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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/30/2009 3:36:44 PM
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Isaiah331516
Posts: 248
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grannyofsix,
this is so interesting, a friend just brought that up!
remember, God sees you as married to your covenant husband...so you are not really divorced, cept to man and the world. of course, sin was involved as God does not intend divorce.
do you beleive that if one recognizes they sinned by divorcing they can ask forgiveness for their sin? i do.
can they make themselves remarried to their covenant spouse? well, see above, but also as paul writes in corinthians..."remain unmarried or be reconciled with her husband." that is what the divorced are to do...remain unmarried or be reconciled to their covenant spouse.
blessings
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/1/2009 8:42:30 AM
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GrannyofSix
Posts: 128
Joined: 6/17/2009
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quote:
God was married to Isreal and Judah (Jer 3:8-9) but because of Isreal's adutlery God divorced her Isaiah 50:1. So Israel was God's wife and He was her husband at the covenant of Moses in the wilderness.. but was divorced and Israel is no longer God's wife , nor is He her Husband Hos 2:2. 2 Kings 17:6-23 Israels divorce from the Land.
Okay, I understand. God was talking about when He divorced Israel. So what is "doing a divorce properly"?
Please answer my last question: If a Christian woman divorces her husband (since people here are saying that a woman is not allowed to divorce her husband) will she go to Hell? Yes or No. It has to be one way or the other - there is no in between.
If we are to go by the Scriptures above the law of the land (which I agree with), does God consider a marriage really a marriage if it were done, say in Las Vegas, or just by a Justice of the Peace, and not in Church and the couple wasn't joined by God? Because in much of those "marriage ceremonies", the Justice of the Peace does not say the words, "under God" or "who God joins together let no man put asunder". He says "as the powers vested in me by the Law of the Land, I now pronounce you husband and wife". So "who" is that man? He may be a Justice of the Peace, but he is just a man with absolutely no power from God to make a couple be a married couple in the eyes of God. (I hope that I am making my point clear).
I don't mean to get off topic of discussing what makes a marriage, but if we want to talk about the law of the land as far as divorce, then we need to look at the law of the land as far as making it be a marriage to begin with. At least a Holy marriage and recognized by God.
Personally, I would not feel comfortable, as a Christian woman, to be married unless it was performed by a minister who is anointed and sanctioned by God to join couples in Holy Matrimony. A man - a Justice of the Peace - is no different than a cop giving out a ticket. He can say it all day long that he marries people, but is he really? In the eyes of God, or just in the eyes of the public and the law?
Still....and above all else.....if a person is a born-again Christian, they will not go to Hell if they DO get a divorce (or if they remarried, which is in the other discussion). These are not the unforgivable sin.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/1/2009 10:13:24 AM
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Isaiah331516
Posts: 248
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i think mikesayen will do a good job of explaining what makes a marriage.
on another note, are we to coninue sinning or continue in a sin because we know it is not the unforgivable sin?
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/2/2009 1:22:09 AM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrannyofSix
quote:
God was married to Isreal and Judah (Jer 3:8-9) but because of Isreal's adutlery God divorced her Isaiah 50:1. So Israel was God's wife and He was her husband at the covenant of Moses in the wilderness.. but was divorced and Israel is no longer God's wife , nor is He her Husband Hos 2:2. 2 Kings 17:6-23 Israels divorce from the Land.
Okay, I understand. God was talking about when He divorced Israel. So what is "doing a divorce properly"?
Please answer my last question: If a Christian woman divorces her husband (since people here are saying that a woman is not allowed to divorce her husband) will she go to Hell? Yes or No. It has to be one way or the other - there is no in between.
If we are to go by the Scriptures above the law of the land (which I agree with), does God consider a marriage really a marriage if it were done, say in Las Vegas, or just by a Justice of the Peace, and not in Church and the couple wasn't joined by God? Because in much of those "marriage ceremonies", the Justice of the Peace does not say the words, "under God" or "who God joins together let no man put asunder". He says "as the powers vested in me by the Law of the Land, I now pronounce you husband and wife". So "who" is that man? He may be a Justice of the Peace, but he is just a man with absolutely no power from God to make a couple be a married couple in the eyes of God. (I hope that I am making my point clear).
I don't mean to get off topic of discussing what makes a marriage, but if we want to talk about the law of the land as far as divorce, then we need to look at the law of the land as far as making it be a marriage to begin with. At least a Holy marriage and recognized by God.
Personally, I would not feel comfortable, as a Christian woman, to be married unless it was performed by a minister who is anointed and sanctioned by God to join couples in Holy Matrimony. A man - a Justice of the Peace - is no different than a cop giving out a ticket. He can say it all day long that he marries people, but is he really? In the eyes of God, or just in the eyes of the public and the law?
Still....and above all else.....if a person is a born-again Christian, they will not go to Hell if they DO get a divorce (or if they remarried, which is in the other discussion). These are not the unforgivable sin.
thank you for the letter above. As far as heven or hell question, I believed I answered it in the remarriage forum (same question). As far as marriages.. according to Rom 13 and Old Testament examples of what marriage is (since it was established ..). First God the Father, brought Eve to Adam, she being out of Adams rib.... it is said a man shall leave his father and mother (he had not earthly father or mother) and cleave to his wife (they probably did not have relations till Gen 4:1 for it said Adam knew Eve) but still it says by Gen 2:18 and 1 Cor 11:3-9 that Adam was the head of Eve.. meaning husband, that was from the creation. Adam and Eve entered into a covenant with oneanother, an expected union for life, by the direction of God. Ok, number two.. it says for a marriage to take place it would probably require at least two or three witnesses, the father to give away the young gal (if under the father's roof Ex 22:16-17, Num 30:2-16). Or just an agreement between the man and the woman Ex 16:8 and Hos 3:1-3 showing they made a covenant with eachother. No priest was needed, it was usually not done at the Church or Temple (in biblical examples of Godly marriages in Gen). So by the example of Deut 24:1 only thing needed was a man to had a writ of paper of a divorce and send her out of his house (the paper was a statement from the husband that he is no longer her husband and she is no longer his wife Hos 2:2). The writ of divorce may needed two or three witnesses to make every word official.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/2/2009 8:35:55 AM
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GrannyofSix
Posts: 128
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I find it interesting when people use the Old Testament scriptures - especially those under the law - to prove a point or back up their beliefs. We do not live under the law. Or at least, I don't. I live according to the New Testament and the words of Jesus. If He refers to the Old Testament, then I listen. I also read what Paul and the others wrote, but also take into account what church he was writing his letters to and what their particular situation was at the time to need his letters.
However, I will say that I think that there are three components to marriage. It takes all three to make a marriage. If any of the three are missing, it isn't a marriage in the eyes of God. (these are my definitions after years of thought, study, prayer, observation and experience. No one has to agree with me at all.)
1. A couple must be married by the law of the land - by an official who has the legal authority to pronounce a man and woman as husband and wife. However, I believe that for Christians they should be married by a man of God so that they receive the blessings of God on their union. ONLY God can join two people together spiritually. And it takes that spiritual joining to become one flesh spiritually.
2. A couple must mean their vows from the heart. Many people, especially the young, do not have a clue what they are saying. They are all wrapped up in having the "party" of the wedding and no more mean the vows than a teenager girl would promise her mother that she is going to wash the dishes and then goes out and plays.
3. The couple must consummate their marriage. No sex - no marriage. Even if the first two steps are taken, without sex, they do not become One in the flesh. Afterall, adultery is sex, and that is the only action that is cause for divorce. No sex outside of marriage - no divorce - the breaking up of the marriage. Therefore, no sex inside of marriage - no real marriage.
So if any of the three steps above are not taken with all seriousness and commitment from the heart AND before God, I do not believe that the marriage was completed.
Just my opinion.....
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RE: controlling - 7/2/2009 9:04:17 PM
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Katie51
Posts: 227
Joined: 1/8/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Fritzpw_Admin
quote:
Divorce through a Child's Eyes: Between Two Worlds
Mark Earley
Prison Fellowship President
"Divorce is better for children than constant parental bickering. If parents do what makes them happy, their children will be happy too. In fact, divorce can actually benefit kids in the long run by introducing them to new people and new experiences."
So go the most popular myths today about divorce. But the reality doesn't line up with the myths, as Elizabeth Marquardt writes in her new book, Between Two Worlds: The Inner Lives of Children of Divorce.
Read the rest of the article...
I Thought this quote was interesting:
"...research indicates that even in the most civil of divorces, many burdens that rightly belong to the parents are shifted to their children."
Sadly true.
also sadly true are mothers (and fathers) who stuck it out for years with rebellious and angry spouses and they end up with damaged adult children who are on drugs, disrespectful to the parent who actually raised them and nurtured, in debt because the irresponsible parent enabled such behavior. Divorce is awful but it is better than an entire broken family. an abusive spouse who teaches his or her children that such is normal. You also have the shattered grandparents in the background, grieving over the errant spouses behavior. It happens in Christian homes. Sometimes you have to cut off the dead branch so the rest of the tree can live. It leaves a gaping wound but new growth and life are the result.
< Message edited by Katie51 -- 7/2/2009 9:14:23 PM >
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RE: controlling - 7/5/2009 1:38:54 AM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Katie51
quote:
ORIGINAL: Fritzpw_Admin
quote:
Divorce through a Child's Eyes: Between Two Worlds
Mark Earley
Prison Fellowship President
"Divorce is better for children than constant parental bickering. If parents do what makes them happy, their children will be happy too. In fact, divorce can actually benefit kids in the long run by introducing them to new people and new experiences."
So go the most popular myths today about divorce. But the reality doesn't line up with the myths, as Elizabeth Marquardt writes in her new book, Between Two Worlds: The Inner Lives of Children of Divorce.
Read the rest of the article...
I Thought this quote was interesting:
"...research indicates that even in the most civil of divorces, many burdens that rightly belong to the parents are shifted to their children."
Sadly true.
also sadly true are mothers (and fathers) who stuck it out for years with rebellious and angry spouses and they end up with damaged adult children who are on drugs, disrespectful to the parent who actually raised them and nurtured, in debt because the irresponsible parent enabled such behavior. Divorce is awful but it is better than an entire broken family. an abusive spouse who teaches his or her children that such is normal. You also have the shattered grandparents in the background, grieving over the errant spouses behavior. It happens in Christian homes. Sometimes you have to cut off the dead branch so the rest of the tree can live. It leaves a gaping wound but new growth and life are the result.
God hates divorce. God said let woman not separate from her husband, and man not to leave his wife. God gave the woman two choises.. don't separate but if you did separate "remain unmarried or recocile with your husband". If you are separated from your husband and he is not willing to have you return.. then stay unmarried an do not remarry another man till the first is no longer living 1 Cor 7:39. This will test your heart.
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RE: controlling - 7/5/2009 2:13:12 PM
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hnt
Posts: 660
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Katie51
quote:
ORIGINAL: Fritzpw_Admin
quote:
Divorce through a Child's Eyes: Between Two Worlds
Mark Earley
Prison Fellowship President
"Divorce is better for children than constant parental bickering. If parents do what makes them happy, their children will be happy too. In fact, divorce can actually benefit kids in the long run by introducing them to new people and new experiences."
So go the most popular myths today about divorce. But the reality doesn't line up with the myths, as Elizabeth Marquardt writes in her new book, Between Two Worlds: The Inner Lives of Children of Divorce.
Read the rest of the article...
I Thought this quote was interesting:
"...research indicates that even in the most civil of divorces, many burdens that rightly belong to the parents are shifted to their children."
Sadly true.
also sadly true are mothers (and fathers) who stuck it out for years with rebellious and angry spouses and they end up with damaged adult children who are on drugs, disrespectful to the parent who actually raised them and nurtured, in debt because the irresponsible parent enabled such behavior. Divorce is awful but it is better than an entire broken family. an abusive spouse who teaches his or her children that such is normal. You also have the shattered grandparents in the background, grieving over the errant spouses behavior. It happens in Christian homes. Sometimes you have to cut off the dead branch so the rest of the tree can live. It leaves a gaping wound but new growth and life are the result.
Just to be fair - the author did have one sentence that mentioned:
quote:
Some people have been upset by Marquardt's findings. But she isn't saying that divorce should never happen under any circumstances. Nor is she trying to make divorced parents feel bad, or portray children of divorce as damaged goods.
Providing Shelter: The Church and Domestic Abuse
was on Crosswalk as well.
quote:
Shocking as it may seem, domestic abuse is about as common in Christian homes as it is anywhere else. But too often, churches ignore the problem. Most pastors haven’t been trained to deal with it and have no idea how to help or protect abused women—especially when the husband appears outwardly charming, easy-going, and pious.
Authorities on domestic abuse define abuse as “a pattern of coercive control directed toward the victim.” It may involve anything from verbal abuse and threats, to hitting, kicking, and choking. It might involve cutting off access to food, stalking, and sexual coercion. Abused women live in constant fear, and they are often too ashamed to tell anyone about it.
Some churches are coming up for air finally, and I'm so Thankful for that! I've been praying for years over this issue. I'm not going to say we dont' have a long way to go, but at least some are willing to talk about it now.
My mother grew up in a southern Baptist home with her father in leadership, and her mother very involved as well. Church life was their life, and the whole time everyone knew he was beating the snot out of her and my mother. The 'I hate Divorce' was more important I guess than protecting the oppressed, broken and weary. My grandmother never in a million years would have divorced, but the saddest part was noone was brave enough to utter a word about what was happening in their home. The fear of divorce I think - or maybe the image of this family - was to important. The terror and fear of my mother's home took the back burner position.
My mother waited until I was in my forties to finally admit her childhood to me. She waited until they were dead, and she felt it was easier since she (her and dad) moved us 1,000 miles away to help keep the secret. It amazing how much shame, etc is involved in this. I remember numberous times my mother mentioning her parents would have been better off divorced, but being I didn't know them well couldn't put the connection as to why together.
I remember cleaning out their house, and finding all the 'hoover' notes from him in the attic. Ya know - I love you and I will never do that again hoovers? Just like a vacuum his attempts to suck her back into his world. I was mad at him for a while. The man that lovingly called me his favorite granddaugther (lol I was his only granddaugther). I got past that, and I realized the saddest part was no one ever dealt with his huge sense of brokeness. No one dealt with my grandmother's either. The sense of shame and fear carried on to my mother, and she was to afraid of dealing with it as well. The image of the "They were married for over 65 years, and NEVER DIVORCED" was more important. The relationship wasn't this beckon of 'this is what you are after', but they are still to this day being used as this marketing tool. 
quote:
God hates divorce. God said let woman not separate from her husband, and man not to leave his wife. God gave the woman two choises.. don't separate but if you did separate "remain unmarried or recocile with your husband". If you are separated from your husband and he is not willing to have you return.. then stay unmarried an do not remarry another man till the first is no longer living 1 Cor 7:39. This will test your heart.
This type of spiritual pixie dust statements show the next step hasn't begun yet. You know the dealing with brokeness?! Its easier to parrot scripture than to deal with it. Those that are brave enough to will have their hearts tested as well. To me its a test towards the heart of the church...do they take other parts of scripture and use those as well when it comes to very uncomfortable circumstances...or do they choose just parrot scripture. Human nature shows we take the path of less resistance. The bible asks us to go against human nature in alot of circumstances.
There are alot of circumstances in which divorce is a better option than living with unrepentant h#ll at home. Domestic violence isn't the only example. Goodness knows dealing with that is hard work, and it can really test a person. I remember a women's comment to me:
quote:
We actually had the pastor that counseled us, after hearing about the biting, hitting, tossing, shoving, mast**bation & p*rn addiction, and the pastor looked at me and tells me with a condescending tone, "you DO know how important respect is to a man, don't you (insert her name)"?
From the conversation he was leading towards how she must not have been as 'respectful' as possible, and that is why it was happening. She failed to make her husband feel significant enough thus he abused her. THAT is how she brought on the abuse herself. He wanted her to concentrate on her part, and at no point did they choose to deal with his brokeness with anything of subtance.
We complain about the divorce rates within the church, but at no time do we truly look at the counsel we give people. We are failing our test.
Once we move to to bring broken people to healing, and give firm discipline, support...and deal with oppression the way the bible instructs? We might be surprised what would happen.
To me a healed marriage is a beckon of hope, and shows how the church can pass the test of the heart with flying colors. Heck more so than my grandparents 65 years+. The image isn't what is important - its the substance. I pray one day we can see that.
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: controlling - 7/8/2009 11:44:13 PM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
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Paul said in 1 Cor 7:39, approximately one year before the book of Romans, when a woman marries a man she becomes “bound of law, as long as her husband lives; but if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.” Paul was not speaking about polygamy as in Rom 7:1-6 but still Paul said a woman was “bound to the law of the husband”. What does this mean? Paul is not saying we are still bound to the Law of Moses.
Paul says the reason the woman is bound to the “law of the husband” is because she being “under-man” (in Greek Rom 7:2) becomes bound to him for “life”.
Paul also states other non-specific “laws” that binds something to another i.e. “another law”, “law of the sin”, “law of the God”, “I find a law that is evil is present with me”, “law of the mind”, “law of the Spirit”, “law of the sin and of the death (as Rom 5:21)”. And so was used the “law of the husband”.
The “law” also seems to be shown in the statement by Paul earlier saying the Jews are not saved by the “Law” of works but through the “law (of) faith”. Also Paul said “Law of God” and “Law of Christ” in 1 Cor 9:21 even though he was not speaking about the “Law of Moses”. Paul used the word “law” was to symbolize, sometimes, something other than the Law of Moses. We might say the “law of Nature”, “law of Gravity”, “law of Physics” or some other “law” to be of a known truth or order. And Paul used it as a known fact according to God’s word.
The “law” of the husband, was a play-on-words, which Paul used to show when you are “under” a “law” (as of The Law of Moses) the law “lords-over” you, in which you “were held by”. The reason Paul says “living husband” in Rom 7:2 is to state this woman is currently married (thus “having been bound”).
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RE: controlling - 7/9/2009 1:31:20 AM
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hnt
Posts: 660
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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What does all you have written have to do with the question at hand?
Your answers makes no sense at all. The question was about an unrepentant spouse, and you speak of the 'law of the husband'.
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: controlling - 7/9/2009 2:11:18 PM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hnt
What does all you have written have to do with the question at hand?
Your answers makes no sense at all. The question was about an unrepentant spouse, and you speak of the 'law of the husband'.
sorry, I was just giving some information about divorce not trying to speak about a question. it was to the public at large.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/10/2009 1:54:51 PM
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Hazel2
Posts: 482
Status: offline
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Hi, I'm new to this thread so am not sure if this has already been addressed somewhere ... apologies if it has!
I have often wondered about abandonment as biblical justification for divorce. My mother has used this twice to divorce her husbands, saying they had "abandoned" their marriages by refusing counseling, etc. It seems to me that ANYONE could make a case for abandonment ... my own husband has been working a lot lately, for example. He is incredibly consumed with starting a new business and has been a little unavailable for me during my pregnancy. He is a wonderful man, devoted to me and our marriage but I think I could make this case for "abandonment".
Does anyone know the true meaning of the word as God intended it? I think it is a catch all for someone who just doesn't like their partner.
_____________________________
Will you please remember my husband, John, in prayer He is not saved. Thank you and God bless you!
"Be kind. Everyone you meet is in the midst of a great battle" Plato
I sometimes blog at defrazzled.blogspot.com
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/10/2009 3:11:13 PM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hazel2
Hi, I'm new to this thread so am not sure if this has already been addressed somewhere ... apologies if it has!
I have often wondered about abandonment as biblical justification for divorce. My mother has used this twice to divorce her husbands, saying they had "abandoned" their marriages by refusing counseling, etc. It seems to me that ANYONE could make a case for abandonment ... my own husband has been working a lot lately, for example. He is incredibly consumed with starting a new business and has been a little unavailable for me during my pregnancy. He is a wonderful man, devoted to me and our marriage but I think I could make this case for "abandonment".
Does anyone know the true meaning of the word as God intended it? I think it is a catch all for someone who just doesn't like their partner.
I do :) Unfortunately "abandonment" is not covered in the bible.. it says something close, it says in 1 Cor 7:15 if you are married to an unbeliever (an unbeliever only) and they want a divorce then allow them the divorce. In Jer 3:8-9 though "abandonment" is not the allowence of Moses for Divorce (Matt 19:9) it says God divorced Israel (as His wife) after she committed adultery (breaking the marriage covenant) then "abandoned" Him, thus He let her go because of her "adulteries" Isaiah 50:1.
Abandonment is not because one would not seek biblical councel, but has left the home to live with another sexual partner, and this only allowed for the man to divorce.
For the woman is under the "law of the husband" rom 7:2-3 and 1 Cor 7:39 thus she is not to "separate" from the man 1 Cor 7:10 or else remain "unmarried or reconcile" if she does 1 Cor 7:11a.
feel free to write me directly if you have any questions.. love to help. michael
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/10/2009 5:14:54 PM
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Hazel2
Posts: 482
Status: offline
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michael, thank you! ... my mom was so wrong! She has chosen some not so great men in her life. I think she couldn't stay with them but had to reconcile leaving with her strong Christian faith. Kind of sad ... I guess it happens all the time. I just expect(ed) more of her, you know?
_____________________________
Will you please remember my husband, John, in prayer He is not saved. Thank you and God bless you!
"Be kind. Everyone you meet is in the midst of a great battle" Plato
I sometimes blog at defrazzled.blogspot.com
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/10/2009 9:37:47 PM
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herestoresmysoul
Posts: 1460
Joined: 3/13/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hazel2
Hi, I'm new to this thread so am not sure if this has already been addressed somewhere ... apologies if it has!
I have often wondered about abandonment as biblical justification for divorce. My mother has used this twice to divorce her husbands, saying they had "abandoned" their marriages by refusing counseling, etc. It seems to me that ANYONE could make a case for abandonment ... my own husband has been working a lot lately, for example. He is incredibly consumed with starting a new business and has been a little unavailable for me during my pregnancy. He is a wonderful man, devoted to me and our marriage but I think I could make this case for "abandonment".
Does anyone know the true meaning of the word as God intended it? I think it is a catch all for someone who just doesn't like their partner.
My husbands ex wife abandoned my husband by starting a relationship with another man and divorcing her then husband. If you are being divorced then you are being abandoned. Or if somone leaves you they are abandoning you.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/10/2009 9:45:26 PM
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herestoresmysoul
Posts: 1460
Joined: 3/13/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lvgfth08
Ok, I am new to this site, but I do have a question. Tried to post it under relationships, and was re-directed to this thread.
I am a divorced 38yo female. I have found, scripturally and directly from the Lord, that it IS ok for me to re-marry.
You see, I had not been not born again when I was married. Was born again 2 years ago. 2 Corin 5:17 says that "...is a new creation; the old has gone and new has come."
There are more scriptures that state this, also.
As far as ministry goes, I believe that the same applies.
I believe from my reaidng and understanding of scripture that you are free to marry.You are a nEW creation. You are no longer married you are single.You dont say why you were divorced, as if your spouse committed sexual immorality God allows you to divorce and remarry anyway.Dont let these guys who spend all their time condeming those who are remarried get you down. God recognises divorce, the Bible makes that clear. It should be for certain reasons only, but if you arent saved, you dont know any better.
I pray that God will bring along a godly spouse for you as He so wonderfully and miraculously did for me.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/11/2009 12:43:43 AM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul
quote:
ORIGINAL: lvgfth08
Ok, I am new to this site, but I do have a question. Tried to post it under relationships, and was re-directed to this thread.
I am a divorced 38yo female. I have found, scripturally and directly from the Lord, that it IS ok for me to re-marry.
You see, I had not been not born again when I was married. Was born again 2 years ago. 2 Corin 5:17 says that "...is a new creation; the old has gone and new has come."
There are more scriptures that state this, also.
As far as ministry goes, I believe that the same applies.
I believe from my reaidng and understanding of scripture that you are free to marry.You are a nEW creation. You are no longer married you are single.You dont say why you were divorced, as if your spouse committed sexual immorality God allows you to divorce and remarry anyway.Dont let these guys who spend all their time condeming those who are remarried get you down. God recognises divorce, the Bible makes that clear. It should be for certain reasons only, but if you arent saved, you dont know any better.
I pray that God will bring along a godly spouse for you as He so wonderfully and miraculously did for me.
The bible does not say that if you were not saved during the divorce, then that doesn't count. It could only be a missinterpretation of scripture or thought. you made a covenant to oneanother in marriage, and even if you divorce you are still bound to your spouse matt 5:31-32.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/11/2009 5:31:18 AM
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herestoresmysoul
Posts: 1460
Joined: 3/13/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mikesayen
quote:
ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul
quote:
ORIGINAL: lvgfth08
Ok, I am new to this site, but I do have a question. Tried to post it under relationships, and was re-directed to this thread.
I am a divorced 38yo female. I have found, scripturally and directly from the Lord, that it IS ok for me to re-marry.
You see, I had not been not born again when I was married. Was born again 2 years ago. 2 Corin 5:17 says that "...is a new creation; the old has gone and new has come."
There are more scriptures that state this, also.
As far as ministry goes, I believe that the same applies.
I believe from my reaidng and understanding of scripture that you are free to marry.You are a nEW creation. You are no longer married you are single.You dont say why you were divorced, as if your spouse committed sexual immorality God allows you to divorce and remarry anyway.Dont let these guys who spend all their time condeming those who are remarried get you down. God recognises divorce, the Bible makes that clear. It should be for certain reasons only, but if you arent saved, you dont know any better.
I pray that God will bring along a godly spouse for you as He so wonderfully and miraculously did for me.
The bible does not say that if you were not saved during the divorce, then that doesn't count. It could only be a missinterpretation of scripture or thought. you made a covenant to oneanother in marriage, and even if you divorce you are still bound to your spouse matt 5:31-32.
Jesus recognised divorce as the ENDING of a marriage. The teaching of Paul etc is to believers. No where does the Bible say that if you marry as 2 unbelievers and then divorce and become believers you cannot remarry. The Bible tells us that if one of you becomes a believer, and your spouse leaves, then you are free.So therefore it follows that if neither of you are believers and one leaves.the same thing applies.
How sad to believe that you have to somehow be tied to another who may even be remarried.God is the God of new beginnings and fresh starts. I know, it has happened to me and it is GREAT. PRAISE GOD..
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/16/2009 12:42:35 AM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul
quote:
ORIGINAL: mikesayen
quote:
ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul
quote:
ORIGINAL: lvgfth08
Ok, I am new to this site, but I do have a question. Tried to post it under relationships, and was re-directed to this thread.
I am a divorced 38yo female. I have found, scripturally and directly from the Lord, that it IS ok for me to re-marry.
You see, I had not been not born again when I was married. Was born again 2 years ago. 2 Corin 5:17 says that "...is a new creation; the old has gone and new has come."
There are more scriptures that state this, also.
As far as ministry goes, I believe that the same applies.
I believe from my reaidng and understanding of scripture that you are free to marry.You are a nEW creation. You are no longer married you are single.You dont say why you were divorced, as if your spouse committed sexual immorality God allows you to divorce and remarry anyway.Dont let these guys who spend all their time condeming those who are remarried get you down. God recognises divorce, the Bible makes that clear. It should be for certain reasons only, but if you arent saved, you dont know any better.
I pray that God will bring along a godly spouse for you as He so wonderfully and miraculously did for me.
The bible does not say that if you were not saved during the divorce, then that doesn't count. It could only be a missinterpretation of scripture or thought. you made a covenant to oneanother in marriage, and even if you divorce you are still bound to your spouse matt 5:31-32.
Jesus recognised divorce as the ENDING of a marriage. The teaching of Paul etc is to believers. No where does the Bible say that if you marry as 2 unbelievers and then divorce and become believers you cannot remarry. The Bible tells us that if one of you becomes a believer, and your spouse leaves, then you are free.So therefore it follows that if neither of you are believers and one leaves.the same thing applies.
How sad to believe that you have to somehow be tied to another who may even be remarried.God is the God of new beginnings and fresh starts. I know, it has happened to me and it is GREAT. PRAISE GOD..
1 cor 7:15 does not say if one is an unbeliever and leaves you are free to remarry. What Paul says is if the unbeliever whish to leave then the believer is free to divorce them or free to let them go. Paul does not talk about remarriage in this passiage but he does in 1 cor 7:28 for the man only, and 1 'cor 7:39 for the woman only.
the "not in bondage" of 1 cor 7:15 is a continued state of bondage in the marriage.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/16/2009 12:23:43 PM
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herestoresmysoul
Posts: 1460
Joined: 3/13/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mikesayen
quote:
ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul
quote:
ORIGINAL: mikesayen
quote:
ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul
quote:
ORIGINAL: lvgfth08
Ok, I am new to this site, but I do have a question. Tried to post it under relationships, and was re-directed to this thread.
I am a divorced 38yo female. I have found, scripturally and directly from the Lord, that it IS ok for me to re-marry.
You see, I had not been not born again when I was married. Was born again 2 years ago. 2 Corin 5:17 says that "...is a new creation; the old has gone and new has come."
There are more scriptures that state this, also.
As far as ministry goes, I believe that the same applies.
I believe from my reaidng and understanding of scripture that you are free to marry.You are a nEW creation. You are no longer married you are single.You dont say why you were divorced, as if your spouse committed sexual immorality God allows you to divorce and remarry anyway.Dont let these guys who spend all their time condeming those who are remarried get you down. God recognises divorce, the Bible makes that clear. It should be for certain reasons only, but if you arent saved, you dont know any better.
I pray that God will bring along a godly spouse for you as He so wonderfully and miraculously did for me.
The bible does not say that if you were not saved during the divorce, then that doesn't count. It could only be a missinterpretation of scripture or thought. you made a covenant to oneanother in marriage, and even if you divorce you are still bound to your spouse matt 5:31-32.
Jesus recognised divorce as the ENDING of a marriage. The teaching of Paul etc is to believers. No where does the Bible say that if you marry as 2 unbelievers and then divorce and become believers you cannot remarry. The Bible tells us that if one of you becomes a believer, and your spouse leaves, then you are free.So therefore it follows that if neither of you are believers and one leaves.the same thing applies.
How sad to believe that you have to somehow be tied to another who may even be remarried.God is the God of new beginnings and fresh starts. I know, it has happened to me and it is GREAT. PRAISE GOD..
1 cor 7:15 does not say if one is an unbeliever and leaves you are free to remarry. What Paul says is if the unbeliever whish to leave then the believer is free to divorce them or free to let them go. Paul does not talk about remarriage in this passiage but he does in 1 cor 7:28 for the man only, and 1 'cor 7:39 for the woman only.
the "not in bondage" of 1 cor 7:15 is a continued state of bondage in the marriage.
if anyoine is Bibically free to divorce, they are then free to also remarry. jesus always recognised divorce as the cmplete ending of a marriage and of those two people being bound to the other.They are free, just as if they had never married.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/16/2009 1:37:29 PM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul
quote:
ORIGINAL: mikesayen
quote:
ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul
quote:
ORIGINAL: mikesayen
quote:
ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul
quote:
ORIGINAL: lvgfth08
Ok, I am new to this site, but I do have a question. Tried to post it under relationships, and was re-directed to this thread.
I am a divorced 38yo female. I have found, scripturally and directly from the Lord, that it IS ok for me to re-marry.
You see, I had not been not born again when I was married. Was born again 2 years ago. 2 Corin 5:17 says that "...is a new creation; the old has gone and new has come."
There are more scriptures that state this, also.
As far as ministry goes, I believe that the same applies.
I believe from my reaidng and understanding of scripture that you are free to marry.You are a nEW creation. You are no longer married you are single.You dont say why you were divorced, as if your spouse committed sexual immorality God allows you to divorce and remarry anyway.Dont let these guys who spend all their time condeming those who are remarried get you down. God recognises divorce, the Bible makes that clear. It should be for certain reasons only, but if you arent saved, you dont know any better.
I pray that God will bring along a godly spouse for you as He so wonderfully and miraculously did for me.
The bible does not say that if you were not saved during the divorce, then that doesn't count. It could only be a missinterpretation of scripture or thought. you made a covenant to oneanother in marriage, and even if you divorce you are still bound to your spouse matt 5:31-32.
Jesus recognised divorce as the ENDING of a marriage. The teaching of Paul etc is to believers. No where does the Bible say that if you marry as 2 unbelievers and then divorce and become believers you cannot remarry. The Bible tells us that if one of you becomes a believer, and your spouse leaves, then you are free.So therefore it follows that if neither of you are believers and one leaves.the same thing applies.
How sad to believe that you have to somehow be tied to another who may even be remarried.God is the God of new beginnings and fresh starts. I know, it has happened to me and it is GREAT. PRAISE GOD..
1 cor 7:15 does not say if one is an unbeliever and leaves you are free to remarry. What Paul says is if the unbeliever whish to leave then the believer is free to divorce them or free to let them go. Paul does not talk about remarriage in this passiage but he does in 1 cor 7:28 for the man only, and 1 'cor 7:39 for the woman only.
the "not in bondage" of 1 cor 7:15 is a continued state of bondage in the marriage.
if anyoine is Bibically free to divorce, they are then free to also remarry. jesus always recognised divorce as the cmplete ending of a marriage and of those two people being bound to the other.They are free, just as if they had never married.
Paul says latter in this same chapter that the woman becomes "bound to the law of the husband" thus she is bound to him as long as he is "living" but if he dies then and only then is she free to remarry. Even though the woman is bound to the law of the husband Paul gives the believer allowence to divorce thier unbelieving spouse if they are no longer willing to remain in the marriage 1 Cor 7:15.
When Paul says the believer is "not in bondage" any further, he is giving the believer permission to divorce their spouse and to allow them to leave and not to hold onto the marriage anymore by not letting them leave (for those who were unable to leave or divorce) such as Israel left the marriage in Jer 3:8-9 but God gave her the certificate of divorce, allowing the divorce though she made the covenant with Him.
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RE: controlling - 7/25/2009 3:47:36 PM
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Katie51
Posts: 227
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hnt
quote:
ORIGINAL: Katie51
quote:
ORIGINAL: Fritzpw_Admin
quote:
Divorce through a Child's Eyes: Between Two Worlds
Mark Earley
Prison Fellowship President
"Divorce is better for children than constant parental bickering. If parents do what makes them happy, their children will be happy too. In fact, divorce can actually benefit kids in the long run by introducing them to new people and new experiences."
So go the most popular myths today about divorce. But the reality doesn't line up with the myths, as Elizabeth Marquardt writes in her new book, Between Two Worlds: The Inner Lives of Children of Divorce.
Read the rest of the article...
I Thought this quote was interesting:
"...research indicates that even in the most civil of divorces, many burdens that rightly belong to the parents are shifted to their children."
Sadly true.
also sadly true are mothers (and fathers) who stuck it out for years with rebellious and angry spouses and they end up with damaged adult children who are on drugs, disrespectful to the parent who actually raised them and nurtured, in debt because the irresponsible parent enabled such behavior. Divorce is awful but it is better than an entire broken family. an abusive spouse who teaches his or her children that such is normal. You also have the shattered grandparents in the background, grieving over the errant spouses behavior. It happens in Christian homes. Sometimes you have to cut off the dead branch so the rest of the tree can live. It leaves a gaping wound but new growth and life are the result.
Just to be fair - the author did have one sentence that mentioned:
quote:
Some people have been upset by Marquardt's findings. But she isn't saying that divorce should never happen under any circumstances. Nor is she trying to make divorced parents feel bad, or portray children of divorce as damaged goods.
Providing Shelter: The Church and Domestic Abuse
was on Crosswalk as well.
quote:
Shocking as it may seem, domestic abuse is about as common in Christian homes as it is anywhere else. But too often, churches ignore the problem. Most pastors haven’t been trained to deal with it and have no idea how to help or protect abused women—especially when the husband appears outwardly charming, easy-going, and pious.
Authorities on domestic abuse define abuse as “a pattern of coercive control directed toward the victim.” It may involve anything from verbal abuse and threats, to hitting, kicking, and choking. It might involve cutting off access to food, stalking, and sexual coercion. Abused women live in constant fear, and they are often too ashamed to tell anyone about it.
Some churches are coming up for air finally, and I'm so Thankful for that! I've been praying for years over this issue. I'm not going to say we dont' have a long way to go, but at least some are willing to talk about it now.
My mother grew up in a southern Baptist home with her father in leadership, and her mother very involved as well. Church life was their life, and the whole time everyone knew he was beating the snot out of her and my mother. The 'I hate Divorce' was more important I guess than protecting the oppressed, broken and weary. My grandmother never in a million years would have divorced, but the saddest part was noone was brave enough to utter a word about what was happening in their home. The fear of divorce I think - or maybe the image of this family - was to important. The terror and fear of my mother's home took the back burner position.
My mother waited until I was in my forties to finally admit her childhood to me. She waited until they were dead, and she felt it was easier since she (her and dad) moved us 1,000 miles away to help keep the secret. It amazing how much shame, etc is involved in this. I remember numberous times my mother mentioning her parents would have been better off divorced, but being I didn't know them well couldn't put the connection as to why together.
I remember cleaning out their house, and finding all the 'hoover' notes from him in the attic. Ya know - I love you and I will never do that again hoovers? Just like a vacuum his attempts to suck her back into his world. I was mad at him for a while. The man that lovingly called me his favorite granddaugther (lol I was his only granddaugther). I got past that, and I realized the saddest part was no one ever dealt with his huge sense of brokeness. No one dealt with my grandmother's either. The sense of shame and fear carried on to my mother, and she was to afraid of dealing with it as well. The image of the "They were married for over 65 years, and NEVER DIVORCED" was more important. The relationship wasn't this beckon of 'this is what you are after', but they are still to this day being used as this marketing tool.
quote:
God hates divorce. God said let woman not separate from her husband, and man not to leave his wife. God gave the woman two choises.. don't separate but if you did separate "remain unmarried or recocile with your husband". If you are separated from your husband and he is not willing to have you return.. then stay unmarried an do not remarry another man till the first is no longer living 1 Cor 7:39. This will test your heart.
This type of spiritual pixie dust statements show the next step hasn't begun yet. You know the dealing with brokeness?! Its easier to parrot scripture than to deal with it. Those that are brave enough to will have their hearts tested as well. To me its a test towards the heart of the church...do they take other parts of scripture and use those as well when it comes to very uncomfortable circumstances...or do they choose just parrot scripture. Human nature shows we take the path of less resistance. The bible asks us to go against human nature in alot of circumstances.
There are alot of circumstances in which divorce is a better option than living with unrepentant h#ll at home. Domestic violence isn't the only example. Goodness knows dealing with that is hard work, and it can really test a person. I remember a women's comment to me:
quote:
We actually had the pastor that counseled us, after hearing about the biting, hitting, tossing, shoving, mast**bation & p*rn addiction, and the pastor looked at me and tells me with a condescending tone, "you DO know how important respect is to a man, don't you (insert her name)"?
From the conversation he was leading towards how she must not have been as 'respectful' as possible, and that is why it was happening. She failed to make her husband feel significant enough thus he abused her. THAT is how she brought on the abuse herself. He wanted her to concentrate on her part, and at no point did they choose to deal with his brokeness with anything of subtance.
We complain about the divorce rates within the church, but at no time do we truly look at the counsel we give people. We are failing our test.
Once we move to to bring broken people to healing, and give firm discipline, support...and deal with oppression the way the bible instructs? We might be surprised what would happen.
To me a healed marriage is a beckon of hope, and shows how the church can pass the test of the heart with flying colors. Heck more so than my grandparents 65 years+. The image isn't what is important - its the substance. I pray one day we can see that.
One of the best posts EVER on this subject. Thank you
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/25/2009 3:56:18 PM
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Katie51
Posts: 227
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hazel2
Hi, I'm new to this thread so am not sure if this has already been addressed somewhere ... apologies if it has!
I have often wondered about abandonment as biblical justification for divorce. My mother has used this twice to divorce her husbands, saying they had "abandoned" their marriages by refusing counseling, etc. It seems to me that ANYONE could make a case for abandonment ... my own husband has been working a lot lately, for example. He is incredibly consumed with starting a new business and has been a little unavailable for me during my pregnancy. He is a wonderful man, devoted to me and our marriage but I think I could make this case for "abandonment".
Does anyone know the true meaning of the word as God intended it? I think it is a catch all for someone who just doesn't like their partner.
I dont know but i can say i was abandoned and alone many years before i walked into that lawyers office with a broken heart. I would go for weeks without a word being spoken to me. Money was hidden from me. He was cold and rude to my mother on her last Mothers Day on this earth. Imagine how i felt as I apologized to my Mama on her deathbed. Later on to my Daddy only a few months before his sudden death. I allowed him to abuse my parents! I can only forgive myself for this by knowing they are with Jesus now. My children....broken, angry, dabbling in drugs and drinking...I could go on with horrible examples but you get the picture. I begged for counseling. I was laughed at and ridiculed. He never hit me, drank, smoked or even cussed. Yet i was totally alone in it all. I reached the point where something in my heart said enough. I believe it was God. Who does not like His daughters being abused by the ones who promised to love and cherish them.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/26/2009 2:52:22 AM
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mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Katie51
quote:
ORIGINAL: Hazel2
Hi, I'm new to this thread so am not sure if this has already been addressed somewhere ... apologies if it has!
I have often wondered about abandonment as biblical justification for divorce. My mother has used this twice to divorce her husbands, saying they had "abandoned" their marriages by refusing counseling, etc. It seems to me that ANYONE could make a case for abandonment ... my own husband has been working a lot lately, for example. He is incredibly consumed with starting a new business and has been a little unavailable for me during my pregnancy. He is a wonderful man, devoted to me and our marriage but I think I could make this case for "abandonment".
Does anyone know the true meaning of the word as God intended it? I think it is a catch all for someone who just doesn't like their partner.
I dont know but i can say i was abandoned and alone many years before i walked into that lawyers office with a broken heart. I would go for weeks without a word being spoken to me. Money was hidden from me. He was cold and rude to my mother on her last Mothers Day on this earth. Imagine how i felt as I apologized to my Mama on her deathbed. Later on to my Daddy only a few months before his sudden death. I allowed him to abuse my parents! I can only forgive myself for this by knowing they are with Jesus now. My children....broken, angry, dabbling in drugs and drinking...I could go on with horrible examples but you get the picture. I begged for counseling. I was laughed at and ridiculed. He never hit me, drank, smoked or even cussed. Yet i was totally alone in it all. I reached the point where something in my heart said enough. I believe it was God. Who does not like His daughters being abused by the ones who promised to love and cherish them.
you were under the law of your husband therefore you should not divorce your husband. There may be other means, or maybe not.. but stick in there. If you have not remarried you should either "reconcile" with your husband or remain unmarried. But since he did not cheat on you, it is best if you can seek reconcilliation. But do not marry another man for that would be adultery Matt 5:31-32. love you sister. Divorce is never the answer or never good.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/26/2009 8:55:14 AM
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Katie51
Posts: 227
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mikesayen
quote:
ORIGINAL: Katie51
quote:
ORIGINAL: Hazel2
Hi, I'm new to this thread so am not sure if this has already been addressed somewhere ... apologies if it has!
I have often wondered about abandonment as biblical justification for divorce. My mother has used this twice to divorce her husbands, saying they had "abandoned" their marriages by refusing counseling, etc. It seems to me that ANYONE could make a case for abandonment ... my own husband has been working a lot lately, for example. He is incredibly consumed with starting a new business and has been a little unavailable for me during my pregnancy. He is a wonderful man, devoted to me and our marriage but I think I could make this case for "abandonment".
Does anyone know the true meaning of the word as God intended it? I think it is a catch all for someone who just doesn't like their partner.
I dont know but i can say i was abandoned and alone many years before i walked into that lawyers office with a broken heart. I would go for weeks without a word being spoken to me. Money was hidden from me. He was cold and rude to my mother on her last Mothers Day on this earth. Imagine how i felt as I apologized to my Mama on her deathbed. Later on to my Daddy only a few months before his sudden death. I allowed him to abuse my parents! I can only forgive myself for this by knowing they are with Jesus now. My children....broken, angry, dabbling in drugs and drinking...I could go on with horrible examples but you get the picture. I begged for counseling. I was laughed at and ridiculed. He never hit me, drank, smoked or even cussed. Yet i was totally alone in it all. I reached the point where something in my heart said enough. I believe it was God. Who does not like His daughters being abused by the ones who promised to love and cherish them.
you were under the law of your husband therefore you should not divorce your husband. There may be other means, or maybe not.. but stick in there. If you have not remarried you should either "reconcile" with your husband or remain unmarried. But since he did not cheat on you, it is best if you can seek reconcilliation. But do not marry another man for that would be adultery Matt 5:31-32. love you sister. Divorce is never the answer or never good.
there may be other means? pray tell, what? nope. you are talking about something you have not lived through, which is judging, which God was clear on. No one agrees with you. you will just have to accept that. He was not a husband in any sense of the word with his behavior. So I wouldnt be under his "law" if anything existed in the sense you mean, which it doesnt.
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