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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 10/17/2005 11:01:20 PM
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jengirlsx3
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There is a great book called "Don't Make Me Count to Three" where the author Ginger Plowman explains that where scripture instructs us to use the rod it also states to rebuke. Therefor the spanking should be used with teaching, talking and teaching them alternative behaviors. It takes a lot of time and effort, but it has worked for my 3 girls.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/9/2005 2:23:27 PM
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Room2Grow
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I agree with Tish- spanking should cease as a child matures out of it. I would lean more towards 12-13 as being the end of spanking, but each child is unique. I think it should be done in private- to be done publicly is just humiliating. Even if it has to be delayed, spanking should be private (for a child who is too young to understand- you are getting spanked when we get home- an alternative can/should be used at the time). I seem to be leaning towards pants up and using a paddle. My dad liked pants down and underwear on because he wanted to see that he was not hitting to hard (there should be no lasting markings after a spanking- if there are, that constitutes abuse, in my opinion- note, I am not talking about a little red that lasts for 15 minutes or so, I mean bruising/breaking skin). I like using a paddle because when dd tries to hit (23 months old) I can say that hands are for hugging and patting, and I am not contradicting my discipline technique.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/10/2005 8:03:57 PM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 1681
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: an ignoble beginning
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quote:
ORIGINAL: squirrelz_15
Ok, I'm taking this thread in a different direction.  This is aimed toward those who do spank. At what age do you think a child should no longer be spanked?Depends on the child and their maturity, but in general, by age 12 or 13 at the latest. I found with my own that I haven't spanked since age 11  Do you think their pants should be up or down, and do you use your hand or some other object? PANTS UP!!!!!!!! We use either hand or wooden spoon...but the spoon only when they are wearing thick jeansWill you ever spank them in public, in front of other family, or will you take them to a different private room?usually in private, sometimes, if the act needs it, in front of other parent and siblings, but never in public or in front of other family members. the point is to discipline, not shameThanks. I'm curious about this stuff as I look forward to when I do have children.
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Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/10/2005 8:10:35 PM
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SmileyTish
Posts: 184
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From: From the Edge of Beyond
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Mo2jules, I don't think that she was saying that. I think that she was saying that she wanted to just know the guidelines BEFORE she became a parent.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/10/2005 9:17:48 PM
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squirrelz_15
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NO!! I don't not look forward to spanking them. I don't want to have to spank them. I look forward to having children, but not to spanking them. Spanking will be used as a last resort as me and my FH have discussed. I'm honestly hoping it won't be necessary, but at some point it probably will be. While I wasn't abused, the way both of our families did spanking wasn't very good because of anger and some other things. I agree with the pants up. My parents didn't. I just wanted some other peoples thoughts on it. Thanks
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/11/2005 1:22:48 AM
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Keabird
Posts: 868
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I read the first page of this thread and this last one. :-)
Firstly, I would never pull a child's pants down to smack him or her ever. That would be degrading to the child, and I am not there to degrade, but to show them that disobedience brings painful consequences.
Secondly, I didn't "spank" as such. When I think of the word "spank" I get a picture of Mom or Dad putting a child over their knee and administering several smacks. Some people may do that, but I usually found that one well-placed smack on the bottom was quite sufficient.
Thirdly, I taught each of my children what the word "no" meant from the time they could walk and begin touching things. If I said "no" and they touched it, they immediately got a brief but succinct smack, either on the hand or bottom. NOT a "bash"! Just a hard enough smack to hurt. It only took 2 or 3 smacks, and they knew what "no" meant and obeyed it first time. After that, I rarely had to smack them at all. I was intrigued when No 2 got old enough to touch things and already knew what "no" meant and obeyed me the first time! She must have picked it up from seeing me tell her brother "no", as he was only 18 months older than her.
People often asked me if I ever smacked my children. The answer was "yes, but I hardly ever have to." That was because they knew what "no" meant, had clear boundaries, and knew that I expected obedience the first time. As older children, say around 8-10, sometimes they would test the boundaries and end up with a smack. By the time they were adolescents, I no longer used smacking as a consequence. I feel that smacking is best used when children are young, because at that age they are not really able to understand lengthy explanations, and for the sake of danger it is best that they know to obey you first time. But once they are near or in puberty, and beginning to feel like they are as old as you, then they can be reasoned with, and given choices of consequences if boundaries are breached. My 12 yr old hates losing the use of the computer. It is far more effective than a smack. Also, just sticking with the idea that kids think they are grown up when they enter puberty, we wouldn't smack another grown up. We would use some other method to let them know we are not accepting something unacceptable they have done.
Summarizing, I think single well-placed smacks with clear simple warnings beforehand ONCE between the ages of 1 and 4 are quite effective. Between 4 and 10, removal of toys, or withdrawal of treats can also work just as well for a child between the age of 4 and 10. But sometimes a well-placed smack at that age can also be quite effective. AFter that, clear and fair boundaries STILL with clear consequences that are relevant to the "crime". And above all, CONSISTENCY, CONSISTENCY, CONSISTENCY!
_____________________________
"The thief comes to kill, steal and destroy, but I have come that you may have life and have it abundantly." John 10:10
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/11/2005 10:22:52 AM
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Justifiedbyfaith
Posts: 112
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From: The Evergreen State / Washington State
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Regarding spanking, I find no scriptures about "Time Outs" or other "Philosophies of Man' approaches. See Colossians 2:8
God is clear in Proverbs that this is the proper application. Look what happened to children after Dr. Spock in the late 70s convinced the world not to spank.
_____________________________
Jesus warned, "Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many."
Matthew 24:11
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/11/2005 3:34:01 PM
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scmom2
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This is always such a touchy issue that can get people really upset.
I will tell you that I have a daughter that is age 12 and a son that is age 7. I stopped with the swattings when my daughter was 10 years old. My son will stop getting them when he is that age too.
I dislike using this method honestly, and it is only used in extreme circumstances. I pop them open handed on their buttocks with their pants up and put them in their rooms. I've never been angry when doing this....ever.
I think it is up to each parent how they chose to discipline their child, and they should not be looked down upon for whatever methods they us. I personally was spanked with anything and everything growing up and it didn't harm me on a psychological level.
My kids were never swatted until they were old enough to understand right from wrong. (about age 3-4)
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2005 2:12:23 AM
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SkillfullGourmet
Posts: 81
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I agree that all children view spanking differently and that many children benefit from it. But, just to give a different "testimony" here's my story (short version). I was spanked a lot growing up. My parents followed Dr. Dobson's teachings. Occasionally my mom spanked out of anger and frustration, but never something I would call abuse. Nevertheless, after a certain age (maybe 7?) I remember nothing but rage and humiliation as a result of being spanked. I was a pretty logical kid and I think my parents could have used more "reason" with me. I tend to think my rage and humiliation started at a much younger age, but I don't remember it, so I can't really say. I was a severely depressed 8 year old (yes, they exist....it can be very serious). They stopped spanking around 11. To this day I have a deep sense of shame and low self-esteem. Whenever I think of spanking, I think of the fear, loss of control, rage, and humiliation I used to feel. I think of all the reasons I am not a worthwhile person. My parents hugged me and told me they loved me regularly. They didn't do anything "wrong" per Dr. Dobson and his ilk. This is truly the effect it had on me -- I was a very sensitive child. My rage and frustration actually caused me to act out. I will never spank my child in that way. I do not have a problem with giving a baby/toddler a smack on the hand to communicate effectively. I can only go on my experience...I certainly see that other people have had positive experiences with spanking and I cannot deny that they are telling the truth.
I don't think I'm being perverse or outrageous to remind people that a number of adults struggle with masochism and sadism in their sexual lives. When the buttocks are paddled there is, in many people, a sensation that travels to the genitals. There is a confusing mix of pain and pleasure. Of course, no one ever goes back to tell their parents that they felt this and struggled with it, so it's not a well known effect of spanking an older child. But please consider it. Sorry if I offended anyone, just trying to present things to think about in this discussion.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2005 10:58:52 AM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 1681
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: an ignoble beginning
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Keabird
I read the first page of this thread and this last one. :-)
Firstly, I would never pull a child's pants down to smack him or her ever. That would be degrading to the child, and I am not there to degrade, but to show them that disobedience brings painful consequences.
Secondly, I didn't "spank" as such. When I think of the word "spank" I get a picture of Mom or Dad putting a child over their knee and administering several smacks. Some people may do that, but I usually found that one well-placed smack on the bottom was quite sufficient.
Thirdly, I taught each of my children what the word "no" meant from the time they could walk and begin touching things. If I said "no" and they touched it, they immediately got a brief but succinct smack, either on the hand or bottom. NOT a "bash"! Just a hard enough smack to hurt. It only took 2 or 3 smacks, and they knew what "no" meant and obeyed it first time. After that, I rarely had to smack them at all. I was intrigued when No 2 got old enough to touch things and already knew what "no" meant and obeyed me the first time! She must have picked it up from seeing me tell her brother "no", as he was only 18 months older than her.
People often asked me if I ever smacked my children. The answer was "yes, but I hardly ever have to." That was because they knew what "no" meant, had clear boundaries, and knew that I expected obedience the first time. As older children, say around 8-10, sometimes they would test the boundaries and end up with a smack. By the time they were adolescents, I no longer used smacking as a consequence. I feel that smacking is best used when children are young, because at that age they are not really able to understand lengthy explanations, and for the sake of danger it is best that they know to obey you first time. But once they are near or in puberty, and beginning to feel like they are as old as you, then they can be reasoned with, and given choices of consequences if boundaries are breached. My 12 yr old hates losing the use of the computer. It is far more effective than a smack. Also, just sticking with the idea that kids think they are grown up when they enter puberty, we wouldn't smack another grown up. We would use some other method to let them know we are not accepting something unacceptable they have done.
Summarizing, I think single well-placed smacks with clear simple warnings beforehand ONCE between the ages of 1 and 4 are quite effective. Between 4 and 10, removal of toys, or withdrawal of treats can also work just as well for a child between the age of 4 and 10. But sometimes a well-placed smack at that age can also be quite effective. AFter that, clear and fair boundaries STILL with clear consequences that are relevant to the "crime". And above all, CONSISTENCY, CONSISTENCY, CONSISTENCY!
EXACTLY!!!!!!
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2005 2:11:16 PM
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mom2jules
Posts: 51
Joined: 10/19/2005
From: Delaware
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: squirrelz_15
NO!! I don't not look forward to spanking them. I don't want to have to spank them. I look forward to having children, but not to spanking them. Spanking will be used as a last resort as me and my FH have discussed. I'm honestly hoping it won't be necessary, but at some point it probably will be. While I wasn't abused, the way both of our families did spanking wasn't very good because of anger and some other things. I agree with the pants up. My parents didn't. I just wanted some other peoples thoughts on it. Thanks
Sorry if I misunderstood you...its just your last sentence of the original post sounded that way. Its hard sometimes to realise what people are saying looking at just printed words. Take care :)
_____________________________
I can do all things through Christ , who strengthens me.
MERRY CHRISTMAS
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2005 3:04:10 PM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 1681
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: an ignoble beginning
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mom2jules
quote:
ORIGINAL: squirrelz_15
NO!! I don't not look forward to spanking them. I don't want to have to spank them. I look forward to having children, but not to spanking them. Spanking will be used as a last resort as me and my FH have discussed. I'm honestly hoping it won't be necessary, but at some point it probably will be. While I wasn't abused, the way both of our families did spanking wasn't very good because of anger and some other things. I agree with the pants up. My parents didn't. I just wanted some other peoples thoughts on it. Thanks
Sorry if I misunderstood you...its just your last sentence of the original post sounded that way. Its hard sometimes to realise what people are saying looking at just printed words. Take care :)
I think we all realized it was just a misunderstanding...and I am sorry I laughed....it just struck me as funny.
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/28/2005 9:18:42 AM
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SmileyTish
Posts: 184
Joined: 6/23/2005
From: From the Edge of Beyond
Status: offline
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Well, then, God bless you. However, if you had gotten that one child that didn't listen to anything else but a swat to his/her rearend then you would find that things are different. I'm not saying that it can't be done...I am saying that I have to use it for my children, because reasoning with them at their ages doesn't work. Positive reinforcement doesn't work,,,by the way I do practice positive reinforcement...if they continue doing what they are doing they are positively going to need reinforcements on their rears...LOL.
I'm not saying that it always has to happen. I just am against those who need to use it refusing to use it as a valid method of correction.
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I'm going crazy -- wanna come along?
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/28/2005 6:36:11 PM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 1681
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: an ignoble beginning
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MN_Fatherof4
First of all, I say to each his/her own... we all have to work out what works for us as parents.
I was spanked as a child by parents that loved and cared for me. I was never abused. I turned out ok I think. 
However, we have raised our 4 without spanking and used positive reinforcement and other forms of punishment such as loss of priviledges, and that has worked fabulously. We have a 9 year old, a 10 year old, a 15 year old and a 17 year old. None of which were disciplined by spanking. All four are honor students - the 17yo is a Senior in the running for Valedictorian, none of the 4 has been in the principals office ONCE, all are wonderful citizens and very respectful. So - to those who say you MUST spank, I have 4 kids for you that can prove that theory wrong - and I don't think 4 is an accident. NOT spanking works.
not spanking does work...for some kids. some kids, only spanking will work...however if you look at HOW you didn't spank...that is consistant with the ways MOST spankers do spank.....you TAUGHT, you PRAISED what was good, you CORRECTED what was wrong, and you PUNISHED what needed to be punished.
IT is possible to discipline without spanking, but spanking is a valid tool for parents IF used as a tool and not as the only way to train a child..there has to be teaching, consistance, etc...whether you choose to spank or not.
I have one child who spanking was a definate NOT thing to do....timeouts were the thing that got through to her...
Her younger brother saw timeouts as a reward (he loved time alone), and didn't care if privileges were removed...spankings were effective...one spanking and that would be the end of the situation.
His younger sister was a "frown child"...all you had to do to punish her was frown.
Her younger brother varies greatly...time outs work most of the time..but there have been times when spanking has been needed...he also respondes well to knowing we are displeased.
the baby is only 8 months...but she does not like it when we use a firm voice with her (when she has bitten me and I say "NO...do not bite") and stops....so maybe she'll be an "easy" child.
The key is LOVE, CONSISTANCY, KNOWING YOUR CHILD AND WHAT WORKS FOR THEM...,AND TEACHING TEACHING TEACHING...
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/28/2005 8:00:59 PM
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MN_Fatherof4
Posts: 5
Joined: 11/27/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SmileyTish
Well, then, God bless you. However, if you had gotten that one child that didn't listen to anything else but a swat to his/her rearend then you would find that things are different. I'm not saying that it can't be done...I am saying that I have to use it for my children, because reasoning with them at their ages doesn't work. Positive reinforcement doesn't work,,,by the way I do practice positive reinforcement...if they continue doing what they are doing they are positively going to need reinforcements on their rears...LOL.
I'm not saying that it always has to happen. I just am against those who need to use it refusing to use it as a valid method of correction.
LOL... good definition of positive reinforcement! I wasn't trying to suggest that spanking is wrong - I realize that it will differ from family to family. I believe that each parent has to find what works with their kids. Like I said before, I was spanked - quite bit cause I was ornery, lol - and I am fine. I had wonderful parents. But I was willfull and I don't know that NOT spanking would have worked for me. So forgive me if I made it sound like you were wrong... I just have heard from so many people in the past that there's no way around using corporal punishment to raise good kids... and I strongly disagree with that!
_____________________________
We owed a debt we couldn't pay...
He paid a debt he didn't owe.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/28/2005 9:45:08 PM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 1681
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: an ignoble beginning
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MN_Fatherof4
quote:
ORIGINAL: SmileyTish
Well, then, God bless you. However, if you had gotten that one child that didn't listen to anything else but a swat to his/her rearend then you would find that things are different. I'm not saying that it can't be done...I am saying that I have to use it for my children, because reasoning with them at their ages doesn't work. Positive reinforcement doesn't work,,,by the way I do practice positive reinforcement...if they continue doing what they are doing they are positively going to need reinforcements on their rears...LOL.
I'm not saying that it always has to happen. I just am against those who need to use it refusing to use it as a valid method of correction.
LOL... good definition of positive reinforcement! I wasn't trying to suggest that spanking is wrong - I realize that it will differ from family to family. I believe that each parent has to find what works with their kids. Like I said before, I was spanked - quite bit cause I was ornery, lol - and I am fine. I had wonderful parents. But I was willfull and I don't know that NOT spanking would have worked for me. So forgive me if I made it sound like you were wrong... I just have heard from so many people in the past that there's no way around using corporal punishment to raise good kids... and I strongly disagree with that!
I do too....and I've had to spank some of my five! It is NOT the only way...nor should it be....
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 11/29/2005 5:51:30 AM
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bzirk
Posts: 2982
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
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I think anytime we try to formulize discipline without any consideration to the individual, we might as well not have any wisdom. Anyone can raise a child if it's so simple as just to apply corporal punishment to the situation and things turn out fine. LOL!! Anyone that thinks it's that easy is a fool or maybe they don't have children.
I have not spanked all of my children. It wasn't necessary, and I'm not into doing things that are unnecessary if I can help it.
I said this way back in the thread, but my mother was never spanked. Yeah, she never had a spanking in her life. She was the most dependable and biddable child that my grandparents had out of nine. Her nature is one that tends toward self-control and wanting to please. If anything, she was too biddable at times.
My dad OTOH got a couple of spankings. | | | |
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