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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/7/2007 11:52:21 AM
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bzirk
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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Jaws,
I'll ditto what the others have said about convincing you. The best thing you can do is seek the Lord, and obviously that includes His word. The Lord has never failed to instruct me well in how to parent my children, and while I do believe spanking in the proper context is completely in line with scripture, I have not spanked all of my children -- simply because all of them didn't require that kind of discipline. I do have one who practically begged for spankings when she was younger, and she is still the most obstinate of all my children even though she has gained some wisdom about how to conduct herself. I prefer to think of that residual obstinance as determination that needs more tempering, and since she has a relationship with the Lord, I know she's in good hands. LOL!
BTW, I commend you for asking the questions you have been asking. Keep asking, and if you get a chance, it would help to read the pages of this thread.
I have question for you as well. Why did you think spanking was a mortal sin? What and/or who do you think faciliated that view of it?
Thanks.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/7/2007 2:59:14 PM
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peculiar_lady2
Posts: 11748
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From: Between Hither and Yon
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Daniel-j
You know, I never really thought about the spanking I received as a child as being abuse or humiliation, but now that it's mentioned, that may be the reason I oppose spanking so much...because it was humiliating and done out of anger or frustration (usually with a raised voice and a stern "go wait for me in your room!"). So Iguess I'd be curious to see what others feel about my decision to NOT spank because of my experiences (keep in mind that I did go through both physical and sexual abuse as a child and I would most likely have a hard time separating those feelings of abuse with true spanking out of "love" or in the name of "discipline"). Have any of you been abused and then found peace with spanking with your own children? And how have you dealt with the issue? (sorry if these questions have been raised in the previous pages)
what we described earlier with taking the emotion and reactionary factor out of spanking would actually be the ONLY way I would recommend anyone to spank, especially someone that has been abused. You can draw very clear lines...write it all out on paper so that you have already thought out consequences and the child already knows those consequences. Then a spanking is nothing more then just that...a spanking. It does not turn into a beating or an abuse if you do not allow it to do so. If however you can not handle doing that without it turning into abuse then by all means, DO NOT SPANK.
as far as the example with the two year old (or almost two year old)...I can not imagine doing that to a child!!! That to me would be one of those things of teaching a child something by your example and not expecting them to understand beyond their own ability. Obviously that child was not sympathetic to what the adult wanted because they just were not old enough to even comprehend it yet...and for that lack of comprehension they were beaten!!!!!!! How sad!!!!!!!!! That is NOT spanking!!!!!!!!
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Mom to Jake, Hannah, Emma, and Jack
Baby Boy due June 25, 2008
"God has a plan for your life...and so does everybody else." ~said by Doinkdom
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/7/2007 3:20:55 PM
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bzirk
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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The scenario HC described does sound like abuse and sounds like someone who is using a formula to discipline instead of having wisdom. Anyone who has been a parent for a decent length of time knows that formulas are not the answer.
Anyone who thinks spanking in and of itself is sufficient to discipline is out in left field. No form of discipline is sufficient. It's the wisdom of the person possessing that tool of discipline that makes the difference. Thankfully, the Lord gaves us minds with which to seek Him and His wisdom.
For those who don't want to reread this thread, I'll give a thumbnail of my experience. When I was a child, I was spanked by two parents who had different views about spanking. One parent was calm and controlled and never lost sight of the point of the spanking, and I got a healthy amount of spankings from this parent. My other parent, who rarely spanked, would fly off the handle and get mad at me, and spank and chase me around the house. They were definitely in a passive/aggressive cycle, which is a cycle I see all too often in parents, because they don't feel comfortable exerting authority. This is the message they are barraged with from the world, so they don't exert authority until things get really bad and they are at their wit's end. This is NOT the way to do any kind of discipline -- spanking, time out or anything else. Kids aren't stupid. They know when something is done purely as an emotional response and not to really address behavior.
Can you guess which parent got me to behave consistently? Can you guess which parent was spanked as a child themselves and which one was not?
< Message edited by bzirk -- 3/7/2007 3:36:18 PM >
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Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/7/2007 3:34:09 PM
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brotherbrian
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Very few parents of older teens or grown kids look back and wish they'd spanked the kids a lot less often.
"He that spareth the rod hateth his son."
I've worked in the public for over thirty years, and I can usually tell the spanker's kids from the non-spanker's kids in the first two minutes.
The spanker's children mind.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/7/2007 4:43:59 PM
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HenriettasCat
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The only situation where I can think that I might use spanking is if my child persists in doing something which might be a danger to themselves or another and it was the only way of getting through. In that circumstance even my own principles would go out of the window because of the need for swift response. I do think spanking can have that element in those circumstances.
The only other time I might consider spanking would be if they had done something so terrible that they needed the shock of mum doing something completely different to normal to reflect how bad the crime was - but I can't think what that might be at the moment.
On the whole I don't consider people who only spank thier kids once or twice in their lives to be 'spankers'. Spankers IMO are those who use it as a regular form of punishment.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/7/2007 4:58:38 PM
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karlie
Posts: 16061
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From: Central California
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quote:
On the whole I don't consider people who only spank thier kids once or twice in their lives to be 'spankers'. Spankers IMO are those who use it as a regular form of punishment.
My experience with spanking was that when it was done properly and consistently, it didn't need to be used often. Them knowing it could(and would) happen when necessary seemed to be enough to keep them on the straight and narrow, for the most part. Then they'd have to test the limits and find out once again that it's still going to happen if they chose to be defiant. It happened rarely with our kids, mainly because they knew it would. Often weeks and even months would go by with no spanking even necessary, even the hard-headed one!
And for us, spanking was only used for direct acts of disobedience and open defiance...not for every little childhood offense or problem that occurred. Only when they knew better and chose to be disobedient or defiant anyway. And it was never without full a reminder/warning. They well knew that if they chose that action, they chose the consequences...no surprises.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/7/2007 5:19:52 PM
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jawsmetroid
Posts: 399
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From: Shorts all year, MN
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quote:
Why did you think spanking was a mortal sin? What and/or who do you think faciliated that view of it?
Well, part of it would be the 'spankings' I got as a kid- they were responses to my behavior, never really a discipline. But leaving that totally out of it, I just love kids so much that I would never dream of hurting them. Now, though, I kind of understand that pain is a bit necessary for discipline, whether it be emotional or physical.
And, by the way guys- when I say convince, I mean it to say this: give me your best argument summed up in one post so I can think about it. Obviously no one's going to convince me unless I either want to be convinced or am open to it, and I'm not asking you to try and get me to totally side with you. I'm asking you to give me your best argument. And by the way, I really, honestly, literally don't have time to read through 15 pages of stuff in one sitting.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/7/2007 8:12:41 PM
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W.O.F.
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As someone who has and still does use spankings for certain things IF they are effective for that child...I am not going to convince anyone to spank.
I am going to convince them to discipline their children.....which means to TEACH, TRAIN, ENCOURAGE, and when necessary, PUNISH in a way that gets the picture across...but you cannot punish without teaching first....you cannot punish without training first....and you must always catch your kids being good and let them know about it twice as often as you catch them at being 'naughty'.
Spankings are just ONE tool in the BIG toolbox we parents have when raising our children....we don't have to use it....but we do have to use the toolbox and train our children....
consistant discipline that addresses each child where they are and in a way that gets it across you mean business is what will work...
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an IMPORTANT matter without settling it
than to settle it without debating it"
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/8/2007 12:39:48 PM
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karlie
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From: Central California
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quote:
I'm asking you to give me your best argument.
I honestly don't think that's even close to the right way to go about figuring out what method of discipline to use. And for any parent to try to convince you to spank, or not to spank, wouldn't even be a wise thing to do, in my opinion. Even a parent themselves can't make solid decisions on discipline until they have their kids and get to know their personalities and how they tick. You can have ideas and plans, but kids are not designed from a cookie cutter. One size does not fit all. Even kids within the same family have to be handled differently according to their personalities and emotional states.
Now one knows the future personalities of your kids, and no one really knows your level of self control. I personally would never try to convince any parent that spanking is right for their child, and most especially not when I didn't know the parent or what child they are disciplining. It's one thing to think "that child needs a good spanking". It's another to advise someone you know nothing about to take that method and run with it. Some parents should never lay a hand on a child because they have no self-control, or they have anger issues, or both. And some children are just too fragile to handle spankings, either emotionally or physically, and some just don't require that.
Disciplining your children is way too serious of a choice to just ask someone to "give you their best argument" about. It is not something to be debated and argued, but to seek true wisdom on from God. I would never rely on other's opinions and arguments or convincing to decide what is best for my child and their well-being. That is for me and their father to decide together and with much, much prayer. Seek God in prayer, and get to know your children when they arrive in this world. That's the most effective way of choosing a discipline method that best suits your own individual child.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/8/2007 1:08:04 PM
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lilyofthefield
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Spanking was rarely used in my house while growing up, but I still knew it was a possible consequence if I went too far. I think I would do the same with my kids. It would be a rare consequence for serious infractions. I do think a swat is sometimes necessary for little ones too young to reason with.
My dad told me that when I was very little (not even 2 yet - I don't remember it at all) he caught me trying to stick a finger in an electrical outlet! It scared him to death and he (rightly I believe) wanted me to be afraid to do such a thing again - so he took me to serveral outlets around the house and gave my hand a good smack. He still feels terrible to this day for "hurting my feelings", but it worked and I have suffered no ill effects. 
On a humorous note: My step-mom had a wooden spoon that my younger siblings nicknamed "Momma's Weapon". She didn't spank often either (she never spanked me - but I was the good one  ). Anyway, when she did, it was often a swat or two with her "weapon". Well, one day she had just had enough and was at the end of her rope. She was threatening my little brother with the spoon and smacked it against the counter to make her point when, with a loud crack, it busted into pieces, the head flying across the room. Well, after a shocked silence, everyone started cracking up and my siblings started dancing and singing, "Yay! Momma broke her weapon!" She said that's what she got for losing her temper.
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A boy is Truth with dirt on its face, Beauty with a cut on its finger, Wisdom with bubble gum in its hair and the Hope of the future with a frog in its pocket. - Alan Beck
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/8/2007 1:15:25 PM
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MrsTracy72
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I will swat my little one if necessary. I think that when they are able communicate with you using words, spankings are unnecessary though. My kids older don't always listen to me, but I have found other ways to take care of their undesirable behavior.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/8/2007 1:34:41 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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quote:
I had a friend who had a strong willed toddler. She was told to spank until the child 'repented' and said sorry. If the child said 'no' it meant another spanking. Sometimes these battles would go on for ages and the child would get so tired of crying she would fall asleep (she was under 2 years of age).
My BIL was telling me about a time when he was 3 or 4 that he got caught breaking something in the living room, and his father saw the whole thing happen. When FIL went to spank him, he asked him if he had broken the item to which my BIL responded "no". My FIL spanked him again everytime he said no, which apparently went on for the better part of an hour  
That is a time when I do feel like "spanking" was abused, but I'm not anti-spanking at all. My parentes had a very sytematic approach to spanking. We knew the behaviors that waranted spanking, and we also knew how many spanks were going to be received for each offense. The typical number of spanks was 3 for offenses such as lying, potty mouths, sassiness, etc... If you hit a sibiling, or lashed out at mom and dad it could get you as many as 5 spanks, but that was the most anyone ever got at one time.
I'm guessing that will probably be how we approach spanking once our kids get to that age, because DH is very adamently against his fathers approach.
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"No firebrands, or deadly arrows just a Springfield XD .40 with Tritium sights" Patriotism
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/8/2007 2:02:00 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2690
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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quote:
ORIGINAL: karlie
Disciplining your children is way too serious of a choice to just ask someone to "give you their best argument" about. It is not something to be debated and argued, but to seek true wisdom on from God.
Exactly, and well said.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2007 6:21:33 PM
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howardruss
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No spanking=ADD
Spanking= no ADD
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2007 7:06:32 PM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 1846
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From: an ignoble beginning
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quote:
ORIGINAL: howardruss
No spanking=ADD
Spanking= no ADD
that is a generalization that is completely unfounded..and in fact can be proven false on more counts than it can be counted correct.
I have friends who don't spank ever..and none of their children are ADD..and I have friends who do spank when necessary and they have a child who is ADD.
By that formula, my oldest child should have ADD..and she doesn't. By that formula, my youngest neice shouldn't have ADD and she does.
go figure.
I am not against spanking, and in fact, when it is appropriate, do spank...but you cannot equate ADD with either spanking or not spanking.
_____________________________
"It is better to debate
an IMPORTANT matter without settling it
than to settle it without debating it"
~Anonymous~
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2007 8:09:40 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7254
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From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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quote:
ORIGINAL: howardruss
No spanking=ADD
Spanking= no ADD
Oh my, if only it were that simple.
_____________________________
"A tax supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state."
-- Isabel Patterson
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2007 9:09:31 PM
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howardruss
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I know it is not that simple. What I am saying honestly is that most ADD can be attributed to permissive self esteem teaching that little johnny is perfect and don't say no to him and never spank him. Add has also been linked to diet as well as pc parenting. The US an Canada are the only countries in the world with ADD. This is not normal. How come we never had ADD until 25 yrs ago? We have a society so ready to believe pyschiatrists over the Bible that we will fall for any new pschobabble theory. Kids used to be too tired to cut up and were discipled properly. With kids not allowed to play at recess, they have too much pent up energy to sit still. Thousands of parents have thrown away the meds, changed diet and had perfect kids.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2007 10:54:12 PM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 1846
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: an ignoble beginning
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quote:
ORIGINAL: howardruss
I know it is not that simple. What I am saying honestly is that most ADD can be attributed to permissive self esteem teaching that little johnny is perfect and don't say no to him and never spank him. Add has also been linked to diet as well as pc parenting. The US an Canada are the only countries in the world with ADD. This is not normal. How come we never had ADD until 25 yrs ago? We have a society so ready to believe pyschiatrists over the Bible that we will fall for any new pschobabble theory. Kids used to be too tired to cut up and were discipled properly. With kids not allowed to play at recess, they have too much pent up energy to sit still. Thousands of parents have thrown away the meds, changed diet and had perfect kids.
No...the US and Canada are the only countries who blame all misbehaviour on ADD...it does exist in other countries....but not at the same rate....course other countries don't believe in schizophrenia or PPD either....
TRUE ADD and ADHD is not a psychological disorder (so your reference to 'psychobabble' has literally NO relevance) but is due to a chemical imbalance in the brain that can be tested for.
just like diabetes.....or any other chemical malfunction.
I do believe people like to blame a lot of things on ADD that don't belong at its feet.....but then a lot of people like to blame psychology for a lot of things that don't belong there either.
and I have friends in 40 and 50's who are ADD...they weren't diagnosed as kids and struggled and struggled until they were finally diagnosed..and then all the lights came on and they were able to learn, etc.
When Thomas Edison was a child, according to teachers, etc dyslexia didn't exist either...he was branded as retarded and unteachable. Amazing how much difference a few years can make in understanding things isn't it?
_____________________________
"It is better to debate
an IMPORTANT matter without settling it
than to settle it without debating it"
~Anonymous~
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/13/2007 2:31:47 AM
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peculiar_lady2
Posts: 11748
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From: Between Hither and Yon
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quote:
How come we never had ADD until 25 yrs ago?
considering I am married to a man that has ADD and is 36 years old I don't get your time line. It is a relatively new diagnosis but ADD itself has been around for a very long time
quote:
With kids not allowed to play at recess, they have too much pent up energy to sit still.
ADD affects more then just "pent up energy" that needs to be expelled. It affects your concentration too...that has nothing to do with pent up energy. It is a chemical imbalance that affects much more then just the physical though...my husband fights every day to control himself and I think does rather well at times, and yet other times does not do so well. Diet does not affect (good or bad) how my husband acts because of ADD...I know it does with some, but not him.
_____________________________
Proud Army Wife
Mom to Jake, Hannah, Emma, and Jack
Baby Boy due June 25, 2008
"God has a plan for your life...and so does everybody else." ~said by Doinkdom
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/13/2007 2:43:25 AM
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cynthia
Posts: 7254
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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ATTENTION: MODERATOR'S NOTE: ATTENTION
This thread is about spanking, but it is off topic to discuss any relationship between spanking and ADD/ADHD. If you would like to discuss mental health issues such as ADD/ADHD, please go Mental Health Encouragement One Stop Thread. There will be no further discussion of ADD/ADHD in this thread.
Please do not reply to or discuss this action within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns. Please allow time for a response during regular business hours.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
Posts or pm’s which disregard the words in red will be removed without warning and the poster may also be banned.
Sincerely,
Cynthia
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Yuck. 
), not a huge "YOU MUST REPENT" thing. I don't think they even understand repentence at that age. 
