quote:

ORIGINAL: gmcspice

quote:

when Paul say the "law of faith" or the "law of the spirit". how do you read this? Paul in these situations is not talking about the Law of Moses, but another law....God's law..like the law of the woman being submissive to her husband said in 1 cor 14:34 speaking about Gods law in Gen 3:16 not the law of Moses.

HUH?

The Law given to Moses was from WHO? GOD!!!!!!!!!

The original Law of God was the Law given to Moses DIRECTLY from God. I guess you don't get that do you?

Again, Genesis 3:16 WAS A PUNISHMENT FOR WOMEN NOT A LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Talk about pharisees & saducees. Mike you would sure fit right in with them.
All you keep hollaring is THE LAW THE LAW!!
We are under grace NOT the Law. And why are you making up laws to suit your point of view?

And You forget that God is a divorcee and a remarried person too.
God does forgives a woman for divorcing her adulterous, abusive husband(only reason for divorce) and finding a Godly husband. So you really must get over yourself on this and get with God.

quote:


"under-man"

quote:

ORIGINAL: mikesayen

By the way guys, Isaiah331516 father died, could you pray for her? Thank you, please.

quote:

ORIGINAL: gmcspice

Mike again, Genesis 3:16 was a punishment for eating the forbidden fruit, not a law.
When Christ came, That became null and void once he sacrificed.
And like I said, the Laws of Moses ARE what Paul was equating to not some other law you have made up.

quote:


"under-man"

And where has woman ever been under man like you say?

You do realize that it is this wrong doctrine you are trying to pass that has caused spousal abuse and the falsehood that a woman is a mans
property not better than his car, don't you?
Woman is NOT a piece of property. She as created as a man's help mate to stand at his side. NOT for man to lord it over.

quote:

Paul says the reason the woman is bound to the “law of the husband” is because she being “under-man” (in Greek Rom 7:2) becomes bound to him for “life”.
The “law” also seems to be shown in the statement by Paul earlier saying the Jews are not saved by the “Law” of works but through the “law (of) faith”. Also Paul said “Law of God” and “Law of Christ” in 1 Cor 9:21 even though he was not speaking about the “Law of Moses”. Paul used the word “law” was to symbolize, sometimes, something other than the Law of Moses. We might say the “law of Nature”, “law of Gravity”, “law of Physics” or some other “law” to be of a known truth or order. And Paul used it as a known fact according to God’s word.

Under-man, woman
Rom 7:2 this sentence says in Greek, “The for (for the) under-man woman to the living man, having been (has been) bound (of) law.”

The “law” of the husband, was a play-on-words, which Paul used to show when you become “under” a “law” of something (as of The Law of Moses) the law “lords-over” you, in which you “were held by”.

quote:

The "law of Moses" was a blood covenant that they became under for "blessings and cursings" but it says in Gal chap 3-4 we are under the covenant of Abraham. The whole bible is the "law of God" so we must test all things..

quote:

Paul says the reason the woman is bound to the “law of the husband” is because she being “under-man” (in Greek Rom 7:2) becomes bound to him for “life”.

quote:

we are no longer under the law. No matter how you explain it. In Christ all are equal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul

If they have broken the covenant then it is broken. If a vase is smashed, it is smashed. It cannot be smashed fpr one and whole for the other. There are things that one spouse does that smashes the marriage covenant and that is why Jesus allows divorce in these cases. Never does God hold one person accountable for what another does. if one spouse leaves or is sexually unfaithful, then the marriage is over and the other spouse is free, just as they would have been if their spouse had been stoned to death in the Old Testament.Why do we think that God thinks that something that is SOOO serious as to have resulted in death suddenly becomes so acceptable that the spouse cannnot even be released from it today?.
There is no point in us hanging on to a smashed marriage. The marriage is broken and our vows are now worthless. We are free to move on and allow our wonderful God to restore to us ALL that we have lost, and that may well be another marriage to a godly spouse.He is so good like that, and He loves to restore and heal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: northstar

quote:

ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul

If they have broken the covenant then it is broken. If a vase is smashed, it is smashed. It cannot be smashed fpr one and whole for the other. There are things that one spouse does that smashes the marriage covenant and that is why Jesus allows divorce in these cases. Never does God hold one person accountable for what another does. if one spouse leaves or is sexually unfaithful, then the marriage is over and the other spouse is free, just as they would have been if their spouse had been stoned to death in the Old Testament.Why do we think that God thinks that something that is SOOO serious as to have resulted in death suddenly becomes so acceptable that the spouse cannnot even be released from it today?.
There is no point in us hanging on to a smashed marriage. The marriage is broken and our vows are now worthless. We are free to move on and allow our wonderful God to restore to us ALL that we have lost, and that may well be another marriage to a godly spouse.He is so good like that, and He loves to restore and heal.

Under the law we would all be worthy of death, so how is adultery any worse than anything we've done?

The Lord's prayer says 'forgive us as we forgive others'...and another verse says that if we don't forgive, God won't forgive us.

I know of an Iranian lady who left her husband and didn't want to even talk to him. The first thing she did after becoming a Christian was to phone him and tell him he was welcome to come back. She said that Jesus had forgiven her for everything she'd ever done, so how could she not forgive him.

Rather different from our western 'grace filled' kind of living, where we would say, oh well it happened before I was a Christian...or, well I do forgive him but I just can't let him come back. If a person says that then they haven't really forgiven.

Also, there is a least one marriage in my familly which has survived adultery, so I know it can be done. It's just a matter of whether we'll extend the same kind of forgiveness to them as we've been shown by God, or not.


Oh, and with regards to churches not supporting their struggling members...that's not God's fault now is it. And our unwillingness to help people doesn't change His standards either.

It says in the book of James
James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

James 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

So according to the Bible if we don't help our brothers and sisters then our faith is dead. I don't want to be accused by God of having a 'dead' faith when I stand before Him.

quote:


Dave
OY!!!!

There is no way to address either of these in this thread. (way too Off topic) Both of these views of the "law" are wrong.

quote:

tha lady you mentioned left her husband, so she was in the wrong unless he committed adultery. In many cases Christians are the ones who have been left, or who have been sinned against and have no choice in the matter. In some cases the spouse doesnt want to come back and goes off with another person. In other cases the behaviour of one spouse is so serious that they can never be a reconciliation.In other cases the trust has been completely destroyed by the betrayal. There are many senarios where the marriage ends and often for the best.
Jesus recognised the seriousness of unfaithfullness and that is why he allowed for the spouse to divorce.He recognised that sexual immorality breaks the covenant, and gives the other spouse a way out if they cannot ever go back or have their spouse back.
The promise to be faithful has been broken.

quote:

Oh, and with regards to churches not supporting their struggling members...that's not God's fault now is it. And our unwillingness to help people doesn't change His standards either.

It says in the book of James
James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

James 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
So according to the Bible if we don't help our brothers and sisters then our faith is dead. I don't want to be accused by God of having a 'dead' faith when I stand before Him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: gmcspice

quote:


Dave
OY!!!!

There is no way to address either of these in this thread. (way too Off topic) Both of these views of the "law" are wrong.

Are you saying that in Christ we aren't equal?

That is what the Word of God says.
That we are free!
A woman can divorce an adulterous husband if reconciliation is not possible because HE broke his covenant(word) to her.
Are you saying this is false?
God says there is power in our words and Christ says it also.
We must be careful of what we say. Doesn't God say to bridle the tongue?
If we give our word, then break it then what do we do?
It is alright for a man to break his word and not be cut off?
But a woman if she does, she is cast down and cut off for breaking her word and can no longer marry again?
You really believe God says this?

quote:

tha lady you mentioned left her husband, so she was in the wrong unless he committed adultery. In many cases Christians are the ones who have been left, or who have been sinned against and have no choice in the matter. In some cases the spouse doesnt want to come back and goes off with another person. In other cases the behaviour of one spouse is so serious that they can never be a reconciliation.In other cases the trust has been completely destroyed by the betrayal. There are many senarios where the marriage ends and often for the best.
Jesus recognised the seriousness of unfaithfullness and that is why he allowed for the spouse to divorce.He recognised that sexual immorality breaks the covenant, and gives the other spouse a way out if they cannot ever go back or have their spouse back.
The promise to be faithful has been broken.

This is so true, I would not add anything to it. This says it all.

quote:

Oh, and with regards to churches not supporting their struggling members...that's not God's fault now is it. And our unwillingness to help people doesn't change His standards either.

It says in the book of James
James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

James 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
So according to the Bible if we don't help our brothers and sisters then our faith is dead. I don't want to be accused by God of having a 'dead' faith when I stand before Him.

.



That includes forgiving them and allowing remarriage as long as it is within biblical grounds.

Judge not least ye be judged.
So, if you don't want to be judged, then stop passing judgement and thinking wrong that God doesn't allow divorce or remarriage when the Bible give stipulations for it not to mention that God is a divorcee himself.
OH and he is remarried too!

quote:

ORIGINAL: northstar

quote:

ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul

If they have broken the covenant then it is broken. If a vase is smashed, it is smashed. It cannot be smashed fpr one and whole for the other. There are things that one spouse does that smashes the marriage covenant and that is why Jesus allows divorce in these cases. Never does God hold one person accountable for what another does. if one spouse leaves or is sexually unfaithful, then the marriage is over and the other spouse is free, just as they would have been if their spouse had been stoned to death in the Old Testament.Why do we think that God thinks that something that is SOOO serious as to have resulted in death suddenly becomes so acceptable that the spouse cannnot even be released from it today?.
There is no point in us hanging on to a smashed marriage. The marriage is broken and our vows are now worthless. We are free to move on and allow our wonderful God to restore to us ALL that we have lost, and that may well be another marriage to a godly spouse.He is so good like that, and He loves to restore and heal.

Under the law we would all be worthy of death, so how is adultery any worse than anything we've done?

The Lord's prayer says 'forgive us as we forgive others'...and another verse says that if we don't forgive, God won't forgive us.

I know of an Iranian lady who left her husband and didn't want to even talk to him. The first thing she did after becoming a Christian was to phone him and tell him he was welcome to come back. She said that Jesus had forgiven her for everything she'd ever done, so how could she not forgive him.

Rather different from our western 'grace filled' kind of living, where we would say, oh well it happened before I was a Christian...or, well I do forgive him but I just can't let him come back. If a person says that then they haven't really forgiven.

Also, there is a least one marriage in my familly which has survived adultery, so I know it can be done. It's just a matter of whether we'll extend the same kind of forgiveness to them as we've been shown by God, or not.


Oh, and with regards to churches not supporting their struggling members...that's not God's fault now is it. And our unwillingness to help people doesn't change His standards either.

It says in the book of James
James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

James 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

So according to the Bible if we don't help our brothers and sisters then our faith is dead. I don't want to be accused by God of having a 'dead' faith when I stand before Him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul

quote:

ORIGINAL: northstar

quote:

ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul

If they have broken the covenant then it is broken. If a vase is smashed, it is smashed. It cannot be smashed fpr one and whole for the other. There are things that one spouse does that smashes the marriage covenant and that is why Jesus allows divorce in these cases. Never does God hold one person accountable for what another does. if one spouse leaves or is sexually unfaithful, then the marriage is over and the other spouse is free, just as they would have been if their spouse had been stoned to death in the Old Testament.Why do we think that God thinks that something that is SOOO serious as to have resulted in death suddenly becomes so acceptable that the spouse cannnot even be released from it today?.
There is no point in us hanging on to a smashed marriage. The marriage is broken and our vows are now worthless. We are free to move on and allow our wonderful God to restore to us ALL that we have lost, and that may well be another marriage to a godly spouse.He is so good like that, and He loves to restore and heal.

Under the law we would all be worthy of death, so how is adultery any worse than anything we've done?

The Lord's prayer says 'forgive us as we forgive others'...and another verse says that if we don't forgive, God won't forgive us.

I know of an Iranian lady who left her husband and didn't want to even talk to him. The first thing she did after becoming a Christian was to phone him and tell him he was welcome to come back. She said that Jesus had forgiven her for everything she'd ever done, so how could she not forgive him.

Rather different from our western 'grace filled' kind of living, where we would say, oh well it happened before I was a Christian...or, well I do forgive him but I just can't let him come back. If a person says that then they haven't really forgiven.

Also, there is a least one marriage in my familly which has survived adultery, so I know it can be done. It's just a matter of whether we'll extend the same kind of forgiveness to them as we've been shown by God, or not.


Oh, and with regards to churches not supporting their struggling members...that's not God's fault now is it. And our unwillingness to help people doesn't change His standards either.

It says in the book of James
James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

James 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

So according to the Bible if we don't help our brothers and sisters then our faith is dead. I don't want to be accused by God of having a 'dead' faith when I stand before Him.

yes some marriages do survive adultery but that is totally up to the one who is cheated on. Some people would never be able to trust again if it happened to them and others could never bring themselves to ever have sex with their spouses again and I can understand that completely.We are all different and the circumstances are all different. I would never tell anyone that they must have their spouse back who has had one or more affairs, that is their choice and their decision. My brothers wife had 4 affairs and had no intention in going back to him, it isnt always possible.
He forgave the first 2 (he isnt a Christisn by the way) but there gets a point where there can be no trust or respect left.
Oh and what you said about helping members and the verses you quoted, I find that rather ironic as you and so many others here condemn and judge others all the time on this subject. What good is it if you give someone a bit of money them tell them that they are condemned for being divorced and they can never remarry, even though Jesus clearly said they could for certain reasons.
Jesus knows that unfaithfullness is so destructive that he allows divorce for it. if He thinks that then who are we to tell others that they must have their unfaithful spouse back at all costs.

quote:

well I do forgive him but I just can't let him come back. If a person says that then they haven't really forgiven.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hnt

quote:

well I do forgive him but I just can't let him come back. If a person says that then they haven't really forgiven.

I'm sorry but I never understood this stand. Its strange how humans can claim they know when someone forgiveness is geniune in all cases.

You can forgive an unrepentant spouse, but you can't always allow them back if they are still unrepentant. There is a level of trust we forget about.

Forgiveness doesn't equal trust. Scripture doesn't state that. Man may have added that requirement, but it still not in THERE!

Reconcilation works when both parties place their best efforts forward, and allow God to take the wheel. This is what God truly wishes for us, and wishes us to have.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mikesayen

quote:

ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul

quote:

ORIGINAL: northstar

quote:

ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul

If they have broken the covenant then it is broken. If a vase is smashed, it is smashed. It cannot be smashed fpr one and whole for the other. There are things that one spouse does that smashes the marriage covenant and that is why Jesus allows divorce in these cases. Never does God hold one person accountable for what another does. if one spouse leaves or is sexually unfaithful, then the marriage is over and the other spouse is free, just as they would have been if their spouse had been stoned to death in the Old Testament.Why do we think that God thinks that something that is SOOO serious as to have resulted in death suddenly becomes so acceptable that the spouse cannnot even be released from it today?.
There is no point in us hanging on to a smashed marriage. The marriage is broken and our vows are now worthless. We are free to move on and allow our wonderful God to restore to us ALL that we have lost, and that may well be another marriage to a godly spouse.He is so good like that, and He loves to restore and heal.

Under the law we would all be worthy of death, so how is adultery any worse than anything we've done?

The Lord's prayer says 'forgive us as we forgive others'...and another verse says that if we don't forgive, God won't forgive us.

I know of an Iranian lady who left her husband and didn't want to even talk to him. The first thing she did after becoming a Christian was to phone him and tell him he was welcome to come back. She said that Jesus had forgiven her for everything she'd ever done, so how could she not forgive him.

Rather different from our western 'grace filled' kind of living, where we would say, oh well it happened before I was a Christian...or, well I do forgive him but I just can't let him come back. If a person says that then they haven't really forgiven.

Also, there is a least one marriage in my familly which has survived adultery, so I know it can be done. It's just a matter of whether we'll extend the same kind of forgiveness to them as we've been shown by God, or not.


Oh, and with regards to churches not supporting their struggling members...that's not God's fault now is it. And our unwillingness to help people doesn't change His standards either.

It says in the book of James
James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

James 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

So according to the Bible if we don't help our brothers and sisters then our faith is dead. I don't want to be accused by God of having a 'dead' faith when I stand before Him.

yes some marriages do survive adultery but that is totally up to the one who is cheated on. Some people would never be able to trust again if it happened to them and others could never bring themselves to ever have sex with their spouses again and I can understand that completely.We are all different and the circumstances are all different. I would never tell anyone that they must have their spouse back who has had one or more affairs, that is their choice and their decision. My brothers wife had 4 affairs and had no intention in going back to him, it isnt always possible.
He forgave the first 2 (he isnt a Christisn by the way) but there gets a point where there can be no trust or respect left.
Oh and what you said about helping members and the verses you quoted, I find that rather ironic as you and so many others here condemn and judge others all the time on this subject. What good is it if you give someone a bit of money them tell them that they are condemned for being divorced and they can never remarry, even though Jesus clearly said they could for certain reasons.
Jesus knows that unfaithfullness is so destructive that he allows divorce for it. if He thinks that then who are we to tell others that they must have their unfaithful spouse back at all costs.

remember only the man was allowed to divorce his wife for sexual immorality, to be able to marry another, according to the Law of Moses But it says the Lord "charges" men not to "leave" their wives or woman not to "separate" from their husbands 1 Cor 7:10-11. Paul says a woman is bound to the "law" of her husband "as long as he is living" but when he dies or sleeps she is free to marry another. Paul only said the man when "loosed" 1 Cor 7:27-28 from his wife is able to marry another, while she is still living. check out Rom 7:1-3. love from your brother. michael

quote:

ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul

quote:

ORIGINAL: hnt

quote:

well I do forgive him but I just can't let him come back. If a person says that then they haven't really forgiven.

I'm sorry but I never understood this stand. Its strange how humans can claim they know when someone forgiveness is geniune in all cases.

You can forgive an unrepentant spouse, but you can't always allow them back if they are still unrepentant. There is a level of trust we forget about.

Forgiveness doesn't equal trust. Scripture doesn't state that. Man may have added that requirement, but it still not in THERE!

Reconcilation works when both parties place their best efforts forward, and allow God to take the wheel. This is what God truly wishes for us, and wishes us to have.

I agree totally
Forgiveness and reconciliation are 2 different things. You can forgive a person but for many reasons you will never be reconciled to them.I know a family where the children were sexually abused by their father. They have, with Gods helps been able to forgive him, but he isnt to be trusted and therefore they have no contact with him.he has let them down too many times and God has blessed them with a brilliant step father who they have a brilliant relationship with.
Many will forgive with Gods help but many cannot trust again.Even if the spouse is repentant, there can be no marriage is the respect and trust is gone. Unfaithfullness is the most appalling betrayal and many just cannot carry on with that marriage and I can understand that totally.

quote:

ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul

quote:

ORIGINAL: mikesayen

quote:

ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul

quote:

ORIGINAL: northstar

quote:

ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul

If they have broken the covenant then it is broken. If a vase is smashed, it is smashed. It cannot be smashed fpr one and whole for the other. There are things that one spouse does that smashes the marriage covenant and that is why Jesus allows divorce in these cases. Never does God hold one person accountable for what another does. if one spouse leaves or is sexually unfaithful, then the marriage is over and the other spouse is free, just as they would have been if their spouse had been stoned to death in the Old Testament.Why do we think that God thinks that something that is SOOO serious as to have resulted in death suddenly becomes so acceptable that the spouse cannnot even be released from it today?.
There is no point in us hanging on to a smashed marriage. The marriage is broken and our vows are now worthless. We are free to move on and allow our wonderful God to restore to us ALL that we have lost, and that may well be another marriage to a godly spouse.He is so good like that, and He loves to restore and heal.

Under the law we would all be worthy of death, so how is adultery any worse than anything we've done?

The Lord's prayer says 'forgive us as we forgive others'...and another verse says that if we don't forgive, God won't forgive us.

I know of an Iranian lady who left her husband and didn't want to even talk to him. The first thing she did after becoming a Christian was to phone him and tell him he was welcome to come back. She said that Jesus had forgiven her for everything she'd ever done, so how could she not forgive him.

Rather different from our western 'grace filled' kind of living, where we would say, oh well it happened before I was a Christian...or, well I do forgive him but I just can't let him come back. If a person says that then they haven't really forgiven.

Also, there is a least one marriage in my familly which has survived adultery, so I know it can be done. It's just a matter of whether we'll extend the same kind of forgiveness to them as we've been shown by God, or not.


Oh, and with regards to churches not supporting their struggling members...that's not God's fault now is it. And our unwillingness to help people doesn't change His standards either.

It says in the book of James
James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

James 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

So according to the Bible if we don't help our brothers and sisters then our faith is dead. I don't want to be accused by God of having a 'dead' faith when I stand before Him.

yes some marriages do survive adultery but that is totally up to the one who is cheated on. Some people would never be able to trust again if it happened to them and others could never bring themselves to ever have sex with their spouses again and I can understand that completely.We are all different and the circumstances are all different. I would never tell anyone that they must have their spouse back who has had one or more affairs, that is their choice and their decision. My brothers wife had 4 affairs and had no intention in going back to him, it isnt always possible.
He forgave the first 2 (he isnt a Christisn by the way) but there gets a point where there can be no trust or respect left.
Oh and what you said about helping members and the verses you quoted, I find that rather ironic as you and so many others here condemn and judge others all the time on this subject. What good is it if you give someone a bit of money them tell them that they are condemned for being divorced and they can never remarry, even though Jesus clearly said they could for certain reasons.
Jesus knows that unfaithfullness is so destructive that he allows divorce for it. if He thinks that then who are we to tell others that they must have their unfaithful spouse back at all costs.

remember only the man was allowed to divorce his wife for sexual immorality, to be able to marry another, according to the Law of Moses But it says the Lord "charges" men not to "leave" their wives or woman not to "separate" from their husbands 1 Cor 7:10-11. Paul says a woman is bound to the "law" of her husband "as long as he is living" but when he dies or sleeps she is free to marry another. Paul only said the man when "loosed" 1 Cor 7:27-28 from his wife is able to marry another, while she is still living. check out Rom 7:1-3. love from your brother. michael

I know several women who were clearly led by God to divorce their husbands after their serious sexual sins. Your opinion is that they cannot, you are entitled to that opinion, but it isnt what others have read in the Bible. Yes a wife is bound, until divorce means that she is no longer his wife.Where did Jesus say to the woman at the well that she was still married to the first husband? He didnt, He recognised all of her marriages as being marriages, and not just the first.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tz3

Sorry All, I got sucked into an earlier post and didn't realize how long this one had been around so my above post while still accurate may seem out of place. Your welcome to pick it apart if you wish, but your not going to change my mind. Being the child of divorced parents, having come close to considering divorce in my own marriage because of abuse, and now being a widow who has been told my grieving is no different then that of a person who is experiencing divorce I have studied this topic especially when asked to minister to divorced people out of my own grief, which I still don't see how I can do this as each case of divorce has it's own set of complications and some had no choice they were just served papers out of the blue one day. I have real compassion for this group as they have been rejected and I believe that for them Jesus knew what he was doing when He said that the Father honors the Mosaic law even though it wasn't what He ever intended in the beginning.

I further believe that if one spouse has immediately moved on and remarried having caused the other spouse to sin what is the point. All hope of reconciliation is lost. This is where the Bible becomes silent and gray. It never says that the rejected spouse should not ever remarry at this point and I think God did this on purpose because he new our sinful hearts. If you can not control yourselves then it is okay to marry; better to marry then to burn with lust. At which point this is a personal issue between you and God only the two of you can work out. If you marry again I believe as long as there has been forgiveness and repentance for the past divorce the new marriage should be not just blessed but be a blessing of healing and restoration.

Of course this is something that should be researched and addressed way before the rejected spouse puts themselves in a position of being tempted. There are those temptations that we knowingly run into or even seek out, however, for some it is the need to be in a relationship is so strong that to remain forever single would be a sentence to living hell here on earth. God wants us to choose to be single whole heatedly for the advancement of the King dome of God not half heatedly because we continue to grieve and desire what we need. If you need a spouse I don't think God is ever going to say no you can't have one, but he will give you help if you choose not go that path in order to help keep you from sinning as this is your desire to remain single. I hope I have explained this properly.

What I struggle with is being put into the position of someone trying to get me to say they haven't sinned or they are forgiven. I believe this is wrong for them to do because I am not God. I was not the one offended so I can not forgive them. They must seek forgiveness from God the Father through Jesus Christ. Once they have done this the rest falls into line. I understand that part of this process is seeking to understand the scriptures in order to gain forgiveness and peace is pivotal to the persons healing process, and I applaud everyone on here for attempting to help with that but really it is on a case by case basis and to argue about God's word as if Jesus Christ didn't exist and everything is so black and white is not only wrong because we have been commanded to agree and not argue but it is not whole in it's approach. Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law not replace it, therefore you have to interpret the old in light of the new and the new in light of the old. Surface con traditions are made clear as no one part of the Bible will Contradict what the other part says, but I feel we get a bit off track in helping a brother or sister seeking forgiveness,wisdom, understanding and peace on this topic when we argue and come across black and white or even strongly word things in a way that comes across condemning based on a part of the picture not the whole picture. Or as if there is one answer for all which IMHO there clearly is not. In which case we have not helped anyone understand anything just gotten defensive.

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Once you became a christian you died to sin but became alive through Christ. you put all sin to death to fulfill the righteous requirements of the Law by 100% walking in the Spirit. You work out you salvation but continuing daily in the faith as when you first believed. Put to death, totally, the deeds of the flesh so that you may live.

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ORIGINAL: mikesayen

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ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul

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ORIGINAL: mikesayen

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ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul

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ORIGINAL: northstar

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ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul

If they have broken the covenant then it is broken. If a vase is smashed, it is smashed. It cannot be smashed fpr one and whole for the other. There are things that one spouse does that smashes the marriage covenant and that is why Jesus allows divorce in these cases. Never does God hold one person accountable for what another does. if one spouse leaves or is sexually unfaithful, then the marriage is over and the other spouse is free, just as they would have been if their spouse had been stoned to death in the Old Testament.Why do we think that God thinks that something that is SOOO serious as to have resulted in death suddenly becomes so acceptable that the spouse cannnot even be released from it today?.
There is no point in us hanging on to a smashed marriage. The marriage is broken and our vows are now worthless. We are free to move on and allow our wonderful God to restore to us ALL that we have lost, and that may well be another marriage to a godly spouse.He is so good like that, and He loves to restore and heal.

Under the law we would all be worthy of death, so how is adultery any worse than anything we've done?

The Lord's prayer says 'forgive us as we forgive others'...and another verse says that if we don't forgive, God won't forgive us.

I know of an Iranian lady who left her husband and didn't want to even talk to him. The first thing she did after becoming a Christian was to phone him and tell him he was welcome to come back. She said that Jesus had forgiven her for everything she'd ever done, so how could she not forgive him.

Rather different from our western 'grace filled' kind of living, where we would say, oh well it happened before I was a Christian...or, well I do forgive him but I just can't let him come back. If a person says that then they haven't really forgiven.

Also, there is a least one marriage in my familly which has survived adultery, so I know it can be done. It's just a matter of whether we'll extend the same kind of forgiveness to them as we've been shown by God, or not.


Oh, and with regards to churches not supporting their struggling members...that's not God's fault now is it. And our unwillingness to help people doesn't change His standards either.

It says in the book of James
James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

James 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

So according to the Bible if we don't help our brothers and sisters then our faith is dead. I don't want to be accused by God of having a 'dead' faith when I stand before Him.

yes some marriages do survive adultery but that is totally up to the one who is cheated on. Some people would never be able to trust again if it happened to them and others could never bring themselves to ever have sex with their spouses again and I can understand that completely.We are all different and the circumstances are all different. I would never tell anyone that they must have their spouse back who has had one or more affairs, that is their choice and their decision. My brothers wife had 4 affairs and had no intention in going back to him, it isnt always possible.
He forgave the first 2 (he isnt a Christisn by the way) but there gets a point where there can be no trust or respect left.
Oh and what you said about helping members and the verses you quoted, I find that rather ironic as you and so many others here condemn and judge others all the time on this subject. What good is it if you give someone a bit of money them tell them that they are condemned for being divorced and they can never remarry, even though Jesus clearly said they could for certain reasons.
Jesus knows that unfaithfullness is so destructive that he allows divorce for it. if He thinks that then who are we to tell others that they must have their unfaithful spouse back at all costs.

remember only the man was allowed to divorce his wife for sexual immorality, to be able to marry another, according to the Law of Moses But it says the Lord "charges" men not to "leave" their wives or woman not to "separate" from their husbands 1 Cor 7:10-11. Paul says a woman is bound to the "law" of her husband "as long as he is living" but when he dies or sleeps she is free to marry another. Paul only said the man when "loosed" 1 Cor 7:27-28 from his wife is able to marry another, while she is still living. check out Rom 7:1-3. love from your brother. michael

I know several women who were clearly led by God to divorce their husbands after their serious sexual sins. Your opinion is that they cannot, you are entitled to that opinion, but it isnt what others have read in the Bible. Yes a wife is bound, until divorce means that she is no longer his wife.Where did Jesus say to the woman at the well that she was still married to the first husband? He didnt, He recognised all of her marriages as being marriages, and not just the first.

You are mistaken. Jesus pointed out the woman's sins at the well, that she has had 5 husbands and the man she has now is not her husband. It is not my opinion, God says a woman is bound to the law of her husband until he dies, but when he dies she is free to marry another. I love you but this is not my opinion. And those who were led to divorce their husbands were not led by God but by the devil and this fallen world. I am sorry.

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ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul

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ORIGINAL: mikesayen

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ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul

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ORIGINAL: mikesayen

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ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul

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ORIGINAL: northstar

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ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul

If they have broken the covenant then it is broken. If a vase is smashed, it is smashed. It cannot be smashed fpr one and whole for the other. There are things that one spouse does that smashes the marriage covenant and that is why Jesus allows divorce in these cases. Never does God hold one person accountable for what another does. if one spouse leaves or is sexually unfaithful, then the marriage is over and the other spouse is free, just as they would have been if their spouse had been stoned to death in the Old Testament.Why do we think that God thinks that something that is SOOO serious as to have resulted in death suddenly becomes so acceptable that the spouse cannnot even be released from it today?.
There is no point in us hanging on to a smashed marriage. The marriage is broken and our vows are now worthless. We are free to move on and allow our wonderful God to restore to us ALL that we have lost, and that may well be another marriage to a godly spouse.He is so good like that, and He loves to restore and heal.

Under the law we would all be worthy of death, so how is adultery any worse than anything we've done?

The Lord's prayer says 'forgive us as we forgive others'...and another verse says that if we don't forgive, God won't forgive us.

I know of an Iranian lady who left her husband and didn't want to even talk to him. The first thing she did after becoming a Christian was to phone him and tell him he was welcome to come back. She said that Jesus had forgiven her for everything she'd ever done, so how could she not forgive him.

Rather different from our western 'grace filled' kind of living, where we would say, oh well it happened before I was a Christian...or, well I do forgive him but I just can't let him come back. If a person says that then they haven't really forgiven.

Also, there is a least one marriage in my familly which has survived adultery, so I know it can be done. It's just a matter of whether we'll extend the same kind of forgiveness to them as we've been shown by God, or not.


Oh, and with regards to churches not supporting their struggling members...that's not God's fault now is it. And our unwillingness to help people doesn't change His standards either.

It says in the book of James
James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

James 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

So according to the Bible if we don't help our brothers and sisters then our faith is dead. I don't want to be accused by God of having a 'dead' faith when I stand before Him.

yes some marriages do survive adultery but that is totally up to the one who is cheated on. Some people would never be able to trust again if it happened to them and others could never bring themselves to ever have sex with their spouses again and I can understand that completely.We are all different and the circumstances are all different. I would never tell anyone that they must have their spouse back who has had one or more affairs, that is their choice and their decision. My brothers wife had 4 affairs and had no intention in going back to him, it isnt always possible.
He forgave the first 2 (he isnt a Christisn by the way) but there gets a point where there can be no trust or respect left.
Oh and what you said about helping members and the verses you quoted, I find that rather ironic as you and so many others here condemn and judge others all the time on this subject. What good is it if you give someone a bit of money them tell them that they are condemned for being divorced and they can never remarry, even though Jesus clearly said they could for certain reasons.
Jesus knows that unfaithfullness is so destructive that he allows divorce for it. if He thinks that then who are we to tell others that they must have their unfaithful spouse back at all costs.

remember only the man was allowed to divorce his wife for sexual immorality, to be able to marry another, according to the Law of Moses But it says the Lord "charges" men not to "leave" their wives or woman not to "separate" from their husbands 1 Cor 7:10-11. Paul says a woman is bound to the "law" of her husband "as long as he is living" but when he dies or sleeps she is free to marry another. Paul only said the man when "loosed" 1 Cor 7:27-28 from his wife is able to marry another, while she is still living. check out Rom 7:1-3. love from your brother. michael

I know several women who were clearly led by God to divorce their husbands after their serious sexual sins. Your opinion is that they cannot, you are entitled to that opinion, but it isnt what others have read in the Bible. Yes a wife is bound, until divorce means that she is no longer his wife.Where did Jesus say to the woman at the well that she was still married to the first husband? He didnt, He recognised all of her marriages as being marriages, and not just the first.

You are mistaken. Jesus pointed out the woman's sins at the well, that she has had 5 husbands and the man she has now is not her husband. It is not my opinion, God says a woman is bound to the law of her husband until he dies, but when he dies she is free to marry another. I love you but this is not my opinion. And those who were led to divorce their husbands were not led by God but by the devil and this fallen world. I am sorry.

Whatever Jesus thought of this woman, he DID recognise ALL of her five mariages and divorces.God recognises that divorce is the ending of a marriage, but some Christians dont and I cant understand that at all.Fortunately most do and that is telling. Also dont agree at all about forgiveness meaning that the spouse who was cheated on HAS to stay in the marriage. No where does the Bible teach that. Jesus says that if there has been unfaithfulness, divorce is allowed.
many cannot trust again after unfaithfullness, many know that their spouse will do it again and again.Many can not bring themselves to have sex again with the cheating spouse, and basically the marriage covenant has been broken by the cheating spouse anyway. The lagal divorce is only making legal what the cheating spouse has already done.

Just an example on forgiveness. My mother in law did something very serious and terrible to me and tried to destroy my marriage. She has never admitted to it or said sorry. I have forgiven her, but neither my husband nor I trust her an inch not to do it again.Therefore we will never see her again becuase she is very likely to do it again(she lives the other side of the world) She has been forgiven, (of course she hasnt accepted the forgiveness as she says she has done nothing worng)but God has told us to stay away and not give her the chance to cause such pain again. Forgiveness definately doesnt mean that we have to have that relationship restored. The spouse cheated on has the choice.