scripture here and there and tossing them together. You really have to look at the big picture of God, the Bible and how Jesus related to those who were sinners (divorced, remarried, still married, never married....any kind of sinners...we are all sinners).....we are, thank Him,,,,under GRACE.
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