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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/20/2008 2:01:25 AM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
I fixed the scripture it was 12:28. sorry!
Ah, that makes more sense, thank you! : ) Here's my take.
There is, obviously, more than one language in the world. Not everyone who speaks in tongues will speak in the same knowable (but unknown to the speaker!), earthly language. Hence, various tongues.
I think that, given that Paul here is giving a "grocery list," of sorts, of Spiritual gifts, he would differentiate between different kinds of "tongues" if that was what he had in mind here.
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In 1 Cor. 14:4 says that he that speaketh in a tongue edifieth himself....
I've addressed this verse previously in this thread, but I will be happy to do so again.
Paul is addressing the misuse of tongues in 1 Corinthians 14. Part of the way the Corinthian church was abusing the gift of tongues was by using them to only build up themselves - they were speaking them publicly in church in a way that was disruptive and self-serving, and not being used to build up the Body. Paul here is not encouraging speaking tongues to edify the self, but rather attacking them. Remember that chapter 14 comes right after the famous love chapter - a chapter which focuses on how any gift, no matter how great, that is used without love is worthless. How is love expressed by using the Spiritual gift of tongues only for oneself expressing love?
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The groanings may not be uttered by us(our understanding) but it can be prayed through us...tongues. The Spirit knows what to pray even when we do not. He still uses us as he vocalizes.
That's reading more into the verse (namely, saying that it cannot be uttered by us, which I believe is nowhere in the original language) than I, personally, am willing to accept.
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If we take the verse that the Spirit prays for us....and just sit around and say well we do not need to pray...the Spirit is praying for us....This is ridiculous! The spirit prays through us...How do you explain this?
But really, taking your interpretation, isn't it pretty much the same thing? We're not really praying if we're just sitting there and letting the Spirit control us entirely, are we?
There are a couple of possibilities. 1, the Holy Spirit prays to the Father independently, apart from us. We have many examples of the Son praying to the Father, so I don't think the Spirit praying to the Father is any more far-fetched.
2, the "groaning" motif is used heavily in Romans 8:18-25. Surely, all of creation does not speak in tongues, correct? Rather, I think the groaning may, possibly, represent the way creation, our own spirit, and the Holy Spirit all cry out for God's redemption of all creation (us included) in their own way.
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Jesus sent the Holy Spirit after he ascended whether you think so or not. Spiritual gifts are real - whether you think so or not. FURTHER the Holy Spirit is, HIMSELF a gift to believers
Well said, well said!
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Last time I looked, there were individuals in church - can you imagine if no one ever prayed to God outside of church?
I am certainly not saying prayer should not be done outside of church! Certainly not, may it never be! But, last time I checked, tongues were not required for prayer. When Jesus taught His disciples to pray, tongues were never mentioned. What I am trying to say is that Spiritual gifts are given for the church, to build the church up as a Body. They are given to individuals, but not for individual benefit.
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I do not believe you must speak in tongues to go to heaven. I do not see where the Bible says that.
Good, otherwise we would have a very serious disagreement on our hands, instead of (what I hope is, anyway) a friendly discussion. Seriously, if you feel I have been anything but friendly and cordial, I would appreciate it if you would tell me! Sometimes I fear my tone may be taken wrong, since it can be difficult to read tone online at times.
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But you most certainly can and do speak in tongues if you are filled with the Holy Spirit.
What do you base the idea of "filled with the Spirit" on? Ephesians 5? I'm curious, but it would really be a matter for another thread, heh.
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And as for you, young Mr. F, just what are you asking? To see if people know their Bibles? Or possibly just fishing to see what bites?
As a student of Scripture, I feel the urge to do my best to ensure that what we believe is based on Scripture - Scripture properly exegeted, interpreted, understood and applied. And while I certainly don't think it's a matter of one's eternal salvation by any stretch of the imagination, I feel it is not healthy for the Church as a whole when the gifts of the Spirits are used selfishly, to edify the individual.
_____________________________
"To the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sun is really a sun; to the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sea is really a sea."
-G. K. Chesterton
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/20/2008 8:32:29 AM
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awaken
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
I fixed the scripture it was 12:28. sorry!
Ah, that makes more sense, thank you! : ) Here's my take.
There is, obviously, more than one language in the world. Not everyone who speaks in tongues will speak in the same knowable (but unknown to the speaker!), earthly language. Hence, various tongues.
I think that, given that Paul here is giving a "grocery list," of sorts, of Spiritual gifts, he would differentiate between different kinds of "tongues" if that was what he had in mind here.
So you are saying that the diversities of tongues is the different languages, not the different operations (manifestations) of that tongue?
Do you believe there are different operations of tongues...personal edification,tongues for interpretation,deep groanings,sign for the unbeliever? Without understanding these different operation of this gift...scriptures seem to contradict.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/20/2008 9:40:58 AM
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solarflare
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quote:
heh.
heh
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/20/2008 9:51:32 AM
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solarflare
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quote:
I feel it is not healthy for the Church as a whole when the gifts of the Spirits are used selfishly, to edify the individual.
With all due respect - I would like to suggest to you that perhaps your use of the word "feel" is not quite in keeping with Biblical exegesis.
Perhaps this is a personal conviction on your part?
Another question, What do you base this feeling on?
< Message edited by solarflare -- 6/20/2008 9:58:27 AM >
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/20/2008 11:25:48 AM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
So you are saying that the diversities of tongues is the different languages, not the different operations (manifestations) of that tongue?
Precisely.
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Do you believe there are different operations of tongues...personal edification,tongues for interpretation,deep groanings,sign for the unbeliever? Without understanding these different operation of this gift...scriptures seem to contradict.
How so? I see nothing in Scripture that suggests different manifestations of the gift of tongues. In my opinion, verses and passages used to defend this view are taken out of context as misapplied.
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With all due respect - I would like to suggest to you that perhaps your use of the word "feel" is not quite in keeping with Biblical exegesis.
Perhaps this is a personal conviction on your part?
I use the word "feel" because I am willing to admit that I could be wrong, and I realize that, ultimately, it doesn't matter a whole lot. If this were a salvation issue, I would not be using "feel," because that would be a literally dead-serious matter. But this, ultimately, isn't; and given the vast number of biblical scholars who fall on both sides (well, there's more than two sides, but ya' know) of this argument, it would be pretty arrogant of me to imply, by my word choice, that my view is the only possible view.
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Another question, What do you base this feeling on?
Scripture. I would like to say it's all based on the Greek, but I haven't taken the time to fully exegete these passages in the original language, so I've had to stick with the English until I actually have time to sit down and really look at it.
_____________________________
"To the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sun is really a sun; to the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sea is really a sea."
-G. K. Chesterton
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/20/2008 2:57:53 PM
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awaken
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O.k. so the fact that he says tongues is a sign for the unbeliever...if it is not a different manifestation, How does Acts 19 a sign to the unbeliever?
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/20/2008 7:08:49 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
If Paul was addressing an unruly situation in church, why do you think he also intended it for private prayer and worship?
That's exactly my point - I don't think he was intending it for that. The church in Corinth was misusing tongues as a means of personal edification, and Paul was sarcastically stating their argument (that tongues edifies the individual), and the proceeding to show them that they were wrong. Tongues were meant to be used to edify the Body.
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With regards to love, I do believe you are extrapolating meaning from Paul's discourse on love in a way that he did not intend. Paul was addressing the fact that love is the greatest of the three things that will not pass away - what has that got to do with a person's private prayer life?
Except that chapter 13 is not independent of the rest of 1 Corinthians. Obviously, Paul is not suddenly changing topics in chapter 13, and then immediately going back to another topic in 14. Rather, I feel that in 1 Corinthians 13, Paul is showing the Corinthians that not only do they need to change their ways, but they need to do so with a focus of love.
Part of the way the Corinthians were not showing love was by speaking in tongues improperly - that's why Paul uses a hyperbolic example of not only speaking in other human tongues (which was the normal way tongues are practiced) and angels, something above and beyond the gift the Corinthians were abusing (and something Paul himself did not actually do - he was merely using hyperbole to make a point). He was showing that they were using the Spiritual gift of tongues without love, and so despite what they thought of it, it was worthless to them.
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O.k. so the fact that he says tongues is a sign for the unbeliever...if it is not a different manifestation, How does Acts 19 a sign to the unbeliever?
We don't know exactly who was present at that gathering. It mentions 12 men, but are those the people who received the Holy Spirit - and if that's the case, then surely there's nothing in the text to say those were the only men there? Or did less than the 12 receive the Spirit then, and so the remainder were the unbelievers? There's just no way that we can know for sure.
_____________________________
"To the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sun is really a sun; to the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sea is really a sea."
-G. K. Chesterton
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/20/2008 9:42:52 PM
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awaken
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quote:
O.k. so the fact that he says tongues is a sign for the unbeliever...if it is not a different manifestation, How does Acts 19 a sign to the unbeliever?
quote:
We don't know exactly who was present at that gathering. It mentions 12 men, but are those the people who received the Holy Spirit - and if that's the case, then surely there's nothing in the text to say those were the only men there? Or did less than the 12 receive the Spirit then, and so the remainder were the unbelievers? There's just no way that we can know for sure.
Does it matter if it was 2 or 12? The question was how was it a sign for unbelievers and where were there interpreters?
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/20/2008 10:30:22 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
Does it matter if it was 2 or 12?
It's a simple fact that were at least 12 men - it says so right there in the text. The point I was trying to raise was that we don't know exactly who those 12 were, or if they were the only people there. But ultimately, I feel it isn't a big matter, since while tongues used properly can be a sign for unbelievers, that is not there primary purpose. When Paul says they are a sign to unbelievers, what he is trying to get across is the fact that, if tongues are used properly, they will be a positive tool for evangelism. But if they are used in the false way the Corinthians were using them, then they would merely confuse and deter unbelievers.
So, to answer your question...
quote:
The question was how was it a sign for unbelievers and where were there interpreters?
1, as I've hopefully explained above, not every instance of tongues is meant as a sign for unbelievers. But, it is certainly possible that some unbelievers were present when this incident happened. The text is not exhaustive. It does not tell us every single detail. Their method of reporting history is very different from our own, so we should not expect a detail-by-detail report of exactly what happened.
2, no interpreters being mentioned does not mean there weren't any. I'm pretty sure translated tongues are not explicitly mentioned in Acts anywhere, yet Paul says they should be the norm for the Church. Perhaps the translations are assumed?
_____________________________
"To the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sun is really a sun; to the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sea is really a sea."
-G. K. Chesterton
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/20/2008 11:28:20 PM
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awaken
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We seem to be going around in circles because you said youself that not every instance of tongues is meant as a sign for unbelievers....so you are saying there are different operations of that manifestation.
I would like you to show me where in scriptures is says that tongues is for evangelism? Because every instance recorded in Acts 2, 10, 19 tongues is not evangelizing...they are praising and magnifying God. It does not say that they use them to preach. In Acts.....the disciples spoke in tongues, but Peter preached. Chapter 10 the Gentiles magnified God. They were not preaching they were speaking to God. The same with the others.
Yes tongues in Corinthians as a ministry to the church( I believe this is just one manifestation)but even the interpretation is to build up the church. Most tongues I have heard with the interpretation, it is mostly praises to God.
Paul says in 1 cor. 14:14 ..if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful...........vs. 17 for thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified(helped). It is not that the praying in the Spirit is wrong because he said ..it was well. But it was not good in the church without an interpretation. Also vs. 2 says he that speaketh in an tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God(sounds like prayer to me).
Any way I just do not see it your way, I believe the scriptures teach-prayer in tongues-prayer in the spirit. I also believe the gift of tongues is used in more than one way(diversities of tongues). So we will have to agree to disagree.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/21/2008 12:20:32 AM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
you said youself that not every instance of tongues is meant as a sign for unbelievers....so you are saying there are different operations of that manifestation.
Let's say your Pastor preaches a sermon on Sunday morning. It's an amazing, powerful sermon, and the congregation is moved by God through it in a mighty way. But, there were no unbelievers in the congregation that morning. Obviously, that sermon was not directly used for evangelistic purposes.
Now, if, in this hypothetical situation, there had been an unbeliever in the congregation, and God chose to use that particular sermon to lead that individual to salvation, then obviously, that sermon would have also, simultaneously been used for evangelism and for teaching.
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I would like you to show me where in scriptures is says that tongues is for evangelism? Because every instance recorded in Acts 2
How do you not see evangelism in Acts 2?
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In Acts.....the disciples spoke in tongues, but Peter preached.
In Acts, even though we don't get a word-for-word translation of the tongues, that doesn't mean that the tongues were not translated, and that the translation was not somehow supplemental to Peter's preaching.
If we assume that these tongues went untranslated because it is never explicitly stated, then neither should we say that speaking in tongues is the normal manifestation of being filled "with" the Spirit, since that is never stated either.
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Also vs. 2 says he that speaketh in an tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God(sounds like prayer to me).
Again, Paul here is using the Corinthian's argument against themselves. Where in Scripture do we see anyone praying to God in a way that is incomprehensible? Even Christ, in the most passionate moment of His ministry on earth, the garden of Gethsemane, prayed in a known, understandable language.
Now, I'm sure that someone will say, "That was before Pentecost!" Granted. But it still stands that nowhere in Scripture is there evidence of prayer, or any other speaking to God, that is unknown to the pray-er. The idea of God's message going out in a known language (though unknown to the speaker) is not uncommon in prophetic books, but a completely unknown language? I simply do not see it.
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Any way I just do not see it your way
And that is perfectly, truly fine. : )
Seriously, I am willing and ready to admit I may be wrong on this one. Like I've said before, people much smarter than me fall on every side of this discussion. I'm merely looking at what I think Scripture says, and trying to defend it. If you disagree, that's fine. This issue won't keep either of us out of heaven if the other is wrong, so at the end of the day, if you don't agree with me, and I don't agree with you, then that's A-OK.
_____________________________
"To the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sun is really a sun; to the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sea is really a sea."
-G. K. Chesterton
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/21/2008 9:46:41 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
...Where in Scripture do we see anyone praying to God in a way that is incomprehensible?
(1Co 14:2) For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
Speaking to God = prayer.
No man understandeth = incomprehensible;.
Praying in tongues is man speaking to God (prayer).
Prophecy in tongues in God speaking to man (and must be interpreted).
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/21/2008 9:46:42 AM
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awaken
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First off, When a preacher is preaching to a congregation in English(his known language)....that is not tongues. Tongues is speaking a language that the speaker does not understand himself. So if (in your illustration) the preacher was using tongues...in the congregation, where is the interpreter? Tongues is a supernatural(something that can not be done without the Holy Spirit)....Anyone can preach...some can interprete...some can speak more than one language....but that is not the manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
An illustration that would best discribe speaking in tongues for the a sign to the unbeliever would be.....is if someone speaks in tongues and an unbeliever that speaks the language( he spoke in tongues) understands. This is the day of pentecost....the disciples spoke in tongues, the unbelievers heard them (magnifying God-not speaking directly to them)....this got their attention and Peter preached to them. It is what they witnessed that day in tongues that made it possible for there hearts to be open to Peters preaching. So if this is how you say it is used in evangalism-I agree.
Where in the examples in the Bible does it not say the people speaking in tongues were not filled with the Spirit....
Acts 2:4 and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to seak with other tongues...
Acts 10:44-47 While Peter yet spake...the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Acts 19 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues....
Seems to be a connection to being filled with the Holy Spirit.
I agree that the language spoken by the one speaking in tongues(manifestation of the Spirit) is a known language...somewhere...who knows it could be the language from the tower of Babel(don't go off here, I just threw this out there)
As far as Jesus praying in tongues...it does not say...so we are only assuming either way.
Your last statement I say amen too! I do not get offended when someone disagrees with me...unless he says it is of the devil...that gets me a little stirred...because when I went to God to guide me into truth...I do not believe he gave me a stone...His Spirit guided me into the truth. As long as I was trying to understand this with my intellect(which is limited) I could not see this...I debated it from your side. But when the Spirit showed this to me, I excepted it by faith...I experienced it....that seed of truth, well, no ones unbelief can steal it away. I just wish I could help others see the importance of this wonderful manifestation...But it does not have any thing to do with your salvation. I believe all that are saved can pray in tongues, but they have not been taught that it is there. ....you get a swiss knife for a gift, it has all the other attachments, I have no idea what they do ....some people(like me) had to learn how to manifest the gifts within the GIFT.
< Message edited by awaken -- 6/21/2008 11:25:08 PM >
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/21/2008 11:20:36 AM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
First off, When a preacher is preaching to a congregation in English(his known language)....that is not tongues. Tongues is speaking a language that the speaker does not understand himself. So if (in your illustration) the preacher was using tongues...in the congregation, where is the interpreter? Tongues is a supernatural(something that can not be done without the Holy Spirit)....Anyone can preach...some can interprete...some can speak more than one language....but that is not the manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
I was making a point that tongues being used for more than one purpose does not mean it is a different manifestation of tongues. Obviously, tongues is not the only Spiritual gift. If someone is using their Spiritual gift of preaching, then it can have different effects on different people - both edification and evangelism. The same goes for tongues. The same, singular manifestation can have multiple impacts, depending on who hears it.
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Where in the examples in the Bible does it not say the people speaking in tongues were not filled with the Spirit....
What I'm saying is that, we can't infer that speaking in tongues is the evidence of being filled "with" the Spirit, since the Bible never explicitly states it is.
quote:
Speaking to God = prayer.
No man understandeth = incomprehensible;.
Praying in tongues is man speaking to God (prayer).
Prophecy in tongues in God speaking to man (and must be interpreted).
Heh, I've addressed this verse multiple times in this thread. I do not believe Paul is saying this should be the norm for the Christian. I believe he is stating a false argument that the Corinthians were using, and then countering it with the truth that tongues must be translated, because tongues, like any and every Spiritual gift, must be used to edify the Body, not the self.
_____________________________
"To the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sun is really a sun; to the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sea is really a sea."
-G. K. Chesterton
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/21/2008 10:42:14 PM
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Godhead
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Paul clearly prophesied that the gifts they were now blessed with would cease.
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
(1Co 13:8-10)
Now he was clear as crystal.
He tells us of what will vanish away, and what will stay.
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
(1Co 13:13)
The gifts are not hear anymore just as Paul had predicted. No one can lay claim to what God is not giving anymore. We have the Bible and in that is all we need for our instruction on everything.
_____________________________
"Faith consists in the knowledge of God and Christ. It is always by his word that he manifests himself to those whom he designs to draw to himself." (John Calvin)
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/21/2008 11:16:57 PM
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awaken
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Those instructions include the Holy Spirit and how he can be manifested through believers.
People that believe this always skip when they will be done away....When we see face to face, and we know even as also we are known....This will not happen until Jesus returns.
Out of everything that speaks of the manifestation....those that do not believe hang on the one word..that which is perfect(telios). ONE WORD! Why if this was pertaining to His completed word would he not use a word that described the written word...there are plenty.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/21/2008 11:27:49 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
He tells us of what will vanish away, and what will stay.
As I said before, you are free to refuse and apparently you have done so
If YOU say something, that does not make it so. You are twisting that scripture as do all who say that the gifts have passed. I guess the gift of tongues is especially troublesome to the devil even though it is the least of the gifts.
BTW, Martin Luther was very mistaken in some of what he believed also.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/22/2008 9:14:37 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Godhead
Paul clearly prophesied that the gifts they were now blessed with would cease.
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
(1Co 13:8-10)
Now he was clear as crystal.
He tells us of what will vanish away, and what will stay.
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
(1Co 13:13)
The gifts are not hear anymore just as Paul had predicted. No one can lay claim to what God is not giving anymore. We have the Bible and in that is all we need for our instruction on everything.
Knowledge is gone away?
I still know my phone number and how to log on to Crosswalk.
So that verse must be speaking to the future, maybe when Christ comes back to set up the Kingdon in Revelations.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/23/2008 5:21:18 PM
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wacotton
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Godhead
Paul clearly prophesied that the gifts they were now blessed with would cease.
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
(1Co 13:8-10)
Now he was clear as crystal.
He tells us of what will vanish away, and what will stay.
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
(1Co 13:13)
The gifts are not hear anymore just as Paul had predicted. No one can lay claim to what God is not giving anymore. We have the Bible and in that is all we need for our instruction on everything.
Paul said the letter kills but the Spirit gives life!
The Bible is just dead letter without the quickening of the Holy Spirit.
Also you left off verses 11-12 from the passage above which make it clear that that which is perfect is Christ not the Bible.
1 Corinthians 13:11-12
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
_____________________________
Bill Cotton
2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/24/2008 1:57:01 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 2341
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From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
You are twisting that scripture as do all who say that the gifts have passed.
I might not go so far as to say "twisting," but I agree that, in this instance, Godhed seems to have a wrong interpretation. 1 Corinthians 13, in my opinion, cannot be used as a proof-text for or against any form of tongues, or the cessation thereof.
_____________________________
"To the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sun is really a sun; to the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sea is really a sea."
-G. K. Chesterton
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/24/2008 11:30:25 AM
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awaken
Posts: 90
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What other scripture is used in order to claim the manifestation of the Spirit(1 Cor.12) no longer exist? This one scripture is what I was taught...this one word (telios).... and I believed them..until God showed me the truth. Those that do not believe in the manifestation...what other scripture besides this do you claim?
Seems like if God was going to do away with something he would use more than one scripture....one word.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/24/2008 1:32:55 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 2341
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
Those that do not believe in the manifestation...what other scripture besides this do you claim?
It doesn't come from a specific verse, so much as an interpretation as to the purpose of Spiritual Gifts. Just as there are no longer apostles or prophets in the way there were in the early Church, because their purpose ceased to be needed, so it is with tongues. They served a specific purpose for a specific time.
How do those who advocate a modern manifestation of tongues explain nearly 2000 years without it being present in the Church?
_____________________________
"To the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sun is really a sun; to the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sea is really a sea."
-G. K. Chesterton
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/24/2008 4:11:03 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6721
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
Those that do not believe in the manifestation...what other scripture besides this do you claim?
It doesn't come from a specific verse, so much as an interpretation as to the purpose of Spiritual Gifts. Just as there are no longer apostles or prophets in the way there were in the early Church, because their purpose ceased to be needed, so it is with tongues. They served a specific purpose for a specific time.
How do those who advocate a modern manifestation of tongues explain nearly 2000 years without it being present in the Church?
Please do some simple research on glossalalia over the past 2000 years; it was very present and even attributed the that bastian of Baptist; Dwight Moody by his biographer; as well as many other famous men of God.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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