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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/18/2009 2:36:52 PM
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W.O.F.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: suziblues2000
"Maybe we are supposed to take the stick, wave it over the child, and say "Abracadabra".
MAYBE this 'rod' mentioned in the Bible was meant to 'guide'. as the shepards used it for their sheep....
Another words: they did NOT beat or HIT their sheep with their 'rod', they gently and lovingly 'guided' them with the rod.
Yes....lovingly guided them by SMACKING them with it.......
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/19/2009 12:12:26 AM
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delete123
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I spank my son, but it seems to prove ineffective. He actually hates being put in the corner. So sometimes will ask what he decides and he most times will take spanking over time out in the corner.
However either disciplines doesn't seem to correct his behavior at times.
So what do I do? Use a belt or wooden spoon? (that was suggested by someone I know, but that seems drastic.)
I know if he displays a tantrum in the store I will walk away and then he cries and will follow me, crying: No momma No! I do not react, but encourage him to move along.
But what about the other times?
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/19/2009 12:51:40 AM
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creationtalk
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
MAYBE this 'rod' mentioned in the Bible was meant to 'guide'. as the shepards used it for their sheep....
Another words: they did NOT beat or HIT their sheep with their 'rod', they gently and lovingly 'guided' them with the rod.
Not necessarily. Ever wonder why photos of young sheep and cow herders show the shepherd carrying a thin stick? If you go to Africa or the Middle East, you will see it in live action. They do indeed hit the animals when necessary. And sometimes it is necessary. How do you get a herd of goats out of someone else's field of crops? Sweetly reason with each one? I don't think so.  There are times for gentle guidance and there are times for firm discipline.
And sometimes, if the sheep or lamb is consistently wayward the shepherd will break its leg with the rod, then carry the sheep with him everywhere around his neck. After this, the sheep would no longer wander--putting itself in danger of either being eaten by wolves or getting "cast down" where it would die if not pulled back onto its feet.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/19/2009 4:48:39 PM
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W.O.F.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: delete123
I spank my son, but it seems to prove ineffective. He actually hates being put in the corner. So sometimes will ask what he decides and he most times will take spanking over time out in the corner.
However either disciplines doesn't seem to correct his behavior at times.
So what do I do? Use a belt or wooden spoon? (that was suggested by someone I know, but that seems drastic.)
I know if he displays a tantrum in the store I will walk away and then he cries and will follow me, crying: No momma No! I do not react, but encourage him to move along.
But what about the other times?
The key to correcting behaviour is not to rely solely on punishment...but also on reward. Does he get "rewarded" by verbal encouragement or unexpected surprises for being good sometimes (unexpected surprised are different than bribes in that they are not offered as a hope of good behaviour, but instead randomly as a reward for good behaviour. The child never knows WHEN or IF they will get it...just that sometimes good behaviour has a reward).
I have never done the "walk away from the child" while in a store. I do that at home...but in the store, I remove myself and the child from the situation....even if it is just to go to the restroom and let child chill. The biggest thing is to do what you can to avoid tantrums: Never go out when child is excessively tired, hungry or if the time out will overlap normal nap-times. NEVER give in to whining for toys etc. and clearly explain purpose of trip "we are NOT going to be buying "xyz" we are here to buy "milk, etc"' and then stick to that.
Half of discipline is being consistent in training. No matter what you do as consequences, they will have very little effect if you don't first train.
Punishment cannot correct behaviour by itself. Even with very young children (2 or 3) it is necessary to explain WHY something is wrong and that they are not to do that again....just keep it simple. Example: Kid bites you on the leg because they are mad. "NO...we do not bite people when we are mad. It hurts and we DO NOT do that." you do this the first 2 times he/she bites. You also find ways to incorporate why we don't bite people into conversations when they aren't biting....like when reading a book,etc. Third time they bite, You repeat the conversation and say..."next time you bite, I will have to (insert mode of punishment here)." Next time...follow through with punishment, while repeating the why's.
NO form of punishment or reward is going to get instant or even quick results. That is why it is called child training.....
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/19/2009 8:57:49 PM
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delete123
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W.O.F.~
Thank you so much for answering. Oh yeah he gets rewards, both verbal or a surprise. He is 3 y/o and an only child.
I think maybe that is it, sometimes I lack in the explaining area. I will work on that.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/20/2009 10:10:24 PM
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W.O.F.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: delete123
W.O.F.~
Thank you so much for answering. Oh yeah he gets rewards, both verbal or a surprise. He is 3 y/o and an only child.
I think maybe that is it, sometimes I lack in the explaining area. I will work on that.
One thing to keep in mind is that, while not acceptable behaviour, temper tantrums are actually part of the development process, and are often due to their mental ability and verbal inability....
One thing we did with ours (and still do as we have one who just turned 4) is to explain what we expect before we go in..."honey..I want you to be on your best behaviour...no running, screaming, etc. while we are in the store. I'll try to get what I need done as quickly as possible, but I need your help."
This gives them the guidelines (keep it simple!) and also gives them some control (I need your help).....
but again...a lot of time temper tantrums are simply brought on by being too tired, hungry or thirsty.....and as moms (or dads)...we can head those triggers off if we take the time to think about it (which I am guilty of NOT doing way too often!)
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/24/2009 12:57:59 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 1429
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quote:
ORIGINAL: delete123
I spank my son, but it seems to prove ineffective. He actually hates being put in the corner. So sometimes will ask what he decides and he most times will take spanking over time out in the corner.
However either disciplines doesn't seem to correct his behavior at times.
So what do I do? Use a belt or wooden spoon? (that was suggested by someone I know, but that seems drastic.)
I know if he displays a tantrum in the store I will walk away and then he cries and will follow me, crying: No momma No! I do not react, but encourage him to move along.
But what about the other times?
I'm not sure how old your son is, but when mine were about 3-4 and they did something like that in public, I left the public place as quickly as I could but in the meantime I was speaking to them about getting a spanking. Basically, I made sure they didn't forget it while we were going home or some place private where I could spank them. Bottom line is that I was consistent: They did something like that, they were getting a spanking and they knew it. Thankfully, I didn't have to do that too many times. With one of my children, I never had to do it.
As for what I used, it was a very thin paddle. It was labeled "The Motivator." I started to throw that thing away one day and my older kids, who are now 16, 18, and 20 said, "Nooooo! You have to save it, Mom!" Then they started laughing and said they would not let me ever throw it away, and one of them wanted it to take with them when they moved away. LOL!
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bZirk
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/25/2009 7:57:11 PM
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herestoresmysoul
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I dont think that hitting/spanking children helps at all. I have three great kids in their 20's and I rarely hit/spanked them, and if I had kids now I woudnt do it at all. I occasionally gave then a little smack with my hand on their bottom and that was all. I could NEVER EVER use a stick, cane or anything similar to hit a child and the whole thought makes my blood run cold.
Programmes like supernanny show that it isnt necessary, and that there are far more effective wys of disciplining children.
My husband is Australian. his mum (not his dad please note) used to hit him with a belt. He was a very sensitive child and it has affected him negatively. he remembers very clearly specific incidences when this happened and he is 52 now!. He may have obeyed but it was out of fear of being beaten and not becuase he was learning to be responsible. If a child is only obeying becuase he is in fear what use is that? It teaches nothing.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/25/2009 9:22:26 PM
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W.O.F.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul
I dont think that hitting/spanking children helps at all. I have three great kids in their 20's and I rarely hit/spanked them, and if I had kids now I woudnt do it at all. I occasionally gave then a little smack with my hand on their bottom and that was all. I could NEVER EVER use a stick, cane or anything similar to hit a child and the whole thought makes my blood run cold.
Programmes like supernanny show that it isnt necessary, and that there are far more effective wys of disciplining children.
My husband is Australian. his mum (not his dad please note) used to hit him with a belt. He was a very sensitive child and it has affected him negatively. he remembers very clearly specific incidences when this happened and he is 52 now!. He may have obeyed but it was out of fear of being beaten and not becuase he was learning to be responsible. If a child is only obeying becuase he is in fear what use is that? It teaches nothing.
When spanking is used properly...it is a rare thing. It only comes after there is training and teaching and training and more teaching. It is not a "obey or else" situation....it is a "you know what is right. You have been taught. You have been given opportunities to correct. Next time it will be this consequence."
I have 5 children...and they are all different. Some have been spanked more than others....others have been spanked less than 5 times in their lives. Some time-outs were emotionally damaging to them or were, in the case of my oldest son, a reward.
You have to fit the consequences to the child...but NO consequence will ever work if you do not FIRST train and teach.
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/25/2009 11:52:01 PM
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chrisovery
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the bible states in proverbs that if we love our children we will spank them and save their souls from hell. i do not believe that god intended this to be the only way to discipline our children though.
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It is utterly impossible to govern a nation with out the Lord Jesus Christ and the bible.
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RE: To Spank - 3/26/2009 12:56:11 AM
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DoctorJohn
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The more you spank your kid the more he will do bad.. That's my opinion about this, The best way is to teach him is a good way not spank him,
Doctor John
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RE: To Spank - 3/26/2009 6:21:44 AM
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W.O.F.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DoctorJohn
The more you spank your kid the more he will do bad.. That's my opinion about this, The best way is to teach him is a good way not spank him,
Doctor John
Again....ANY form of punishment will NOT work if one doesn't correct the child and teach them.
DO you know why supernanny's methods of NOT spanking work?
1)correction and instruction
2) CONSISTENCY
3)the form of punishment chosen is one that is "painful" but not damaging to the child.
I have, again, 5 kids. Of those 5 kids, not all have been spanked. You have to find the form of punishment that works with each child...it is NOT a one size fits all kind of thing.
My oldest son, again, LOVED to be in time out. He is a very introverted, introspective, quiet boy, even now at 15, and time outs were a reward to him. He would say "If I do this, I can have a time out, yes?" and then he'd repeat the behaviour that got him put there. One swat on the behind...and we'd never see that behaviour again.
Some of my kids, we have had to use a combination of punishments, when necessary, based upon what they did wrong, and HOW they went about doing it.
You cannot dismiss spanking as an appropriate means of punishment, WHEN IT IS USED CORRECTLY (which is as a rare, forewarned, not in anger, for predetermined actions that the child understands will result in spanking, event). Too many parents use it as a last resort and it is random and done in anger and the child never knows when or if they will get spanked, but then the same can be said of time outs or privilege removal as well.
There are many many tools in the "box of disciplinary items" we are given as parents....the punishment part of the tool box is the smallest, but even then spanking is NOT the ONLY one there...nor should it be ignored simply because it is not politically correct or because so many have misused it and have gotten poor results with it.
A study by Harvard University a few years ago surprised the doctors who ran the study. They found that families that spanked were LESS likely to verbally abuse, or shout at their children, and the children actually had better moral compasses when AWAY from their parents....they were more likely to follow the rules set out by their parents, even when in an environment in which there was not likely to be any repercussions for NOT following those rules. Keep in mind, these were parents who chose spanking as a means of punishment.....not as discipline. They recognized that discipline is the WHOLE package...teaching, correcting, reminding, teaching and then punishing if needed.
You can't just go around spanking and expect results....but then you can't just go around removing privileges or time-outing and expect results either. That is rather like handing a child an Algebra textbook and a pencil and paper and saying "here...do this math."
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/26/2009 10:02:22 AM
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herestoresmysoul
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chrisovery
the bible states in proverbs that if we love our children we will spank them and save their souls from hell. i do not believe that god intended this to be the only way to discipline our children though.
Two of my kids are on fire for God, There are not following Him becuase they were hit/spanked.They are not going to hell.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 4/1/2009 4:19:53 PM
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bzirk
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That's a case study of two. Not enough to sway me to think spanking is always bad.
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bZirk
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 4/13/2009 11:55:47 AM
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churchdrummer342
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Yes, I believe in spanking, when it is appropriate. I was raised in a home, in which we were spanked. There are a few things that are automatic. If my child were to hit me, or anyone else, they will get a spank. If they do something dangerous (like run out in the road), they will more than likely get a spank. If they are utterly defiant, they will likely get a spank. Like everything else, it must be done in moderation, and if it not effective, then spanking should not be used. The whole reason why I would spank, is that I want the child to learn from the discipline. Spanking a child is not fun, but it is the job of the parent to make sure that the child is being corrected when it is necessary. In public, I see way too many children throw tantrums, only to have the parent cave in. I was spanked at 16. I would stop spanking at around 8 or 9. I want the child to learn from the spankings/discipline. I would prefer to use natural consequences (if you throw this toy, you will lose it for a day), then to spank, but I will when it is necessary. My parents would use additional chores, and take away priviledges as well. I would try different things, as every child is different.
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RE: To Spank - 4/27/2009 10:26:17 AM
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deb77
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W.O.F. Your post is an excellent summary of how to train children and I agree with you one hundred percent.
I came from an authoritarian home where spankings were common and found myself being too permissive. So I began using the same techniques under the pressure of being a "good" parent. About the time my kids were in their teens, I realized I needed to exert authority (as opposed to reacting) and training became more of a focus with my younger ones. I began to acquire all kinds of methods to train and only used spanking when the child became defiant. I'll never forget learning that childish irresponsibility is just a sign of needing more training. Dr. Dobson of Focus On the Family taught that defiance should be dealt with in a "painful" manner, using spanking for the younger ones and as they grew up, to use other painful consequences. He is totally against child abuse and made the difference very clear. You are to speak to the child, if they understand then administer the swat. Harm occurs when they are abused, but pain is a teaching tool that a swat or two on the behind can provide.
My new husband (father to eleven) has shown me a more gracious way to parent all the while continuing to use time outs, losses, and even spanking. The child is pleasantly drilled in the "what if" game when there is no confrontation, to see if the child understands the consequences of his actions. We will recount various scenario's that the child finds himself in, both good and bad. If he understands and tells us in his own words that if he (does this) then he will (get that), that's when we follow through with that action (both carrot and stick). The child has shown understanding, and has agreed to the reward or consequence recited in the game. But remember, children are not logical until their tween years, so it is just fact at this point and if you need to change a consequence, that is acceptable if the child understands.
I find that I am always learning more about how to be a better parent. My eldest is 29, my youngest is 5. Parenting is a journey, not a "to do" list to get over with.
_____________________________
Love is patient, love is kind... It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. 1 Co. 13:4-8
http://callmecrazy-momofsixteen.blogspot.com/
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RE: To Spank - 4/27/2009 1:05:02 PM
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W.O.F.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deb77
Parenting is a journey, not a "to do" list to get over with.
AMEN!!!!!!
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2009 3:00:55 PM
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Sideways
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
That's a case study of two. Not enough to sway me to think spanking is always bad.
Certainly it's not always bad, but it's not always needed, either. We started off with swatting, but my eldest is two and we've moved away from it. There are other ways that work well for us, and I'd only use spanking if it was the only thing that worked.
I still have a lot to learn as a parent. I'm still such a newbie, but I don't trust my own violent nature, and my husband can barely bring himself to do more then a very light swat. So... we've learned other methods of teaching my son, and so far, so good.
But that's just us and our experiences. Other families will certainly vary.
_____________________________
Row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream. If you see a crocodile, don't forget to scream.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 5/3/2009 7:12:22 PM
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Sideways
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The author is Roy Lessin.
I agree that for a serious offense a serious response is often needed, and I'll admit I haven't read the whole thing, but this guy seems to go to far. For example, he also says that a spanking must be on the bare bottom to maximize pain, as jeans or a diaper would only dull the pain.
But I like the point you make that once a child truely understands the seriousness of their offense, that can help bring them to repentance. I don't believe pain from a spanking is the only way to bring about that understanding, but I appreciate the example you gave.
_____________________________
Row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream. If you see a crocodile, don't forget to scream.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 5/4/2009 2:41:40 PM
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W.O.F.
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I don't think spanking on a bare bottom is needed, unless the bottom happens to be bare when the offense for spanking happens...but you have to be so careful not to HARM a bare bottom....it really is just unnecessary.
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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My parents realized I needed a good spanking after I did it and pulled her shoulder out of joint. 
And I never did it again. It wasn't until after the spanking that I realized what an awful thing I'd done and how my disobedience had actually caused someone else serious pain. *Then* I was brokenhearted.
