Does anyone today actually speak in tongues for real?

Theology
21

From a New Testament standpoint, tongues appear primarily in Acts and 1 Corinthians, functioning as a sign associated with the initial expansion of the gospel to new covenantal groups. In Acts, tongues consistently mark threshold moments in redemptive history rather than routine Christian experience. Linguistically, the term γλῶσσαι refers to intelligible languages, not ecstatic utterance, and syntactically in Acts the phenomenon is outward-facing and confirmatory, not devotional or private. This already limits how the gift is defined.

Paul’s treatment in 1 Corinthians 12–14 places tongues within the category of charismata given for the edification of the body, but even there, the syntax and argumentation show that tongues are subordinate, regulated, and temporary in function. In 1 Corinthians 13, Paul explicitly contrasts gifts that are partial and provisional with what is teleion (complete or mature).

Cessationists argue that the grammar supports the view that revelatory gifts would cease once their purpose was fulfilled, while continuationists argue that “the perfect” refers to eschatological completion.

The text itself does not settle the debate definitively.

From a historical standpoint, this is where the argument sharpens. The post-apostolic church shows a marked decline in tongues. Church fathers such as Chrysostom and Augustine explicitly state that tongues belonged to the early church and were no longer present in their day. Importantly, they do not treat this as a tragedy or loss, but as a sign that the church had moved from foundation to stability. This strongly supports the claim that tongues were not a normal, continuous feature of church life after the apostolic era.

However, it is also true that claims of tongues do not disappear entirely in church history. They reappear sporadically, usually in marginal movements, revival contexts, or periods of intense religious upheaval. The question then becomes not “did tongues ever occur again,” but whether those occurrences are the same phenomenon described in Acts. Linguistically, historically, and functionally, they usually are not.

Theologically, cessationism does not argue that God is unable to give tongues today, but that He is not obligated to repeat a sign whose covenantal function has already been fulfilled. Continuationism argues that Scripture nowhere explicitly states a cutoff date and that the Spirit distributes gifts as He wills until the return of Christ. Both positions exist within orthodox Christianity, but they rest on different readings of purpose, not on denial of Scripture.

So the precise answer is this:
The apostolic sign-gift of tongues, as intelligible languages given to authenticate new phases of revelation, appears to have ceased with the apostolic age.
Claims of tongues after that point exist, but they are not demonstrably identical in nature, function, or purpose to those described in the New Testament.

2 cents.

J.

1 Like
22

I am so appreciative for you sharing you personal experience and because you’ve said why you find it important to do so, I will share a little of my own experience.

Because of unfortunate events when I was very young I was taken in by my grandmother. I’d known her to be a child of God all of my life. At home, she would pray on her knees for so long, calling out people and then she would make sounds I could not understand but would bring me to tears. Yes, it was emotions and I of course didn’t understand the “why”. I would go to church with her and what I witness back then and remember today is nothing short of miraculous. The women in that church of God faced demon possessed people that would walk right in from the off the streets, walk right down the aisles, manifest, and as those Christians approached them the person(s) would always drop and act out even more, speaking what I would not understand, foaming and grabbing themselves as if they couldn’t help themselves. It was painful to watch. But suddenly after a few words were spoken by those Christians who had surrounded the person, that person would be helped up. They would then cry and tell us about how they were hurt by people, some of them. I remember others would only cry and seemed so thankful. They went from angry and out of control to calm and submissive. They always would thank the Lord after being told that it was Jesus who delivered them. As they thanked him, everyone would join in. Yes, it was like a celebration. Emotional, yes. But what took place a lot of times after that should shut the lips of many of you doubter. These very appreciative strangers would begin to make sounds that I’d laugh about with other kids after church.

There were times when I witnessed people speaking what I know as tongues today quietly beside me as I stood in church, with their hands lifted in worship. But only when I was in my 30’s and begin to grow in the knowledge of the Lord, did I start speaking in tongues in prayer, at home, away from my family. I was exalting the Lord with such gratitude in my known language, then my tongue was loosed as I began to focus on what I was thinking and wanted to portray to my father, but my words just didn’t seem to hold the meaning. As I continued, I became less focused on articulating my words to say and just focused on saying. Thoughts held my meaning. And we that know scripture knows that, that that is unseen is spiritual. The unseen, speaking the unknown, blessing me with such assurance that my father’s ear was against my lips as I magnified him in worship. It wasn’t about my tongue to me, but the meaning in each breath I breathed out to Him. I felt compel to continue in tongues.

I soon began to speak in tongues quietly in church and had started to notice that as the leaders would pray aloud for individuals or a mass group that it would be exactly what I prayed in tongues like right before they would speak out loud. Now I know some of you will question this or even doubt this. I would too, had I not experienced this myself. Yes. Now I understand this to have been the interpretation of tongues manifested because as it was at home, knowing with understanding the meaning of the sounds, or tongue(s) coming from my mouth, the same understanding was present when I spoke quietly in the church. I, at first questioned it all until the same would happen when my husband and I would pray at home with our children. I wouldn’t pray out loud as to disturb or interrupt the prayer. But quietly and he would say aloud what was spoken. Next, whenever we’d go to hospitals and prayed for the people there. Until, one day while praying, he said something that was absolutely not what I heard to pray for. It was as if their was faith with doubt for greater. I felt such pain within. It was hard to explain then, to him, when we spoke about why he chose to settle for less in that situation for that person. I grieved inside. But let me say this. It is that these signs will follow them that believe. :upside_down_face: If, and I am not speaking to @TheologyNerd but to us all. The Word is true whether we believe it or not. The Holy Spirit is present to do what he does, Lol. The scriptures say that faith is what we are to live by. There isn’t room for doubt, not if you want to go to work with our Father. (I’m giggling over here at that :drooling_face:) I love when it’s bring your daughter to work day. He is good at what he does, always. Our faith is to be in Him, not ourselves. Who am I, who are any of us to say what the Holy Spirit does now if the scripture says nothing of the sort. What the word says if that the spirit of God shall continue with signs and wonder. That the gifts will continue until we are caught up and see the Lord face to face. Have you not read this yourself? Just because we don’t hear the tree fall in the forest doesn’t mean it didn’t fall. Just because you haven’t seen for yourself, doesn’t mean it isn’t so. Especially when we are to have faith and believe the word. Seeing is not believing. We believe first, then we see. Jesus said to Martha (John 11:40) that if you would believe, you shall see the glory of God. We are not to stop believing and then come up with all these reasons why to tell the Spirit of God you can’t do this in this day and time, because. To me this is what is being done because we have reasons. Lol. We have all these reasons. We people of faith. Smh. It’s this the carpenter’s son.

For me, it is simple. My God spoke the Word, and the Holy Spirit does the Word and will continue if we only believe. Don’t capture him and put him within our compacity to understand. He won’t fit.

Love you, truly fam.

23

I have seen what appeared to be speaking in tongues, @BeStill, but I caution you to avoid projecting your amazing experience on other people. He deals with different believers in different ways and with different gifts.

When I was a pastor, God gave me the spiritual gifts of preaching and teaching, not tongues. Now that he has made me a published author, he has given me the gift of creativity through writing.

In connection with my observance of other people’s apparent speaking in tongues, one of them was in a circle of people at a Bible camp. One of them babbled some words and then fell down as if dead. I don’t think it was real.

Another time, I attended a worship service in which most of the members were standing and speaking in unrecognizable words, while they drowned out the preacher’s sermon. I know that such speaking was largely something else besides genuine speaking in tongues, since it was far from edifying.

On the other hand, a close relative says that he has spoken in tongues in private prayer for decades. I think that, for various reasons, his experience fits 1 Corinthians 12-14 well.

By the way, 1 Corinthians 12:31 tells us to seek the gifts that edify other Christians like prophetic (preaching) and teaching gifts rather than the more spectacular gifts like tongues.

1Co 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.
1Co 12:28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
1Co 12:30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
1Co 12:31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.

1 Like
24

Justin Peters has been effective in critically examining this claimed “phenomenon,” particularly in highlighting its theological and historical inconsistencies. @Bruce_Leiter

1 Corinthians 12:29
Are all apostles?… No some are prophets, as distinct from apostles; and some are teachers, as distinct from them both, and some are neither:

are all prophets? no; some are apostles, above them, and some are teachers, inferior to them; and but very few there were who had that peculiar character and gift:
are all teachers? no; the far greater part of the members of churches are hearers, or persons that are taught in the word; are neither in the office of teaching, nor have they the qualifications for it.

Are all workers of miracles? no; in those early times, when the gift of doing miracles was bestowed, it was not given to all, only to some; and now there are none that are possessed of it.

  1. “Are all apostles?” (me pantes apostoloi) “Not all (are) apostles (are they)?” Paul asked seven successive rhetorical questions by use of parallelism. Each question implied a negative answer to be right.

  2. “Are all prophets?” (me pantes prophetai) “All (are) not prophets (are they)?” Surely all church members were neither of the first four kinds name, 1) apostles, 2) prophets, 3) teachers, and 4) miracle

Mark 16:17 (KJV)
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Acts 2:3 (KJV)
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

Acts 2:4 (KJV)
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:11 (KJV)
Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Acts 10:46 (KJV)
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Acts 19:6 (KJV)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Romans 3:13 (KJV)
Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

1 Corinthians 12:10 (KJV)
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

1 Corinthians 12:28 (KJV)
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

1 Corinthians 12:30 (KJV)
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

1 Corinthians 13:1 (KJV)
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

1 Corinthians 13:8 (KJV)
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

1 Corinthians 14:5 (KJV)
I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

1 Corinthians 14:6 (KJV)
Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

1 Corinthians 14:18 (KJV)
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

1 Corinthians 14:21 (KJV)
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

1 Corinthians 14:22 (KJV)
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

1 Corinthians 14:23 (KJV)
If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

1 Corinthians 14:39 (KJV)
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

J.

25

Of course He does, and that was the point. My friend didn’t understand what I was talking about until she had a similar experience. Hearing other peoples experiences and how God has worked in their life, I find encouraging. I shared something rare. Some will not believe it and others might be encouraged. What I doubt is that anyone would be harmed by it in any way. Isn’t sharing our faith, story and God’s work in our lives the whole point of this forum? If God blesses me with something wonderful, should I keep it to myself? I don’t see your point.

1 Like
26

Point is…

Irenaeus (late 2nd century)
Irenaeus is often cited by continuationists because he mentions charismatic gifts, including languages. However, he speaks of them as signs accompanying the spread of the gospel, not as a normalized feature of weekly worship. His language is descriptive, not prescriptive, and notably vague compared to Acts. There is no evidence he is describing Corinthian-style congregational practice. This places tongues closer to missionary authentication than devotional speech.

Tertullian (early 3rd century)
Tertullian refers to spiritual gifts, but by the time of his later writings, he associates them almost exclusively with the Montanist movement, which the broader church regarded as excessive and unstable. This is important: tongues are already drifting to the margins and attaching themselves to controversial groups rather than the catholic church.

Origen (early–mid 3rd century)
Origen explicitly treats tongues as a phenomenon belonging to the apostolic era. He interprets them typologically and historically, not as a present expectation. For Origen, tongues functioned as a sign during the church’s infancy and were no longer necessary once the gospel had spread.

John Chrysostom (late 4th century)
This is one of the clearest witnesses. Commenting directly on 1 Corinthians 12–14, Chrysostom states that tongues were obscure and unknown in his own day, and that the gift had ceased. He does not express confusion, regret, or expectation of revival. He treats cessation as a matter of historical fact.

Augustine (late 4th–early 5th century)
Augustine initially taught that tongues had ceased with the apostles, explicitly stating that they were signs given for the founding of the church. Later in life, he acknowledged miraculous healings but never reversed his position on tongues as a normative gift. Even when he allowed for miracles, tongues remained tied to the apostolic foundation.

What this tells us collectively
The Fathers do not argue about whether tongues should continue. They assume the phenomenon had already faded. When tongues appear later, they are treated as either symbolic, exceptional, or suspect. There is no patristic push to revive or institutionalize them.

So historically speaking:

The ECF knew of tongues
They associated them with the apostolic and missionary phase
They explicitly state the gift was no longer present or expected
They do not interpret 1 Corinthians 14:39 as a perpetual mandate

That does not end the theological debate, but it does anchor it. Anyone claiming that modern charismatic practice represents unbroken continuity has to explain why the Fathers, who read Greek fluently and lived closest to the apostles, did not see it that way.

That silence is not accidental.

J.

27

ABSOLUTEY NOT! Please share your experience. We shouldn’t be about dividing the people of God to be this or that because some believe in the operation of the gifts of the Spirit being manifested today. If the scripture says contrary to the experiences that are had, simply give the scripture. Please. As for the ones drawing conclusions as to why they believe tongues were spoken then but that it’s not for today, I say, “says you”. But what does the Bible say? My I want to know how they know it isn’t for the now. Is it because they have not experience this gift themselves? After experiencing speaking in tongues themselves would they then believe or deny that experience…because? HAHA!!!

28

Augustine’s quest for truth was his. Do all seekers find? All believers in Christ don’t even believe all of the word, which is why we have opposing beliefs even now, on this. I for one put scripture above and before scholars. When it comes to the word being clear and someone opposing it, how can we believe man over God? Believing that the gift(s) have ceased today when the scripture tells us when it will cease along with, not excluded from, the other gifts mentioned, how can we say otherwise?

1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never fails but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail whether there be tongues they shall cease whether there be knowledge it shall vanish away.

Verse 9 For (BECAUSE) we know in part, and we prophesy in part (this is NOW) ….

Verse 10 BUT!!!…when that which is perfect is come (when we, Man, is perfected: spirit, soul, and then, at that time, body, which is when we are caught up),

1 John 3:2

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”

"51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord."

The change is that we will have our glorified body. There will be no unknown. In the spirit realm there is a knowing.

That perfect man will not need the gifts of the Spirit…THEN.

So, when we continue in 1 Corinthians 13:10 it says, “THEN”, not now, THEN that which in part (that that is revealed through the gifts, which is known in part, not of all, which 1 Corinthians 13:9 says), shall be done away. There will be no need for them then.

Again, Verse 8, these things will be done away with because we will be with the Lord and there will be nothing kept back, nothing hidden, all revealed.

Verse 12 Because NOW we see through a glass, darkly but THEN face to face NOW I know in part but THEN shall I know even as also I am known.

Now is not then. So, why are some of you clashing it all together as if there is a difference in time frame?

Some of you have said there is no reason for the gifts now, tongues in particular. Well, that is obviously subjective. I need to be edified, and I need my spirit to pray. I am not always with other members of the Body of Christ. Can a sister be edified still? You don’t need to understand how speaking in tongues edifies us in order for it to be true. The word says so. So, it is so. I would like to know if the word says something in addition to the scriptures I’ve mentioned that would give reason to believe differently.

Romans 3:1-4

**“**What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision

**2 **Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

**3 **For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

**4 **God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged. Until then, let God be true and every man a lie.”

God’s word is True with or without our believing.

We do know that we need the Power of the Spirit of God in order to always abound in his work. Even Jesus who God anointed with the Holy Spirit needed the Holy Spirit. He does inward work for us believers and he does outward work through us who believes. That is what the gifts are for.

It is as if we are telling the Holy Spirit that because of all the fakers, or what the well-known scholars or father before us have said, or because I haven’t witnessed certain gifts, or I don’t understand the need for certain gifts, that you don’t believe he manifest through them.

29

You mean something like this?

Real charismatic or is it “charismata?”

And here…

“Quakers and shakers” style.

J.

30

And my quest is mine, not yours @LadyK .

Scripture is painfully clear on this point, and it says it often enough that missing it requires effort.

The Bible repeatedly teaches that signs and miracles do not guarantee belief, repentance, or faith. Unbelief is not caused by lack of evidence but by hardened hearts.

First, explicit statements that miracles do not produce belief.

Luke 16:31
“If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.”

That is Jesus, not a skeptic, saying resurrection-level evidence still fails when Scripture is rejected.

John 12:37
“But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him.”

Not a lack of miracles. An abundance of them. Same result.

Second, Israel as the standing historical example.

Psalm 78:32
“For all this they sinned still, and believed not for his wondrous works.”

Psalm 78 is basically a long sermon on how miracles plus unbelief coexist very comfortably.

Numbers 14:11
“And the LORD said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them?”

God Himself makes the diagnosis. Signs were present. Faith was not.

Third, miracles provoking hostility rather than repentance.

John 11:47–48
“What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him…”

Notice the logic: the leaders do not deny the miracles. They respond by plotting murder.

John 12:10–11
“But the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus also to death; Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.”

A resurrected man walking around became a problem to eliminate, not proof to submit to.

Fourth, warnings about sign-seeking itself.

Matthew 12:39
“An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas.”

Jesus does not say signs are impossible. He says craving them is spiritually disordered.

John 2:23–25
“Many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them…”

There is a kind of belief that is miracle-based and still fundamentally unreliable.

Fifth, apostolic teaching that signs do not secure obedience.

1 Corinthians 1:22–23
“For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified…”

Paul explicitly contrasts signs with the gospel, not because signs are fake, but because they are insufficient.

2 Thessalonians 2:9–10
“…with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth…”

Signs can accompany deception just as easily as truth when love of truth is absent.

Sixth, the theological diagnosis beneath it all.

John 6:36
“But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.”

Romans 1:21
“Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God…”

Unbelief is moral and spiritual, not informational.

So the biblical pattern is consistent and frankly inconvenient for anyone who thinks miracles are the cure-all.

People can witness signs and still reject God.
People can explain away resurrection.
People can hate the miracle-worker precisely because the miracle worked.

Scripture never teaches that miracles create faith automatically. It teaches that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Signs may accompany truth, but they never replace submission to it.

Which means the uncomfortable conclusion is this: if someone does not believe Scripture, more miracles will not fix that. They will only raise the stakes of rejection.

And by “signs” I include the [Apostolic gifts.]

J.

31

The audacity of men. He “allowed” for the Spirit to manifest?

…and because it was unknown to HIM, then they okay, they had ceased, got it. It makes me wonder though, who God thinks he is to say different. :rofl:

This is like a vote, infinity to one and God is still God. It does not matter the amount of times people fail at something that determines the conclusion of a matter when there is just one time someone succeeds, huh. It doesn’t matter that these well-known people have never experienced or witnessed of any of the manifestations of the gifts when there are several that has.

32

I totally agree with this. I do not believe it has anything to do with whether they are true in the faith. What is real is the gifts is what I am saying. I am not for all the ridiculous things that I have seen in churches today. I thought it was clear my stand was only to regarding whether the gifts are manifested today or whether they are “done away”.

33

The audacity of unlearned women.

I said…even when he allowed for miracles, tongues remained tied to the apostolic foundation.

1 Corinthians 12:30
1 Corinthians 12:30[1]

The implied answer to every question in that verse is no.

Not all are apostles.
Not all are prophets.
Not all work miracles.
Not all speak with tongues.

Paul’s entire argument in the chapter depends on diversity, not uniformity. The body metaphor succumbs

if everyone has the same gift. Tongues are explicitly treated as one gift among many, not a universal marker of spirituality, regeneration, or maturity.

So if someone says, “All believers speak in tongues,” they are not arguing with you. They are arguing with Paul’s grammar.

The chapter is 1 Corinthians 12.
The verse is 1 Corinthians 12:30.
The answer is no.

Not even worth a reply.

J.

  1. Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? - KJV ↩︎

34

God hath set some (hous men etheto ho theos). See 1Co_12:18 for etheto ho theos. Note middle voice (for his own use). Paul begins as if he means to say hous men apostolous, hous de prophētas (some apostles, some prophets), but he changes the construction and has no hous de, but instead prōton, deuteron, epeita (first, second, then, etc.).
In the church (en tēi ekklēsiāi). The general sense of ekklēsia as in Mat_16:18 and later in Col_1:18, Col_1:24; Eph_5:23, Eph_5:32; Heb_12:23. See list also in Eph_4:11. See note on Mat_10:2 for apostolous, the official title given the twelve by Jesus, and claimed by Paul though not one of the twelve.

Prophets (prophētas). For-speakers for God and Christ. See the list of prophets and teachers in Act_13:1 with Barnabas first and Saul last. Prophets are needed today if men will let God’s Spirit use them, men moved to utter the deep things of God.

Teachers (didaskalous). Old word from didaskō, to teach. Used to the Baptist (Luk_3:12), to Jesus (Jhn_3:10; Jhn_13:13), and of Paul by himself along with apostolos (1Ti_2:7). It is a calamity when the preacher is no longer a teacher, but only an exhorter. See note on Eph_4:11.

Then miracles (epeita dunameis). Here a change is made from the concrete to the abstract. See the reverse in Rom_12:7. See these words (dunameis, iamētōn, glōssōn) in 1Co_12:9, 1Co_12:10 with glōssōn, last again.

But these two new terms (helps, governments).
Helps (antilēmpseis). Old word, from antilambanomai, to lay hold of. In lxx, common in papyri, here only in N.T. Probably refers to the work of the deacons, help rendered to the poor and the sick.

Governments (kubernēseis). Old word from kubernaō (cf. Kubernētēs in Act_27:11) like Latin gubernare, our govern. So a governing. Probably Paul has in mind bishops (episcopoi) or elders (presbuteroi), the outstanding leaders (hoi proistamenoi in 1Th_5:12; Rom_12:8; hoi hēgoumenoi in Act_15:22; Heb_13:7, Heb_13:17, Heb_13:24).

Curiously enough, these two offices (pastors and deacons) which are not named specifically are the two that survive today. See note on Php_1:1 for both officers.
A.T. Robertson

I can give you more resources, but I have a feeling that would be a waste of my time.

J.

35

You are quoting scripture to me of what I believe. I do not know where we differ as I think I’ve stated in one of the previous replies except that whether the gifts are done away with. But even when showing where it says this in the word you now call me an unlearned woman. Wow! I guess we all must agree with you to avoid such insults. I regret even bothering to talk it out. Good Day.

1 Like
36

Shalom.

Signing off.

J.

37

I have heard people speak in tongues, and often it comes from a service where they call on Jesus to baptize the people in the Holy Spirit. This is the call in which Jesus asked that the Holy Spirit fit the disciples to go out and minister with special gifts. The couple I know who baptized me in the Holy Spirit are a Dutch pastor and his wife. Following their baptism in the Holy Spirit, the pastor gained the ability to discern character and intimately understand a person’s heart and soul. However, the pastor’s wife received the gift of speaking in tongues, despite never having studied any languages other than those from Holland. However, under the influence of the Holy Spirit, she speaks fluent Afrikaans and some other languages. Some members of the congregation, hailing from these countries, found themselves deeply moved by the words, telling the pastor’s wife that Jesus would only know what you spoke to me; no one else would have.

Do spiritual gifts exist? Yes, Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, and so is the Holy Spirit. The gifts are abundantly available to those who ask to be endowed with the gifts that the Lord has bestowed upon his people.

Lots of people are generally skeptical of spiritual gifts, but I have always believed. More so after going through a Holy Spirit baptism and seeing some people pinned to the floor while others danced on the edges of the chairs like walking on clouds. It is like you get overwhelmed with great love; you feel like you’re standing in the presence of Jesus, and in my case, I felt an intense warming in my chest, which I still get today. It is like I had a switch in my soul, but I had never asked Jesus to turn it on. And he did now, and a great light shines there.

38

In the New Testament, the word translated “tongues” is overwhelmingly the Greek noun γλῶσσα (glōssa). Lexically and contextually, it means a spoken language, either the physical tongue or, by extension, a recognizable human language. There is no separate New Testament vocabulary for multiple “types” or “modes” of tongues.

Every relevant passage falls into one of three tightly related categories.

First, known human languages miraculously spoken.
This is unambiguous in Acts 2. Luke explicitly defines the tongues being spoken as identifiable ethnic languages understood by the hearers. Acts 2:6[1] and Acts 2:8[2] remove all ambiguity. Luke even lists the languages and regions, which would be unnecessary if the phenomenon were ecstatic or private.

Second, the same phenomenon discussed pastorally in Corinth.
In 1 Corinthians 12–14, Paul uses the same word γλῶσσα with no lexical shift and no redefinition. The issue in Corinth is not that a different kind of tongue has appeared, but that the same gift is being misused without interpretation and without love.

Paul explicitly assumes that tongues are languages capable of interpretation, otherwise his entire argument collapses. 1 Corinthians 14:10[3] and 1 Corinthians 14:27[4] show that intelligibility, not ecstasy, is the governing concern.

Third, hyperbolic or rhetorical language, not a new category.
The phrase “tongues of angels” in 1 Corinthians 13:1[5] is part of a rhetorical argument about love, not a technical description of a spiritual gift.

Paul uses exaggeration in the same verse structure when he speaks of having “all faith” and “all knowledge,” neither of which he intends literally. Treating this as a distinct angelic prayer language ignores genre and context.

What is notably absent from the New Testament is just as important as what is present.

There is no list of multiple tongue-types.
There is no classification system.
There is no private devotional tongue taught or commanded.
There is no passage where tongues are explicitly said to be unintelligible by nature.
There is no instance where tongues bypass the mind as a virtue.

What people often call “different kinds of tongues” comes not from the text, but from later theological systems reading modern experiences back into Scripture.

There is no program because there is no biblical dataset that supports the premise. There is one Greek term, one basic meaning, a small number of passages, and a very consistent expectation of intelligibility, interpretation, and edification, all grounded in God’s order rather than human excitement.

J.

  1. …every man heard them speak in his own language. - KJV ↩︎

  2. …how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? - KJV ↩︎

  3. There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. - KJV ↩︎

  4. If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. - KJV ↩︎

  5. Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass… - KJV ↩︎

39

And the audacity of men, was that directed at the ECF’ or me?

Anyway, here is…
The Troubling History of the Pentecostal and Charismatic Movement with Justin Peters.

Within historic Christianity, the standard of truth is not personal experience or later innovation, but the apostolic faith once delivered and preserved in Scripture. Any teaching that departs from the doctrine taught by Christ and His apostles cannot be considered an alternative expression of the same faith, but a deviation from it.

Scripture itself establishes this boundary. Galatians 1:8[1] leaves no room for parallel or competing gospels. Likewise, Jude 1:3[2] speaks of a singular, fixed deposit of faith, not multiple evolving versions.

For this reason, when a teaching departs from the apostolic witness preserved in Scripture, the issue is not a disagreement between equally valid camps.

One position remains within the orthodox faith, and the other, by definition, falls outside it. This is not a matter of charity versus uncharity, but of fidelity to the gospel itself.

Unity is found in truth, not in the suspension of doctrinal boundaries. The Church is called to love patiently and speak humbly, yet never to redefine the faith once delivered in order to accommodate error.

J.

  1. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. - KJV ↩︎

  2. …earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. - KJV ↩︎

40

That comment was directed to all of mankind actually. Also, the comment I stated about wondering just who does God think he is because what he has said is disregarded. I really was, well I am not giving up, I still am looking forward to talking to other believers up here on this forum hopefully, that are willing to take the time to walk with me and I with them through scripture to hear their perspective and to give my perspective as to what we believe the Spirit of God was showing us and enjoy doing so because I simply enjoy the word and love going before the greatest teacher there is, the Holy Spirit. I am not at all interested in talking with individuals that are very good at using all the vast amount of large words that holds simple meaning but do not have enough discipline to patiently see why one see or hears the word saying something different than themselves. And in this, I am refering to you and everyone else that seems so taken by philosopher and scholars, and those that have knowledge of history but MAY lack revelation of the word of God. Amazingly, I went from being a sister, a preacher according to you, to being a women that is unlearned, which Paul says is one that is an unbeliever only because I am hearing the scripture saying something differently than you and because I can’t deny what I have experience personally and privately, without the eyes of others around me having any knowledge of that experience when I was having it. The type of experience I had with you yesterday really does express one that is very confident in their own goods and not allowing real conversation between us. Were you careful in your judgment? Because with the same, you have just been judged. Or did you think you were hearing me when I kept saying that you weren’t saying anything that I disagreed with except that the scriptures when it came to the gifts ceasing. Giving the scriptures I was then unlearned, an unbeliever. I have to admit, I didn’t expect you to go there with me and thought you were going to go through those scriptures with me, explaining what you saw. But as I rejoiced over before, up here, I believe that my father has given me so many brothers and sisters (learned) who have patience and are willing and able to do this. You enjoy the rest of your day. I won’t bother you further.