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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/30/2009 12:22:07 PM
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Isaiah331516
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no offense, but that sounds like a license or justification of sin.
God gave us His word to live by...our measuring stick is Jesus.
so God gave us this book of His filled with truths about Him, Jesus, etc...
He gave us directions...a sort of recipe, if you will, and you are saying we don't have to go in His direction (which is strait and narrow, btw) or 'recipe'?
He gives great warnings of those who sin...we will be judged. He tells us how not to sin. are we perfect? no, but this has seemed to become some kind of waving banner many use to excuse sin. we are called to go unto perfection, Hebrews 6.
He calls remarriage adultery (see Matthew 5, 19; Mark 10). Can it get any plainer?
blessings
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/30/2009 2:42:37 PM
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mikesayen
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Katie51
There is a lot of piecing together bits various scriptures in the OT and comments about what the LAW meant . We are not under the OT law and you can prove anything taking bits of scripture here and there and tossing them together. You really have to look at the big picture of God, the Bible and how Jesus related to those who were sinners (divorced, remarried, still married, never married....any kind of sinners...we are all sinners).....we are, thank Him,,,,under GRACE.
yes, but shall we sin for grace to abound more.. by no means. Remarriage is adultery if the woman's former husband is still living 1 Cor 7:39, and remarriage of the man is adultery if she did not commit adultery in the marriage and he tries to marry another Matt 5:31-32 and Matt 19:9a.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/30/2009 2:48:46 PM
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mikesayen
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Also, I want to add, eventhough Moses allowed man to divorce his wife according to the Law of Moses. A christian man should not divorce his wife 1 Cor 7:11b and 1 Cor 7:27-28. For we do not live accroding to the Law to do something God permitted because of the hardness of man's heart. But we walk in the Spirit to fufill all righteousness. Men you don't have a license to divorce your wife unless she is an unbeliever and want's out of the marriage. We died to the Law no longer to live by it.. for it says "cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the Law, to perform them" Gal 3:10. We can't live by one part of the Law and not another.
Walk in the Spirit! carry your cross and follow Jesus. Don't divorce.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/30/2009 2:56:27 PM
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gmcspice
Posts: 654
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quote:
mikesayen Date 6/30/2009 2:42:37 PM
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Katie51
There is a lot of piecing together bits various scriptures in the OT and comments about what the LAW meant . We are not under the OT law and you can prove anything taking bits of scripture here and there and tossing them together. You really have to look at the big picture of God, the Bible and how Jesus related to those who were sinners (divorced, remarried, still married, never married....any kind of sinners...we are all sinners).....we are, thank Him,,,,under GRACE.
yes, but shall we sin for grace to abound more.. by no means. Remarriage is adultery if the woman's former husband is still living 1 Cor 7:39, and remarriage of the man is adultery if she did not commit adultery in the marriage and he tries to marry another Matt 5:31-32 and Matt 19:9a.
And what about the ones who are divorced and already remarried?
Should we judge them and tell them to divorce again to "fix" their sin?
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/30/2009 3:03:03 PM
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mikesayen
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrannyofSix
quote:
It says if a woman remarries while her husband is still "living" she commits "adultery". It does not say a woman is loosed from her husband to be married to another. She is bound to him as long as he is living 1 Cor 7:39.
If that woman is a Christian, will she go to Hell? Yes or No.
It is not for us to know if a person decides to sin willing that they will enter the kingdom of God. Put off the deads of the flesh,,, if you continue in Him you have security...."See to it that you do not refuse Him who is speaking. For if those did not excape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less shall we escape who turn away from Him who warns from heaven" heb 12:25 See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God: that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble. go back to your first love. are you going to sin willfully after you have recieved the truth? "Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith, examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you- unless indeed you fail the test?" 2 Cor 13:5.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/30/2009 3:06:35 PM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
quote:
mikesayen Date 6/30/2009 2:42:37 PM
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Katie51
There is a lot of piecing together bits various scriptures in the OT and comments about what the LAW meant . We are not under the OT law and you can prove anything taking bits of scripture here and there and tossing them together. You really have to look at the big picture of God, the Bible and how Jesus related to those who were sinners (divorced, remarried, still married, never married....any kind of sinners...we are all sinners).....we are, thank Him,,,,under GRACE.
yes, but shall we sin for grace to abound more.. by no means. Remarriage is adultery if the woman's former husband is still living 1 Cor 7:39, and remarriage of the man is adultery if she did not commit adultery in the marriage and he tries to marry another Matt 5:31-32 and Matt 19:9a.
And what about the ones who are divorced and already remarried?
Should we judge them and tell them to divorce again to "fix" their sin?
It is clear for a woman who is divorced, "remain unmarried or reconcile with your husband" 1 cor 7:11. And clear for a man who is divorced, " don't seek to be loosed, but if you are loosed you may marry again and it is not sin' 1 Cor 7:27-28 (loosed by her committing adultery in the marriage or marrying another already). If you are remarried that is a question for Isaiah33:15-16 to answer... I can only give you what I think but am still trying to learn the truth on this.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/30/2009 3:13:00 PM
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gmcspice
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quote:
It is clear for a woman who is divorced, "remain unmarried or reconcile with your husband" 1 cor 7:11.
And what if He has already remarried and no reconciliation is possible? And what if children are involved? Is she to raise them by herself?
What if it was him who committed adultery AND divorced her for the other woman?
Is she condemned to single parent hood because of this "LAW"?
(this is a realistic situation and happens all the time).
_____________________________
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gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/30/2009 3:17:19 PM
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mikesayen
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
quote:
It is clear for a woman who is divorced, "remain unmarried or reconcile with your husband" 1 cor 7:11.
And what if He has already remarried and no reconciliation is possible? And what if children are involved? Is she to raise them by herself?
What if it was him who committed adultery AND divorced her for the other woman?
Is she condemned to single parent hood because of this "LAW"?
(this is a realistic situation and happens all the time).
she is to return to her fathers or families house, if possible. not that it is required but to help her as divorced women did in the old testament... for kin fok is for sharing of sufferings.. 1 Tim 5... help by their family.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/30/2009 3:19:07 PM
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mikesayen
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
quote:
It is clear for a woman who is divorced, "remain unmarried or reconcile with your husband" 1 cor 7:11.
And what if He has already remarried and no reconciliation is possible? And what if children are involved? Is she to raise them by herself?
What if it was him who committed adultery AND divorced her for the other woman?
Is she condemned to single parent hood because of this "LAW"?
(this is a realistic situation and happens all the time).
quote:
she is to return to her fathers or families house, if possible. not that it is required but to help her as divorced women did in the old testament... for kin fok is for sharing of sufferings.. 1 Tim 5... help by their family.
And remember, it is not because the "Law" said, but because of what Jesus the "Lord" said 1 Cor 7:10-11 is written to Christians by Paul from the Lord.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/30/2009 3:23:59 PM
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gmcspice
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quote:
And remember, it is not because the "Law" said, but because of what Jesus the "Lord" said 1 Cor 7:10-11 is written to Christians by Paul from the Lord.
I think if Paul knew some here were using his letters to put people back under bondage that Christ freed them from. He would be appalled.
And what if the woman has no family, And no one to turn to?
Is she still suppose to raise those children by herself? This causing more harm than Good as we see in today's society.
And you aren't taking into account that Christ freed the divorced And remarried woman from sin.
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/30/2009 8:28:59 PM
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Qtman
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In reading 1 Cor 7:10-11 I do not see the greek word for divorce used. What I see is the word separate and let go. In other words Paul was saying the woman should not separate from her husband and the husband should not let her go or send her away. They should reconcile to each other. It has nothing to do with divorce. Just separation as far as I can tell. Maybe some of you Greek Scholars can shed some light on it.
_____________________________
At one time Jesus was my co-pilot. Things are much better now that He and I have changed seats.
<Me & my happyplate at Lobster Hut
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/1/2009 1:42:48 AM
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mikesayen
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
In reading 1 Cor 7:10-11 I do not see the greek word for divorce used. What I see is the word separate and let go. In other words Paul was saying the woman should not separate from her husband and the husband should not let her go or send her away. They should reconcile to each other. It has nothing to do with divorce. Just separation as far as I can tell. Maybe some of you Greek Scholars can shed some light on it.
The Greek word separate is the same root word used in 1 Cor 7:10-11a, 1 Cor 7:15 "if but the unbeliever separates, let be separated" and finally the same Greek word used in Matt 19:6 "let man not separate what God joined togeather".. this was talking about the effects of a divorce.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/1/2009 7:20:24 AM
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gmcspice
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quote:
she is to return to her fathers or families house, if possible. not that it is required but to help her as divorced women did in the old testament... for kin folk is for sharing of sufferings.. 1 Tim 5... help by their family.
And what if she has no family OR her parents are in rest homes And NOT mentally capable to help her?
What if she has been completely separated from her family?
See Mike, Jesus took all this into account where you do not.
And that law of husband you keep referring to from Genesis was not a law. It was a punishment for WOMEN!!!!!!
When Jesus came And did what he did, He freed women from that punishment.
An the only LAW we are to abide is the Ten commandments. Because Jesus did.
You And Isaiah keep posting the same things over And over again but what you post does not answer the really hard questions about this topic. You two want to wrap it up in a tight, neat, little, bow when it is really very messy And damaging to all the persons involved. Divorce is messy business.
And Remarriage can be forgiven that is just a fact you two are going to have to accept
GOD FORGIVES!!!!!!! THROUGH JESUS CHRIST ALL THINGS!!!!!!!
By the way, the reason why God hates divorce is because he has been through it. He knows what it is like. God has also "remarried".
He divorced disobedient Israel and married the Church!
You really think God would not forgive and action that HE himself has been through?
Absolutely not. Israel wanted to go so he gave her a bill of divorcement in her hand and let her go and marry whom ever. God in turn chose a new bride!
If one person doesn't want it..man or woman.. let them go. We are called to peace and either one can get remarried.
Just face that fact that you have taken scripture and jumbled it together to try to convince yourselves you are right. Because that is what you have done.
Scripture says a woman can get remarried. WHY? Because CHRIST says so.
< Message edited by gmcspice -- 7/1/2009 10:19:53 AM >
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/1/2009 8:44:44 AM
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GrannyofSix
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If that woman is a Christian and divorces and gets remarried, will she go to Hell? Yes or No. It's one way or the other. No in between.
Please answer with scriptures to prove that once a person is a born-again Christian, they will be lost and go to Hell if they divorce and remarry.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/1/2009 10:21:08 AM
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gmcspice
Posts: 654
Joined: 12/26/2008
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quote:
GrannyofSix Date 7/1/2009 8:44:44 AM
If that woman is a Christian and divorces and gets remarried, will she go to Hell? Yes or No. It's one way or the other. No in between.
Please answer with scriptures to prove that once a person is a born-again Christian, they will be lost and go to Hell if they divorce and remarry.
I would like to see the scripture that says this too!
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/1/2009 5:12:50 PM
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Katie51
Posts: 227
Joined: 1/8/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
quote:
she is to return to her fathers or families house, if possible. not that it is required but to help her as divorced women did in the old testament... for kin folk is for sharing of sufferings.. 1 Tim 5... help by their family.
And what if she has no family OR her parents are in rest homes And NOT mentally capable to help her?
What if she has been completely separated from her family?
See Mike, Jesus took all this into account where you do not.
And that law of husband you keep referring to from Genesis was not a law. It was a punishment for WOMEN!!!!!!
When Jesus came And did what he did, He freed women from that punishment.
An the only LAW we are to abide is the Ten commandments. Because Jesus did.
You And Isaiah keep posting the same things over And over again but what you post does not answer the really hard questions about this topic. You two want to wrap it up in a tight, neat, little, bow when it is really very messy And damaging to all the persons involved. Divorce is messy business.
And Remarriage can be forgiven that is just a fact you two are going to have to accept
GOD FORGIVES!!!!!!! THROUGH JESUS CHRIST ALL THINGS!!!!!!!
By the way, the reason why God hates divorce is because he has been through it. He knows what it is like. God has also "remarried".
He divorced disobedient Israel and married the Church!
You really think God would not forgive and action that HE himself has been through?
Absolutely not. Israel wanted to go so he gave her a bill of divorcement in her hand and let her go and marry whom ever. God in turn chose a new bride!
If one person doesn't want it..man or woman.. let them go. We are called to peace and either one can get remarried.
Just face that fact that you have taken scripture and jumbled it together to try to convince yourselves you are right. Because that is what you have done.
Scripture says a woman can get remarried. WHY? Because CHRIST says so.
I cant add anything to your excellent post. You said it well and clearly. Thank you.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/1/2009 5:15:38 PM
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Katie51
Posts: 227
Joined: 1/8/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mikesayen
quote:
ORIGINAL: Katie51
There is a lot of piecing together bits various scriptures in the OT and comments about what the LAW meant . We are not under the OT law and you can prove anything taking bits of scripture here and there and tossing them together. You really have to look at the big picture of God, the Bible and how Jesus related to those who were sinners (divorced, remarried, still married, never married....any kind of sinners...we are all sinners).....we are, thank Him,,,,under GRACE.
yes, but shall we sin for grace to abound more.. by no means. Remarriage is adultery if the woman's former husband is still living 1 Cor 7:39, and remarriage of the man is adultery if she did not commit adultery in the marriage and he tries to marry another Matt 5:31-32 and Matt 19:9a.
So men can remarry and women cant? Ya kiddin me right? No one is says sin it up and you know that. TO say men can remarry and women cant is to put women as second class citizens, something Jesus was firmly against.
Edited TOS 9, unwelcome counsel
< Message edited by Kath -- 7/1/2009 11:52:02 PM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/2/2009 1:30:32 AM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
quote:
she is to return to her fathers or families house, if possible. not that it is required but to help her as divorced women did in the old testament... for kin folk is for sharing of sufferings.. 1 Tim 5... help by their family.
And what if she has no family OR her parents are in rest homes And NOT mentally capable to help her?
What if she has been completely separated from her family?
See Mike, Jesus took all this into account where you do not.
And that law of husband you keep referring to from Genesis was not a law. It was a punishment for WOMEN!!!!!!
When Jesus came And did what he did, He freed women from that punishment.
An the only LAW we are to abide is the Ten commandments. Because Jesus did.
You And Isaiah keep posting the same things over And over again but what you post does not answer the really hard questions about this topic. You two want to wrap it up in a tight, neat, little, bow when it is really very messy And damaging to all the persons involved. Divorce is messy business.
And Remarriage can be forgiven that is just a fact you two are going to have to accept
GOD FORGIVES!!!!!!! THROUGH JESUS CHRIST ALL THINGS!!!!!!!
By the way, the reason why God hates divorce is because he has been through it. He knows what it is like. God has also "remarried".
He divorced disobedient Israel and married the Church!
You really think God would not forgive and action that HE himself has been through?
Absolutely not. Israel wanted to go so he gave her a bill of divorcement in her hand and let her go and marry whom ever. God in turn chose a new bride!
If one person doesn't want it..man or woman.. let them go. We are called to peace and either one can get remarried.
Just face that fact that you have taken scripture and jumbled it together to try to convince yourselves you are right. Because that is what you have done.
Scripture says a woman can get remarried. WHY? Because CHRIST says so.
Only the man is allowed to remarry while his spouse is living 1 Cor 7:27-28 if she committed sexual immorality in the marriage or married another man after the divorce. The woman is bound to the husband for life because she was put "under man" in Genises. Since the man still has to work by the sweat of his brow and the woman still has pain in childbearing, the woman is still "under" her husband, that is why we practice headship in a marriage Eph 5:23-31. It says in Rom 7:2 in the Greek the "under-man woman" is bound to the law of her husband. And that is why Paul says a woman is bound to a law of her husband until he sleeps (even if there was a divorce) .. its the bondage of a figurative but real law that binds her to him, as long as he is living (Rom 7:1 understanding of being bound by law rules that apply here).
Also, 1 Cor 7:15 does not give permission of remarriage, it just tells the christian man or woman to let the unbeliver be separated in "such case" . To understand the allowence of remarriage Paul wrote to the men, separately, in 1 Cor 7:27-28 and finally about the remarriage of a woman in 1 Cor 7:39 (as well as other directions).
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/2/2009 1:36:40 AM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrannyofSix
If that woman is a Christian and divorces and gets remarried, will she go to Hell? Yes or No. It's one way or the other. No in between.
Please answer with scriptures to prove that once a person is a born-again Christian, they will be lost and go to Hell if they divorce and remarry.
quote:
It is not for us to know if a person decides to sin willing that they will enter the kingdom of God. Put off the deads of the flesh,,, if you continue in Him you have security...."See to it that you do not refuse Him who is speaking. For if those did not excape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less shall we escape who turn away from Him who warns from heaven" heb 12:25 See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God: that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble. go back to your first love. are you going to sin willfully after you have recieved the truth? "Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith, examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you- unless indeed you fail the test?" 2 Cor 13:5.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/2/2009 7:16:08 AM
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gmcspice
Posts: 654
Joined: 12/26/2008
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quote:
The woman is bound to the husband for life because she was put "under man" in Genesis.
And Christ set woman free from this curse when he died and rose again!!!
John 8:36
Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed
John 8:32
And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free
We are no longer under that Law as YOU SEE IT, Mike.
The only "laws" we are to obey now are the 10 commandments which are summed up in these two.
Luke 10:27
So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’
Matthew 22
37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
Like I have said I don't know how many times to you Mike, you are trying to put women back under the bondage that Christ took away.
By the way God is a lot bigger than the Bible and how you would like to contain him to just the Bible. Scripture says that Jesus did so many things that the Bible could not hold all of it. Unlike you I don't put God in a box. Any and everything is possible with God because he says so.
So, anyone can and will be forgiven of divorce AND remarriage if they ask for it and they don't have to divorce again to get it. And a woman can get married again even if her first husband is still alive no matter what YOU have to say about it, God always has the last say.
< Message edited by gmcspice -- 7/2/2009 7:22:37 AM >
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/2/2009 8:12:22 AM
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GrannyofSix
Posts: 128
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quote:
It is not for us to know if a person decides to sin willing that they will enter the kingdom of God. Put off the deads of the flesh,,, if you continue in Him you have security...."See to it that you do not refuse Him who is speaking. For if those did not excape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less shall we escape who turn away from Him who warns from heaven" heb 12:25 See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God: that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble. go back to your first love. are you going to sin willfully after you have recieved the truth? "Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith, examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you- unless indeed you fail the test?" 2 Cor 13:5.
So, in other words, you do not believe in Eternal Salvation, that once a person is saved, they can not lose their salvation?
You didn't answer my question. You skirted around it. Would a born-again Christian go to Hell if they divorced (woman) and remarried (both man or woman)?
It's a simple question and there are only two possible answers: Yes or No.
Many posters here have condemned divorcees to Hell and remarried Christians to Hell with all kinds of scriptures, but they don't go together if you believe OSAS.
Does God forgive sins or not? Does He forget our sins after He forgives them or not? Does He place them as far as the East is from the West or not? If Yes, then they do not exist.
And finally, WHY do people look at Divorce/Remarriage as though it is a sin that can not be forgiven but allow for all other sins to be? Even murder - which is taking a life that can never be restored.
I am not arguing because I have my own beliefs that I have not expressed here. I am just challenging people to speak plainly with Biblical scriptures to back up what they say.
< Message edited by GrannyofSix -- 7/2/2009 11:55:58 AM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/2/2009 9:28:53 AM
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laura...
Posts: 3277
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
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quote:
I am just challenging people to speak plainly with Biblical scriptures to back up what they say.
Good luck with that.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/2/2009 10:11:49 AM
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gmcspice
Posts: 654
Joined: 12/26/2008
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quote:
Many posters here have condemned divorcees to Hell and remarried Christians to Hell with all kinds of scriptures, but they don't go together if you believe OSAS.
They don't go together even if one does not believe in OSAS.
quote:
Does God forgive sins or not? Does He forget our sins after He forgives them or not? Does He place them as far as the East is from the West or not? If Yes, then they do not exist.
You got this right! that is why we can't condemn anyone of any sin.
quote:
And finally, WHY do people look at Divorce/Remarriage as though it is a sin that can not be forgiven but allow for all other sins to be? Even murder - which is taking a life that can never be restored.
God DOES restore. That is WHY he sent Christ. To restore and reconcile us back to God. TO forgive ALL sin.
Amen sister on your post!
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/3/2009 12:31:15 AM
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Dakotasunbeam
Posts: 342
Joined: 6/2/2005
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline
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It just occurred to me while reading this . . . you guys are all arguing about the Law. Are you still under tha law, where divorce is permitted and hearts are hardened? God's ideas are abundantly clear that he makes two flesh. But those who argue about the law, have the law to live by, and divorce. Jesus made that distinction when He answered the scribes, lawyers and pharasees. He explained that divorce was for the hardness of mens hearts. It was the legal provision. And if you measure everything by the law, then you must live by it. But if you want mercy and forgiveness and reconcilliation from Christ then you will need to step from under the law, take up your cross, accept Christ's grace, and walk in love with a heart of flesh as He promised those who follow Him would have.
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