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possible abuse - 11/2/2009 12:36:44 PM
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SurpassingPeace
Posts: 816
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There is a mother and son at my church that I am concerned about. The mother is a single mother, he husband left her, and her son is a 4 year old with down syndrom. He is a challenging child and it is an extremely hard situation. Here is the problem, his mother hits him all the time. I have never seen them that she did not swat him 3-5 times. Sometimes it is more. Sometimes this is just down the hall to his class. She is so frustated and I have witnessed her take her frustration out on him. From what I have witnessed, she is usually angry with him for behaving like a two year old, dawdling, fussing because he doesn't want her to leave, just not wanting to go somewhere. The most heartbreaking is when she hits him because he won't stop crying because she just hit him. I want to define hit. She grabs his wrist, jerks him forward, and smacks him somewhere between lower back and upper thighs. The more angry she gets, the harder she hits.
Each Sunday she is more out of control. I do not know her well at all. I emailed the head of our preschool Sunday School dept. who discussed it with the pastor. His exact words were, "We will observe carefully and prayerfully. Even though there may be concern there is a big difference between what we may think is excessive dicipline and abuse. "
In my opinion, there can be a fine line between excessive discipline and abuse. Especially if it is that out of control in public. But here is my biggest concern, I honestly believe this woman loves her child. I cannot imagine being in her shoes. To me, it would be better for someone she respects in authority to come along side her gently and with love and talk to her before something really bad happens or someone calls cps. And someone will call cps.
I have offered the SS director to get the woman in contact with a good friend of mine. She has worked with people with special needs for 12 years and adopted a special needs child herself. She could get her hooked up with Respite (sp?), a mother's support group, all kinds of things for free.
Right now, I am thinking the only thing I can do is try to get to know her so I can offer this personally. Also, perhaps there is something I can do to relieve some burden. Also, just watch carefully and call cps myself if it gets worse. I really, really don't want to do that but I also don't want to do nothing and then something truly tragic happen.
This is really heavy on my heart. I would like to know what you think. The pro/cons of cps has been debated all over the place so if we could not go down that bunny trail, I would appreciate it. Also, please don't turn it into spanking/nonspanking thread because there is a thread for that.
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Karen
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RE: possible abuse - 11/2/2009 1:00:11 PM
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coolfamily6
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Karen,
CPS will not just rush in there and take the child. They will try to get her help first, that is what they did with my friend. They had someone come in help her get services and the help she needed.
Is there anyone willing to jump in and help this lady rather than just praying? I don't mean that to sound bad, it just seems like she needs hands on help now.
_____________________________
If your bible is a mess; your life won't be.
~Encouragement a mom gave to our children at our First Grader's Bible Ceremony!
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RE: possible abuse - 11/2/2009 1:16:55 PM
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SurpassingPeace
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I know cps wont' just yank him out. I thought it would be better to be handled by the church family but it doesn't seem like anyone is willing to step up.
I agree, she needs help now. I had a very long talk with my friend, the expert in this field, this morning. The behavior I describe concerns her as well. She has seen situations that are this stressed rapidly spiral down. She is more than willing to help this woman and get her help, I just need to figure out a way to get them together. Like I said, I don't really know her so I don't feel like I can just walk and say, "Hey, I notice you hit your child alot. I have a friend that can help". That is a bit facetious but I hope you see what I mean.
The truth is I am angry. I am angry with my church leadership not willing to be more proactive. To me, living for Christ and doing the right thing means getting out of your comfort zone and walking that scary line. I don't mean they should bust down her door on my word but I get the distinct feeling that the reply really meant. This is none of our business so we won't be getting involved.
It all makes me so sad.
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Karen
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RE: possible abuse - 11/2/2009 1:25:08 PM
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laura...
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My understanding is that SS teachers, Directors and Pastors have a legal duty to report any suspicion of abuse. The church absolutely should be calling CPS. Hitting a Down's Syndrome child is abusive. She needs to learn better skills for parenting a special needs child. CPS will ensure that she does so and may give her the opportunity to correct her parenting before going to the extent of removing her son. Given the child's special needs, CPS might remove him from her home until she demonstrates the ability to parent him in a more appropriate manner. But, that's their call. The church leadership still has the duty to report.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: possible abuse - 11/2/2009 1:32:53 PM
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SurpassingPeace
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Laura, I thought they were mandatory reporters as well. I am going to do some research on Missouri. I agree she needs help. She needs to learn new coping techniques.
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Karen
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RE: possible abuse - 11/2/2009 1:36:25 PM
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Focusing
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Karen, is it possible for your friend to come to church and be visiting with you when the mother is bringing her child to Sunday school? If she is able to see this woman and her child, perhaps she can say something along the lines of ... "I work with special needs children .......... sometimes it can be frustrating" to get the conversation rolling. Hopefully not at a time when the mother is beyond frustrated. Just a suggestion.
I will pray for you, your friend, and especially for this mother and child. She must be in a very difficult place emotionally.
_____________________________
Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you.
Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful.
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RE: possible abuse - 11/2/2009 1:37:53 PM
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laura...
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According to here they do.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: possible abuse - 11/2/2009 1:40:37 PM
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laura...
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Here's a paper specifically addressed to Ministers.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: possible abuse - 11/2/2009 1:46:14 PM
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SurpassingPeace
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Laura, you are fabulous. Thank you for saving me the time. I will look at the second later this afternoon. I also need to look at Missouri's statutes to see if what she is doing constitutes legal abuse, especially because of his Down's Syndrome. Or I will just call and ask. That is probably the easiest thing.
There is something deep down that tells me this is time sensitive and could result in tragedy. I don't want to be at the other ends thinking could of, should of, would, or if only I had... then this would not have happened.
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Karen
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RE: possible abuse - 11/2/2009 2:00:05 PM
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laura...
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According to the first link the requirement is that it be reported within 24 hours. Failure to report is a Class A misdemeanor.
It is not a requirement that the reporter know for sure that what they suspect or observe is actually abuse. Determining whether or not the child is in fact being abused is the duty of CPS.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: possible abuse - 11/2/2009 2:00:13 PM
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BlessedMamaofmany
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I agree. That Momma needs help. NOW. As a mom of a (much milder) special needs kid, I can fully understand her frustration. Seriously.
Imho, your church leadership is dropping the ball and badly.
You have a few options as I see it.
Get your friend to ''notice'' her at church and strike up a convo.
Strike up a convo yourself. "Hey, your child is so lovely/handsome. I have kids such and such age. Would you like to get together sometime?"
Call cps.
Lovingly point out to your church leadership that they have a LEGAL and BIBLICAL obligation to protect this child and help the child's mother. Firmly.
Sandy
_____________________________
Atheism: The belief that there was nothing, nothing happened to nothing, then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything, then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself into self-replicating bits that then turned into dinosaurs
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RE: possible abuse - 11/2/2009 2:08:19 PM
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SurpassingPeace
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You are all wonderful. I was just discussing options with my husband. Laura, after your post I called the Child Abuse hotline. They told me that they would indeed investigate under these circumstances. Unfortunately, I do not have the first and last name. I will get it.
My friend does not go to my church. I wish I could get them together. She is this amazing person. People feel instantly calm and connected to her. She is so good at her job.
I agree that the leadership has dropped the ball. I am not happy to find myself in this position. In my opinion, they should be handling this. I will do the right thing but I believe it would be better if they did. I am calming down so I can address this appropriately but I do think they need to understand their responsibilities in this.
Hopefully, I will be able to form a relationship with her. I am an extrovert and have no problem making the first move. I am still so sad that this woman and child really need the body of Christ and we are failing her.
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Karen
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RE: possible abuse - 11/2/2009 2:25:27 PM
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laura...
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From: NE Ohio
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quote:
I agree that the leadership has dropped the ball. I am not happy to find myself in this position. In my opinion, they should be handling this. I will do the right thing but I believe it would be better if they did. I am calming down so I can address this appropriately but I do think they need to understand their responsibilities in this.
It is not just your opinion that they should be handling this. It is the state's legal requirement that they should be handling this.
Thank you for calling CPS. Get as much info as you can on the mom and child and call them back. Then, I suggest that you print out the state of Missouri's mandatory reporting laws and remind your leadership of their responsibility before they get slapped with legal charges.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: possible abuse - 11/2/2009 9:04:06 PM
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W.O.F.
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I agree with all that you have done to help this mom...but in the meantime (while you wait for cps to do their job to help her)...maybe you can offer to give her a mom's day out....offer to take care of the little man (if you have the time and can) for an hour or two or more once or twice a week.
Being a single mom in and of itself is extremely stressful..and having one who needs extra care....must be even more so.
Thank you for caring enough to honestly help her.
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: possible abuse - 11/2/2009 9:33:30 PM
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truthrevealed
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Surpassingpeace, I ask this question with no offense intended I may simply be misunderstanding....
You mentioned that this is a situation where the church should do something/be involved? Why as a member of the body would you not lovingly confront the mother yourself, having sought God about how to proceed before consulting the advice of man, and speak to her about your concerns? Perhaps she is a stressed mother who could use the compassion of another woman...maybe an ear, but certainly not someone calling cps on her before she was told about the concerns of a member first .
If you've already stated that you've taken these steps forgive me 
_____________________________
I'll tell the world....where--ever I go. That I, have found, a Savior....and He's sweet I know!!!
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RE: possible abuse - 11/2/2009 9:52:24 PM
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manda59
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Once many years ago, I approached a family in the church directly with my concerns for their special needs child whom I witnessed being emotionally abused a number of times.
Their reaction? To complain to the elders of the church to say that I'd criticised their parenting, which stirred up a whole heap of trouble for us and also left the child no better off, and possibly worse off.
If there are concerns of abuse, I would ALWAYS recommend reporting it to the relevant agency rather than trying to get involved directly. Potentially far too messy otherwise.
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"Manda.....you said what I tried to say, just much better"
sharonjef, October 2009
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RE: possible abuse - 11/2/2009 9:55:40 PM
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bolt.
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quote:
I have offered the SS director to get the woman in contact with a good friend of mine. She has worked with people with special needs for 12 years and adopted a special needs child herself. She could get her hooked up with Respite (sp?), a mother's support group, all kinds of things for free.
Right now, I am thinking the only thing I can do is try to get to know her so I can offer this personally. Also, perhaps there is something I can do to relieve some burden. Also, just watch carefully and call cps myself if it gets worse. I really, really don't want to do that but I also don't want to do nothing and then something truly tragic happen.
This is the right plan, including that your concerns have already merited a call. Hopefully she won't know it's you, so that you will still be able to be supportive and/or connective. Perhaps your friend might be willing to visit your Church for a Sunday to make the connection?
Your Church leadership might be falling short, but you do not need their help, support or permission to carry out the calling that God has laid on your heart. You, yourself, are a minister of the King's mercy. This appears to be your duty.
_____________________________
Are you having trouble getting your daily dose of the life changing Word of God?
Let my friend Brian at Daily Audio Bible help you too.
>>audio link<<
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RE: possible abuse - 11/3/2009 6:23:20 AM
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SurpassingPeace
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Bolt, thank you. After much prayer, that is the plan I am going with. I know what I have to do and I am going to do it. God laid this very strongly and urgently on my heart that I know it is my duty. I don't want to do it. I don't want to "stir up trouble" and possibly anger people. Yesterday, I loaded up my kids at the spur of the moment and went to our Botanical Gardens. It is a beautiful, peaceful place especially on a Monday. I can let my two year old wander and meandered without too much concern. As we walked and talked about leaves, I did alot of praying. At one point I said, God I don't want to be a troublemaker and upset people. The reply was so clear, Christ was a trouble maker and upset people when He had to. As far as I am concerned, there was my answer.
Truthrevealed, the reason I don't approach her is because I don't know her. Without a relationship, I don't see it as helpful. Why would she take words, that no matter how lovingly I said them, will be critical from someone she doesn't know? I am not sure of her relationship with Christ or anything so I don't have common ground. The reason I am calling cps is because the situation has many flags that show its urgency. I don't have time to form a relationship with her and then talk to her. The result could very well be tragic. I am not willing to take that chance.
WOF, I do hope to form a relationship and offer help. I would be more than willing to take her son so she can get some time to herself. My heart hurts for this woman. She is so overwhelmed.
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Karen
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RE: possible abuse - 11/3/2009 9:21:09 AM
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truthrevealed
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quote:
Truthrevealed, the reason I don't approach her is because I don't know her. Without a relationship, I don't see it as helpful. Why would she take words, that no matter how lovingly I said them, will be critical from someone she doesn't know? I am not sure of her relationship with Christ or anything so I don't have common ground. The reason I am calling cps is because the situation has many flags that show its urgency. I don't have time to form a relationship with her and then talk to her. The result could very well be tragic. I am not willing to take that chance.
WOF, I do hope to form a relationship and offer help. I would be more than willing to take her son so she can get some time to herself. My heart hurts for this woman. She is so overwhelmed.
At the end of the day, I pray you do what your spirit leads you to do. This is a perfect opportunity to offer Christian counsel and form a relationship via communication. Everyone is different. If I'd learned that someone called "authorities" on me for something they'd witnessed, tried to remain anonymous and then tried to form a relationship with me, feeling betrayed is a cute way of saying it wouldn't be pretty. But go with your heart. God bless
< Message edited by truthrevealed -- 11/3/2009 9:28:43 AM >
_____________________________
I'll tell the world....where--ever I go. That I, have found, a Savior....and He's sweet I know!!!
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RE: possible abuse - 11/3/2009 10:09:36 AM
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SurpassingPeace
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I do understand what you are saying. What is comes down to is that I have to follow the Holy Spirit's leading. I do not want this woman to feel betrayed but I don't want this child dead because I was fearful of offending her. To me it is that simple and that blunt. I can handle it not being pretty. God will give me the strength to do what is right. I would not want to handle the horror of failing to act. I am concerned about both of them but the child's safety must come first.
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Karen
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RE: possible abuse - 11/3/2009 10:44:30 AM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 1653
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SurpassingPeace
I do understand what you are saying. What is comes down to is that I have to follow the Holy Spirit's leading. I do not want this woman to feel betrayed but I don't want this child dead because I was fearful of offending her. To me it is that simple and that blunt. I can handle it not being pretty. God will give me the strength to do what is right. I would not want to handle the horror of failing to act. I am concerned about both of them but the child's safety must come first.
Amen
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: possible abuse - 11/4/2009 4:52:06 PM
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mamajennleigh
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quote:
I do understand what you are saying. What is comes down to is that I have to follow the Holy Spirit's leading. I do not want this woman to feel betrayed but I don't want this child dead because I was fearful of offending her. To me it is that simple and that blunt. I can handle it not being pretty. God will give me the strength to do what is right. I would not want to handle the horror of failing to act. I am concerned about both of them but the child's safety must come first.
Ditto. Amen.
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We may not have arrived, but Praise the Lord we've set sail!
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RE: possible abuse - 11/5/2009 12:27:25 AM
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OneOfHisJewels
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I don't know what to do about the situation specifically, but I do know that when a handicapped child comes along, that is often the reason for the dad leaving. I don't know if that is the case for this woman, but it may be. Then the mom has the burden of being a single parent, parenting their handicapped kid, KNOWING the dad rejected the kid because of his handicap, and knowing the dad didn't stay to help her. Understandably this can make a person feel frustrated and angry. Do I excuse her? no But knowing this do I somewhat understand? Yes Do I think the child needs to be protected? yes
But I think all of the above needs to be kept in mind...just sayin.'
_____________________________
Wizard's rule #1 .People can be stupid and willfully deceived (that's from the book, not the show)..slightly edited for CW
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