|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/15/2009 12:25:13 AM
|
|
|
Retrobyter
Posts: 809
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: offline
|
Shalom, DanJames.
quote:
ORIGINAL: DanJames
quote:
ORIGINAL: navyblueret
Dan, Shalom.
Jesus addressed this subject about seventy years before John penned Revelation, as dictated by Jesus, through visions. Interesting you would think that more than a normal generation later, John would not have noticed that the Prophecy by Jesus had played, or not played out.
No, I cannot, and will not argue that Israel does not belong to the Israeli people, I am absolutely convinced that from the Med to the Euphrates, belongs to Israel. God has not yet given that between the Jordan and Euphrates yet, but soon will.
Actually, I'm not quite sure why our fellow forum-member listed the verses that were listed above (Joshua 21:43-45), but they actually demonstrate that everything that God was going to give to Israel, was given to them. God promised it, it was given to them. After that, Israel gave it up. We, the Christian church, are now the branches of the Vine of Israel, and we are the Temple, wherein God makes his presence, and inhabits His praise.
No. The members of the "Christian church" are NOT the branches of the Vine of Isra'el, nor are they the Temple. Each one of us believers is a branch that may be grafted into the Olive Tree of Isra'el but then so are the NATURAL branches! "Christian" Gentiles (Goyim) are WILD olive branches that may be grafted in contrary to nature, but the NATURAL branches will graft in easily because they have the SAME DNA! They are, after all, of the same blood as their forefathers and Yeshua` as well! Read Romans 9-11, understanding that "salvation" means "rescue," "saved" means "rescued," and that "Christ" means "Messiah!"
God has given all of the Land (haErets) to Isra'el and his children. Whether they are in possession of it or not, they certainly WILL BE, and that without God recinding it! They who bless Isra'el are blessed; they who curse Isra'el are themselves cursed! The United States of America is a PRIME EXAMPLE of that truth! As long as we were helping Isra'el to regain their land, we too experienced great prosperity. We begin to encourage Isra'el to give up a portion of their land and begin to turn against Isra'el, and ... well, just look around!
While Isra'el may be temporarily blinded, do not mistake that for God giving up on them! To the contrary, they are the Messiah's FAMILY, His MISHPACHAH!
quote:
ORIGINAL: DanJames
quote:
No, 'Debate' is not my cup of tea. I share what I know, but have no desire to banter back and forth, arguing 'at' someone who has indicated, in recent blogs, that he does not seek to listen beyond the point of finding something to trip up the other person has slightly miss-stated on. You are right, and I totally also agree that 'truth' is Paramount (my word), and I do not have the time to play a game of a adversarial situation. Things of Faith can only be proven, in Mortality, through Holy Spirit Faith; and yet we, Christians, seem capable of any number of beliefs, through Faith.
The clarity you appreciate, is what I offered to your beliefs that you stated. You think your way, and I will mine.
Oh, as much as I like most of what PGWB did as President, He was Biblical insanity to even think of such a blunder as to create a two-state solution. That, IMO, was the absolute worst thing he did in his Presidency. (please note that this is my opinion, only//as//)
In Messiah. Arley
I think his biggest blunder was cutting a half-trillion dollar check to bolster the economy. But that's my opinion.
In Messiah, and love for my fellow Church members. Dan
It's not just GWB or any of the other presidents before him, nor is it just Obama. It is a national insanity of believing that we can borrow indefinitely without facing the consequences by putting those consequences off into the future. Eventually, one has to "pay the piper," and that day has come. Now, we are trying to lessen the blow without total collapse.
Remember: "The borrower is servant (slave) to the lender!" That's why it's not such a great thing to have a good credit history. All that means is that you have a record of being a good slave. It's good to be a good slave if you have to be a slave, but it's far better not to be in servitude in the first place!
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 9/15/2009 3:49:33 PM >
_____________________________
Stick to the Scriptures! The minute you start to draw an analogy or explain what a Scripture means or give a particular view of theology, you've left the safety of Absolute Truth, and you're on your own!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/15/2009 12:44:58 AM
|
|
|
navyblueret
Posts: 1972
Joined: 11/29/2008
From: S/W Nebraska
Status: offline
|
Thank you Roy, and Well Said, Well Said.
You address' are, for some reason, and so often, my rough-hewn thoughts, polished bright, that I almost find myself in shock seeing your name on the type, instead of mine. Thank you for speaking my thoughts so clearly (most of them that is  )
I figured out a long time ago, when I went into public service, for a few years, I had only one question, once I entered into the fray: "What on Earth, am I doing Here????" But, most of the time I was Sane.
You are right about the 'National Insanity' being party to all the population. I did see something that scared me half to death, however, that being how so many 'leaders' changed once they took office. It was a sight to behold. A few, I hope myself included, managed to keep what I call a 'Sane' approach to serving the community (key word 'serving'), and helped keep everything on an even keel (OOooo, I love it when I talk Sailor).
Thanks for your words, as they are most welcome.
In Messiah. Keep the watch. Arley
< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 9/15/2009 3:50:55 PM >
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/15/2009 10:02:07 AM
|
|
|
Reba
Posts: 665
Joined: 8/18/2008
Status: online
|
The nation of Israel is not the land the nation of Israel is the people. They were a nation in Egypt, They were a nation before 1917. All the earth is His
< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 9/15/2009 3:50:45 PM >
_____________________________
Chapter and verse are posted so all may look up the context.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/15/2009 11:45:20 AM
|
|
|
navyblueret
Posts: 1972
Joined: 11/29/2008
From: S/W Nebraska
Status: offline
|
Reba, Shalom.
If Israel was still a nation, throughout the last two Millennium, then there is no way that Israel could be 'born in a day,' as required by prophecy. Interesting, also, that for over 1900 years the exiles we can track called themselves the 'Jews,' not the Israel. Israel, if not a 'Non-Nation,' could not be 'Resurrected,' accomplishing something no other extinct civilization had been able to accomplish, become a Nation, and find their Language, all in short order, with the grabber being that when they became a Nation they called it by a name that was basically lost 700 years before Christ, and no one knows exactly where they all are yet, today.
Sorry, my thoughts are running around in circles, due to the many factors that says you use flawed proofs. Egypt was 3,500 years ago. 1917 had no 'Nation' of Israel. Oops there I go back to the circle again.
Enjoy the miracle of Israel's re-birth, and soon Wake-Up Call that goes out to the world, and many many supposed Gentiles suddenly realize that they are of Israel, and are driven to go """H O M E""" (as ET would say).
In Messiah, His Blessing, and Soon coming (6 days and counting??) Arley
< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 9/15/2009 3:50:34 PM >
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/15/2009 12:04:06 PM
|
|
|
Retrobyter
Posts: 809
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: offline
|
Shalom, Reba.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Reba
The nation of Israel is not the land the nation of Israel is the people. They were a nation in Egypt, They were a nation before 1917. All the earth is His
True. The nation of Isra'el is the people, the literal children of Isra'el or Ya'acov (Jacob).
HOWEVER, haErets Yisra'el IS the land of Isra'el! And, THAT is the land under dispute to this day! It was NEVER "given" by God to the Arabs, Jordanians, Saudis, Egyptians, or ANY of the Muslim nations! It was given by God to the people of Isra'el, and that's where it should stay! Read Ezekiel 36 and understand that the "mountains of Isra'el" IS what is called today the "West Bank!" The West Bank is where such cities as Jericho, Shechem, Ai, and Bethel can be found! It is where Bethlehem is! It is where Bethany is! It is where Samaria is! Do you understand? Giving away the West Bank is giving away their HERITAGE!
Furthermore, while it is true that "all the earth is the Lord's," it is not true for the nation of Isra'el! Even in the last nine chapters of Ezekiel (which WILL come to pass), their land is limited between the great River Euphrates and the River of Egypt, and from the Mediterranean Sea and the Eastern Sea (which MAY be the Dead Sea, but it also may refer to the Red Sea, particularly the eastern finger called the Gulf of Aqaba!
We need to start having the same heart for Isra'el that God has always had and still has today!
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 9/15/2009 3:50:23 PM >
_____________________________
Stick to the Scriptures! The minute you start to draw an analogy or explain what a Scripture means or give a particular view of theology, you've left the safety of Absolute Truth, and you're on your own!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/15/2009 1:46:40 PM
|
|
|
DanJames
Posts: 870
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: navyblueret
Dan, your choice runs a close second, for one reason, the half Trillion dollars is only money, messing with the Apple of God's Eye, will haunt for Eternity.
I can go out on a limb and say that Joshuah 21 is partly correct, in-that God told Israel that He was giving them the portion of land they could cope with and control; sort of like a 'Test Plot, to see how things go, on a farm. I cannot locate the statement, but I am sure it is there.
Reba, you just too both sides of the coin. Josh 21 is right, or Gen 15 is right. They cannot both be right. Either the boundary is the Jordan, or the Euphrates, definitely two locations. Consider, please, Euphrates is in TORAH, which cannot be changed, and Joshuah can be changed.
In Messiah. Arley
We ARE the apple of God's eye. Some branches were removed, new ones were grafted in. Not all who are of Abraham are Abraham. It's not based on an ethnicity or a plot of land! We are Israel! Or flesh and bone is the Temple! Folks used to have to travel to Israel to enter God's presence, now His presence lives in us, and we take it to them.
< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 9/15/2009 3:50:05 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/15/2009 2:51:01 PM
|
|
|
navyblueret
Posts: 1972
Joined: 11/29/2008
From: S/W Nebraska
Status: offline
|
Dan, Shalom
Even specific 'Apples' of His eye, who mistreat the other Apples of His eye, can be dropped from the Tree, if they begin to put down the other Apples, and act as if they are some kind of 'Special' Apple. You seem to espouse 'Sameness,' yet speak with exclusivity, and some rejectionistic flavor.
IMO, a portion of the overall picture IS the ethnicity and a plot of land. God has yet to give 'Israel,' the true branches, all of the turf He promised to give. Them giving away something they really do not own, could be a big problem. Of course, I do not believe God will ever allow Israel to give away what He has re-given, but then I sometimes see His word a bit different that others in the Family of God/Christ.
In Messiah. Arley
< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 9/15/2009 3:49:47 PM >
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/15/2009 4:10:14 PM
|
|
|
DanJames
Posts: 870
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: navyblueret
Dan, Shalom
Even specific 'Apples' of His eye, who mistreat the other Apples of His eye, can be dropped from the Tree, if they begin to put down the other Apples, and act as if they are some kind of 'Special' Apple. You seem to espouse 'Sameness,' yet speak with exclusivity, and some rejectionistic flavor.
IMO, a portion of the overall picture IS the ethnicity and a plot of land. God has yet to give 'Israel,' the true branches, all of the turf He promised to give. Them giving away something they really do not own, could be a big problem. Of course, I do not believe God will ever allow Israel to give away what He has re-given, but then I sometimes see His word a bit different that others in the Family of God/Christ.
In Messiah. Arley
Unless Joshua misspoke, God did give them all the land. The covenant was conditional upon Israel herself sticking to the covenant, which they didn't. Since God already gave them all the land, He kept his end of the deal, but he had a better deal in mind. He knew they weren't going to stick to the covenant, but he had a better salvation in mind. Rather than endlessly sending them kings and judges, he sent them the King and the Judge to live in their hearts. He then invited the rest of us to join in so that the true sons of Abraham would be those born of Abraham's true seed, his righteous obedience in believing God's promise.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/15/2009 4:55:52 PM
|
|
|
Reba
Posts: 665
Joined: 8/18/2008
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Reba
The nation of Israel is not the land the nation of Israel is the people. They were a nation in Egypt, They were a nation before 1917. All the earth is His
Could you please PM and tell me what you edited? I do not knowingly break the rules.
_____________________________
Chapter and verse are posted so all may look up the context.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/15/2009 5:07:01 PM
|
|
|
DanJames
Posts: 870
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline
|
I don't think they edited anything. I don't see anything changed, and when they do edit things, they leave a note that says that they edited things, why, and what they edited.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/15/2009 5:21:08 PM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 6377
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
|
Ahh, the title was edited. Someone had changed it to be prejudicial against Preterism a page or two ago and it kept being repeated. So our kind Moderator returned it, one message at a time, back to its original title:
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread
THANKS!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/15/2009 5:40:59 PM
|
|
|
DanJames
Posts: 870
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
Ahh, the title was edited. Someone had changed it to be prejudicial against Preterism a page or two ago and it kept being repeated. So our kind Moderator returned it, one message at a time, back to its original title:
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread
THANKS!
We really do have the coolest moderators ever, don't we!?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/15/2009 6:10:00 PM
|
|
|
navyblueret
Posts: 1972
Joined: 11/29/2008
From: S/W Nebraska
Status: offline
|
Dan, Shalom.
You are half right. God gave Israel part of the land, contingent upon them 'Proving Up,' and staying withing His rules. They failed to do that, and therefore they eventually not only didn't receive that which they had not yet received, but lost what they had.
The other half of the system, which everyone seems to like to forget, is that God gave Abraham all that territory, without reservation, nor qualification. Euphrates to River Nile still will belong to Israel, more than likely after Millennium begins, I do not know, since I can find nothing to address that portion.
So, God promised Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Israel's covenant was conditional, at Mt Sinai, during Exodus, and they messed up at least twice, so God put the Land Grant into escrow, and evicted the Jews. Now, they are back in country, for God to reclaim Israel (the Nation), and change their hearts to hearts of flesh, not for their worth, but for His own. When the Millennium starts, those alive, will see all kinds of miracles happening.
In Messiah. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/15/2009 6:16:24 PM
|
|
|
DanJames
Posts: 870
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: navyblueret
Dan, Shalom.
You are half right. God gave Israel part of the land, contingent upon them 'Proving Up,' and staying withing His rules. They failed to do that, and therefore they eventually not only didn't receive that which they had not yet received, but lost what they had.
The other half of the system, which everyone seems to like to forget, is that God gave Abraham all that territory, without reservation, nor qualification. Euphrates to River Nile still will belong to Israel, more than likely after Millennium begins, I do not know, since I can find nothing to address that portion.
So, God promised Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Israel's covenant was conditional, at Mt Sinai, during Exodus, and they messed up at least twice, so God put the Land Grant into escrow, and evicted the Jews. Now, they are back in country, for God to reclaim Israel (the Nation), and change their hearts to hearts of flesh, not for their worth, but for His own. When the Millennium starts, those alive, will see all kinds of miracles happening.
In Messiah. Arley
He did promise Israel to Abraham, but it is not through Abraham's natural seed that the promise is reconed.
Romans 9
6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the natural children who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/15/2009 6:34:34 PM
|
|
|
navyblueret
Posts: 1972
Joined: 11/29/2008
From: S/W Nebraska
Status: offline
|
Replacement Theology, I do not debate, nor address the stupidity of the subject. IMO. Good Day.
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/15/2009 7:02:26 PM
|
|
|
DanJames
Posts: 870
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: navyblueret
Replacement Theology, I do not debate, nor address the stupidity of the subject. IMO. Good Day.
It's not replacement. The chosen people always have, and always will be, those who believed God, to whom it was accredited as righteousness. Esau wasn't one of these people, nor was Ishmael, both of Abraham's line. Only to Isaac, whom God chose, and to Jacob. Jacob wasn't Esau's replacement, he was the one whom God chose. Likewise, there were many who died in the desert and didn't see the promised land. I just don't understand why this doctrine is so offensive.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/15/2009 7:07:51 PM
|
|
|
yohannan
Posts: 265
Joined: 2/23/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DanJames
quote:
ORIGINAL: navyblueret
Dan, Shalom.
You are half right. God gave Israel part of the land, contingent upon them 'Proving Up,' and staying withing His rules. They failed to do that, and therefore they eventually not only didn't receive that which they had not yet received, but lost what they had.
The other half of the system, which everyone seems to like to forget, is that God gave Abraham all that territory, without reservation, nor qualification. Euphrates to River Nile still will belong to Israel, more than likely after Millennium begins, I do not know, since I can find nothing to address that portion.
So, God promised Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Israel's covenant was conditional, at Mt Sinai, during Exodus, and they messed up at least twice, so God put the Land Grant into escrow, and evicted the Jews. Now, they are back in country, for God to reclaim Israel (the Nation), and change their hearts to hearts of flesh, not for their worth, but for His own. When the Millennium starts, those alive, will see all kinds of miracles happening.
In Messiah. Arley
He did promise Israel to Abraham, but it is not through Abraham's natural seed that the promise is reconed.
Romans 9
6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the natural children who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”
Out of Egypt did The Lord draw the tribes of Israel; it is wriiten wherever in the diaspora among Ephraim and other tribal cohorts that I Send You among the Empires would be the fulfillment of the Prophecy.
For do not The Prophets read that empires are as trees watered along the riverhead planted in the Garden of God? In Revelation it is written that the final preMillennial riverhead is the Euphrates which are those nations since Egypt including those that were planted along the Tigris (tiger or lion like animal) from before like Babylon.
The other two riverheads mentioned in The Prophecy of Genesis given to Moses happened among the nations before the flood event.
The final river was mentioned in The Prophets and Revelation as the Euphrates which is the major empire in existence directly preceeding the final seven year period which is that the period of the gog and magog war of the false prophet pseudoApostle beast from the earth will come first and then the restricted commerce of the mark of the number of his name will be implemented for he will prevail over the major empires of the world along with ten worldwide leaders who have a covenant with him confirmed. Eu is European root word for the times of the greeks and Romans up to, and including, this present time period.
Therefore, God's promise is from the Nile and to the Euphrates which is and has been continuing toward fulfillment in the times of the gentile nations that have come for He had given them certain things among them so that they could make in accordance with The Word spoken through Jeremiah The Prophet in the diaspora.
The true inheritors of the Promise are the believers counted among those who by grace and through faith received the covenant, Here I AM and the children that God has given for the children of God are those of the Living for Eve The Woman was the Mother of all of those that are Living as written. And Babylon was the spiritual city of wickedness of the children of the Dragon which there is enmity with the Dragon among the true children of the reckoning of Eve children.
Ashes to ashes and dust to dust, for The Lord sentenced the ancient serpent in the Garden to lick the dust of the tabernacle as written: You shall be appointed to die once; then The Resurrection and The Judgment.
< Message edited by yohannan -- 9/15/2009 7:17:44 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/15/2009 9:09:26 PM
|
|
|
Reba
Posts: 665
Joined: 8/18/2008
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DanJames
quote:
ORIGINAL: navyblueret
Replacement Theology, I do not debate, nor address the stupidity of the subject. IMO. Good Day.
It's not replacement. The chosen people always have, and always will be, those who believed God, to whom it was accredited as righteousness. Esau wasn't one of these people, nor was Ishmael, both of Abraham's line. Only to Isaac, whom God chose, and to Jacob. Jacob wasn't Esau's replacement, he was the one whom God chose. Likewise, there were many who died in the desert and didn't see the promised land. I just don't understand why this doctrine is so offensive.
Amen
_____________________________
Chapter and verse are posted so all may look up the context.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/16/2009 2:39:45 AM
|
|
|
Retrobyter
Posts: 809
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: offline
|
Shalom, DanJames.
quote:
ORIGINAL: DanJames
quote:
ORIGINAL: navyblueret
Replacement Theology, I do not debate, nor address the stupidity of the subject. IMO. Good Day.
It's not replacement. The chosen people always have, and always will be, those who believed God, to whom it was accredited as righteousness. Esau wasn't one of these people, nor was Ishmael, both of Abraham's line. Only to Isaac, whom God chose, and to Jacob. Jacob wasn't Esau's replacement, he was the one whom God chose. Likewise, there were many who died in the desert and didn't see the promised land. I just don't understand why this doctrine is so offensive.
You don't?! It's really quite simple: If God made promises to a people that He no longer has to keep because of a loop-hole, then what hope do we truly have that He will keep His promises of eternal life to us?! He may just come up with another loop-hole and worm His way out of His promises.
Now, rest assured; I don't believe that would happen for a moment! And, because I don't believe that God makes promises He can't or won't keep, I can believe that He will keep His promises to Daviyd, to Shlomo, to national Isra'el, and to all the world. Listen again to the promises God made:
2 Sam 7:8-16
8 Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David, Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel:
9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth.
10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,
11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the Lord telleth thee that he will make thee an house.
12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.
KJV
THIS IS AN UNCONDITIONAL PROMISE!
2 Chron 7:12-21
12 And the Lord appeared to Solomon by night, and said unto him, I have heard thy prayer, and have chosen this place to myself for an house of sacrifice.
13 If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people;
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
15 Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer that is made in this place.
16 For now have I chosen and sanctified this house, that my name may be there for ever: and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.
17 And as for thee, if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, and do according to all that I have commanded thee, and shalt observe my statues and my judgments;
18 Then will I stablish the throne of thy kingdom, according as I have covenanted with David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man to be ruler in Israel.
19 But if ye turn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;
20 Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations.
21 And this house, which is high, shall be an astonishment to every one that passeth by it; so that he shall say, Why hath the Lord done thus unto this land, and unto this house
KJV
While the promises made directly to Shlomo (Solomon) were conditional and Shlomo broke the conditions, there was a restatement of the promise already made to Daviyd in verse 18. Consider the ramifications of the following verse:
Lev 25:23
23 The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine; for ye are strangers and sojourners with me.
KJV
2 Chron 33:7-8
7 And he set a carved image, the idol which he had made, in the house of God, of which God had said to David and to Solomon his son, In this house, and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen before all the tribes of Israel, will I put my name for ever:
8 Neither will I any more remove the foot of Israel from out of the land which I have appointed for your fathers; so that they will take heed to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.
KJV
Ps 21:1-11
1 The king shall joy in thy strength, O Lord; and in thy salvation how greatly shall he rejoice!
2 Thou hast given him his heart's desire, and hast not withholden the request of his lips. Selah.
3 For thou preventest him with the blessings of goodness: thou settest a crown of pure gold on his head.
4 He asked life of thee, and thou gavest it him, even length of days for ever and ever.
5 His glory is great in thy salvation: honour and majesty hast thou laid upon him.
6 For thou hast made him most blessed for ever: thou hast made him exceeding glad with thy countenance.
7 For the king trusteth in the Lord, and through the mercy of the most High he shall not be moved.
8 Thine hand shall find out all thine enemies: thy right hand shall find out those that hate thee.
9 Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the Lord shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them.
10 Their fruit shalt thou destroy from the earth, and their seed from among the children of men.
11 For they intended evil against thee: they imagined a mischievous device, which they are not able to perform.
KJV
Ps 89
1 I will sing of the mercies of the Lord for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.
2 For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens.
3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
5 And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O Lord: thy faithfulness also in the congregation of the saints.
6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the Lord? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the Lord?
7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him.
8 O Lord God of hosts, who is a strong Lord like unto thee? or to thy faithfulness round about thee?
9 Thou rulest the raging of the sea: when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them.
10 Thou hast broken Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm.
11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.
12 The north and the south thou hast created them: Tabor and Hermon shall rejoice in thy name.
13 Thou hast a mighty arm: strong is thy hand, and high is thy right hand.
14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.
15 Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O Lord, in the light of thy countenance.
16 In thy name shall they rejoice all the day: and in thy righteousness shall they be exalted.
17 For thou art the glory of their strength: and in thy favour our horn shall be exalted.
18 For the Lord is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.
20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:
21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.
22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.
24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.
26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
36 His seed shall endure forever, and his throne as the sun before me.
37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.
38 But thou hast cast off and abhorred, thou hast been wroth with thine anointed.
39 Thou hast made void the covenant of thy servant: thou hast profaned his crown by casting it to the ground.
40 Thou hast broken down all his hedges; thou hast brought his strong holds to ruin.
41 All that pass by the way spoil him: he is a reproach to his neighbours.
42 Thou hast set up the right hand of his adversaries; thou hast made all his enemies to rejoice.
43 Thou hast also turned the edge of his sword, and hast not made him to stand in the battle.
44 Thou hast made his glory to cease, and cast his throne down to the ground.
45 The days of his youth hast thou shortened: thou hast covered him with shame. Selah.
46 How long, Lord? wilt thou hide thyself for ever? shall thy wrath burn like fire?
47 Remember how short my time is: wherefore hast thou made all men in vain?
48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.
49 Lord, where are thy former lovingkindnesses, which thou swarest unto David in thy truth?
50 Remember, Lord, the reproach of thy servants; how I do bear in my bosom the reproach of all the mighty people;
51 Wherewith thine enemies have reproached, O Lord; wherewith they have reproached the footsteps of thine anointed.
52 Blessed be the Lord for evermore. Amen, and Amen.
KJV
Ezek 37:19-28
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28 And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
KJV
Mic 4:5-8
5 For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the Lord our God for ever and ever.
6 In that day, saith the Lord, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted;
7 And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the Lord shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.
8 And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.
KJV
Luke 1:30-33
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
KJV
Rom 11:25-29
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
KJV
How many times does He have to say it? Isra'el IS His people! Surely they are His people more than any gathering of Gentiles! Those of us who are Gentiles aught not to take offense at that; rather, we should be ENCOURAGED that He is faithful to His promises for His own sake! We were added to the Kingdom when we had no right to it!
So, don't change Gentile believers into being a substitute Isra'el. That's not necessary! We have been grafted into the Commonwealth of Isra'el by His great mercy and wisdom and grace. But, don't forget that God's Kingdom was established in Isra'el FAR before Gentile believers were added through the far-reaching impact of the Messiah's sacrifice.
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
_____________________________
Stick to the Scriptures! The minute you start to draw an analogy or explain what a Scripture means or give a particular view of theology, you've left the safety of Absolute Truth, and you're on your own!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/16/2009 9:17:45 AM
|
|
|
Reba
Posts: 665
Joined: 8/18/2008
Status: online
|
quote:
16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.
KJV
Jesus Christ is King.
1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
_____________________________
Chapter and verse are posted so all may look up the context.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/16/2009 11:30:32 PM
|
|
|
Retrobyter
Posts: 809
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: offline
|
Shalom, Reba.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Reba
quote:
16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.
KJV
Jesus Christ is King.
1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Sorry, Reba, but that's not quite right. Yeshua` haMashiach WILL BE King; He most certainly is destined and deserves to be the King of Isra'el and ultimately Emperor (King of Kings) of the World.
I Tim. 1:17 is unto the "the only wise God," YHVH!
Matt. 5:45 is talking about Yeshua`s FATHER who is also OUR Father who is in the sky. HE is the One who "makes His sun to rise on the evil and on the good and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."
John 14:3 is indeed talking about Yeshua`, but it has nothing to do with Him being King or not being King.
Here's some that DO talk of Yeshua` being king:
Ps 2:1-12
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
KJV
Ps 48:1-2
1 Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness.
2 Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.
KJV
Isa 32:1
32 Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment.
KJV
Zech 9:9
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
KJV
Matt 2:1-3
1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
KJV
Matt 5:34-35
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
KJV
Matt 27:11
11 And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest.
KJV
Matt 27:29
29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
KJV
Luke 1:30-33
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
KJV
Luke 19:38
38 Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
KJV
Luke 23:2-3
2 And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King.
3 And Pilate asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answered him and said, Thou sayest it.
KJV
John 1:49
49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
KJV
John 12:12-15
12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,
15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.
KJV
John 18:33-37
33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?
34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?
35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
KJV
Acts 13:21-22, 33-37
21 And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years.
22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
...
33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
KJV
1 Cor 15:20-28
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV
Rev 15:3-4
3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.
KJV
Rev 17:14
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
KJV
Rev 19:11-16
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
KJV
These are just some of the verses that actually talk about the Messiah Yeshua` becoming King of the Jews and then King of kings. He is not now the King. He is the Messiah (or the Greek form, Christ)--Anointed TO BE King! We can rest assured that He SHALL be King when He returns and we, out of loyalty to Him, can claim Him to be our King early, but we should not lose sight of the fact that He not quite there, yet. As one would say in a ball game, "It's all over but the shouting!"
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
_____________________________
Stick to the Scriptures! The minute you start to draw an analogy or explain what a Scripture means or give a particular view of theology, you've left the safety of Absolute Truth, and you're on your own!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/16/2009 11:33:33 PM
|
|
|
DanJames
Posts: 870
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline
|
Roy, how do those verses say anything other than Jesus actually being the King?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/17/2009 12:10:17 AM
|
|
|
Retrobyter
Posts: 809
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: offline
|
Shalom, DanJames.
quote:
ORIGINAL: DanJames
Roy, how do those verses say anything other than Jesus actually being the King?
Well, you should have picked up on that from Luke 1:30-33, but here are a few more that weren't listed:
Ps 110:1-7
1 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.
7 He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.
KJV
Luke 1:30-33
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
KJV
Rev 5:10
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
KJV
Rev 11:15
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
KJV
Rev 20:6
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
KJV
The future tense is used in all of these passages. We are told that the Jews of Yeshua`s day rejected Him, and He in turn rejected them temporarily:
Matt 23:37-39
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV
The phrase He is waiting for the Jews, particularly those Orthodox Jews of Jerusalem, to say, "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the LORD," is a phrase quoted by Yeshua` from Psalm 118:26 and the Hebrew of that phrase is "Baruwk haba' b'shem YHVH." Jews still use the phrase "Baruwk haba'" ("Blessed [is] the one-who-comes") to welcome someone into their houses! When they can welcome Him back to be their King as they KNEW they should have the first time (evidenced when Yeshua` rode into Yerushalayim on a donkey's colt), THEN He shall return, and THEN He shall be their King as promised.
He has never ceased to be called the "Christ" (based on the Greek word "Christos" for "Anointed") or the "Messiah" (based on the Hebrew word "Mashiach" for "Anointed"). He is not now called "Basileus" in Greek nor "Melekh" in Hebrew, both meaning "King." God's Anointed is God's Choice for King. It's the same as our phrase, "President-elect" or "King-apparent."
Now, I KNOW this is tough to hear for the Christian who has been constantly bombarded with the premature Kingship of the Messiah, but timing IS a factor that should not be ignored.
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
< Message edited by Retrobyter -- 9/17/2009 12:16:52 AM >
_____________________________
Stick to the Scriptures! The minute you start to draw an analogy or explain what a Scripture means or give a particular view of theology, you've left the safety of Absolute Truth, and you're on your own!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: All Preterism All The Time - One Stop Thread - 9/17/2009 12:19:51 AM
|
|
|
DanJames
Posts: 870
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline
|
I don't think that your verses prohibit him from being called King, because that's what He is. Whether or not we recognize him as King is the difference. Whether he was King from birth or King from all eternity, he is most certainly King now. Pilate asked whether or not he was a king and Jesus replied "It is as you say."
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
