RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread

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Nate79 -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (9/20/2009 9:19:55 PM)
I fully support spanking. My parents explained why I was receiving the discipline and I never felt abused. In my home, I only administer spanking for defiance, not for simple disobedience.

manda59 -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (9/21/2009 9:42:53 AM)
I think that after their child is about 4 or 5, even a spanking parent shouldn't need to spank, that there are far better and more effective alternatives (which also are far less likely to lead to resentment and self-hatred for the child).

W.O.F. -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (9/21/2009 12:17:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bolt. It is possible to raise many children through very careful methods that do not involve corporal punishment. As a parent that knows those methods, it is important for me to at least try teaching methods other than physical pain as a deterrent. If a parent can't manage that, or if it is clearly not working, and if they have no one to teach them -- then yes, it is kinder to a child to spank them than to let them become increasingly undisciplined at the core. That's what previous generations did, and rightly so, because they didn't have the understanding (or the luxury) of working with more humane (but effective) methods. Actually...previous generations DID use other methods of discipline...my grandmother talks about being sat in the corner (naughty chair) and she is 95! Previous generations used MOST of the same punishments we do....at about the same rates. However, I think there was more emphasis put on the training part of discipline...so when there was disobedience, it was more often than not defiance and therefore got spanked. My grandmother raised 9 children..and yes, they were spanked, but very seldom...but they were well trained. NO matter what punishment you choose (and regardless of the positive enforcements you use, at some point punishment/negative consequences WILL probably be necessary), if you DO NOT TRAIN BEFORE, AFTER, and DURING the process....it will be pointless. No amount of praising for right behaviour, and no amount of punishment will work if the child is not TAUGHT what is right and wrong and expected. quote: ORIGINAL: manda59 I think that after their child is about 4 or 5, even a spanking parent shouldn't need to spank, that there are far better and more effective alternatives (which also are far less likely to lead to resentment and self-hatred for the child). To be honest, if you train a child, even if you only use spanking, you don't have to administer spankings much after age 5. Spanking after age 5 depends on the child.....again...you have to find the tool that works best for your child, and does not HARM them.... But I have found with my 5 kids...usually after age 5, if I have done my job right, they don't need to be spanked much.... and spankings only work IF they are used as ONE tool in the process of discipling your child.... People too often equate discipline with punishment...but discipline is three-fold:TRAINING (teaching, exhibiting, reminding), PRAISE/REWARD (positive comments for good behaviour, sometimes a "tangible" reward), PUNISHMENT (for acts of deliberate disobedience).

3cappuccinosmom -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (9/21/2009 1:05:18 PM)
My kids get only swats as toddlers. And they don't get true spanks that often. However, there have been rare and short periods of time where one child might get spanked several days in a row. And that has happened after age 6 too. The usual reason for this is the child will not control his behavior (either intentionally or unintentionally hurting his siblings with a certain behavior, or reacting to gentle correction with anger or screaming towards parents), after warnings and other forms of discipline. This doesn't happen often (my kids are generally great kids[:)]), but I have no problem with spanking after age 5 if the situation warrents it. For my kids, knowing that the punishment for certain behaviors will be swift, severe, and consistently applied means that those behaviors last a shorter time and the intervals between their slipups are much longer than if I use something else. The last spanking I ever got, I was 9 years old. I totally deserved it, my parents had tried other discipline with no luck, and I have absolutely no problem with the fact that my dad paddled me for what I did. It worked, too, btw. [;)]

W.O.F. -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (9/21/2009 2:18:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom My kids get only swats as toddlers. And they don't get true spanks that often. However, there have been rare and short periods of time where one child might get spanked several days in a row. And that has happened after age 6 too. The usual reason for this is the child will not control his behavior (either intentionally or unintentionally hurting his siblings with a certain behavior, or reacting to gentle correction with anger or screaming towards parents), after warnings and other forms of discipline. This doesn't happen often (my kids are generally great kids[:)]), but I have no problem with spanking after age 5 if the situation warrents it. For my kids, knowing that the punishment for certain behaviors will be swift, severe, and consistently applied means that those behaviors last a shorter time and the intervals between their slipups are much longer than if I use something else. The last spanking I ever got, I was 9 years old. I totally deserved it, my parents had tried other discipline with no luck, and I have absolutely no problem with the fact that my dad paddled me for what I did. It worked, too, btw. [;)] I felt I needed to clarify...I am not saying that my kids don't get spanked after age 5...but that it is fairly rare after that age. I am not against it, but with my three oldest...I found other punishments "hurt" them more, and thus were more effective. My current 6 year old still gets spanked, but it is rare. My other child is under 5...but she doesn't get spanked much. She is a child to whom timeouts are excruciating, and therefore the most effective punishment for her.

HEWM -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (9/23/2009 1:14:33 PM)
I've seen that spanking usually occurs when a parent is stressed, tired, overwhelmed, distracted or just plain not interested in the child, seriously, there could also be an overzealous religious aspect. Using religion as a powertool.!!!!! What's up with wanting my child to look like a perfect model child in public? Isn't that just parent pride? What is more important than the child I have received into my home? Isn't the child a small piece of heaven loaned to me for a limited time? Nothing is the child's fault. That is a bold statement I know but I am convinced that a child's behaviour is subject to it's DNA, environment and role models. I remember being told to begin spanking my first child at 6 months old. Preposterous. A highly religious individual by whom I was also told to withhold affection from my child. Did I listen? No No No and I am so thankful because this particular child turns out is living with a genetic mental disorder and needs to remember the love and the hugs and the patience in order to survive as an adult in this crazy world. In the end, we will all face the same Maker, both the Maker of the child and the parent. The parent will face the question - did I do right by this child? Could I have modeled the love of Christ more effectively? Does she or he know they were loved? Did I take time, my time to help them understand, grow and blossom?

W.O.F. -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (9/23/2009 1:21:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HEWM I've seen that spanking usually occurs when a parent is stressed, tired, overwhelmed, distracted or just plain not interested in the child, seriously, there could also be an overzealous religious aspect. Using religion as a powertool.!!!!! What's up with wanting my child to look like a perfect model child in public? Isn't that just parent pride? What is more important than the child I have received into my home? Isn't the child a small piece of heaven loaned to me for a limited time? Nothing is the child's fault. That is a bold statement I know but I am convinced that a child's behaviour is subject to it's DNA, environment and role models. I remember being told to begin spanking my first child at 6 months old. Preposterous. A highly religious individual by whom I was also told to withhold affection from my child. wow...what a lot of generalizations as well as horrible advice you were given. First of all....there are a lot of parents, like myself and most the people here that do NOT expect their children to be perfect...and who use spanking as one of MANY tools and not as a first resort and NEVER out of frustration or anger. I NEVER spank my children in public. They get corrected, but the training that takes place at home usually is sufficient to cover public transgressions. I have to disagree.....some things, depending on the child, ARE the child's fault...but not until they are older. NO one said that training should not happen.... I also have to disagree on the DNA thing. Yes...our DNA does factor in some of our responses to things...but when it comes to disobedience and parental training....it had NOTHING to do with DNA...and everything to do with patient calm teaching, modeling and loving...and yes...sometimes punishment..whether that be timeouts, privilege removal, or spanking. Christ is about love, but even HE did not refuse to punish. Scripture states numerous times that a father disciplines and punishes those whom he loves...and in fact goes so far to say that THE Father does so as well. Not saying people have to spank...but don't lump all who use spanking as one of their many tools into the category into which it seems you have. Also...do not discredit your child, even with their disablities, by insisting that NOTHING is ever their fault.

justpassinby -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (9/23/2009 2:07:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom I hope you are joking, justpassinby. No, I'm not. But then again, I support spankings even though I can't remember a time I did so with my own kids, and according to the bible the man should be the head of the household but I let my wife be (she does all the driving even to church) so I guess I don't practice what I preach, either that, or I'm so secure with my masculinity that I don't have to do all those things to prove it. Maybe I give my wife and kids free reign the same way Christ does to His Church, as we are a family, and like the spiritual, we are all equal. And in addition you don't see me gripe of marital problems in the marriage board. As much flack as I get and people who try to "correct" me, I surely seem to have less problems than they do.

Sideways -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (9/23/2009 2:09:21 PM)
You'd have a hard time finding Biblical support for a man taking a switch to his wife, but I don't know if this is the right thread for that.

Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (9/23/2009 2:48:49 PM)
Some of what I read here scares me more for the writers than for their recipients.

PDeverit -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/1/2009 12:58:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: W.O.F. and yet studies done at Harvard, and Princeton show that those families that do practice controlled spanking....have LESS abuse overall than those who do not practice spanking. Sweden's teen crime rate has climbed steadily since the 1970's when they outlawed spanking of children.... and yes...the US did not ratify the convention of the child...because most Americans do not want their children belonging to the state anymore than they already do. Some of the countries listed that have ratified the convention have some of the worst records of child abuse and human rights issues in the world (Thailand and India for example think nothing of trafficking children for sexual slavery....). Studies from Harvard and Princeton? Which ones? I know of Harvard professors (such as Dr. Alvin Poussaint, director in Judge Baker Childrens' Center in Boston, and professor of psychiatry at Harvard), Harvard's Project Zero and studies from Princeton's Center For Research on Child Wellbeing suggest otherwise. Did you mean the study done at the Biola University?

W.O.F. -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/1/2009 1:57:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PDeverit Studies from Harvard and Princeton? Which ones? I know of Harvard professors (such as Dr. Alvin Poussaint, director in Judge Baker Childrens' Center in Boston, and professor of psychiatry at Harvard), Harvard's Project Zero and studies from Princeton's Center For Research on Child Wellbeing suggest otherwise. Did you mean the study done at the Biola University? No....this was not done at Biola.... I will try to find it....I used to have a link to it. It was done by a psychologist and sociologist. They were shocked to find that spanking (in a controlled manner) actually reduced abuse..verbal as well as physical. Here are some other quotes from various psychologist/sociologists that disagree with the "spanking is evil" theory: "Almost everyone has been spanked as a kid, and they say, Well, I've been spanked, and I turned out OK,' and most of them have spanked their own kids," said University of New Hampshire sociologist Murray Straus, who has studied spanking since 1969. University of California at Berkeley professor Diana Baumrind concludes that spanking isn't so bad. "The short- and long-term consequences of corporal punishment is no more or less harmful than a mild scolding, time-out or other developmentally appropriate level and kind of punishment," said Baumrind, who conducted a long-term study following about 100 families over a dozen years. here is a different paper than the one I was referring to: Corporal Punishment I will continue to search for the paper I read three years ago...and get a link for it.

W.O.F. -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/1/2009 2:41:03 PM)
The authors of the paper I am talking about were : John P. Bartowski, Mississippi State University and W. Bradford Wilcox, Princeton University so I was wrong...it wasn't Harvard. I can't find a link yet...but I found my hard copy of the study.

PDeverit -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/1/2009 10:38:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: W.O.F. quote: ORIGINAL: PDeverit Studies from Harvard and Princeton? Which ones? I know of Harvard professors (such as Dr. Alvin Poussaint, director in Judge Baker Childrens' Center in Boston, and professor of psychiatry at Harvard), Harvard's Project Zero and studies from Princeton's Center For Research on Child Wellbeing suggest otherwise. Did you mean the study done at the Biola University? No....this was not done at Biola.... I will try to find it....I used to have a link to it. It was done by a psychologist and sociologist. They were shocked to find that spanking (in a controlled manner) actually reduced abuse..verbal as well as physical. Here are some other quotes from various psychologist/sociologists that disagree with the "spanking is evil" theory: "Almost everyone has been spanked as a kid, and they say, Well, I've been spanked, and I turned out OK,' and most of them have spanked their own kids," said University of New Hampshire sociologist Murray Straus, who has studied spanking since 1969. University of California at Berkeley professor Diana Baumrind concludes that spanking isn't so bad. "The short- and long-term consequences of corporal punishment is no more or less harmful than a mild scolding, time-out or other developmentally appropriate level and kind of punishment," said Baumrind, who conducted a long-term study following about 100 families over a dozen years. here is a different paper than the one I was referring to: Corporal Punishment I will continue to search for the paper I read three years ago...and get a link for it. Actually, Murray Strauss is on the anti-spanking side. He is a director of the Family Research laboratory at the University of New Hampshire, and is the author of several anti-hitting books. Most recently released was his study showing that child bottom-slapping lowers IQ http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090924231749.htm and then there was the one about how child buttock-battering can cause sexual problems: http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/spanking-kids-increases-risk-sexual-problems-adults-15590.html Actually, no offense, but Diana Baumrind was the only one you listed that saw child bottom-slapping as OK. It was in 2001, and she has since been refuted.

W.O.F. -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/2/2009 11:36:27 AM)
no offense, but many people are already debunking Struass's premise that spanking lowers IQ. He used a sampling from an area in the US that has multiple factors for lowering IQ, and many researchers (even some on his side of the fence) find his research faulty and with multiple holes. I still find it interesting that while he is anti-spanking, he produced the quote that he did. And, if spanking truly does lower IQ, my brother should have been an idiot...instead...his IQ is off the charts as are his alpha and beta brain waves.

Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/2/2009 12:04:34 PM)
I am adamantly against spanking for any reason, but I would suggest that spanking probably increases certain intelligences in areas. I have seen that in myself as well as in others who are spanked and in children who are spanked.

Crushmaster -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/2/2009 12:58:05 PM)
I support spanking from personal experience and from the obvious implications in the Bible. God bless, Crushmaster.

W.O.F. -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/2/2009 4:00:10 PM)
I am not against spanking, nor do I think it is the only form of punishment that will work. What I am against is "specialists" in the field making up and stacking figures to make it look as though spanking is evil. IF spanking really does cause sexual perversion..than we have some serious problems.....in stead of being abhorrent sexual behaviour, what is called that now would actually be the norm. I am not saying that some parents don't make it a sexual thing, but then they are doing it wrong, and for the wrong reasons. But then...verbal abuse can cause some of the same issues, as can , believe it or not , time outs, etc. I can remember in my college psych class, the then fad of saying a certain form of punishment lead to sexual issues and lowered IQ was "time outs" because that was the "removal of affection" from a child.....

PitaKat -> RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread (10/2/2009 10:35:25 PM)
I found this thread to be pretty interesting. It kinda started out about hitting or spanking dogs, but morphed into a spanking thread http://www.dogforums.com/7-off-topic/55005-people-who-have-kids.html BTW, I'm one of the posters on there.

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