|
|
|
|
|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/21/2009 2:44:51 PM
|
|
|
ItsGodInMe
Posts: 388
Joined: 8/27/2009
Status: offline
|
"Agreed. I am guilty of adultery. I have repented. However my wife has hardened her heart. I have tried everything to make restitution. No good. What is your advice. "
There is nothing you can do but pray and believe that God will give her a will to restore your marriage. That he will soften her stoned heart into flesh. Stand firm on God's will, which is marriage, and it shall be done. We don't know when or how, we only know it will happen. The word says anything that we ask in his Son Jesus name shall be given.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/21/2009 5:23:28 PM
|
|
|
Katie51
Posts: 227
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline
|
I caught the show today, the popular tv psychiatrist. He featured a family where the father had, for 30 years, beaten, raped and tortured his family. He fathered several children with his own daughters. The mother was horribly abused in many ways, as were the children. Finally the man set the house on fire, killing some of his grandchildren. So.....should this woman have stayed married to the man, now serving a life sentence in the pen? No. She finally filed for divorce after he was in the pen. Only a nut would suggest that the woman should remain married to this man who was an animal. This is an extreme example for sure. But to suggest that she or any other person stay married to an abuser is just plain crazy. You just have no idea, unless you lived it, how bad it can be.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/21/2009 5:57:58 PM
|
|
|
herestoresmysoul
Posts: 1460
Joined: 3/13/2009
Status: offline
|
Itsgodinme
Nowhere does the Bible say that if a spouse has committed sexual immorality that the one cheated on should try to stay or that they have to stay and try to work it out. That sin destroys the marriage covenant and I can quite understand why any person who is cheated on cannot stay in that marriage.I could never stay with a man who had done that and I could never trust him again.I could never have sex with him again either after he did that.I can fully understand how any husband or wife would want a divorce after that.It is the most appalling betrayal of the marriage vows and destroys imtimacy that they may have had.
I dont understand why a spouse gets upset that their cheated on spouse wont have them back. What do they expect? Serious sin has consequenses and one of them in this case is that the marriage is destroyed. Maybve those who cheat should have thought of that before they did such an appalling thing,
Also as katie said there are many other occasions that merit the ending of a marriage such as vey serious abuse abandonment etc.
Also many people are divorced by their spouse thus have no choice whatever they may or may not want to do.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/22/2009 11:28:27 PM
|
|
|
mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul
Itsgodinme
Nowhere does the Bible say that if a spouse has committed sexual immorality that the one cheated on should try to stay or that they have to stay and try to work it out. That sin destroys the marriage covenant and I can quite understand why any person who is cheated on cannot stay in that marriage.I could never stay with a man who had done that and I could never trust him again.I could never have sex with him again either after he did that.I can fully understand how any husband or wife would want a divorce after that.It is the most appalling betrayal of the marriage vows and destroys imtimacy that they may have had.
I dont understand why a spouse gets upset that their cheated on spouse wont have them back. What do they expect? Serious sin has consequenses and one of them in this case is that the marriage is destroyed. Maybve those who cheat should have thought of that before they did such an appalling thing,
Also as katie said there are many other occasions that merit the ending of a marriage such as vey serious abuse abandonment etc.
Also many people are divorced by their spouse thus have no choice whatever they may or may not want to do.
well, accually sin does not break the marriage. It is not a "contract" but a "covenant". Unless there are prerequisits you are not able to break a covenant. Moses only allowed the man to break the covenant with a certificate of divorce (if the wise had sexual immorality) but still God hates divorce and only wants the man to let go if the wife has already left him (1 Cor 7:27-28 don't "seek" a divoce) and the biblical story in Jer 3:1-10. God hates divorce. Let man not separate what God joined togeather,, even if it is in there power to do so,, as long as the other is willing to come back to the marriage.
love you guys, michael
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/22/2009 11:57:06 PM
|
|
|
herestoresmysoul
Posts: 1460
Joined: 3/13/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mikesayen
quote:
ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul
Itsgodinme
Nowhere does the Bible say that if a spouse has committed sexual immorality that the one cheated on should try to stay or that they have to stay and try to work it out. That sin destroys the marriage covenant and I can quite understand why any person who is cheated on cannot stay in that marriage.I could never stay with a man who had done that and I could never trust him again.I could never have sex with him again either after he did that.I can fully understand how any husband or wife would want a divorce after that.It is the most appalling betrayal of the marriage vows and destroys imtimacy that they may have had.
I dont understand why a spouse gets upset that their cheated on spouse wont have them back. What do they expect? Serious sin has consequenses and one of them in this case is that the marriage is destroyed. Maybve those who cheat should have thought of that before they did such an appalling thing,
Also as katie said there are many other occasions that merit the ending of a marriage such as vey serious abuse abandonment etc.
Also many people are divorced by their spouse thus have no choice whatever they may or may not want to do.
well, accually sin does not break the marriage. It is not a "contract" but a "covenant". Unless there are prerequisits you are not able to break a covenant. Moses only allowed the man to break the covenant with a certificate of divorce (if the wise had sexual immorality) but still God hates divorce and only wants the man to let go if the wife has already left him (1 Cor 7:27-28 don't "seek" a divoce) and the biblical story in Jer 3:1-10. God hates divorce. Let man not separate what God joined togeather,, even if it is in there power to do so,, as long as the other is willing to come back to the marriage.
love you guys, michael
covenants can be broken mike, and that is why God allows divorce for certain sins.Their promise to be faithful has been broken. It is up to the cheated on spouse whether they have the other back and not up to the one who sinned as to whether they want to come back. It is not their decision.They gave up any rights in that marriage when they chose to have sex relations with another person. Its easy to be remorseful when they have been discovered, but true repentance means more than that.NO WHERE deos God say that we have to have someone back who cheated, in fact deut implies that the other spouse has been defiled by having sex with another and therefore cannot come back.
The act of unfaithfullness has broken the covenant. Some spouses can have the sinful one back and some cant, I would never tell anyone that they have to have their spouse back, that is entirely their choice. They are not sinning if they cannot stay with a person who has done the most appalling act of betrayal to them.
God also hates deep betrayal, and abandonment, and serious sexual, physical and emotional abuse.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/23/2009 9:25:57 AM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 4566
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
|
quote:
Nowhere does the Bible say that if a spouse has committed sexual immorality that the one cheated on should try to stay or that they have to stay and try to work it out. That sin destroys the marriage covenant
Here is where I have to disagree. While the bible does say that this particular sin can destroy a marriage covenant, it does NOT say that this sin MUST destroy a marriage covenant. The book of Hosea is a good biblical example describing a marriage that was not destroyed because of adultery and the restoration of Hosea's marriage is an example God used to describe his relationship with us.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ItsGodInMe
"Agreed. I am guilty of adultery. I have repented. However my wife has hardened her heart. I have tried everything to make restitution. No good. What is your advice. "
There is nothing you can do but pray and believe that God will give her a will to restore your marriage. That he will soften her stoned heart into flesh. Stand firm on God's will, which is marriage, and it shall be done. We don't know when or how, we only know it will happen. The word says anything that we ask in his Son Jesus name shall be given.
Without knowing the circumstances, one cannot know if it is a "hardened heart" or a "wise heart" that prevents this man's wife from returning to the marriage. Nor do we understand even how much time has passed since this man "repented" i.e. has enough time even passed to demonstrate true repentance? Is this one of many times that he has "repented?" There are always two sides, and without hearing both sides, it is impossible to fairly assess this situation. What I can say is that neither the original post or this response recognizes the seriousness of adultery and the destruction that this sin creates; even when a marriage survives an affair, there is a huge amount of damage that must be dealt with in its wake. The consequences of adultery are not simply set aside because someone repents.
_____________________________
אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/23/2009 9:33:01 AM
|
|
|
herestoresmysoul
Posts: 1460
Joined: 3/13/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
Nowhere does the Bible say that if a spouse has committed sexual immorality that the one cheated on should try to stay or that they have to stay and try to work it out. That sin destroys the marriage covenant
Here is where I have to disagree. While the bible does say that this particular sin can destroy a marriage covenant, it does NOT say that this sin MUST destroy a marriage covenant. The book of Hosea is a good biblical example describing a marriage that was not destroyed because of adultery and the restoration of Hosea's marriage is an example God used to describe his relationship with us.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ItsGodInMe
"Agreed. I am guilty of adultery. I have repented. However my wife has hardened her heart. I have tried everything to make restitution. No good. What is your advice. "
There is nothing you can do but pray and believe that God will give her a will to restore your marriage. That he will soften her stoned heart into flesh. Stand firm on God's will, which is marriage, and it shall be done. We don't know when or how, we only know it will happen. The word says anything that we ask in his Son Jesus name shall be given.
Without knowing the circumstances, one cannot know if it is a "hardened heart" or a "wise heart" that prevents this man's wife from returning to the marriage. Nor do we understand even how much time has passed since this man "repented" i.e. has enough time even passed to demonstrate true repentance? Is this one of many times that he has "repented?" There are always two sides, and without hearing both sides, it is impossible to fairly assess this situation. What I can say is that neither the original post or this response recognizes the seriousness of adultery and the destruction that this sin creates; even when a marriage survives an affair, there is a huge amount of damage that must be dealt with in its wake. The consequences of adultery are not simply set aside because someone repents.
I would say that it is a wise heart. if a person has had one affair it can happen again.I am sure many of us know couples where one affair was forgiven only for another affair to happen later.
We will have to agree to disagree about the one who is cheated on.For me that would be a deal breaker, for others it isnt. We are all different. This is why God allows divorce for that sin, becuase He knows what a terrrible effect it has on the one cheated on.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/23/2009 9:45:08 AM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 4566
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
|
quote:
I would say that it is a wise heart. if a person has had one affair it can happen again.I am sure many of us know couples where one affair was forgiven only for another affair to happen later.
Yes, but there are also marriages in which one or more affairs happens and then there is genuine repentance and the marriage is changed into a marriage that truly reflects God's love and grace. The wise heart is the one that recognizes this potential when it truly exists.
_____________________________
אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/23/2009 11:37:48 AM
|
|
|
herestoresmysoul
Posts: 1460
Joined: 3/13/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
I would say that it is a wise heart. if a person has had one affair it can happen again.I am sure many of us know couples where one affair was forgiven only for another affair to happen later.
Yes, but there are also marriages in which one or more affairs happens and then there is genuine repentance and the marriage is changed into a marriage that truly reflects God's love and grace. The wise heart is the one that recognizes this potential when it truly exists.
Of course that isnt possible if the one having the affair divorces the other as happened to my husband. Also it cant happen in a case like mine where the sexual sin was so serious that people were harmed and at seriosus risk of further harm.
It is still up to the one cheated on whether to have that person back even if they are repentant. Some could never trust them again especially after more than one affair. Without trust there is no marriage.
We can forgive without having to recocile. Adultery breaks the marriage covenant.
< Message edited by herestoresmysoul -- 10/23/2009 11:47:16 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/23/2009 12:37:10 PM
|
|
|
northstar
Posts: 189
Status: offline
|
I personally think that the person with the wise heart would take the wayward spouse back, because it's the person with the wise heart that realises just how much God has forgiven them, maybe not for the same sin, but sin is sin and keeps us out of God's kingdom. We've been forgiven and God takes us back time after time, and doesn't give up on us. In the same way, the Bible commands us to forgive others.
It's the wise heart that sees how wretched it is, and will extend the same forgiveness to others that God extends to us. And God doesn't forgive without taking us back. He doesn't say, ok you're forgiven but you'll have to spend eternity without me. He takes us back!
_____________________________
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
Psalm 122:6
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/23/2009 1:09:57 PM
|
|
|
herestoresmysoul
Posts: 1460
Joined: 3/13/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: northstar
I personally think that the person with the wise heart would take the wayward spouse back, because it's the person with the wise heart that realises just how much God has forgiven them, maybe not for the same sin, but sin is sin and keeps us out of God's kingdom. We've been forgiven and God takes us back time after time, and doesn't give up on us. In the same way, the Bible commands us to forgive others.
It's the wise heart that sees how wretched it is, and will extend the same forgiveness to others that God extends to us. And God doesn't forgive without taking us back. He doesn't say, ok you're forgiven but you'll have to spend eternity without me. He takes us back!
Believe me it isnt always wise to take your spouse back. MY brother took his wife back after 2 affairs, She then went on to have 2 more, THEN he WAS wise and they got divorced, Best thing he ever did.
It is not up to us to tell anyone that they have to take their spouse back, God never said we have to, and it is 100% up to that person.Personally I wouldnt/couldnt, as that betrayal is so very deep.
< Message edited by herestoresmysoul -- 10/23/2009 1:58:05 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/23/2009 1:13:36 PM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 4566
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: northstar
I personally think that the person with the wise heart would take the wayward spouse back, because it's the person with the wise heart that realises just how much God has forgiven them, maybe not for the same sin, but sin is sin and keeps us out of God's kingdom. We've been forgiven and God takes us back time after time, and doesn't give up on us. In the same way, the Bible commands us to forgive others.
It's the wise heart that sees how wretched it is, and will extend the same forgiveness to others that God extends to us. And God doesn't forgive without taking us back. He doesn't say, ok you're forgiven but you'll have to spend eternity without me. He takes us back!
The wise heart looks at the whole situation and relies wholly on God's word as the standard on which to base these kinds of life decisions; however, the wise heart refuses to predetermine what choice should be made in a specific situation until confronted with that situation. In the case of taking back a "repentant" spouse who has committed adultery, there are many, many factors to consider before concluding exactly what the "wise" response is. Without looking hard at the specific individual circumstances, no answer is really wise.
_____________________________
אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 12:51:36 AM
|
|
|
Anon101
Posts: 181
Joined: 10/21/2009
Status: offline
|
I have a question that I've debated with my Christian family for a while.
My cousin got married at 20. After her husband started drinking and getting more and more violent (he threatened her but didn't beat her) she divorced him. She is now happily remarried and they have a daughter and another on the way.
My cousin is a Christian and so is her new husband. She was a Christian when she married. I don't think her ex was a Christian, though.
According to the bible, she is living in adultery now. Even though they attend church every Sunday and are happy, is God looking at her as an adulterer. Will she be an adulterer as long as she stays in her current marriage? If you ask forgiveness for the divorce is that covered or are you living an adulterous life every day of your life once you remarry? These are the questions I have. Reading the Word is sounds as though you are an adulterer every day of your life until you return to your former spouse or get unmarried. Then you are divorced again in accordance with the word and try to get back with your ex are you guilty of divorce #2? If you get divorced and remarried it seems like you are doomed. I can't find it anywhere in the word where God give you an o.k. to remarry unless your spouse cheated. How can we live under that yoke of bondage? There are things worse than cheating. I think getting beat everyday or being told you're worthless, drugs, etc. is worse, personally (I'm not living the above exactly per-se, I'm using it as an example).
That is why I am staying in an unhealthy, unloving, sometimes violent, horrible marriage. I don't want to divorce and then be doomed to hell if I find someone who loves me and wants to get married. I don't want to raise a child alone either. I want my son to have a father, but a Christian one but I can't because God doesn't allow for divorce unless my husband cheats on me. Not likely since he works third shift with a bunch of guys and never leaves the house.
The rules of marriage/remarriage are so rigid. No wonder Paul wished everyone would stay unmarried like him.
As you can see, this is an area of contention with me. But who am I to question God, although I do.
< Message edited by Lorilynn777 -- 10/24/2009 1:27:06 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 1:03:10 AM
|
|
|
Anon101
Posts: 181
Joined: 10/21/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Katie51
I caught the show today, the popular tv psychiatrist. He featured a family where the father had, for 30 years, beaten, raped and tortured his family. He fathered several children with his own daughters. The mother was horribly abused in many ways, as were the children. Finally the man set the house on fire, killing some of his grandchildren. So.....should this woman have stayed married to the man, now serving a life sentence in the pen? No. She finally filed for divorce after he was in the pen. Only a nut would suggest that the woman should remain married to this man who was an animal. This is an extreme example for sure. But to suggest that she or any other person stay married to an abuser is just plain crazy. You just have no idea, unless you lived it, how bad it can be.
I totally agree with you. I went to my pastor's wife for counsel and she said that "Christ endured suffering for us, why can't we endure suffering for a season (this life) out of love for Christ". I asked her directly, so are we supposed to be a rug to be walked all over. Her answer was a direct and quick "yes". This is what we are being taught in the church. No wonder the church is such a mess. Who would want to marry knowing this?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 10:13:37 AM
|
|
|
Katie51
Posts: 227
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lorilynn777
I have a question that I've debated with my Christian family for a while.
My cousin got married at 20. After her husband started drinking and getting more and more violent (he threatened her but didn't beat her) she divorced him. She is now happily remarried and they have a daughter and another on the way.
My cousin is a Christian and so is her new husband. She was a Christian when she married. I don't think her ex was a Christian, though.
According to the bible, she is living in adultery now. Even though they attend church every Sunday and are happy, is God looking at her as an adulterer. Will she be an adulterer as long as she stays in her current marriage? If you ask forgiveness for the divorce is that covered or are you living an adulterous life every day of your life once you remarry? These are the questions I have. Reading the Word is sounds as though you are an adulterer every day of your life until you return to your former spouse or get unmarried. Then you are divorced again in accordance with the word and try to get back with your ex are you guilty of divorce #2? If you get divorced and remarried it seems like you are doomed. I can't find it anywhere in the word where God give you an o.k. to remarry unless your spouse cheated. How can we live under that yoke of bondage? There are things worse than cheating. I think getting beat everyday or being told you're worthless, drugs, etc. is worse, personally (I'm not living the above exactly per-se, I'm using it as an example).
That is why I am staying in an unhealthy, unloving, sometimes violent, horrible marriage. I don't want to divorce and then be doomed to hell if I find someone who loves me and wants to get married. I don't want to raise a child alone either. I want my son to have a father, but a Christian one but I can't because God doesn't allow for divorce unless my husband cheats on me. Not likely since he works third shift with a bunch of guys and never leaves the house.
The rules of marriage/remarriage are so rigid. No wonder Paul wished everyone would stay unmarried like him.
As you can see, this is an area of contention with me. But who am I to question God, although I do.
I dont believe God intended for any man or woman to remain in an abusive marriage like that. That is some peoples opinion, not Scripture. Do you really think the God shown to us in Jesus Christ wants a woman beaten to a pulp, degraded, her child ruined....I dont. and divorce doesnt doom anyone to hell.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 10:15:54 AM
|
|
|
Katie51
Posts: 227
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
Nowhere does the Bible say that if a spouse has committed sexual immorality that the one cheated on should try to stay or that they have to stay and try to work it out. That sin destroys the marriage covenant
Here is where I have to disagree. While the bible does say that this particular sin can destroy a marriage covenant, it does NOT say that this sin MUST destroy a marriage covenant. The book of Hosea is a good biblical example describing a marriage that was not destroyed because of adultery and the restoration of Hosea's marriage is an example God used to describe his relationship with us.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ItsGodInMe
"Agreed. I am guilty of adultery. I have repented. However my wife has hardened her heart. I have tried everything to make restitution. No good. What is your advice. "
There is nothing you can do but pray and believe that God will give her a will to restore your marriage. That he will soften her stoned heart into flesh. Stand firm on God's will, which is marriage, and it shall be done. We don't know when or how, we only know it will happen. The word says anything that we ask in his Son Jesus name shall be given.
Without knowing the circumstances, one cannot know if it is a "hardened heart" or a "wise heart" that prevents this man's wife from returning to the marriage. Nor do we understand even how much time has passed since this man "repented" i.e. has enough time even passed to demonstrate true repentance? Is this one of many times that he has "repented?" There are always two sides, and without hearing both sides, it is impossible to fairly assess this situation. What I can say is that neither the original post or this response recognizes the seriousness of adultery and the destruction that this sin creates; even when a marriage survives an affair, there is a huge amount of damage that must be dealt with in its wake. The consequences of adultery are not simply set aside because someone repents.
Something seldom mentioned on this forum..the risk of sexually transmitted disease when someone has cheated. Part of a marriage that survived an affair would include the cheater being tested for disease. and showing proof from a doc that he is disease free.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 10:17:06 AM
|
|
|
Katie51
Posts: 227
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mikesayen
quote:
ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul
Itsgodinme
Nowhere does the Bible say that if a spouse has committed sexual immorality that the one cheated on should try to stay or that they have to stay and try to work it out. That sin destroys the marriage covenant and I can quite understand why any person who is cheated on cannot stay in that marriage.I could never stay with a man who had done that and I could never trust him again.I could never have sex with him again either after he did that.I can fully understand how any husband or wife would want a divorce after that.It is the most appalling betrayal of the marriage vows and destroys imtimacy that they may have had.
I dont understand why a spouse gets upset that their cheated on spouse wont have them back. What do they expect? Serious sin has consequenses and one of them in this case is that the marriage is destroyed. Maybve those who cheat should have thought of that before they did such an appalling thing,
Also as katie said there are many other occasions that merit the ending of a marriage such as vey serious abuse abandonment etc.
Also many people are divorced by their spouse thus have no choice whatever they may or may not want to do.
well, accually sin does not break the marriage. It is not a "contract" but a "covenant". Unless there are prerequisits you are not able to break a covenant. Moses only allowed the man to break the covenant with a certificate of divorce (if the wise had sexual immorality) but still God hates divorce and only wants the man to let go if the wife has already left him (1 Cor 7:27-28 don't "seek" a divoce) and the biblical story in Jer 3:1-10. God hates divorce. Let man not separate what God joined togeather,, even if it is in there power to do so,, as long as the other is willing to come back to the marriage.
love you guys, michael
so you are saying that the woman whos husband raped their daughters and then burned down the house with his children/grandbabies in it must remain married to him? sick
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 10:53:37 AM
|
|
|
Anon101
Posts: 181
Joined: 10/21/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Katie51
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lorilynn777
I have a question that I've debated with my Christian family for a while.
My cousin got married at 20. After her husband started drinking and getting more and more violent (he threatened her but didn't beat her) she divorced him. She is now happily remarried and they have a daughter and another on the way.
My cousin is a Christian and so is her new husband. She was a Christian when she married. I don't think her ex was a Christian, though.
According to the bible, she is living in adultery now. Even though they attend church every Sunday and are happy, is God looking at her as an adulterer. Will she be an adulterer as long as she stays in her current marriage? If you ask forgiveness for the divorce is that covered or are you living an adulterous life every day of your life once you remarry? These are the questions I have. Reading the Word is sounds as though you are an adulterer every day of your life until you return to your former spouse or get unmarried. Then you are divorced again in accordance with the word and try to get back with your ex are you guilty of divorce #2? If you get divorced and remarried it seems like you are doomed. I can't find it anywhere in the word where God give you an o.k. to remarry unless your spouse cheated. How can we live under that yoke of bondage? There are things worse than cheating. I think getting beat everyday or being told you're worthless, drugs, etc. is worse, personally (I'm not living the above exactly per-se, I'm using it as an example).
That is why I am staying in an unhealthy, unloving, sometimes violent, horrible marriage. I don't want to divorce and then be doomed to hell if I find someone who loves me and wants to get married. I don't want to raise a child alone either. I want my son to have a father, but a Christian one but I can't because God doesn't allow for divorce unless my husband cheats on me. Not likely since he works third shift with a bunch of guys and never leaves the house.
The rules of marriage/remarriage are so rigid. No wonder Paul wished everyone would stay unmarried like him.
As you can see, this is an area of contention with me. But who am I to question God, although I do.
I dont believe God intended for any man or woman to remain in an abusive marriage like that. That is some peoples opinion, not Scripture. Do you really think the God shown to us in Jesus Christ wants a woman beaten to a pulp, degraded, her child ruined....I dont. and divorce doesnt doom anyone to hell.
No not at all. I'm just saying that I can't find scripture to back up leaving in a situation where there is verbal/mental abuse. I'm sure abuse existed back in Jesus' time, I've just wondered why Christ only mentioned adultery as a reason for divorce.
Nobody should put up with physical abuse or let their kids see that. I just have been going through a questioning time because when you've been whomped on the head by scripture as much as I have by well intentioned Christians, you make sure you can back everything up by scripture. This is just a very debated topic among Christians because Jesus didn't address the verbal/mental abuse issue directly. In my mind it is obvious that a woman should leave if she is getting her butt kicked by her husband.
When I refer to violence in my own marriage it is mostly verbal abuse and sometimes he will throw things against the wall or hit things and break them. Since going on the meds he has gotten better with the violent outbursts. There are degrees of violence, though. I consider screaming, cursing, throwing things violence. I know many others would not call that violence. I should have made myself more clear. My husband is not beating me. If that were the case I would have been gone in a flash.
< Message edited by Lorilynn777 -- 10/24/2009 11:00:01 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 11:03:54 AM
|
|
|
manda59
Posts: 8197
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lorilynn777
I've just wondered why Christ only mentioned adultery as a reason for divorce.
My understanding is that at the time, culturally, it was the men who did the divorcing, and too many at that time were just divorcing their wives for no reason other than they fancied taking up with someone new. Hence him saying that they needed to have a reason to divorce, and that reason had to be that the marital covenant had been broken, not just a whim.
_____________________________
"Manda.....you said what I tried to say, just much better"
sharonjef, October 2009
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 11:26:42 AM
|
|
|
Anon101
Posts: 181
Joined: 10/21/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lorilynn777
I've just wondered why Christ only mentioned adultery as a reason for divorce.
My understanding is that at the time, culturally, it was the men who did the divorcing, and too many at that time were just divorcing their wives for no reason other than they fancied taking up with someone new. Hence him saying that they needed to have a reason to divorce, and that reason had to be that the marital covenant had been broken, not just a whim.
and every divorce scripture is aimed at women.
To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord):the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife.
—1 Corinthians 7:10
“Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.
—Luke 16:18
“It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
—Matthew 5:31-32
For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.
—Romans 7:2-3
I think this is why women seem to be more plagued with guilt and condemnation over divorce and remarriage. I'm not saying that there are not men plagued with guilt, but there are less of them that are living under the feeling of condemnation.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 12:11:24 PM
|
|
|
Katie51
Posts: 227
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lorilynn777
quote:
ORIGINAL: Katie51
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lorilynn777
I have a question that I've debated with my Christian family for a while.
My cousin got married at 20. After her husband started drinking and getting more and more violent (he threatened her but didn't beat her) she divorced him. She is now happily remarried and they have a daughter and another on the way.
My cousin is a Christian and so is her new husband. She was a Christian when she married. I don't think her ex was a Christian, though.
According to the bible, she is living in adultery now. Even though they attend church every Sunday and are happy, is God looking at her as an adulterer. Will she be an adulterer as long as she stays in her current marriage? If you ask forgiveness for the divorce is that covered or are you living an adulterous life every day of your life once you remarry? These are the questions I have. Reading the Word is sounds as though you are an adulterer every day of your life until you return to your former spouse or get unmarried. Then you are divorced again in accordance with the word and try to get back with your ex are you guilty of divorce #2? If you get divorced and remarried it seems like you are doomed. I can't find it anywhere in the word where God give you an o.k. to remarry unless your spouse cheated. How can we live under that yoke of bondage? There are things worse than cheating. I think getting beat everyday or being told you're worthless, drugs, etc. is worse, personally (I'm not living the above exactly per-se, I'm using it as an example).
That is why I am staying in an unhealthy, unloving, sometimes violent, horrible marriage. I don't want to divorce and then be doomed to hell if I find someone who loves me and wants to get married. I don't want to raise a child alone either. I want my son to have a father, but a Christian one but I can't because God doesn't allow for divorce unless my husband cheats on me. Not likely since he works third shift with a bunch of guys and never leaves the house.
The rules of marriage/remarriage are so rigid. No wonder Paul wished everyone would stay unmarried like him.
As you can see, this is an area of contention with me. But who am I to question God, although I do.
I dont believe God intended for any man or woman to remain in an abusive marriage like that. That is some peoples opinion, not Scripture. Do you really think the God shown to us in Jesus Christ wants a woman beaten to a pulp, degraded, her child ruined....I dont. and divorce doesnt doom anyone to hell.
No not at all. I'm just saying that I can't find scripture to back up leaving in a situation where there is verbal/mental abuse. I'm sure abuse existed back in Jesus' time, I've just wondered why Christ only mentioned adultery as a reason for divorce.
Nobody should put up with physical abuse or let their kids see that. I just have been going through a questioning time because when you've been whomped on the head by scripture as much as I have by well intentioned Christians, you make sure you can back everything up by scripture. This is just a very debated topic among Christians because Jesus didn't address the verbal/mental abuse issue directly. In my mind it is obvious that a woman should leave if she is getting her butt kicked by her husband.
When I refer to violence in my own marriage it is mostly verbal abuse and sometimes he will throw things against the wall or hit things and break them. Since going on the meds he has gotten better with the violent outbursts. There are degrees of violence, though. I consider screaming, cursing, throwing things violence. I know many others would not call that violence. I should have made myself more clear. My husband is not beating me. If that were the case I would have been gone in a flash.
Lori..anyone losing control like that, throwing things, cursing etc..has the potential to be dangerous. Please protect yourself. God did NOT intend for you to have to put up with that. A lot of the Scripture on divorce has been twisted by well meaning but ill informed people. I cant tell you what to do, I can tell you that my opinion is that Jesus would never want a woman abused, verbally or physically. You are precious to Him.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 12:16:11 PM
|
|
|
manda59
Posts: 8197
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lorilynn777
I consider screaming, cursing, throwing things violence. I know many others would not call that violence. I should have made myself more clear. My husband is not beating me. If that were the case I would have been gone in a flash.
Screaming, cursing, throwing things IS violence, and it means you (and your child) are in danger.
You need to get yourself and your child to a place of safety. That's not divorce btw, it's taking care of yourself in the face of his broken marriage vows, and protecting your child, who cannot protect himself. Leaving him is not the same as divorcing him. You'd need to decide about that separately once you had left him.
_____________________________
"Manda.....you said what I tried to say, just much better"
sharonjef, October 2009
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 7:09:39 PM
|
|
|
Isaiah331516
Posts: 248
Joined: 1/5/2009
Status: offline
|
i think it interesting how we insert our feelings into God's word. Jesus said divorce was not of God, that a man and woman are one flesh after marriage and that man cannot break this.
(the only note here is that if in an adulterous remarriage, well, God says adultery is a sin, so get out of that fake marriage cuz it ain't real)
if in a one flesh marriage where neither spouse has been married before, God's word says you are married and man cannot break this. until the death of one, the two are one.
seperating for safety is not divorce and the Bible does not say seperating is sin. during seperation prayer and fasting can occur which is what God wants. if you don't think someone else's sin is forgivable, look in the mirror. if we don't forgive others for any and all, we won't be forgiven by God. we are called to forgive; we are called to be obedient to God's word.
the world and even the church is a-okay with divorce and (re-m) but God's word makes it clear. if you divorce...what does paul say to the woman who is divorced? he says to remain unmarried or be reconciled. if you really want a divorce, the afterward options are that - remain unmarried or be reconciled. consider what God says about the world's options (even the church's) - remarriage is adultery and marrying a divorced person is adultery. the only reason i bring this up is because i think this would help us decide if we want to stick out covenant marriages with prayer and fasting even in seperation.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 6:27:47 PM
|
|
|
mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline
|
Why is the woman “bound” of Law?
In Rom 7:1 it says the reason something or someone is bound of “law” if one “lords over” the other. Paul says upon marriage a woman becomes “bound of law” to her husband 1 Cor 7:39.
Paul uses both, the design of woman and the punishment on all woman-kind to explain the rule of man…
In 1 Cor 14:34 it states ALL women are to be “silent” in the church (shameful for any woman to speak in church) due to the rule of husband over the woman in Gen 3:16 due to “submission” of the wife. But Paul latter says in 1 Tim 2:11-13 that ALL women are to be “silent” in the church and to be “submissive” to ALL men due to the Design of order of the women “Adam was formed first then Eve”. We know 1 Tim 2:13 is referring to ALL women by Paul saying in 1 Cor 11:3 that man in general is the “head” of “every” women (married or unmarried, fathered or single) by design for she was made in the “glory” of man vs. 7. Paul also stated latter repeating the idea of 1 Tim 11:13 of Adam and Eve by saying the man was not made “for” the woman but woman was made “for the man” 1 Cor 11:9.
So why is she bound to him for his life? Because she is bound to a “law” to him that was set up by God from the beginning that a divorce was never intended to release her from that principle. But the Law of divorce Deut 24:1 was only designed to allow the man to marry another in her place.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 6:31:32 PM
|
|
|
mikesayen
Posts: 477
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah331516
i think it interesting how we insert our feelings into God's word. Jesus said divorce was not of God, that a man and woman are one flesh after marriage and that man cannot break this.
(the only note here is that if in an adulterous remarriage, well, God says adultery is a sin, so get out of that fake marriage cuz it ain't real)
if in a one flesh marriage where neither spouse has been married before, God's word says you are married and man cannot break this. until the death of one, the two are one.
seperating for safety is not divorce and the Bible does not say seperating is sin. during seperation prayer and fasting can occur which is what God wants. if you don't think someone else's sin is forgivable, look in the mirror. if we don't forgive others for any and all, we won't be forgiven by God. we are called to forgive; we are called to be obedient to God's word.
the world and even the church is a-okay with divorce and (re-m) but God's word makes it clear. if you divorce...what does paul say to the woman who is divorced? he says to remain unmarried or be reconciled. if you really want a divorce, the afterward options are that - remain unmarried or be reconciled. consider what God says about the world's options (even the church's) - remarriage is adultery and marrying a divorced person is adultery. the only reason i bring this up is because i think this would help us decide if we want to stick out covenant marriages with prayer and fasting even in seperation.
Even though the second marriage may be adultery God says the second covenant does not nullify the first (and visa versa)... Its a covenant none the less...
Gal 3:15 it says, “Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: thought it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it” as to say, “and this I say, that the law (Covenant of Moses) which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God (Covenant with Abraham and his “seed”), in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.” What Paul is saying is although another covenant is made, it does not nullify the first covenant; nor can it be changed or altered (if there were no prerequisites written/said at the giving of the covenant).
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
