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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/28/2009 9:57:59 AM
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Katie51
Posts: 227
Joined: 1/8/2009
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some people are from countries or cultures where women are second class citizens. trying to convince them that a woman doesnt have to abused it a waste of time. the just endlessly repeat a few verses to "prove" their point.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/28/2009 3:30:07 PM
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hnt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lorilynn777
quote:
ORIGINAL: Katie51
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lorilynn777
I have a question that I've debated with my Christian family for a while.
My cousin got married at 20. After her husband started drinking and getting more and more violent (he threatened her but didn't beat her) she divorced him. She is now happily remarried and they have a daughter and another on the way.
My cousin is a Christian and so is her new husband. She was a Christian when she married. I don't think her ex was a Christian, though.
According to the bible, she is living in adultery now. Even though they attend church every Sunday and are happy, is God looking at her as an adulterer. Will she be an adulterer as long as she stays in her current marriage? If you ask forgiveness for the divorce is that covered or are you living an adulterous life every day of your life once you remarry? These are the questions I have. Reading the Word is sounds as though you are an adulterer every day of your life until you return to your former spouse or get unmarried. Then you are divorced again in accordance with the word and try to get back with your ex are you guilty of divorce #2? If you get divorced and remarried it seems like you are doomed. I can't find it anywhere in the word where God give you an o.k. to remarry unless your spouse cheated. How can we live under that yoke of bondage? There are things worse than cheating. I think getting beat everyday or being told you're worthless, drugs, etc. is worse, personally (I'm not living the above exactly per-se, I'm using it as an example).
That is why I am staying in an unhealthy, unloving, sometimes violent, horrible marriage. I don't want to divorce and then be doomed to hell if I find someone who loves me and wants to get married. I don't want to raise a child alone either. I want my son to have a father, but a Christian one but I can't because God doesn't allow for divorce unless my husband cheats on me. Not likely since he works third shift with a bunch of guys and never leaves the house.
The rules of marriage/remarriage are so rigid. No wonder Paul wished everyone would stay unmarried like him.
As you can see, this is an area of contention with me. But who am I to question God, although I do.
I dont believe God intended for any man or woman to remain in an abusive marriage like that. That is some peoples opinion, not Scripture. Do you really think the God shown to us in Jesus Christ wants a woman beaten to a pulp, degraded, her child ruined....I dont. and divorce doesnt doom anyone to hell.
No not at all. I'm just saying that I can't find scripture to back up leaving in a situation where there is verbal/mental abuse. I'm sure abuse existed back in Jesus' time, I've just wondered why Christ only mentioned adultery as a reason for divorce.
Nobody should put up with physical abuse or let their kids see that. I just have been going through a questioning time because when you've been whomped on the head by scripture as much as I have by well intentioned Christians, you make sure you can back everything up by scripture. This is just a very debated topic among Christians because Jesus didn't address the verbal/mental abuse issue directly. In my mind it is obvious that a woman should leave if she is getting her butt kicked by her husband.
When I refer to violence in my own marriage it is mostly verbal abuse and sometimes he will throw things against the wall or hit things and break them. Since going on the meds he has gotten better with the violent outbursts. There are degrees of violence, though. I consider screaming, cursing, throwing things violence. I know many others would not call that violence. I should have made myself more clear. My husband is not beating me. If that were the case I would have been gone in a flash.
Lorilynn:
Have you read James 3? It speaks to the power and danger of the tongue. You are correct that some feel that screaming, cursing and throwing things, etc is not a enough 'violence' to be all that concerned with. Jesus is concerned, and the bible speaks out about alot of things that othesr claim it doesn't. The bible speaks of the dangers of these things, because of the damage...besides the fact its sin.
I found in alot of cases - not all - that churches don't know how to deal with such things, and then they make comments such as your pastor's wife. The clear avenue is to address the sin, and protect the oppressed per scripture. A marriage doesn't change those facts. They are to confront your husband, and protect you and your child. I don't have a reason as to why they don't, except maybe fear and ignorance. It certainly isn't scriptural to allow abuse of any kind to go on without addressing it. The pastor's wife comment wasn't addressing. She was making excuses.
Read your bible again, and try to feel the spirit of the words written. We have to ask ourselves questions like would Jesus allow a man to curse and be violent towards his wife in his presence? I think we all know the answer to that. Why wouldn't he? If people can answer those questions they do realize they need to do something. It seems people tend to make excuses like what did you do beforehand, or can you be nicer, etc. I can't see Jesus doing that either, and why they feel that would be acceptable is beyond me.
People that refuse to deal with the oppressed and the oppressor? They have alot of hot air to share, but no meat to bite into. You don't need to wait for their approval to separate for both of your sakes. You both need help, and NO that isn't marriage counseling. You can do that when the fear and the intimidation of the violence has been removed. You can't speak freely and be totally honest when you have fear of repercussions. Telling you that you need to stay, suffer and endure? That is just spiritual pixie dust that people love to sprinkle. We are to right wrongs the best we can, and not just sit back and watch them happen.
The people of the church can speak alot about how people just throw marriages away with no remorse and hardly any thought. In fact that is one of their favorite speeches! When people get responses like you did? They don't seem to realize what an awesome opportunity they had, and basically threw it away with no thought. You see Christ also stands for mercy, grace and justice. When people worry to much about divorce stats than they do helping a family in trouble? Sit back and wonder what would be said on judgment day. Do you feel God would be in agreement with that decision? They had the power to bring something to you, and all they handed you was burdens.
If that church doesn't have the backbone to follow thru on God's word - find one that does. They do exist. Shame on that wife!
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2009 9:28:49 AM
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Katie51
Posts: 227
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline
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Lorilynn:
Have you read James 3? It speaks to the power and danger of the tongue. You are correct that some feel that screaming, cursing and throwing things, etc is not a enough 'violence' to be all that concerned with. Jesus is concerned, and the bible speaks out about alot of things that othesr claim it doesn't. The bible speaks of the dangers of these things, because of the damage...besides the fact its sin.
I found in alot of cases - not all - that churches don't know how to deal with such things, and then they make comments such as your pastor's wife. The clear avenue is to address the sin, and protect the oppressed per scripture. A marriage doesn't change those facts. They are to confront your husband, and protect you and your child. I don't have a reason as to why they don't, except maybe fear and ignorance. It certainly isn't scriptural to allow abuse of any kind to go on without addressing it. The pastor's wife comment wasn't addressing. She was making excuses.
Read your bible again, and try to feel the spirit of the words written. We have to ask ourselves questions like would Jesus allow a man to curse and be violent towards his wife in his presence? I think we all know the answer to that. Why wouldn't he? If people can answer those questions they do realize they need to do something. It seems people tend to make excuses like what did you do beforehand, or can you be nicer, etc. I can't see Jesus doing that either, and why they feel that would be acceptable is beyond me.
People that refuse to deal with the oppressed and the oppressor? They have alot of hot air to share, but no meat to bite into. You don't need to wait for their approval to separate for both of your sakes. You both need help, and NO that isn't marriage counseling. You can do that when the fear and the intimidation of the violence has been removed. You can't speak freely and be totally honest when you have fear of repercussions. Telling you that you need to stay, suffer and endure? That is just spiritual pixie dust that people love to sprinkle. We are to right wrongs the best we can, and not just sit back and watch them happen.
The people of the church can speak alot about how people just throw marriages away with no remorse and hardly any thought. In fact that is one of their favorite speeches! When people get responses like you did? They don't seem to realize what an awesome opportunity they had, and basically threw it away with no thought. You see Christ also stands for mercy, grace and justice. When people worry to much about divorce stats than they do helping a family in trouble? Sit back and wonder what would be said on judgment day. Do you feel God would be in agreement with that decision? They had the power to bring something to you, and all they handed you was burdens.
If that church doesn't have the backbone to follow thru on God's word - find one that does. They do exist. Shame on that wife!
[/quote]
That was such an excellent post. I cannot believe that the merciful God shown to us in Jesus Christ would stand calmly by while one of His children was beaten, ridiculed, or abused in any way. Its pouring salt into a wound to tell a woman she must remain with someone no matter what when there isnt much left of her anyway. I've known of cases where the woman stayed so long she was going crazy by the time she left...on medication for anxiety, kids messed up, finances a disaster. One shouldnt have to live for year and YEARS like this. I dont think God expects that you sit there and be reduced to nothing in the interest of keeping a marriage together.
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